Guild Wars 2

Pyroatheist.9031:

@MrSilver: Phantasms inherit your basic stats with the exception of vitality.

This means they inherit your precision, but not your crit chance. Fury on the Mesmer will have no effect on the phantasm, but something boosting precision will transfer.

Likewise, phantasms have their own secondary stats, but not primary. Might on the Mesmer will increase phantasm damage, but might on the phantasm does nothing, and fury on the phantasm will increase its critical chance.

Thank you…

I assume that Phantasmal Fury (II Trait Dueling) adds 20% to the inherited precision from the accumulated stats derived from your armor, runes, and weapon, excluding 5% precision from the weapon sigil.

It adds 20% Crit straight up on top of whatever crit chance they have inherited from your precision (excluding 5% weapon sigil). Phantasms also don’t inherit Crit damage like that from Scholar or Rage runes.

@MrSilver: The weapon sigil adds 5% critical chance. Not precision. Now, the stacking perception sigil actually increases your precision, so that boost will transfer.

@Xavi: Make sure you keep your terminology accurate.

Phantasms inherit Critical Damage. The Scholar rune 6 piece bonus is not critical damage, but flat damage, simply a straight % increase to damage. Phantasms will not inherit that bonus. As for the Rage runes bonus, phantasms don’t have your runes. They inherit only the stats the runes provide, so they of course won’t get the extra 5% critical damage while under the effects of fury.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@MrSilver: The weapon sigil adds 5% critical chance. Not precision. Now, the stacking perception sigil actually increases your precision, so that boost will transfer.

@Xavi: Make sure you keep your terminology accurate.

Phantasms inherit Critical Damage. The Scholar rune 6 piece bonus is not critical damage, but flat damage, simply a straight % increase to damage. Phantasms will not inherit that bonus. As for the Rage runes bonus, phantasms don’t have your runes. They inherit only the stats the runes provide, so they of course won’t get the extra 5% critical damage while under the effects of fury.

Thanks again.

So I assume that phantasms do benefit from the crit damage % increases from divinity, and traveler runes, as well as from orbs applied to armor.

MrSilver.5269:

Pyroatheist.9031:

@MrSilver: The weapon sigil adds 5% critical chance. Not precision. Now, the stacking perception sigil actually increases your precision, so that boost will transfer.

@Xavi: Make sure you keep your terminology accurate.

Phantasms inherit Critical Damage. The Scholar rune 6 piece bonus is not critical damage, but flat damage, simply a straight % increase to damage. Phantasms will not inherit that bonus. As for the Rage runes bonus, phantasms don’t have your runes. They inherit only the stats the runes provide, so they of course won’t get the extra 5% critical damage while under the effects of fury.

Thanks again.

So I assume that phantasms do benefit from the crit damage % increases from divinity, and traveler runes, as well as from orbs applied to armor.

That’s correct.

THANK YOU Pyro for this build and your AMAZING explanations, and answers to questions.

I am LOVING the build.

And YES, caps lock is cruise control for cool.

Pyro,

Another question. Any disadvantage in going sword/sword and scepter/pistol?

MrSilver.5269:

Pyro,

Another question. Any disadvantage in going sword/sword and scepter/pistol?

Hey,

None at all. For whatever reason I sorta like having the 2 blocks on the one weaponset, and then swapping over to have blurred frenzy, but that’s absolutely just personal preference.

Pyroatheist.9031:

MrSilver.5269:

Pyro,

Another question. Any disadvantage in going sword/sword and scepter/pistol?

Hey,

None at all. For whatever reason I sorta like having the 2 blocks on the one weaponset, and then swapping over to have blurred frenzy, but that’s absolutely just personal preference.

Thanks!!!!

Pyroatheist.9031:

MrSilver.5269:

Pyro,

Another question. Any disadvantage in going sword/sword and scepter/pistol?

