Guild Wars 2

Been going through the Dev Tracker and haven’t seen anything. Has anyone heard of what the devs are thinking for mesmer sceptre? are they even looking at it?

Any info would be great. thanks.

Scepter is fine. My main weapon.

I agree, sceptre is fine

Scepter is great as a temporary switch weapon, stick on some confusions after using your offhand skills, but I really can not understand how anyone can use it as a main weapon.

Because scepter can’t be put in the offhand…

Scepter just needs some condition on auto attack (like confusion on the third hit) and maybe something to make the scepter clones more useful.

^ Not gonna disagree with that. Would be good if they ever get around to doing it.

That’s mainly what I was wondering, in the tooltip it says it confuses but in reality it doesn’t. I feel like the clones are sort of underpowered (gs clones are good for applying bleeds if you have sharper images, staff is great for winds of chaos etc …) but sceptre clones just feel like they lack a punch. Was just curious if there’d been any word on it, thanks!

Where does it say it has confusion? We must be looking at different things.

The main problem with scepter is sword works so much better if you’re willing to give up the range. Only confusion and clone death builds are really benefiting from it. The block is weak, the clone generation is slow, and the damage is sub par outside of confusion. You can use it and kill things, but that could be said for the crappy golem elite asuras have… it still doesn’t make it “fine”.

I don’t think they’re looking at scepter any more than the other weapons tbh.

Since I am build around condition dmg and confusion, scepter is great. It is funny how many times people just insta kill themselves with 11 stacks of confusion on them.

Scepter auto-attack generates clones so when clones use the auto-attack……THEY SHOULD MAKE MORE CLONES. Clones making clones making clones, it would be glorious.

@saraneth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scepter#Mesmer

look at ether clone:
“Shoot out a third bolt of energy that confuses your target. Summon a clone that casts Ether Bolt.”

its a trashy main hand and should completely reworked. This is how i think it should be. Autos apply bleeding (5sec) and third auto confusion for 3sec. The useless block should be reworked or completely removed for a nice aoe spell. Skill three could stay as is be maybe increase its casting time by 0.5sec

Since when did people start believing things written on wikis? It doesn’t show that in game.

Nuka Cola.8520:

its a trashy main hand and should completely reworked. This is how i think it should be. Autos apply bleeding (5sec) and third auto confusion for 3sec. The useless block should be reworked or completely removed for a nice aoe spell. Skill three could stay as is be maybe increase its casting time by 0.5sec

I wouldn’t mind seeing bleed being added, as it is currently its wants to be a power(#1) and condition weapon(#3) which is never good. Replacing the block would also make it a more ranged oriented weapon (what it should be) and gives us an oportunity to add a decent aoe attack to the mesmer.

Saraneth.6021:

Since when did people start believing things written on wikis? It doesn’t show that in game.

Actually it was in Beta. The number one skill would summon a clone at the third hit and that clone would cause confusion. It was removed but the tooltip wasn’t changed until later.

Really? So they intentionally nerfed scepter to what it is now?

Yeah it’s pretty bad, ranged weapon but it doesn’t deal enough direct or condition damage. Clone generation is too slow to be useful and the clones themselves are only shatter fodder. Compared to mainhand sword, scepter is complete trash. Confusing images is the only good thing about the weapon but confusion’s only useful in pvp. Replace it with mainhand pistol I say.

Scepter is great at PvE, as soon as a mob bites on one clone, you auto attack and auto generate more clones around it. Mob AI is programmed to target close by enemies, which means you can safely sit at range 900 and auto make clones and the mob will only hit clones. Champion that can 1 shot your clone make it a bit harder, but then its a champion. Skill #2 is great in boss fights with predictable routine, and skill #3 is just icing on the cake.

It is terrible in PvP, skill #1 is way too slow, melee would close the distance on you before you can make a single clone. Then you hit #2 cause you’re being chopped down by 100b, only to mitigate 1k~2k at best still taking in the other 9k dmg. Range enemies will out-shoot you on their 1200 range vs scepter’s 900. Finally, skill #3 is mostly dodged in my encounters, if some noob allows you to fully channel 5 confusion stacks, he deserves to die.

At best, scepter is your alternative weapon set, and used in predictable situations to stack confusion.

