Guild Wars 2

So the short version is I got antsy and wanted to mix things up a bit. I really enjoy the shatter condi playstyle, but I wasn’t convniced full condi was the way to go, so I shot for a hybrid condi/dps build.

I actually like it for the most part, but it just feels like it’s missing……something.

Here is the build as it currently stands: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAseWnsIC9fiVoBmpBEgilZjqMAqtcreX/1hFdJipiA-TRhbABkq+zaK/qc/BK1HAgSQSBso0I-e

When I go into fractals I usually swap the traits/weapons around to do a full well/alacrity stack, but I keep the Viper armor and swap to Zerker weapons/trinkets. I also swap the weapons a lot depending on the situation (For example I swap to Greatsword, Sword/Pistol when I do the south part of the Tarir meta).

Anyway, the point of the build is torment/blind/confusion on every shatter, and I can shatter very often. I also get blind and confusion on blocks/evades, which I get a lot of between shield, sword 2, Shatter 4, and staff Aegis. While the shield is great for skipping mobs in open world, it seems slightly underwhelming there.

What are your thoughts? Has anyone done the math on Viper overall? On that note, is anyone else using Viper, and if so, what build type are you running?

Looking forward to your feedback!

I’m in progress of making ascended Viper weapons and armor. It seems your build has more condition damage than mine. I use Rampager/Captain trinkets to help get me at least 50% crit chance. I’m actually one of those mesmers that use the scepter, but here’s the build I’m working on:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAre8cnsICtfi9fCWoBUrhFVjiMAGhirOZn2qFt6SjsD-TBSBQBNU9nJpEsZnEA/t/gWUi1P9DbR5BAeCAkCQPpWA-e

And like you, I also wanted to have a Hybrid DPS build setup. Now, I’m still deciding if I want to have both Captain accessories (as shown in the link above) or have Captain amulet/back piece instead; either one still provides the same amount of stats. The toughness is to help with some survivability. If I really don’t need it, then I’ll go all Rampager trinkets. I also have Berserker’s to switch to, if needed.

I recall Blood Red Arachnid did the math of Viper’s versus Sinisters.

Edit: Since toughness increases aggro, it’d be best to give to the more tankier builds/professions/roles.

So this is PvE right? One of the main reasons why you don’t see Mesmer going condi in PvE is because the type of conditions Mesmer is best at are more suited for PvP (Torment and Confusion). They are also decent at bleeds, but so is everyone else. You will simply never approach the amount of Condi DPS a Engi/Ranger can do. You probably won’t even be able to keep up with Necro/Warrior. The output is just too low. You will do more damage as a Power mesmer. And honestly, as a mesmer, DPS is kind of a side thing. I’d suggest putting that Viper on a Necro, would suit it well there.

Verificus.4320:

So this is PvE right? One of the main reasons why you don’t see Mesmer going condi in PvE is because the type of conditions Mesmer is best at are more suited for PvP (Torment and Confusion). They are also decent at bleeds, but so is everyone else. You will simply never approach the amount of Condi DPS a Engi/Ranger can do. You probably won’t even be able to keep up with Necro/Warrior. The output is just too low. You will do more damage as a Power mesmer. And honestly, as a mesmer, DPS is kind of a side thing. I’d suggest putting that Viper on a Necro, would suit it well there.

Hybrid mesmer can put out very good dps in PvE.
Power isn’t generally better because condi can’t dps, power is better because it always works, and has better reflects to boot.

But hybrid dps is very strong.

That said, shatters are the wrong focus for hybrid pve dps.
The real meat is Sharper Images + Phantasmal Fury + iDuelist and iWarden.

iDuelist in particular does strong physical damage and strong condi damage with dueling and Viper gear. Once they fix Berserker Runes, they’ll be a top tier rune (just middling right now because the t6 condi damage boost is broken).

But shatters do terrible physical dps, even in a full power build, so going hybrid shatter is worse than full power OR full condi.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Verificus.4320:

So this is PvE right? One of the main reasons why you don’t see Mesmer going condi in PvE is because the type of conditions Mesmer is best at are more suited for PvP (Torment and Confusion). They are also decent at bleeds, but so is everyone else. You will simply never approach the amount of Condi DPS a Engi/Ranger can do. You probably won’t even be able to keep up with Necro/Warrior. The output is just too low. You will do more damage as a Power mesmer. And honestly, as a mesmer, DPS is kind of a side thing. I’d suggest putting that Viper on a Necro, would suit it well there.