Hey,

None at all. For whatever reason I sorta like having the 2 blocks on the one weaponset, and then swapping over to have blurred frenzy, but that’s absolutely just personal preference.

I found a small disadvantage. If you go scepter/pistol you will lose +50 precision from blade training.

Now that Illusionist’s Celerity has been moved to a master trait, how about we take out 15 points from elsewhere (10 from Dueling and 5 from inspiration) and use the points to get that trait?

bhagwad.4281:

Now that Illusionist’s Celerity has been moved to a master trait, how about we take out 15 points from elsewhere (10 from Dueling and 5 from inspiration) and use the points to get that trait?

Yeah, I’ve been considering it. I haven’t had enough time to really test it out though, but when I get the chance I will.

pyro has this build been updated to a new url or is it still the original link on page 1?

Thanks!

bhagwad.4281:

Now that Illusionist’s Celerity has been moved to a master trait, how about we take out 15 points from elsewhere (10 from Dueling and 5 from inspiration) and use the points to get that trait?

The build got like 3 unneeded traits in its current form, which are candidates. Sadly, they are covered by more or less vital traits.
Candidates for removal:

Dueling:
Confusing Combatants, covered by Blade Training

Inspiration:
Compounding Celerity, which was taken only to spend those last 5 points anyway.
Mender’s Purity(!), as the new heal will not be as spammable. This, however, is covered by phantasmal Strength.

Personally, I’d remove 15 from inspiration. The sword training does make a difference by lowering some defensive cooldowns aswell as the cd of iswordsman.

Comparison:
version 1(10 from duel, 5 from inspiration):
+15% phant damage
remove condi on heal
move faster for each illusion
+100 vit, +100 healing

version 2(15 from inspiration):
20% sword skill reduction
+150 precision(8% crit chance)
+10% crit damage
confusion on illusion death

comparison, matching offense against offense, defense against defense and junk against junk:
15% illusion damage vs 150 precision, 10% crit damage
condi remove, 100 vit, 100 heal vs 20% sword skill reduction.
move speed per illu vs confusion on illu death.

This one depends on your gear. If you go full berserker, having the points in inspiration will probably yield more raw damage, but once you start mixing in some other gear, like celestial or soldiers pieces, the precision and crit from duels will probably pull ahead.

@naphack: I’m not entirely sure what you’re saying.

Confusing Combatants: This is a minor…it has no place in my build, and is only taken because I want 3 major traits in dueling.

Compounding Celerity: Yeah, these last 5 points are useless, agreed

Mender’s Purity: What? Firstly, I’m not generally even using the new heal in this build, and secondly, it still provides a fantastic source of condition removal when necessary. I also have no idea what you mean by it being covered by phantasmal strength.

Removing 15 points from inspiration would be an enormous mistake.

naphack.9346:

bhagwad.4281:

Now that Illusionist’s Celerity has been moved to a master trait, how about we take out 15 points from elsewhere (10 from Dueling and 5 from inspiration) and use the points to get that trait?

The build got like 3 unneeded traits in its current form, which are candidates. Sadly, they are covered by more or less vital traits.
Candidates for removal:

Dueling:
Confusing Combatants, covered by Blade Training

Inspiration:
Compounding Celerity, which was taken only to spend those last 5 points anyway.
Mender’s Purity(!), as the new heal will not be as spammable. This, however, is covered by phantasmal Strength.

Personally, I’d remove 15 from inspiration. The sword training does make a difference by lowering some defensive cooldowns aswell as the cd of iswordsman.

Comparison:
version 1(10 from duel, 5 from inspiration):
+15% phant damage
remove condi on heal
move faster for each illusion
+100 vit, +100 healing

version 2(15 from inspiration):
20% sword skill reduction
+150 precision(8% crit chance)
+10% crit damage
confusion on illusion death

comparison, matching offense against offense, defense against defense and junk against junk:
15% illusion damage vs 150 precision, 10% crit damage
condi remove, 100 vit, 100 heal vs 20% sword skill reduction.
move speed per illu vs confusion on illu death.