I use scepter only because it’s my only 1handed ranged option and that I want a second off-hand. I really like #2, but #1 is quite slow on 3rd hit(even the clone annoys me sometimes) and #3 channeling just annoys me as well being easy to dodge.

I’m hoping they either tweak it a bit or add more weapons(pistol MH?).

I love scepter… kind of confused on all the hate. I’m assuming it’s from people that don’t understand how to use it properly. That block is there to eat the impending attack after using your channel #3. Please keep complaining and get my wonderful weapon buffed for me even though it is completely unnecessary.

I don’t agree that scepter is fine.

I’m not saying it’s weak, per say, but I am going to say it seems to be lacking identity.

confusion images screams “i’m a condition weapon”, while every other attack screams “i’m a power weapon”.

Granted, this is not just an issue with scepter, but with the entire mesmer profession itself (unlike every other condition build I can think of, you also need to stack precision to get mesmer cond builds fully viable?).

My suggestion:

cut the direct damage of 1 by 70%, add a bounce to it, and have it apply either confusion, burning, or bleeding with each bounce.

Anyone saying the scepter is good is either lying or doing it bad.
Seriously, the weapon is designed to be condition damage one (just look at the trait buffing the scepter). Please show me how much condition it deals ? Oh yeah with #3 only with long reload. Nothing else does conditions.
Auto attack is weaker than any other weapon (except staff but staff is good with condition damage). It is also very slow and useless : pops a clone.
So, tell me, how many people use sceptre for clone generation and shattering ? None ? Yeah, that’s it.
Everything else is better to create clones : staff, GS, clone on dodge trait …
The block is quite OK though long CD for the effect but still OK as it’s ranged, maybe lesser CD but meh.
The #3 is OK, good, damage, good confusion.
What defintely needs total rework is auto attack to apply some conditions …

1 Slow ranged attack, have to get in close with a ranged weapon for it to do ok damage = rubbish

2 Block… horrid with that animation time… it means you have to choose between eating damage or actually getting in the counter-attack in after the block

3 Confuse – strong dmg, but very easily avoided with the telegraphed wind up animation and then easily dodged even if they let the first hit smack them

From 1-3 it’s bad all around without even comparing it to your other weapon options.

Points about the scepter:

1) The auto-attack is too slow, mainly due to the weird mechanics it has concerning when the next part of the auto-attack occurs.

2) The clones it summons are useless, they appear next to the target so usually get one shot and they too attack too slowly, with no useful effects.

3) The attack scepter clones use, does nothing useful, unless you have Sharper Images. Even then GS clones make much better of that trait.

4) A block on a ranged weapon…I’ve used it, but it’d be better to replace it with something that just summoned clones on a regular basis without having to block, that way….

5) Auto attack could then be changed to be much faster and to do something useful on hit 3, such as confusion.

6) The 3rd attack has a long cooldown, an obvious windup and is too easy to dodge/avoid/block.

At the moment I really see no reason to use it as a mainhand weapon over the sword.

KratosAngel.7289:

Anyone saying the scepter is good is either lying or doing it bad.

Wait, you’re seriously saying that anyone that’s having success with scepter us playing bad? That’s absolutely ridiculous. Of you’re playing good, you’re playing bad? Ll!

I play scepter as my primary weapon, staff offhand, great condition shatter. The scepter allows me to generate clones faster, to feed my shatter build. And that is why the scepter is a great weapon.

If you don’t need clones much, then yes at that point it’s inferior.

Odaman.8359:

The main problem with scepter is sword works so much better if you’re willing to give up the range. Only confusion and clone death builds are really benefiting from it. The block is weak, the clone generation is slow, and the damage is sub par outside of confusion. You can use it and kill things, but that could be said for the crappy golem elite asuras have… it still doesn’t make it “fine”.

I don’t think they’re looking at scepter any more than the other weapons tbh.

The block is actually amazing if you time it right. If you don’t need a block, you can convert it to a blind, which is nearly as good. The scepter/1 dps varies inversely with range (at melee distance it’s similar to sword/1). And, it produces clones roughly 2-3x faster than sword.

The best part of scepter is that unlike sword, it’s working all the time. There’s no time lost for gap closing (sword/3 doesn’t work as a gap closer most of the time — ports you OOR to melee and is really slow). IMHO, unless you have a situation where you can keep your sword/1 auto hitting the target every second you have sword out, scepter is kicking your butt on DPS.

