Guild Wars 2

I know that there’s at least one another thread that discusses Phantasms after the most recent patch, but I’m starting a new thread because:

1. I’m seeking specific advice.
2. The Illusionary Warden does not seek its target, which means that the most recent patch has an even greater effect on its usability.
3. I’m having other issues with the weapon.

I’ve been trying to create some more balanced Builds where I can do some support and some damage, but not purely one or the other. I chose the Focus as my major off-hand weapon (with sword main-hand) because:

1. I can give everyone increased movement speed.
2. The Phantasm’s Combo Finisher can heal conditions.
3. The “pull” mechanic can be both used offensively and defensively, for myself or as support.
4. With the correct trait, both Focus skills reflect projectiles.

After the most recent patch, I’ve had the following issues:

1. The Phantasm cannot be summoned on a moving target, because the attack will usually miss entirely and do no damage.
2. The Phantasm cannot be summoned around multiple targets, because it’ll usually die right after attacking 0-4 times.
3. Even with the correct trait, Temporal Curtain doesn’t seem to be reflecting projectiles anymore (I’m still getting hit by arrows).

I’ve been trying to explore other builds, but my “best” builds ended up being a build that spawns clones pretty quickly, and a build that looks pretty much identical to Shatter Cat.

I hate cookie cutter builds, and I feel like I’m being funnelled towards certain builds (if I want to continue sword main-hand) or taking up a Staff (which isn’t my preferred gameplay style). I’ve also tried that Greatsword and I didn’t enjoy it.

So could I get some advice? I’d really like suggestions on ways to use the Illusionary Warden that don’t rely on said issues. Am I even using the weapon correctly? Is there another build that you’d suggest?

I’m a sword/focus user.

However I am a tank/control build(with some support)

My phant almost always survive until their off cooldown.(really high hp and def)

Anyway for 1 you could summon it and then use tc to pull them into it.

For 2 I don’t got a problem with because it survive just fine with me.

For you in dgn through you should wait until the mobs is on someone and then summon it. If you looking for damage from it.

Plus defender phant is your friend, you not tank build so it might not work any where near as well.

However for me it last 15+ secs, with a 24 sec cooldown. So got less then 10 secs cooldown for me and it halfs everyone damage done to them.

Also works for your other phant and so they keeps them alive like crazy.

Also if traited ya phant keep regen/protection on 100% of the time(as well as you).

This may not work for you since you not tank build.

However for me I can ram a mob of 5 against a wall, and then summon a defender/bersker/warden and they never die and I get like 0 damage done on me(talking about dgn mobs even) With the reflex and so on.

Lastly the tc is fk up, it will be fix hopefully one day.

however for now I would not use it when it a life and death type of time.

Because you cant trust it.

iWarden has never been able to move. Nothing changed last patch about him.

Illusions has low HP.. iWarden absorb/reflect projectiles, but its weakness is that he die to melee attacks easily and that he can’t move.

Temporal Curtain does reflect. The problem is the wall is pretty low, so not everything will be reflected.

EsLafiel.4517:

I’m a sword/focus user.

However I am a tank/control build(with some support)

My phant almost always survive until their off cooldown.(really high hp and def)

Anyway for 1 you could summon it and then use tc to pull them into it.

For 2 I don’t got a problem with because it survive just fine with me.

For you in dgn through you should wait until the mobs is on someone and then summon it. If you looking for damage from it.

Plus defender phant is your friend, you not tank build so it might not work any where near as well.

However for me it last 15+ secs, with a 24 sec cooldown. So got less then 10 secs cooldown for me and it halfs everyone damage done to them.

Also works for your other phant and so they keeps them alive like crazy.

Also if traited ya phant keep regen/protection on 100% of the time(as well as you).

This may not work for you since you not tank build.

However for me I can ram a mob of 5 against a wall, and then summon a defender/bersker/warden and they never die and I get like 0 damage done on me(talking about dgn mobs even) With the reflex and so on.

Lastly the tc is fk up, it will be fix hopefully one day.

however for now I would not use it when it a life and death type of time.

Because you cant trust it.

Thanks for the reply.

My most recent Focus build used the iDefender. Could you tell me what your stats normally hover around? I want to see where mine lies in respect to an actual tank build. (I hope that I didn’t imply my build was designed to work as a glass cannon.)