This one depends on your gear. If you go full berserker, having the points in inspiration will probably yield more raw damage, but once you start mixing in some other gear, like celestial or soldiers pieces, the precision and crit from duels will probably pull ahead.

Unfortunately I’m not ready to give up Mender’s purity. I’m not using the new signet heal and the condition removal is too good to pass up. Taking out 15 from inspiration will also reduce my phantasm health as well as lower damage…too much sacrifice IMHO.

Another benefit of taking IC though is that we can get Compounding Power for a possible 9% increase in damage for three illusions!

Excellent build, I use it all the time!

So, I’m trying this build for roaming and it seens very good so far, but I feel that the toughness is pretty low. My status with buffs are:

power: 2065, precision: 1900, toughness: 1368, vitality: 1772, critical damage: 86%

Armor all exotic berserker but the chest which is knight’s.

Trinkets all exotic: cavalier’s amulet, rings and one accessory. One accessory and back are soldier’s.

Weapons are all exotic berserkers.

So, the low toughness is expected? The equipments are OK? Should I change something? Remember, I’m using it for WvW only, nothing else. I want it to be good at solo roaming and small group fights, don’t care about zergs. Thanks!

yanniell.1236:

So, I’m trying this build for roaming and it seens very good so far, but I feel that the toughness is pretty low. My status with buffs are:

power: 2065, precision: 1900, toughness: 1368, vitality: 1772, critical damage: 86%

Armor all exotic berserker but the chest which is knight’s.

Trinkets all exotic: cavalier’s amulet, rings and one accessory. One accessory and back are soldier’s.

Weapons are all exotic berserkers.

So, the low toughness is expected? The equipments are OK? Should I change something? Remember, I’m using it for WvW only, nothing else. I want it to be good at solo roaming and small group fights, don’t care about zergs. Thanks!

Yeah, low toughness is expected, this is a very glassy build. Your defense comes more from damage avoidance and the distraction of hard-hitting phantasms than from toughness. I recommend the cavalier’s trinkets simply to bring the toughness up just a bit, giving you a little leeway on absorbing the stray hit here and there.

Pyroatheist.9031:

I have yet to find a counter to this build. If anyone manages to find one, please tell me, because this build is a massive pita to encounter when I’m not the one running it.

Update

I built and engineer that roflstomps anyone 1v1 including and especially this and any mesmer build.

Gods Knight.4936:

Pyroatheist.9031:

I have yet to find a counter to this build. If anyone manages to find one, please tell me, because this build is a massive pita to encounter when I’m not the one running it.

Update

I built and engineer that roflstomps anyone 1v1 including and especially this and any mesmer build.

I sense a duel coming …

Gods Knight.4936:

Pyroatheist.9031:

I have yet to find a counter to this build. If anyone manages to find one, please tell me, because this build is a massive pita to encounter when I’m not the one running it.

Update

I built and engineer that roflstomps anyone 1v1 including and especially this and any mesmer build.

Toss me a pm ingame, I’ll believe it when I see it.

I’d love to duel you with my bunker engi Pyro. Not because I’m making any claim about beating you, mind, just because I want to practice with it.

Qaelyn.7612:

I’d love to duel you with my bunker engi Pyro. Not because I’m making any claim about beating you, mind, just because I want to practice with it.

As always, just toss me a PM.

Well, that went pretty quick. The engineer build that roflstomps anything turned out to be a turret heavy rifle based power build. It didn’t do too well. The guy (as I had predicted) was quite a sore loser, and decided to degenerate into accusations such as ‘mesmer is for no brainer button mashing’. weeeeeeee

Edit: Aaaaaaaand he just claimed playing a warrior takes more skill than playing a mesmer. See second screenshot.

First mesmer to beat me on that grats, I wont make excuses but most mesmers don’t. Just goes to show that it is still extremely OP yet they nerf warriors lol.