Hybrid mesmer can put out very good dps in PvE.
Power isn’t generally better because condi can’t dps, power is better because it always works, and has better reflects to boot.

But hybrid dps is very strong.

That said, shatters are the wrong focus for hybrid pve dps.
The real meat is Sharper Images + Phantasmal Fury + iDuelist and iWarden.

iDuelist in particular does strong physical damage and strong condi damage with dueling and Viper gear. Once they fix Berserker Runes, they’ll be a top tier rune (just middling right now because the t6 condi damage boost is broken).

But shatters do terrible physical dps, even in a full power build, so going hybrid shatter is worse than full power OR full condi.

So has it been tested/confirmed that Phantasmal Fury is better than Duelist’s Discipline for a PvE condi hybrid build? I’m in a similar boat as the OP in that I want to try mixing Viper gear into my Sinister stats, but don’t know if the drop in condi damage and precision is worth it.

Found it! Here’s BRA’s “Sinister VS Viper” thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Sinister-vs-Viper/first#post5715531

@AlphatheWhite

While it is true that shatter dps is not good, the shatter trait procs can still help. From what I’ve gathered on the forums, it seems chronomancer’s main role is to bring as much alacrity/quickness to the group. The dps and conditions we apply are bonuses.

@Zumi

Nice build, but one thing I’m curiously concern – how would you handle conditions on you? Since it doesn’t show sigils, I assume you’ll have Sigil of Purity/Cleansing/Generosity to help remove them?

Noah.9654:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Verificus.4320:

So this is PvE right? One of the main reasons why you don’t see Mesmer going condi in PvE is because the type of conditions Mesmer is best at are more suited for PvP (Torment and Confusion). They are also decent at bleeds, but so is everyone else. You will simply never approach the amount of Condi DPS a Engi/Ranger can do. You probably won’t even be able to keep up with Necro/Warrior. The output is just too low. You will do more damage as a Power mesmer. And honestly, as a mesmer, DPS is kind of a side thing. I’d suggest putting that Viper on a Necro, would suit it well there.

Hybrid mesmer can put out very good dps in PvE.
Power isn’t generally better because condi can’t dps, power is better because it always works, and has better reflects to boot.

But hybrid dps is very strong.

That said, shatters are the wrong focus for hybrid pve dps.
The real meat is Sharper Images + Phantasmal Fury + iDuelist and iWarden.

iDuelist in particular does strong physical damage and strong condi damage with dueling and Viper gear. Once they fix Berserker Runes, they’ll be a top tier rune (just middling right now because the t6 condi damage boost is broken).

But shatters do terrible physical dps, even in a full power build, so going hybrid shatter is worse than full power OR full condi.

So has it been tested/confirmed that Phantasmal Fury is better than Duelist’s Discipline for a PvE condi hybrid build? I’m in a similar boat as the OP in that I want to try mixing Viper gear into my Sinister stats, but don’t know if the drop in condi damage and precision is worth it.

DD will probably still do more dps on the iDuelist, but marginally so. That said, PF will boost any other phantasm you use. So if that’s iWarden (and you should really consider it), then PF absolutely outperforms.

@Phloww: while it’s true that dps is secondary, it’s dps that is in question here. And as long as you’re going hybrid anyway, iDuelist/iWarden will absolutely outperform shatters, with iAvenger coming in when your wells aren’t enough to sustain alacrity, or when you really want to be packing the breakbar-killing of Tides of Time.

@ Alpha, do you have a link to a hybrid build .. just new to the Mesmer and need to understand.. Thanks!

Out of the current phantasms, for Hybrid, iAvenger, iDuelist, and iWarden are good choices. I wonder how iSwordsman, iWarlock, or iBerserker fare?

I heard that there are a lot of fixes coming this Tuesday, so here’s hoping Berserker runes, expertise, and concentration gets fix.

@ Alpha
I am also curious if you have a hybrid build and would like to see please.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNAsaWncfClfi9fCufCUrhFcjqMAWtfpuVv1cFN3aidA-TxRFAB9r+DAPBAiV+5++D+eKAaXfTWKBDAcAMchL8wBWf91Xf91b4hHe4hHuUALqrC-e

There’s an example I just threw together. Staff allows you to swap to clone dps if a boss really just wants your clones to die, but you could replace that with Focus and be just fine. The build as it is might actually benefit from DD, but with Viper gear I’d be inclined to just stick with PF. You could also theoretically replace iWarden with iDuelist, but that takes some confidence and skill with your timing, or your iWardens won’t get their full bleed stacks.