I know that the delay isn’t as significant of an issue when my target is already being attacked, but most of the players I’ve fought with use ranged attacks, so my target oftentimes moves away from the iWarden before it attacks. It helps when I’m already fighting it at close-range, but the limp-away-to-totally-dodge-attack scenario still happens somewhat frequently.

Qelris.6901:

iWarden has never been able to move. Nothing changed last patch about him.

Illusions has low HP.. iWarden absorb/reflect projectiles, but its weakness is that he die to melee attacks easily and that he can’t move.

Temporal Curtain does reflect. The problem is the wall is pretty low, so not everything will be reflected.

1. The patch cripples his effectiveness because 0.5-1 sec is long enough for even a Crippled target to “dodge” the attack. I don’t know whether or not you’ve used the Focus, but before the patch it would be possible to summon the Phantasm on a non-stationary target and cause X amount of damage where X>0.

2. The advantages of the iWarden are:
(i) multi-hit, if successful
(ii) multi-target, if successful
(iii) blocks or reflects projectiles during its attack
The disadvantages of the iWarden are:
(i) its initial attack will usually fail unless the target is stationary (i.e. never moves, or is engaged in combat with another melee character, not ranged), because of the delay
(ii) usually will only attack 0-4 times when if summoned around multiple targets, because of the delay
(iii) will not pursue target
(iv) standard Phantasm weaknesses (low health, summons can fail and go into full cooldown, etc.)

1. and #2 rarely/never occurred until the most recent patch.

3. Before the patch, I was able to use Temporal Curtain to reflect those rocks that giant Wurms throw. Now, I can’t even block arrows from a Grawl or Son of Svanir.
Has anyone noticed any sort of change with this mechanic?

Icas.3860:

Qelris.6901:

iWarden has never been able to move. Nothing changed last patch about him.

Illusions has low HP.. iWarden absorb/reflect projectiles, but its weakness is that he die to melee attacks easily and that he can’t move.

Temporal Curtain does reflect. The problem is the wall is pretty low, so not everything will be reflected.

1. The patch cripples his effectiveness because 0.5-1 sec is long enough for even a Crippled target to “dodge” the attack. I don’t know whether or not you’ve used the Focus, but before the patch it would be possible to summon the Phantasm on a non-stationary target and cause X amount of damage where X>0.

3. Before the patch, I was able to use Temporal Curtain to reflect those rocks that giant Wurms throw. Now, I can’t even block arrows from a Grawl or Son of Svanir.
Has anyone noticed any sort of change with this mechanic?

Yes, I’ve been using focus. This is my build below.
(For most pve, otherwise I swap a few things)
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQRAsc7dlwzqqHVTmGa9IiJFEHFekittencleYb82FC;ToAqYMxIixGjLGZMrPGfsLYWA

I haven’t noticed any change other than maybe a slightly longer delay to attack.

Do you have Fury trait? I heard that trait was bypassing a change that was made in BWE and now the change is applied to the trait, which might be why you don’t see iWarden immediatly attack anymore.

my advice is: never get married with a weapon set.

I allways carry all the weapons a Mesmer can use, yes, even torch xD and I will pick whatever fits the fight, for moving bosses ranged phantasms are the best so staff + sword/pistol win, but if you have a pretty static boss Focus all the way, also for clearing mobs Focus is great together with staff or GS… oh and never, NEVER summon your phantasms 1st, since they have this delay for the 1st attack you gotta distract the target 1st

I use sword/focus as well, 0/20/0/20/30 with a mix of knight’s and valkyrie armor/trinkets. Blade Training, Deceptive Evasion, Glamour Mastery, Warden’s Feedback, Precise Wrack, Dazzling Glamours, Illusionary Persona. Slotted Bllink, Null Field, Feedback.

