Guild Wars 2

Pyroatheist.9031:

Also, I view this build as a dueling build, and that’s pretty much it. I would never roam with it over my immortal build, so I swap out skills for dueling.

by roam i meant spvp, being the 2nd or 3rd person to come help out on a point. your immortal build is very bad for tournament. wvw is mindless and many undergeared bad players who can’t take the heat in spvp.

@Pyroatheist: Thanks for your response and this guide. Though I hate how slow my Mesmer is in WvW, your guide has given me the motivation I needed to go back and revive my 1st and primary character.

tested out the build for a bit.
The Sigil of Hydromancy helps a lot in clashes…
But the build really needs more CR. Already an elementalist can put that much burning on you, that you die from the conditions. Any dedicated condition spammer will rip you a new one… And I ran friggin healing mantra, giving me 3 cleanses within ~12 seconds.
Might think about getting restorative mantras and throwing mantra of resolve into the mix…
It’s not that the build is weak or anything, but if I die from conditions after I killed 3 guys at once, it tells me, the build is slightly over the top in the damage department and might need some adjustments :P

Trying, if I can overcome the conditions with melandru runes for now.

Sprawl.3891:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Also, I view this build as a dueling build, and that’s pretty much it. I would never roam with it over my immortal build, so I swap out skills for dueling.

by roam i meant spvp, being the 2nd or 3rd person to come help out on a point. your immortal build is very bad for tournament. wvw is mindless and many undergeared bad players who can’t take the heat in spvp.

By roaming I was referring to wvw roaming, which this build is rather less effective at.

As far as tournaments go, the immortal build is rather effective at close point defense, as it generally take 2-3 people to actually push me off of a point, and it takes them at least 20-30 seconds to do it.

Melandru runes actually work for me in spvp. Don’t have a real mezz toon, so spvp only.

By the way, my very first thought when playing this build and raking in the first kills:
“This is, what Catmaster Rangers want to be when they are all grown up.”
Really, every ranger who tried to sacrifice every last bit of utility in order to squeeze a little bit more damage out of his Jaguar is gonna cry when he sees, how effortless Mesmers can put out these numbers.
Of course, the ranger will probably be more tanky than the mezz :P

@Pyroatheist:

I’ve tried this build of yours now for the last two days and so far, I’d have to admit that it’s pretty darn impressive once you get used to it. My most difficult class to defeat as a D/D Ele (SB/GS Ranger) seams to just melt under this kind of pressure. I still have lots to learn but so far, it’s really been fun.

Just wondering though, is there ANYTHING I can do to make my Mesmer not so darn slow in WvW roaming? That is the one thing I miss about my Ele.

FinalPatriot.8034:

@Pyroatheist:

I’ve tried this build of yours now for the last two days and so far, I’d have to admit that it’s pretty darn impressive once you get used to it. My most difficult class to defeat as a D/D Ele (SB/GS Ranger) seams to just melt under this kind of pressure. I still have lots to learn but so far, it’s really been fun.

Just wondering though, is there ANYTHING I can do to make my Mesmer not so darn slow in WvW roaming? That is the one thing I miss about my Ele.

Always have a focus in your inventory. Swap that sucker in constantly to get the temporal curtain speed boost. If you’re really feeling into it, trait the focus just before you swap it in for the cooldown reduction, then untrait it as you swap it out.

You can also use centaur runes or runes of air for the speed boost on healing. For these, just get an endless tonic of some kind, and use your normal keybind to hit the healing skill while in the tonic, then exit the tonic. This will proc the on-heal effect of the runes without wasting your heal skill.

Pyro, ive been listening to you for awhile, im a mesmer from the Tarnished Coast server. Hidden Sin [ONI] is my guild, we duel alot. I know the ultimate weakness to this build. It is blocking the summoning at all. On a mesmer this is far too easy to achieve, making mesvmes very easy for the more experienced player. blurred frenzy at the start of a summon and then summon on top of them. They do not get the summon off. Blinds as well, anything to stop that summoning. if you can lose LoS and summon on them in stealth, you can totally counter this build. Please reply im eager to hear your response. Ive dueled alot of mesmers, very very good mesmers. Ive yet to lose to one continuously. Once i find out the spec after the first fight, that is if i lose, i win after.If you know mes, very easy to counter.