Claiming you are all that by playing an OP fotm though is hardly classy.

Edit: and yes warrior does take much more skill, it requires you actually be good. Not have a fotm crutch card. You should learn to read better, perhaps you can then try harder classes instead of bragging about abusing OP ones.

gf

Mesmers aren’t OP. Pyro is good.

And I only hit 80 on my engineer last week and even I know that turrets.. well… let’s just say they don’t have a good reputation.

And you challenged him, and said you could beat any mesmer, so why all the whining? Also, this isn’t a “fotm”, it’s from last April.

Next?

Qaelyn.7612:

Also, this isn’t a “fotm”, it’s from last April.

I suppose he didn’t say which month it was the flavor of…

looks like some just ate a slice of humble pie and didn’t like the taste..

fyi this is a very unique build that is certainly not the flavor of any month and moreover, not everyone can pull it off, i know..i tried.

How is this compared to the power PU build that is becoming very popular?

Carpboy.7145:

How is this compared to the power PU build that is becoming very popular?

More offense, less passive defense. Much more of an emphasis on active defense: blocks, dodging, evades.

Gods Knight.4936:

First mesmer to beat me on that grats, I wont make excuses but most mesmers don’t. Just goes to show that it is still extremely OP yet they nerf warriors lol.

Claiming you are all that by playing an OP fotm though is hardly classy.

Edit: and yes warrior does take much more skill, it requires you actually be good. Not have a fotm crutch card. You should learn to read better, perhaps you can then try harder classes instead of bragging about abusing OP ones.

gf

I just about spat out my tea.

You challenged Pyro, claiming to have an OP build that stomps everyone and you got stomped. Don’t come back here crying because you lost. You are the definition of a sore loser, and it doesn’t surprise me at all that you play a warrior (and think that it requires more skill than a Mesmer).

Thanks for the good laugh, though.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Qaelyn.7612:

I’d love to duel you with my bunker engi Pyro. Not because I’m making any claim about beating you, mind, just because I want to practice with it.

As always, just toss me a PM.

For those keeping score, he did beat my engi, though it took him a while. If I were better he might not have been able to (I only hit 80 last week) though it’s an annoying bunker type and I would never have been able to kill him regardless.

I then logged in with my mesmer and he destroyed that pretty easily. Afterwards I tried a different build and I don’t want to talk about that, lol.

I was actually fairly satisfied with the engi given what I made it for and my lack of experience compared to Pyro. I’d be curious to see how a good, more offensive engi would square up against his build.

Hey pyro

You dont see so much using the counter setup anymore in power :P would you mind me giving this a try, i use this setup in WvW but without the pistol, how would it fare against outnumbered as im pretty familiar with the counter setup and understand its a pain to focus dps when you have more than one enemy, do you think it can stand up against a GS boonstrip shatter?

DeathReign.7821:

Gods Knight.4936:

First mesmer to beat me on that grats, I wont make excuses but most mesmers don’t. Just goes to show that it is still extremely OP yet they nerf warriors lol.

Claiming you are all that by playing an OP fotm though is hardly classy.

Edit: and yes warrior does take much more skill, it requires you actually be good. Not have a fotm crutch card. You should learn to read better, perhaps you can then try harder classes instead of bragging about abusing OP ones.

gf

I just about spat out my tea.

You challenged Pyro, claiming to have an OP build that stomps everyone and you got stomped. Don’t come back here crying because you lost. You are the definition of a sore loser, and it doesn’t surprise me at all that you play a warrior (and think that it requires more skill than a Mesmer).

Thanks for the good laugh, though.

I don’t see see how running around in circles while phantasms do all the work needs any skill ?