OTH, I do agree scepter is “low dps”. Same with sword, staff, and (now) GS. Post-nerf, Staff is now our top DPS weapon, which is rather sad. All the weapons needed to be buffed up to match old GS. The sad part is that even the devs are focused on the size of the hit delivered by the phantasms and not how long it takes to get that hit into play. Every fraction of a second that hit is delayed lowers DPS.

For sword peeps, that includes closing time & avoidance time. For ranged, that includes projectile time. For phantasms, it now includes an extra 05.s delay as well as any pre-damage animation time, such as pursuit, leaps, dashes, etc..

BTW, direct from the in-game tool-tip: “Ether clone. Clone. Shoot out a bolt of energy that confuses your target. Summon a clone that casts ether bolt.” From what I recall, it’s always stated it confuses on the 3rd hit, but has never done so in the released game.

Okuza.5210:

Odaman.8359:

The main problem with scepter is sword works so much better if you’re willing to give up the range. Only confusion and clone death builds are really benefiting from it. The block is weak, the clone generation is slow, and the damage is sub par outside of confusion. You can use it and kill things, but that could be said for the crappy golem elite asuras have… it still doesn’t make it “fine”.

I don’t think they’re looking at scepter any more than the other weapons tbh.

The block is actually amazing if you time it right. If you don’t need a block, you can convert it to a blind, which is nearly as good. The scepter/1 dps varies inversely with range (at melee distance it’s similar to sword/1). And, it produces clones roughly 2-3x faster than sword.

The best part of scepter is that unlike sword, it’s working all the time. There’s no time lost for gap closing (sword/3 doesn’t work as a gap closer most of the time — ports you OOR to melee and is really slow). IMHO, unless you have a situation where you can keep your sword/1 auto hitting the target every second you have sword out, scepter is kicking your butt on DPS.

OTH, I do agree scepter is “low dps”. Same with sword, staff, and (now) GS. Post-nerf, Staff is now our top DPS weapon, which is rather sad. All the weapons needed to be buffed up to match old GS. The sad part is that even the devs are focused on the size of the hit delivered by the phantasms and not how long it takes to get that hit into play. Every fraction of a second that hit is delayed lowers DPS.

For sword peeps, that includes closing time & avoidance time. For ranged, that includes projectile time. For phantasms, it now includes an extra 05.s delay as well as any pre-damage animation time, such as pursuit, leaps, dashes, etc..

BTW, direct from the in-game tool-tip: “Ether clone. Clone. Shoot out a bolt of energy that confuses your target. Summon a clone that casts ether bolt.” From what I recall, it’s always stated it confuses on the 3rd hit, but has never done so in the released game.

This is a perfect example of what we call “sugarcoating”

People have “success” with the scepter doesn’t mean it’s still any good.

You were able to cut down a tree with a broken axe. Congratulations

Okay you guys seem to be having a problem understanding or maybe it’s just my build that finds the scepter just fine…

I run a scepter/pistol – sword/sword build. That is why I don’t use sword over scepter since I’m already using it.

Skill #3 may have a fairly obvious wind-up animation, which is why I combine it with pistol shot #5 for a slight stun while i get the spell off on them. By the end of the animation they have usually closed the distance to me. Might I add I always summon my phantasm first. Upon reaching me I use the block #2 which counterattacks and pushes me to the side spawning a clone in my place, at which point I dodge again giving me a nice distraction while I switch to my sword/sword and summon my other phantasm.

I see people saying that this weapon doesn’t know whether it’s condition or power… well why not both? I am mostly a power/crit build. #3 does a great amount of ranged direct damage, and the confusion stacks are just the icing on the cake when they close the distance to attack me. They damage themselves while my phantasm hits them and while I counterattack them.

I feel like most of you guys just want an IWIN weapon, which we don’t need in the slightest. If you combine your abilities properly then this class can succeed far above the rest.

Too many people saying that Scepter is fine now and it more or less has found its niche in Mesmer builds so I don’t really expect many changes if any to it even with the problems it still has.

Just more reason to give us a power based main Hand Pistol.

Jake Dressler.8204:

Okay you guys seem to be having a problem understanding or maybe it’s just my build that finds the scepter just fine…

I run a scepter/pistol – sword/sword build. That is why I don’t use sword over scepter since I’m already using it.