Tek.4083:

blurred frenzy at the start of a summon and then summon on top of them. They do not get the summon off. Blinds as well, anything to stop that summoning. if you can lose LoS and summon on them in stealth, you can totally counter this build.

I’m not pyro but lets duel soon? Im at kaineng.

@Thorment
I am always down to duel. My guild usually roams your borderlands. and always behind the windmill, i wouldnt be surprised if you have ever dueled, that you havent already dueled me. Im down though, i am on 4:30 EST till O.o bed? xD Tek Pulse. Add me up buddy.

You’re absolutely right. That being said, that sort of play is really high level, and you’ll need to expect high level play in return.

When I do a mirror duel, I’ll take mantra of distraction. This allows me to interrupt the first few casts and get the upper hand, followed by blurred frenzy for an additional cast block. When I’m fighting someone like a Mesmer or a pistol offhand thief though, I’m extremely aware of the blind/invuln potential, and I’m very good at interrupting the cast.

So while extremely skillful play can stop the build for a bit, it can of course be countered by equally skillful play.

We should duel. I am very curious of your actual skill as a mesmer. Maybe we could teach eachother a few things. If learned anything from playing guitar, you always learn alot when you play with someone better than you. It could go both ways. haha

Just FYI, Aegis doesn’t block the phantasm from summoning. I open with a sword phant, so when facing a guardian I make sure to hit them once with something before I summon so that my swordsman’s first strike isn’t wasted.

Guardians have blinds and blocks galore. Many thieves are traited to blind on stealth, so I have to be careful.

Here’s another tip. If you just decoy at the start, the enemy will see you “flicker” for a moment. He’ll know that you decoyed. What you need is a distraction to prevent him from seeing that.

So I decoy myself immediately following the first phantasm summon. This way, the swordsman comes out and that new piece of visual information covers the "minor’ info that you vanished for a split second. So your opponent will happily lock onto your clone thinking its you. Since it’s the start of the fight, both you and the clone will have full health so it’s not easy to tell you apart.

The signet can give you away though. As can finishers etc. But as long as you decoy at the start and cover it with a distraction, hopefully your opponent won’t notice.

Having a few seconds of extra free time at the start of the fight gives you a huge advantage as you pull your duelist out and set up for a blurred frenzy when they don’t expect it. If you’re fast you can do all that before they even realize that the clone they locked on to isn’t you.

Regular rotation from there on. I try and keep my distance from guardians so as to not be affected by their irritating blinds.

you dont need to invis when he invis, in fact i wouldnt do it, i would know he is summoning in stealth. and if he isnt, blurred frenzy is a failsafe on a2 sec blurr on his 3 second invs. once he pops out, then i would go invs, and after that the tables would be turned in my favor. Beating a mesmer is all about the start of the fight, what happens at that point decides the match for the most part. this is my experience mes v mes

i read that completely wrong, guardian is all about pressure and burst. I find that remove boons on shatter, wipe guardians. that protection is just too much.

That trait though, i guess is unrelated, since its not in his build. If he has no spike, the guard will never die. When i say this, i keep skilled players in mind, If you have stomped a guardian, thats really awesome,but i have never seen a phant build ever stomp a good guard.

Tek.4083:

That trait though, i guess is unrelated, since its not in his build. If he has no spike, the guard will never die. When i say this, i keep skilled players in mind, If you have stomped a guardian, thats really awesome,but i have never seen a phant build ever stomp a good guard.

The swordsman hit very VERY hard. The guardian will die, especially since it can’t really kill the swordsmen, just try to bunker up. It might take a little while, but it will die.

Tek.4083:

That trait though, i guess is unrelated, since its not in his build. If he has no spike, the guard will never die. When i say this, i keep skilled players in mind, If you have stomped a guardian, thats really awesome,but i have never seen a phant build ever stomp a good guard.

Even bunker guardians die to a phant build. No way they will have enough heals/protection to outlast the damage. They’ll have some blocks stored up initially but once those cooldowns go, they have nothing.