In PvE 1v1 I usually prevent iWarden from dying before pulling off its attack by opening with Illusionary Leap first. If it’s a melee mob, cast Temporal Curtain just outside its aggro range and cast Leap while standing on it, giving both of us retaliation. The clone can take a hit or two while I summon iWarden immediately afterwards, and then either swap with clone to immobilise to keep in range of iWarden or dodge roll in for another clone. At this point the aggro is usually on me, not warden, so place myself slightly away from the Warden so that the mob’s sweeping attack doesn’t hit it and use Blurred Frenzy. Or stand close to it anyway for the regen bonus. Then dodge backwards for another clone and run back in for a shatter, maybe pop Diversion afterwards during its attack motion if it’s still alive so I don’t take hits. Switch to other weapon set to use while skills are on cooldown, whatever I feel like. Currently a staff but thinking of changing it to scepter/sword since mobs that survive that combo are most of the time tough ones like veterans, and scepter/sword is fantastic for duelling tough mobs/buying time for cooldowns.
For ranged mob you can just open with iWarden, and laugh as they hit themselves to death.

For groups of mobs, I open with Temporal Curtain in front of the ranged ones and hope it works this time(it seems to work best when placed right where they are standing), lure the angry melee mobs chasing me to the ranged ones by dodging in and gather them into one area, cast iWarden and pop feedback while casting. Dazzling Glamours blind enemies in the field so iWarden manages to survive a good 5~8 seconds as it gets its attack off, with a nice ethereal combo field to go with it. Dodge roll or cast Leap for clone and a free chaos armor, pop Blurred Frenzy and shatter. Insta-dead group with maybe a few stragglers suffering from confusing bolts and massive bleeding from iWarden’s hits =B. Using Feedback also provides protection from those pesky ranged mobs that you may have not had the time to lure the mobs into.

Of course things don’t always go as planned, such as when I get pulled away from my Warden(noooooooooooooooo) by Risen Putrifiers or knocked down by other hard-hitting mobs, and in these cases you just have to remember to keep the aggro on you, not the warden until it gets its first attack off and always lure the mobs near the warden if they move away chasing you. I usually keep Blink on my skill slot and it works wonderfully well in such cases, and Illusionary Persona is simply fantastic for those ‘oh crap!’ situations.

I should try switching it out for Defender though, never thought about that. That one can take quite a few hits and will provide great defense for your iWarden, and I can see how it’ll fit well into focus builds.

Qelris.6901:

Icas.3860:

Qelris.6901:

iWarden has never been able to move. Nothing changed last patch about him.

Illusions has low HP.. iWarden absorb/reflect projectiles, but its weakness is that he die to melee attacks easily and that he can’t move.

Temporal Curtain does reflect. The problem is the wall is pretty low, so not everything will be reflected.

1. The patch cripples his effectiveness because 0.5-1 sec is long enough for even a Crippled target to “dodge” the attack. I don’t know whether or not you’ve used the Focus, but before the patch it would be possible to summon the Phantasm on a non-stationary target and cause X amount of damage where X>0.

3. Before the patch, I was able to use Temporal Curtain to reflect those rocks that giant Wurms throw. Now, I can’t even block arrows from a Grawl or Son of Svanir.
Has anyone noticed any sort of change with this mechanic?

Yes, I’ve been using focus. This is my build below.
(For most pve, otherwise I swap a few things)
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQRAsc7dlwzqqHVTmGa9IiJFEHFekittencleYb82FC;ToAqYMxIixGjLGZMrPGfsLYWA

I haven’t noticed any change other than maybe a slightly longer delay to attack.

Do you have Fury trait? I heard that trait was bypassing a change that was made in BWE and now the change is applied to the trait, which might be why you don’t see iWarden immediatly attack anymore.

The link to your build would not load properly. I tried to salvage the URL, but your Trait layout was incomplete, so I can’t assume that what loaded on my screen was even partially your build.

I have been using the Fury trait. I just deactivated it and did not notice any change in the iWarden. Since I am somewhat new, I am unaware of what change was made in BWE (though I realise that is not your responsibility).

korelg.7862:

my advice is: never get married with a weapon set.

I allways carry all the weapons a Mesmer can use, yes, even torch xD and I will pick whatever fits the fight, for moving bosses ranged phantasms are the best so staff + sword/pistol win, but if you have a pretty static boss Focus all the way, also for clearing mobs Focus is great together with staff or GS… oh and never, NEVER summon your phantasms 1st, since they have this delay for the 1st attack you gotta distract the target 1st

Yeah, I agree. My equipment set is incomplete (I don’t have many Exotics yet, and one of my weapons is even in the lvl50’s range.) I usually change my Utility Skills and weapons to suit what I’m facing, but certain Traits work better for certain weapon types, so I’m looking for a Trait tree in terms of build over anything else.