Skill #3 may have a fairly obvious wind-up animation, which is why I combine it with pistol shot #5 for a slight stun while i get the spell off on them. By the end of the animation they have usually closed the distance to me. Might I add I always summon my phantasm first. Upon reaching me I use the block #2 which counterattacks and pushes me to the side spawning a clone in my place, at which point I dodge again giving me a nice distraction while I switch to my sword/sword and summon my other phantasm.

I see people saying that this weapon doesn’t know whether it’s condition or power… well why not both? I am mostly a power/crit build. #3 does a great amount of ranged direct damage, and the confusion stacks are just the icing on the cake when they close the distance to attack me. They damage themselves while my phantasm hits them and while I counterattack them.

I feel like most of you guys just want an IWIN weapon, which we don’t need in the slightest. If you combine your abilities properly then this class can succeed far above the rest.

Don’t know how many times I have to repeat myself.

You washed your grimy bathtub with a toothbrush. Congratulations.

You pop your stun, get 3 stacks of confusion off while the last 2 get dodged when stun ended (it’s fairly obvious anyone who is stunned will dodge out of it when it ends or break the stun and dodge) then you switch to sword/sword till your one trick of a toothbrush is back up.

The issue is scepter as a whole. Currently it’s just bad when everything else can do it better. If you tried a real build you will find out how horrible scepter is right now. But people are stubborn and want to go against the flow and reject change.

If I have success with scepter & you don’t, maybe the problem is not that the scepter is a bad weapon, but you are a poor player.

Seriously. Calling it bad, then coming out with comparisons like cleaning bathtubs with toothbrushes or cutting down trees with broken axes proves nothing , those are feeble analogies.

I use the scepter & have GREAT success with it. This would disprove your premise. If you can’t, then I suspect the problem isn’t with the scepter.

Jake Dressler.8204:

Okay you guys seem to be having a problem understanding or maybe it’s just my build that finds the scepter just fine…

I run a scepter/pistol – sword/sword build. That is why I don’t use sword over scepter since I’m already using it.

Skill #3 may have a fairly obvious wind-up animation, which is why I combine it with pistol shot #5 for a slight stun while i get the spell off on them. By the end of the animation they have usually closed the distance to me. Might I add I always summon my phantasm first. Upon reaching me I use the block #2 which counterattacks and pushes me to the side spawning a clone in my place, at which point I dodge again giving me a nice distraction while I switch to my sword/sword and summon my other phantasm.

I see people saying that this weapon doesn’t know whether it’s condition or power… well why not both? I am mostly a power/crit build. #3 does a great amount of ranged direct damage, and the confusion stacks are just the icing on the cake when they close the distance to attack me. They damage themselves while my phantasm hits them and while I counterattack them.

I feel like most of you guys just want an IWIN weapon, which we don’t need in the slightest. If you combine your abilities properly then this class can succeed far above the rest.

There are far stronger things you can do after getting a magic bullet to land other than just scepter 3. Try magic bullet-> lol moa and remove them from the fight for 10s+… or blurred frenzy + shatter for far more damage… I could go on and on…

In essence though… you’re saying that you need them to be stunned in order to get it off. This is in no way showing that it’s a good weapon vs getting something bad to work. I’m glad you didn’t disagree with #1 & 2 being horrid though.

Morfedel.4165:

If I have success with scepter & you don’t, maybe the problem is not that the scepter is a bad weapon, but you are a poor player.

Seriously. Calling it bad, then coming out with comparisons like cleaning bathtubs with toothbrushes or cutting down trees with broken axes proves nothing , those are feeble analogies.

I use the scepter & have GREAT success with it. This would disprove your premise. If you can’t, then I suspect the problem isn’t with the scepter.

I can kill random baddies down with any weapon on any class… doesn’t mean that weapon is any good… I often kill baddies with smack on my support nade eng’s toolkit… but that’s far from a good idea for him to get into mele range.

Me and other players have shown why logically it’s a bad weapon. Just saying I’ve had great success with it proves nothing. Give reasons or show a video of you killing a non-baddie with it to back up your claim.

Morfedel.4165:

If I have success with scepter & you don’t, maybe the problem is not that the scepter is a bad weapon, but you are a poor player.