It may take a while, but they’ll go down alright.

My orginal build was a 10/20/0/30/10 build. I had the same sorta concept except i am full zerker, using utilities and a fast hand to mitigate attacks. There is one guardian i know in particular, goes by the name of Aynkou. Ive seen him fight again and again against phant mes, shatter mes. The relatiation isnt doing much, and he balls them up for a big hammer burst. Dont always expect your phantasms to live, and dont expect them not to be in your face. Ive had to pull out ALL the kiting techniques when i fought a guardian, his name was Holypickle. The tankiest i think a guard can get. s/s staff. I am a firm belieber< :P in skill effecting the build you play, even if you are at a disadvantage. I consider myself an excellent mesmer, and this is a fight that i wont lose, but also, will never win. Phant wise.

Now, if you’re talking tPvP, they’ll probably last long enough for help to arrive, but that really depends on the guardian. A lot of guardians will melt to this build because they focus on me, instead of realizing that my phantasms are doing most of the damage.

I don’t think, this build can kill a bunker guardian.
If we are talking spvp/tpvp tho, he will either have to abandon his point at some point or die. But whether he died for the sake of keeping you occupied for a couple more seconds would be his choice.
These phantasms really crit around 4k damage against solid targets(don’t ask, what they do to glass canons, just don’t… It was the quickest facemelt, I’ve seen in my life…) even without a 100 percent glass build.
Now if only phantasmal haste worked properly

I am talking wvw, a Phant build in tpvp, can beat any class, any bunker. I do wvw duels, it adds more flexibility and more min max as well.

@Tek: Swordsman are extremely difficult to ball up properly due to how they attack. Duelists are similar. You really have to abuse Los to get them to ball up, and that can be difficult.

The thing about guardians is that they’re slow and obvious. Nothing about their attacks is subtle, especially hammer. Kiting a guardian is really really easy. Blink works great of course, but you can also use leap/swap to either immobilize, or wait for them to run away from the clone and then swap behind them.

A sword/shield staff guardian has pretty much no range, and the autoattack on the staff is crazy for proccing retal damage (aoe low damage hits). That sort of fight shouldn’t be that difficult, at least from a survival standpoint.

@Pyro Ive played 1200 hours of mesmer, I know what the phantasms can do, and the gs pull on the phants will kill them. I have no idea what level of skill the guardians you were facing, I have met 3 good guards in my entire Mesmer Career. Yes they are easy to kite, but you have no blinks. And in battle, GS/hammer have ALOT of mobility. Being this a duel there will be no running. I know you also love your toughness, meaning you are missing out on burst. Like i said before this build murders in tpvp 1v1 and even 1vmany. I dont remember your server Pyro, but i know our servers have fought before, i just dont remember the specific server. I have never seen you at a duel, i am extremely curious of your skills as a mesmer. Do you accept tpvp duels? if you know something i dont, i wanna learn. as for the guardians you would have to face anykou. We are TC. As for me i would love to duel you,Anyone, anytime. As a learning experience on both parts. I wanna see what you say in action.

Tek.4083:

@Pyro Ive played 1200 hours of mesmer, I know what the phantasms can do, and the gs pull on the phants will kill them. I have no idea what level of skill the guardians you were facing, I have met 3 good guards in my entire Mesmer Career. Yes they are easy to kite, but you have no blinks. And in battle, GS/hammer have ALOT of mobility. Being this a duel there will be no running. I know you also love your toughness, meaning you are missing out on burst. Like i said before this build murders in tpvp 1v1 and even 1vmany. I dont remember your server Pyro, but i know our servers have fought before, i just dont remember the specific server. I have never seen you at a duel, i am extremely curious of your skills as a mesmer. Do you accept tpvp duels? if you know something i dont, i wanna learn. as for the guardians you would have to face anykou. We are TC. As for me i would love to duel you,Anyone, anytime. As a learning experience on both parts. I wanna see what you say in action.

This is not a kitten waving contest. Let’s keep the rhetoric down instead of issuing personal challenges and saying “I’m awesome and know better”.