I don’t really have anything against the Staff; it’s just not my favourite style of gameplay, so I’d rather not be using it as my core weapon. I actually tried Greatsword a while ago and I didn’t really enjoy it. (I prefer the Staff.)

ddoi.9264:

I use sword/focus as well, 0/20/0/20/30 with a mix of knight’s and valkyrie armor/trinkets. Blade Training, Deceptive Evasion, Glamour Mastery, Warden’s Feedback, Precise Wrack, Dazzling Glamours, Illusionary Persona. Slotted Bllink, Null Field, Feedback.

In PvE 1v1 I usually prevent iWarden from dying before pulling off its attack by opening with Illusionary Leap first. If it’s a melee mob, cast Temporal Curtain just outside its aggro range and cast Leap while standing on it, giving both of us retaliation. The clone can take a hit or two while I summon iWarden immediately afterwards, and then either swap with clone to immobilise to keep in range of iWarden or dodge roll in for another clone. At this point the aggro is usually on me, not warden, so place myself slightly away from the Warden so that the mob’s sweeping attack doesn’t hit it and use Blurred Frenzy. Or stand close to it anyway for the regen bonus. Then dodge backwards for another clone and run back in for a shatter, maybe pop Diversion afterwards during its attack motion if it’s still alive so I don’t take hits. Switch to other weapon set to use while skills are on cooldown, whatever I feel like. Currently a staff but thinking of changing it to scepter/sword since mobs that survive that combo are most of the time tough ones like veterans, and scepter/sword is fantastic for duelling tough mobs/buying time for cooldowns.
For ranged mob you can just open with iWarden, and laugh as they hit themselves to death.

For groups of mobs, I open with Temporal Curtain in front of the ranged ones and hope it works this time(it seems to work best when placed right where they are standing), lure the angry melee mobs chasing me to the ranged ones by dodging in and gather them into one area, cast iWarden and pop feedback while casting. Dazzling Glamours blind enemies in the field so iWarden manages to survive a good 5~8 seconds as it gets its attack off, with a nice ethereal combo field to go with it. Dodge roll or cast Leap for clone and a free chaos armor, pop Blurred Frenzy and shatter. Insta-dead group with maybe a few stragglers suffering from confusing bolts and massive bleeding from iWarden’s hits =B. Using Feedback also provides protection from those pesky ranged mobs that you may have not had the time to lure the mobs into.

Of course things don’t always go as planned, such as when I get pulled away from my Warden(noooooooooooooooo) by Risen Putrifiers or knocked down by other hard-hitting mobs, and in these cases you just have to remember to keep the aggro on you, not the warden until it gets its first attack off and always lure the mobs near the warden if they move away chasing you. I usually keep Blink on my skill slot and it works wonderfully well in such cases, and Illusionary Persona is simply fantastic for those ‘oh crap!’ situations.

I should try switching it out for Defender though, never thought about that. That one can take quite a few hits and will provide great defense for your iWarden, and I can see how it’ll fit well into focus builds.

Pre-patch, I’d either start with Illusionary Leap or start with iWarden and then leap, preferably the former because Illusionary Leap doesn’t work on slight inclines, so I usually end up wasting it. Now, I start with the Leap and hope that it works; if it doesn’t, I summon iWarden and it fails miserably. Then I just attack it directly. (Just feels like my attack pattern are become less versatile.)

Anyways, what you outlined is more or less a standard attack pattern for me. However, I usually switch to Scepter/Pistol instead; I use the non-Phantasm skill, then summon the iDuelist, put on Confusion, and finally switch back to Sword/Focus. I generally prefer iDefender over Feedback, though that might change because I’m having issues with Focus reflection.

I forgot that i could use the Temporal Curtain as a Combo Field for Leaping. I guess that I’ll do that now.

How does it feel to not have Fury on your Phantasms?