Seriously. Calling it bad, then coming out with comparisons like cleaning bathtubs with toothbrushes or cutting down trees with broken axes proves nothing , those are feeble analogies.

I use the scepter & have GREAT success with it. This would disprove your premise. If you can’t, then I suspect the problem isn’t with the scepter.

way to not understand how analogy’s work. And you haven’t proven this “great” success scepter is.

Okay to the people saying you’re having success with the scepter, great. That doesn’t make it a good weapon. MH sword>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>scepter, with sword you get mobility, power, and defensive abilities (blurred frenzy is waaaay better than scepter #2) Illusionary leap is great and the 1 skill is faster and stronger than scepter 1. The scepter is trying to be some kitten power+condition hybrid and it’s inneffective. The only advantage scepter has over mh sword is range and that hardly matters because it’s auto-attack is so slow. And if you’re saying that scepter is better for shatter builds then that’s just dumb, for illusionary persona with MR to be useful you need to be in melee range and scepeter is ranged. Illusionary counter has the same CD as leap and you have to be hit to generate the clone also you don’t get an immobilize with scepter. You may enjoy playing with trash but the rest of us don’t.

The problem with sceptre isn’t that it can’t be good. It can. The problem with sceptre (and torch too) is that in almost every situation another weapon can do it too, and often better. This leaves sceptre and torch in unfortunate positions where they are only preferred in very niche builds that are useful in only a handful of situations.

Since most weapons can perform better in most situations, you almost have to go out of your way to take up a sceptre or torch. Not a very good design.

The problem with sceptre is… all these people who hate it are wanting more variety for their burst/high crit builds, or feel they need numerous other auto applied conditions (without traiting for them) to make up the difference.

Sceptre/torch is my main. I know, people swear they’ll remember in their eternal slumbers and roll over in their graves for having read that but the fact is, it’s powerful if you build and use it right. Devs could change it if they like (and no I haven’t heard of any changes in the works), but it’d only make a powerful weapon more powerful. It’s a clone creating, shatter, confusion, CD weapon. It’s what it’s good at. It’s what it should be used for. Then again, if you can come up with other uses for it that are effective at winning fights, you have every obligation to use them.

In the end all that matters is who’s still standing when the fight is done.

Didn’t JP say in his post WAY back at the end of BWE3 that Scepter needed a huge rework?

And then…
….
….
Proceeded to do nothing about it? XD

t’s a clone creating, shatter, confusion, CD weapon. It’s what it’s good at.

If only it were good at that, but it’s not. I can get more clones by simply traiting 5 pts into illusions (mandatory for shatter anyway) and using pretty much any other weapon.

Either they need to reduce the chain to 2, or perhaps make the block spawn an illusion when its blind hits.

i really hope they just leave scepter alone

i love it the way it is

now that GS is “broken”, people wanna complain about scepter…sigh

Drederik.5679:

i really hope they just leave scepter alone

i love it the way it is

now that GS is “broken”, people wanna complain about scepter…sigh

People have been complaining about scepter before the game even came out.

It was good BWE1 where it applied confusion but they nerfed that into oblivion and then in BWE2 they nerfed confusion damage in PvP which was the reason it was nerfed in the first place and they never compensated for it even though they said they were going to.

Instead they give block a damage buff even though you are a sitting duck when block is activated because of the cast time. (The cast time that happens when block blocks an attack).

Drederik.5679:

i really hope they just leave scepter alone

i love it the way it is

now that GS is “broken”, people wanna complain about scepter…sigh

It needs to have attack chain 2 removed from slot 1 and attack chain 1 needs to apply confusion for 2 seconds.

Blocks activation cast time needs to grant blurr.

That will fix scepter.

Enough forums! It’s time to go chop people down with sceptre!

One of my prototype engineer builds got decimated by a scepsword suicide build in WvW today. I’m not even mad, I’ve just never seen confusion hit that hard and it is popular for engis to stack confusion right now…

KirinDave.6451:

One of my prototype engineer builds got decimated by a scepsword suicide build in WvW today. I’m not even mad, I’ve just never seen confusion hit that hard and it is popular for engis to stack confusion right now…

That’s because confusion is broken in WvWvW and does the same damage it does in PvE. Confusion damage was nerfed in Spvp by half to balance it.