Are you on EU or NA? I would love to try my build against this, as I killed a lot of “pure” phantasm mesmers so far.

hihey.1075:

Are you on EU or NA? I would love to try my build against this, as I killed a lot of “pure” phantasm mesmers so far.

although its phantasm, its similar to the old counter playstyle before they nerfed it by added torment to illusionary counter, the damage that it could do was insane but now its half that of riposte, so i wouldnt expect it to be the phantasm style youre used to playing, i would go as far as saying this is a counter/phantasm hybrid as he has more than likey got blade training in his traits

Kratos.6293:

I don’t see see how running around in circles while phantasms do all the work needs any skill ?

1. You have to figure out when to summon the phantasms.
2. You have to place them. They are susceptible to AoE and not very smart.
3. You have only a few and they have cooldowns.
4. Phantasms aren’t clones, they have unique identifiers so the mesmer is much more easily found than in a clone build.
5. The build is glassy and relies on active defenses. That means you have to use blocks and blurred frenzy, and again, know which to use, when and how.
6. The build is designed for dueling and isn’t great in 1vX, so you also have to know when and how to disengage.

Etc.

Qaelyn.7612:

Kratos.6293:

I don’t see see how running around in circles while phantasms do all the work needs any skill ?

1. You have to figure out when to summon the phantasms.
2. You have to place them. They are susceptible to AoE and not very smart.
3. You have only a few and they have cooldowns.
4. Phantasms aren’t clones, they have unique identifiers so the mesmer is much more easily found than in a clone build.
5. The build is glassy and relies on active defenses. That means you have to use blocks and blurred frenzy, and again, know which to use, when and how.
6. The build is designed for dueling and isn’t great in 1vX, so you also have to know when and how to disengage.

Etc.

you also forgot checking to make sure youre not blinded :P

Qaelyn.7612:

Kratos.6293:

I don’t see see how running around in circles while phantasms do all the work needs any skill ?

1. You have to figure out when to summon the phantasms.
2. You have to place them. They are susceptible to AoE and not very smart.
3. You have only a few and they have cooldowns.
4. Phantasms aren’t clones, they have unique identifiers so the mesmer is much more easily found than in a clone build.
5. The build is glassy and relies on active defenses. That means you have to use blocks and blurred frenzy, and again, know which to use, when and how.
6. The build is designed for dueling and isn’t great in 1vX, so you also have to know when and how to disengage.

Etc.

Thank you.

Relying on active defenses (which this build is based around – well, most Mesmer builds in general) will always require more skill than relying on passive defenses.

DeathReign.7821:

Qaelyn.7612:

Kratos.6293:

I don’t see see how running around in circles while phantasms do all the work needs any skill ?

1. You have to figure out when to summon the phantasms.
2. You have to place them. They are susceptible to AoE and not very smart.
3. You have only a few and they have cooldowns.
4. Phantasms aren’t clones, they have unique identifiers so the mesmer is much more easily found than in a clone build.
5. The build is glassy and relies on active defenses. That means you have to use blocks and blurred frenzy, and again, know which to use, when and how.
6. The build is designed for dueling and isn’t great in 1vX, so you also have to know when and how to disengage.

Etc.

Thank you.

Relying on active defenses (which this build is based around – well, most Mesmer builds in general) will always require more skill than relying on passive defenses.

this is the reason for the very large margin of skill between players, hence why some mesmers just get rolled over and some are the ones doing the steamrolling

Again, I fought Pyro using this exact build last night with my mesmer, and it wasn’t close. If we had switched builds, he would have still beaten me, and it also wouldn’t have been close.

Anyone who says mesmers don’t require skill is full of kitten, period, end of discussion.

RedCobra.7693:

Hey pyro

You dont see so much using the counter setup anymore in power :P would you mind me giving this a try, i use this setup in WvW but without the pistol, how would it fare against outnumbered as im pretty familiar with the counter setup and understand its a pain to focus dps when you have more than one enemy, do you think it can stand up against a GS boonstrip shatter?

In an outnumbered fight, things can go really bad really fast. It’s very tough to keep up the pressure and properly avoid incoming damage from multiple people just using active defenses. I roam with it in wvw, but you’ve got to be very aware of how many people you’re getting into a fight with.