There’s a number of other options that would be options for swapping. Maim the Disillusioned might outperform PH if you shatter a lot, Compounding Power might outperform Persistence of Memory if you don’t shatter much, there’s a case to be made for Malicious Sorcery shaving time off your rotations, Signet of Midnight could replace Well of Calamity if you find you don’t need all the alacrity you provide, etc. etc.

The relevant point is that your primary sustained dps focus is getting a full set of phantasms up, especially iDuelists, for heavy Bleed stacking and physical dps at the same time.

Edit: replaced the power infusions with precision and the Toxic crystal with Toxic maintenance oil, to get the build up to abt 50% natural crit chance.

@ Alpha.. thanks much ..I’ll see what I can do with it.

This is what I’m currently running:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhQQNAr6dlknhO1YDawCNQtGL4GVZAsavWdser5KaudS1AA-TRyXABzqyieK/m7kAAwyDNuDAdPAgR17gn6EPoEMAwBQCHAGe4hHe4hLFwi6qA-e

I switch to AWTEW and DE for group content, usually.

Edit: had a sword equiped instead of a scepter. fixed.

Thanks Alpha for sharing.

I may have to look more into getting some Sinister trinkets as well as trying Dueling.

Phloww.1048:

Thanks Alpha for sharing.

I may have to look more into getting some Sinister trinkets as well as trying Dueling.

The nice thing about Sinister Trinkets is you can get a set of ascended ones for free through the Living Story.

Thanks for all the advice and ideas, everyone. I think my main problem was that I was too focused on all of the condition damage, which kind of defeated the purpose of a hybrid build. Also, as Phloww pointed out, I didn’t have a way to handle conditions on myself, which was less than ideal.

I’ve reworked it a bit and I’m going to give this version a shot. I wanted to have at least 50% crit chance, while maximizing damage and conditions everywhere else. This is what I ended up with:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhUQNAsaWnsICFphlfC+fCUrhFcjqMAWtXrOWv1cFN3OpdA-TRSFAB9raygKBB4JAQsyP33foe1M89UAghWA00FQKgF1VB-e

In fractals/raids I’ll swap to All’s Well That Ends Well, swap the heal signet and mantra for wells, and swap the Staff out for either a Focus or a Shield, depending on the situation.

The only two things that are less-than-ideal for me are 1) No blink. Man oh man I love me some blink. It’s usually an auto-include for me, but it didn’t fit with this build, and 2) The mantra. It’s boring, but I needed some sort of condi removal, so there it is. I considered using the heal well instead, but then I wouldn’t be able to get out dual iDuelists as quickly.

EDIT: Secondary thought I had. Danger Time seems to have some nice synergy with Well of Action and Time Warp, combined with the bleed on crit sigils, but I don’t really think it’s worth dropping Improved Alacrity for.

@Zumi

Yeah, it’s tough to try to fight a condi removal and a stunbreaker while having well of Recall and Action. I’d say it depends on the encounter and switch between Mantra of Resolve and Blink.

I think you’re okay with having full Vipers for weapons and armor, since you don’t really need ferocity that much if going mix/hybrid dps (unless you want to, which is fine; can’t go wrong with berserker).

Alpha’s and Zumi’s builds made me adjust my build a bit and came up with this newer version:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAra8encfCtfi9fC2fCUrhFcjqMAWtXruVv1cFN3OpeD-TxRBQBNU9nJpEkaK/a2JBwf7P0P9DA4JAEA4AY9qX9qHs+6rv+6r36rv+6rvepA0TXF-e

I’ll have to test this out and see how it fares. Thank you both!

Hey guys,
I am currently trying to craft my first ascended weapons for my mesmer and totally unsure which stats I should craft them with. Currently I am on rabid rare gear, I prefer condi playstyle over power. I dont run fractals, I am a very casual player who prefers PvP over PvE, but for the time beeing I want to explore all the HoT events etc.

Can somebody give me a recommendation? What is the main difference between hybrid playstyle and full condi? So far I’d understand that as hybrid you focus on getting your dps phantasms out and full condi is more shatter oriented?

OT:
Does the Toughness of Rabid Gear make me get the aggro from mobs in open world events?