Yes, the bugginess of Leap and now phantasm summoning issues does get on my nerves sometimes, so usually I go with the better safe than sorry approach of getting as close as possible before Leaping(waaaay under its range) or luring the mob to even ground before I start the rotation. Opening with my staff weapon switch works in such cases, for the warlock to aggro and some chaos storm to buff the warden.

I’ve never really noticed the difference of Fury on my phantasms really. Maintenance Oils and food give me enough precision to support my armor/trinket setup. Prepatch I was running GS, and iBerserker got enough critical hits to be satisfied though it was fantastic with fury and I traited for it obviously. Warden still does good damage without fury, and with my moderate precision it gets enough critical hits. More importantly I like being tanky and useful even when my rotation fails(a boss chasing some other player around for example…warden’s not gonna hit that one much, if at all), so I prefer the extra 2 seconds cooldown reduction on my blurred frenzy than fury on my warden.

I use sword/focus in full zerkers gear with staff or GS for most pulls. The trick with moving mobs is using sword 3 then iwarden then sword 3 again to immobilize. Your playing with fire at times, but its all about timing. I’ve had great success with it! Sword/focus is super strong when traited, it brings lots of support.

Actually, I noticed something very odd when I was playing yesterday in WvW. I summoned my warden on a fairly close, moving target (probably around 300) and immediately after appearing, the warden ran up to him (couldn’t have been more than a second of movement), then started swinging his arms around as usual and didn’t move from that point again.

Part of me wonders whether during that delay that’s new from the last patch, there are some circumstances under which the phantasm will move before attacking. Weird, maybe even a one-off, but it’s my weapon set of choice in wvw so hopefully I’ll get the chance to try again many times.

I play a very funky but absoluty bulletproof GS/S+F build (20/0/15/30/5) for survival and damage in higher Fractals (with mainly berserker gear+some defensive trinkets). While I made a cookie-cutter build guide here, I never get tiered of trying new strategies and playstyles. The focus can be a incredible useful tool combined with a sword, so don’t give up on it.
While I use the GS for ranged and moving targets, S+F is perfect for tanked or stationary mobs.
If they fix our bugs, things will get a bit easier though (phantasms no longer take a coffee break before their first attack etc.)…

I have 24khp(sometimes lower/sometimes higher)
3.1k armor(a bit higher)
(2.8k damage-3.2k damage)
Healing 700(wanna get to at lest 1k, still working on it)

I change between 11 utilities depending on what I am doing, but for normal mobs defender is almost always out, he only goes off if need to focus heavly on reflex skills are on certain boss’s.

Ps you can pull and then immb guys inside the warden or instead just use it as cover. So you get about a 3sec of reflection around you.

Since a lot of long range will Ignore warden, I sometimes summon them and then leave them in random places so when they start spinning later I can roll into them for protection.

@ddoi.9264

I had always gone for Fury over Illusionary Persona or whatever it’s called, but I prefer my new build much more. (More or less based off of the one you provided.) I find iDefender really useful, but I’m considering switching it for Signet of Illusions.

I switch to Scepter/Sword now, since the iDuelist wouldn’t have Fury, and the off-hand Sword still gets the cool-down reduction.

@Fallos.6408

I still haven’t tried any WvW yet.

@vutak.3186

I actually noticed that today when I was testing my new Build. I used iWarden on a normal PvE Wolf; the Wolf moved before iWarden started to attack, but then iWarden chased it. This isn’t the first time this has happened to me. I assumed that it had to do with the surrounding terrain (obstacles and incline), but today that definitely wasn’t the case.

@Kaiyanwan.8521

A lot of people use Greatsword as their main weapon, but I just don’t enjoy it that much. Do you feel that the Staff is still decent against moving targets?

@EsLafiel.4517

Thanks for these stats.

I sometimes set iWardens up in random places, but then I feel like my damage output decreases too much. If I’m fighting a stationary target, I like to stagger the timing on the iWardens so that there’s projectile reflection as frequently as possible.

Icas.3860:

The link to your build would not load properly. I tried to salvage the URL, but your Trait layout was incomplete, so I can’t assume that what loaded on my screen was even partially your build.

That was weird. Now?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQRAsc7dlwzqqHVTmGaNJi5DE3JFK3yhWQpH2GvdhA;ToAqYMxIixGjLGZMrPGfsLYWA