Incidentally, this build doesn’t have toughness so you may be referring to another one.

We are talking about skill being a counter to this build. At least i am. Phant mesmer is very easy to counter. In his original post he stated he wanted a counter to this build. I am talking about that counter. As far as im concerned i wasnt waving how awesome i am, in a way to flaunt, but i do duel often. I am taking my experience to better educated others using this build. I am sorry if you saw this as an ego boost to myself. Words can only express so much. I am sorry

bhagwad.4281:

Tek.4083:

@Pyro Ive played 1200 hours of mesmer, I know what the phantasms can do, and the gs pull on the phants will kill them. I have no idea what level of skill the guardians you were facing, I have met 3 good guards in my entire Mesmer Career. Yes they are easy to kite, but you have no blinks. And in battle, GS/hammer have ALOT of mobility. Being this a duel there will be no running. I know you also love your toughness, meaning you are missing out on burst. Like i said before this build murders in tpvp 1v1 and even 1vmany. I dont remember your server Pyro, but i know our servers have fought before, i just dont remember the specific server. I have never seen you at a duel, i am extremely curious of your skills as a mesmer. Do you accept tpvp duels? if you know something i dont, i wanna learn. as for the guardians you would have to face anykou. We are TC. As for me i would love to duel you,Anyone, anytime. As a learning experience on both parts. I wanna see what you say in action.

This is not a kitten waving contest. Let’s keep the rhetoric down instead of issuing personal challenges and saying “I’m awesome and know better”.

Incidentally, this build doesn’t have toughness so you may be referring to another one.

I didn’t get any inclination of Tek calling out Pyro by saying “i’m better than you and will prove it in a duel”. What Tek is essentially stating is that he’s just a bit skeptical and it would be nice to see how Pyro utilizes his builds in battle.

I’d like to see it myself as well. I appreciate Pyro and all the information he has given. But I do have to agree with Tek about some of the stuff he has stated

On another note, I found that a GS phantasm mesmer can be a hard counter to a mesmer that uses sc/sw with sw/p

Expansive.3716:

On another note, I found that a GS phantasm mesmer can be a hard counter to a mesmer that uses sc/sw with sw/p

This.
So much this.

For hot-join PvP, shatter build with some gear tweaks and GS/Staff is SO much fun!

@Tek: I noticed that you mentioned something about having no blinks. What utilities do you usually run with this build? I always have blink and decoy, and then generally the signet though I’ll swap that out as per my opponent. You can also use illusionary swap as a blink. Since the clone generally won’t actually stay on your target, you can wait for it to get distanced, and then swap, generally allowing a quick blink (stunbreak as well) to a location usually behind your target.

You are right about the greatsword pull. It works wonders for grouping the phantasms. The problem is that most guardians will follow that with a whirling wrath, which is a really odd attack. On my immortal build, I’ll instakill guardians from 80% hp when the use whirling wrath just from retaliation alone. It won’t hurt quite as bad in this build, but it’s still dangerous. Now, if he swapped to hammer after the gs pull, then you’d have a good combo.

As far as gs mesmers…I swap to the daze mantra for any Mesmer using a greatsword (indicating heavy phantasm damage). What this allows me to do is get out both of my phantasms before they get off their first set of attacks, giving me an extremely strong opening position.

Also, I’m on Dragonbrand. We will most likely end up in T2 in around 2 weeks, but I’m quite happy to demonstrate any of my builds in spvp before then.

@Pyro When i first started i ran with the exact same utilities, but i ran s/p staff.
I noticed that after awhile i would almost be wide open when i was through with my staff switched to sword/pistol and then went through your rotation as a phant, stun( to prevent any interrupting of the summon, the summoning, leap immob, blurred frenzy, jump back decoy, switch to staff, chaos storm, blink in that, summon, and then play defensively after that. All within about 5 seconds. After you play mes a bit, this isnt hard at all.
I switched out the signet for veil and used it as a shadow refuge for awhile, and then noticed that if i was caught, i would be totally screwed. So i switched to s/s staff. Now i have all weapons on me at all times. Switching traits all the time. but this being my absolute favorite and the others being situational in my play style. I learned to stay totally hidden, and use shatters not only as damage but to totally erase the enemies eye on where the clones stood. dazing the screen as i set up.

as for the ret, ive never seen it do that much damage, but knowing my phants had that i would take advantage and asthey whirled shattered before they would die. it would do about 20% health and then they would restore.