As far as standing against a gs boon strip shatter, yes. Basically, this build is incredibly difficult to fight for anything that doesn’t have strong and reliable access to blinds and/or interrupts.

@hihey: both.

Pyroatheist.9031:

RedCobra.7693:

Hey pyro

You dont see so much using the counter setup anymore in power :P would you mind me giving this a try, i use this setup in WvW but without the pistol, how would it fare against outnumbered as im pretty familiar with the counter setup and understand its a pain to focus dps when you have more than one enemy, do you think it can stand up against a GS boonstrip shatter?

In an outnumbered fight, things can go really bad really fast. It’s very tough to keep up the pressure and properly avoid incoming damage from multiple people just using active defenses. I roam with it in wvw, but you’ve got to be very aware of how many people you’re getting into a fight with.

As far as standing against a gs boon strip shatter, yes. Basically, this build is incredibly difficult to fight for anything that doesn’t have strong and reliable access to blinds and/or interrupts.

@hihey: both.

Ive been on an eternal struggle to find the one size fits all build for the mesmer but im getting to the point of giving up. i feel the counter setup is somewhere along the lines of what i want, maybe try your build but with a GS instead of the sword pistol for 1200 range pressure

Pyroatheist.9031:

Well, that went pretty quick. The engineer build that roflstomps anything turned out to be a turret heavy rifle based power build. It didn’t do too well. The guy (as I had predicted) was quite a sore loser, and decided to degenerate into accusations such as ‘mesmer is for no brainer button mashing’. weeeeeeee

Edit: Aaaaaaaand he just claimed playing a warrior takes more skill than playing a mesmer. See second screenshot.

The engineer forum is full of people boasting about how unbelievably strong the profession is and that it can kill anything 1v1.

Just /ignore.

RedCobra.7693:

i want, maybe try your build but with a GS instead of the sword pistol for 1200 range pressure

I did just that for wvw, but I use Pyro’s build for spvp and when I solo.

MrSilver.5269:

The engineer forum is full of people boasting about how unbelievably strong the profession is and that it can kill anything 1v1.

Just /ignore.

Not that I’ve seen.

I did however see a thread from you saying that engineers are the “worst profession”, the only justification for which you’ve even attempted to provide is that “zerg commanders don’t ask for engineers”. So I think you’re a little confused about whom is actually making what ridiculous claims.

My guess is that good engineers can kill pretty much anything 1v1 with the right build. Just as a good mesmer can. A fight between the two would likely come down to skill, and it’s also quite possible in PvP for a duel to stalemate.

Qaelyn.7612:

My guess is that good engineers can kill pretty much anything 1v1 with the right build. Just as a good mesmer can. A fight between the two would likely come down to skill, and it’s also quite possible in PvP for a duel to stalemate.

Yeah, that’s pretty accurate. It also comes down to builds to some extent. The phantasm build I used will kill even the tankiest bunker engineer, it just might take too long. A PU condition build, on the other hand, can have a huge amount of trouble taking out that same engineer depending on how aggressively they play.

Well, an Engineer with automated Response is pretty much unkillable by PU. Especially if they run -40% condi duration food and stay still when they have Torment or Confusion.

That said, I added you on my Contact list, Pyro. Would really love to see how much your build is effective

Qaelyn.7612:

My guess is that good engineers can kill pretty much anything 1v1 with the right build. Just as a good mesmer can. A fight between the two would likely come down to skill, and it’s also quite possible in PvP for a duel to stalemate.

Engineers are easy kills for a well played mesmer. Part of it is that engineers need to grow a sixth finger on each hand just to keep up, and then have to play flawlessly. There simply is very little room for error.

When I started playing the mesmer I realized just how much of a disadvantage the engineer faces. That said, any class can beat any class, and what usually separates is skill, build, and experience.

Pyro’s build is really amazing however, although not invincible.