I hope they add a condition generator to the first skill (a 2 sec weakness would be awesome!), other then that it’s fine. I love the condition skill, and a block with a ranged blind is a nice skill to have when you have condition stacked, or are running away from a foe.

Yeah, some kind of condition (or boon) to the #1 would help a lot. Scepter clones really need some identity. All the other clones can do something useful (even if GS clones need SI), but even with SI, scepter clones can’t really do much. It really makes scepter only good for condition shatter builds and subpar for everything else.

The other thing it really needs is to decouple the attack rate from the animation. Without the range advantage over sword, there’s very little sword can’t do better, except those condition shatter builds, and I even sword for mine for better survival.

Aberrant.6749:

There are far stronger things you can do after getting a magic bullet to land other than just scepter 3. Try magic bullet-> lol moa and remove them from the fight for 10s+… or blurred frenzy + shatter for far more damage… I could go on and on…

In essence though… you’re saying that you need them to be stunned in order to get it off. This is in no way showing that it’s a good weapon vs getting something bad to work. I’m glad you didn’t disagree with #1 & 2 being horrid though.

Glad your reading comprehension skills are top notch… Please do tell what ranged attacks a mesmer has that beat scepter #3 in damage. Saying Moa has nothing to do with this argument, it is usable by everyone no matter what weapons you have out. Oh and no thanks, I will not use an ability as unbalanced and cheap as it.

Back to the point of your reading comprehension skills. I believe I stated that the #2 block I do use. At no point did I say it was horrid or even imply it for that matter. I have no problem with #1 either, I think the clone summoning bonus is more than enough. Last I checked there are plenty of weapons that needs a stun/root to actually make use of their main attacks. 100 blades comes to mind, Blurred Frenzy… pretty much any of them that root the caster.

In the end it is pointless to argue with you, because you want to pick and choose which part of my statements you reply to, instead of the statements as a whole. Did the part where I said I use sword/sword and scepter/pistol ever pop into your head at some point? If it did, did you not realize having sword/pistol and sword/sword would be utterly pointless? Or are you just implying that I must use GS or Staff? Please take your childish debate skills elsewhere, where they may actually make sense to someone.

Okuza.5210:

Odaman.8359:

The main problem with scepter is sword works so much better if you’re willing to give up the range. Only confusion and clone death builds are really benefiting from it. The block is weak, the clone generation is slow, and the damage is sub par outside of confusion. You can use it and kill things, but that could be said for the crappy golem elite asuras have… it still doesn’t make it “fine”.

I don’t think they’re looking at scepter any more than the other weapons tbh.

The block is actually amazing if you time it right. If you don’t need a block, you can convert it to a blind, which is nearly as good. The scepter/1 dps varies inversely with range (at melee distance it’s similar to sword/1). And, it produces clones roughly 2-3x faster than sword.

The best part of scepter is that unlike sword, it’s working all the time. There’s no time lost for gap closing (sword/3 doesn’t work as a gap closer most of the time — ports you OOR to melee and is really slow). IMHO, unless you have a situation where you can keep your sword/1 auto hitting the target every second you have sword out, scepter is kicking your butt on DPS.

OTH, I do agree scepter is “low dps”. Same with sword, staff, and (now) GS. Post-nerf, Staff is now our top DPS weapon, which is rather sad. All the weapons needed to be buffed up to match old GS. The sad part is that even the devs are focused on the size of the hit delivered by the phantasms and not how long it takes to get that hit into play. Every fraction of a second that hit is delayed lowers DPS.

For sword peeps, that includes closing time & avoidance time. For ranged, that includes projectile time. For phantasms, it now includes an extra 05.s delay as well as any pre-damage animation time, such as pursuit, leaps, dashes, etc..

BTW, direct from the in-game tool-tip: “Ether clone. Clone. Shoot out a bolt of energy that confuses your target. Summon a clone that casts ether bolt.” From what I recall, it’s always stated it confuses on the 3rd hit, but has never done so in the released game.

The block is trash because of the delay between the block and the counter attack. Not only is a delay not necessary because you’re already losing dps during the channel, but it also opens it up to have the damage half interrupted. The blind is ok, but there should be damage associated with it tbh. The clone generation is trash except in the situation where you don’t mind taking a dps loss to throw out clone death conditions. If you’re spamming one just to generate clones, more power to you, but don’t come here and say it’s anywhere near optimal because it’s not.