The reason i say phant mes cant beat a good guard is becuase of the experiences i had. The amount of passive heals they have, the invuln, blocking, mobility. And in your build in particular you have the stun breaking leap which is great, unless you are knocked down, then it just moves you, and you have blink. One requiring a target and the other on a 30 sec recharge. Alot happens in 30 seconds. soo we look at leap. The leap brings you towards your target, and even if you waited, you are still pretty close to the enemy.

Is there something i am missing. My build was a shantasm, but i only shattered to heal, and to reset my location. Mass invs when the leap guy was up and then switching place in stealth. Standing still as if we never changed. I have some tricks.

Ive also played shatter as well, and applying those HUGE spikes of pressure and boon rip,along with 25% vuln with confusion, forces the enemy to panic and in some terms making them play defensively, allowing you to summon as they run. and in that time letting cooldowns reset. where phantasm requires alot of kiting, blocking, invs. We are limited i have found.

This being the reason i brought veil.

sorry i rant but the gist is. i think your build has a limitation in kiting. without staff as well, and the aegis you would give your phants, and yourself. but even with that the damage is slow because of the warlock. xD i am all over the place. Do you get what im trying to get at?

@Tek: The way whirling wrath works is that it is a large number (7 I think) of separate aoe attacks, each of which doesn’t do a ton of damage, and each of which has a separate aoe cap. This means that each one can hit 5 targets, or with the phantasms, 3 targets. So, that’s 3 hits of retaliation return per hit at 7 hits, which is 21 total from whirling wrath.

Now, in my immortal build, I also have retal, and I have a defender. That adds up to around 7 hits of retaliation per whirling wrath hit, at 7 hits, and that’s what instakills them, since retal ignores all damage mitigation.

that and you can always shatter your phantasms just before they die to the guardian, if he pulls them in. It won’t do much(just don’t have any shatter traits) but it’s better than having them just die.

@pyro , you havent probably fought trig as p/d as he hasnt been running it for about 2 months now, but hes the best p/d out there by far. Also, I designed this build to crack bunkers and it has never failed me vs. any bunker type build, but I disagree with some of your changes. Honestly, i also don’t really appreciate seeing my build on the front page of the mes forums for a week. However, this build does do great for roaming, I used to play with AoN and it worked great, ive hit up to 10k blurred frenzies in the middle of groups with might stacks.

Edit. Anyone who disagrees this build works against bunker eles can check out my duels vs Bitcloud1 on his youtube page

Cube.4905:

@pyro , you havent probably fought trig as p/d as he hasnt been running it for about 2 months now, but hes the best p/d out there by far. Also, I designed this build to crack bunkers and it has never failed me vs. any bunker type build, but I disagree with some of your changes. Honestly, i also don’t really appreciate seeing my build on the front page of the mes forums for a week.

The duel was in sPvP fwiw. I can’t actually remember the name, was just another thief from my perspective, but I seem to remember something about trigger in it.

As far as the build goes…no secrets here in the Mesmer forums.

No secrets especially considering the number of people who replied to this thread saying they run the same or a very similar build lol, sorry Cube you’re not special :P

Cube.4905:

@pyro , you havent probably fought trig as p/d as he hasnt been running it for about 2 months now, but hes the best p/d out there by far. Also, I designed this build to crack bunkers and it has never failed me vs. any bunker type build, but I disagree with some of your changes. Honestly, i also don’t really appreciate seeing my build on the front page of the mes forums for a week. However, this build does do great for roaming, I used to play with AoN and it worked great, ive hit up to 10k blurred frenzies in the middle of groups with might stacks.

Edit. Anyone who disagrees this build works against bunker eles can check out my duels vs Bitcloud1 on his youtube page

If he made changes to it, then it’s not your build. I’ve been using a similar trait setup for weeks now. Does that mean he copied my build? No. Does he have a modified version or a similar build? Yes.

You can only do so much with 70 trait points.

@wookie: Pretty sure that comment referred to “spilling the beans” as it were =P.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@wookie: Pretty sure that comment referred to “spilling the beans” as it were =P.

Well, you better stop spilling those beans bro…

Kazhiel.8194:

No secrets especially considering the number of people who replied to this thread saying they run the same or a very similar build lol, sorry Cube you’re not special :P

I’m sure there are other people running it derpstorm, I’ve even run into some that were very similar, but nobody posted it on the front page of mes forums. I’m not even sure why im bumping this post FML

Cube.4905:

Kazhiel.8194:

No secrets especially considering the number of people who replied to this thread saying they run the same or a very similar build lol, sorry Cube you’re not special :P

I’m sure there are other people running it derpstorm, I’ve even run into some that were very similar, but nobody posted it on the front page of mes forums. I’m not even sure why im bumping this post FML

My friend, that ship sailed 10 days ago. This thread currently has slightly over 6800 views, and has been on the front page of the forums continually since I created it.

Besides, you should know that it’s not the build that makes you special, it’s how you play it. I could have sat on my immortal build for months, and it’s unlikely other people would have discovered it, as it’s such a strange compilation of mesmer abilities. I thought it would be fun to share an awesome build with the community, and so I did. I’m not insecure in thinking that someone’s gonna come along and do it better than me. As a matter of fact, without making that thread, I wouldn’t have modified it (as per someone’s suggestion) to use the -condition duration gear/food, which really took it from great build to stupidly op.

Hi Pyro,

I’ve been experimenting a lot with sets with two offhand weapons after I first tried Gaiawolf’s Lone Mesmer build and this one is indeed incredible powerful 1:1.
Backstab Thiefs usually die from the two blocks and a phantasm hit. Makes me cry though when I play my Warrior alt because his blocks are sooooo weak in damage….

If I join a zerg I will swap one set for greatsword though

Also again thanks to you and Gaiawolf for pointing out that the scepter is a really decent weapon in a power build. Now if we only had a good mainhand condition weapon beside Staff…

@Ferawyn: Glad to hear you’re liking it.

As far as the scepter goes though, I don’t really think it works very well in most power builds. In this build, I would use the scepter if it only had one skill, the block. The autoattack is really slow and clunky, and the same can be said for confusing images…

@Pyroatheist:

After about 5 days of using your build, I’ve found that it is just amazing! For large groups in WvW I switched out the scepter for the GS as I really needed more offensive power. I even played around with the GS – S/P in PvP and though it’s a bit tricky in some cases, overall it’s really nasty. I have to admit, before your post, I hadn’t played my Mesmer in months and now it’s been so much fun that she’s gone back to being the only character I play now.

Thanks!

Oh, and can you PLEASE post some vids of how you play the build? I’d really like to learn more.

I was using this build yesterday in tPvP and felt the need for something tougher. Switched back to your immortal mesmer for that

This is good for dueling, not good for holding points since I prefer to keep a distance with this one and let my phantasms do the heavy lifting.

bhagwad.4281:

I was using this build yesterday in tPvP and felt the need for something tougher. Switched back to your immortal mesmer for that

This is good for dueling, not good for holding points since I prefer to keep a distance with this one and let my phantasms do the heavy lifting.

Yeah, it’s certainly not a sturdy as the immortal build. In tPvP I usually use it to roam a bit, attack the far point, or help out at mid.

Hi Pyro, my question is what stats do phantasms inherit from yourself? I have a set of zerker’s but I think I read somewhere they don’t inherit crit dmg so would knights be a better set for this build for the added defense?

zuroism.2471:

Hi Pyro, my question is what stats do phantasms inherit from yourself? I have a set of zerker’s but I think I read somewhere they don’t inherit crit dmg so would knights be a better set for this build for the added defense?

They inherit all your stats, most certainly crit damage. They don’t inherit vitality in the same way though. I’m pretty sure they get it on a vastly reduced basis.

Thanks! I will just stick to the zerker then :P

I use sigil of generosity with this build btw