Guild Wars 2

Who better to ask than the mesmers themselves. To start, I am in no way saying your class is cheap or op because I know how it feels when people say your class is a n00b class when they havent even rolled with it. That being said I had a scenario multiple times recently in wvw against a mesmer and I was hoping someone can tell me what the hell kept happening. I am a thief (looks for pitchforks) and kept having a 1v1 with this same mesmer over and over. The win loss was like 6-3 with me having the 6 by the end of the day but none of those wins were easy:

This mesmer had a staff at first(also rolled torch and a scepter, if thats what shoots those pretty purple balls) and would, of course, role out the clones that would projectile attack me, so after a but I figured daggerstorm was the best counter, which it was, but it wasnt the solution. Now I am a stealth heavy thief, not glass cannon, but stealth heavy nonetheless with daggers. So when i stealthed off of a clone, it would shatter and hurt me and apply confusion. And these were clones that looked like the player not white versions of the player. Some of them also ran right at me. When I would be right on the mesmer, they would do some trick where they vanished replaced by a legion of clones where they once stood, and reappeared a few feet in back. Once again, these clones hurt (not only shot at me but when I accidently killed them they blew up) and applied confusion. When I applied basilisk venom for petrafying and stole, they would get that block buff somehow (they seemed to always have this purple orb around them). And their final trick, it was a simple aoe they placed at their feet (smart move on their part) that once again, hurt and gave me free confusion for a low price of free.

Now that win loss shows nine battles, there were really like 13 but I had to retreat four times due to unhappiness with my conditions and being turned into a bird-_-(yet still had one of the best retreats in the game LOL) So in summary….what was happening? Should I have been more patient in that fight and let her walk out of her aoe circle or waited for her to put herself in a vulnerable position? Help would be nice

Well for one, whenever you see bunch of the same mesmer run at you, its always a shatter, ive heard that the best way to avoid that is to run at them and roll to dodge the shatter effect.

Some mesmers also trait their illusions to deal damage when killed, so i would suggest to kill illusions from distance, this also prevents them from shattering on you.

Easiest way to actually kill a mesmer is to know who the actual player is, mesmers are not the most tankiest characters in the game, but they do have great survivability if built right.
Phantoms are the easiest to notice, since they are purple and don’t look like the mesmer.
Illusions are slightly harder to see, but they do differ from the original.
Illusions as far as i know, do not carry an off-hand weapon, they NEVER strafe or dodge. They only move in straight at you to get to the range.

Scepter/Torch mesmers usually deals a lot of confusion, as its one of the best properties of a scepter (and i think torch phantom dealt confusion as well)

Never hit a mesmer when they use Chaos Armor (the purple ball around them) as it can give you different conditions when you hit it, including confusion.

If you are against a mesmer with Sword/pistol or Sword/Sword, always dodge the Illusionary Leap (the fast moving illusion), because the mesmer can swap to it, immobilize you and start their Blurred Frenzy, which deals a lot of damage.

Always stay close to a mesmer with greatsword, because greatswords deal more damage depending on how far away you are.

Those are some tips i thought randomly that should hopefully help you a bit, can’t write anything in-depth right now because im at school.

thanks alot anyway!

A#1 learn to spot the real mesmer. Good mesmers practive moving like their clones and generally being hard to spot. Clones never do anything besides 1 attack, so look for any other animations including skills/dodge rolls. Call target on the real mes when you find him, and re-target as needed. It’s helpful and good practice.

Practice watching your conditions and their boons. If they have a staff expect retaliation/confusion. As the above poster said, it’s generally bad to hit them with chaos armor up, but a good mes can have it up a lot so you have to know when to apply pressure.

Best thing you can do is try one for a while and get a feel for it.

mesmers have very good combat mobility .. so if he was cond.. mesmer and seem like yes with those weapons his basic tactic is keeping staff clones and fighting on range .. while u as d/d thief prefer close combat … prob easiest thing u can do is swap to p/d and simply kill him on range … those traits which gives condicions on clones death doesnt work on range kill … and last thing is when u see clones are running to u .. dodge into them not away
PS: try to not attack when u have confusion … its base duration is only 3s

cheers Xixsa

Shortbow is your friend.

clones dont dodge, clones dont walk side ways or backwards. clones usually dont have chaos armor, unless he used chaos storm and leap. clones dont deal much damage unless they stop attacking and walk to you, thats a shatter so dodge it asap.

since ur stealth heavy build, u must have condition removal in stealth every 3 seconds and regn. try to use shortbow skills while in stealth or caltrops since it doesnt break stealth, gaining stealth of his clones is the best option however wait until ur condition is cured before u attack.

best way for condition thief is to put as much bleeds and poison as u can, wait for the mesmer 2 use their heal then use thiefs guild and steal to buff up them up. never use daggerstrom fighting a condition mesmer, as he can just use confusion on u therefor u end up killing urself.

when fighting 1v1 always use thiefs guild and steal after, for coniditon build thiefs its a must as a burst can come from it which all condition classes may lack as their dmg is of a sustained nature

Now I am a stealth heavy thief, not glass cannon, but stealth heavy nonetheless with daggers.

Your build is probably the issue. Don’t run “stealth heavy” with d/d. With that set you gotta go full gank. Those strange hybrid builds are always very easy to defeat as mesmer because they can neither take or deal damage.
If you want to spam stealth, go either p/d or s/d.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Now I am a stealth heavy thief, not glass cannon, but stealth heavy nonetheless with daggers.

Your build is probably the issue. Don’t run “stealth heavy” with d/d. With that set you gotta go full gank. Those strange hybrid builds are always very easy to defeat as mesmer because they can neither take or deal damage.
If you want to spam stealth, go either p/d or s/d.

Its not hybrid, it’s a legitimate build. I mean, damaging the mesmer wasn’t the problem (7k backstab on top of cloak and dagger and mug) it was staying on top of her without taking so much conditions in.
And thanks for the advice guys, spotting the mesmer wasnt the problem for me they gave me an easy time spotting the real one, but nonetheless, i appreciate the info. I’ll try thieves guild for some extra dps

so wait, you won 2/3 of the fights, and you are complaining that you need help fighting mesmers?

seems to me that he should be here asking advice, rather than you lol

Ok, the block is a weapon ability on the scepter. Offhand sword also has a block. They knew what they were doing, that’s for sure, because it takes a lot of practice to do what you described.

The cycle of a thief goes stealth, pause, attack. A good Mesmer will use the scepter or sword block during that pause, that way the thief is forced to attack into the block. To counter this, try changing your rhythm. Attack way faster after stealthing, or even don’t attack until you see the block (only lasts a second or 2) go back down.

The clones were exploding when you killed them. There are 3 different ‘on clone death’ traits. This means when you kill the clones, it hurts. To avoid this, try to cnd off of either the real player or phantasms, as the phantasms won’t explode.

If all the clones start running at you, it’s a shatter. Dodge into the clones, not away from them.

Don’t attack the purple bubble, that’s chaos armor. Look it up on the wiki to see the effects.

Don’t worry about the moa elite too much. No good Mesmer will actually run with that, not even for a 1v1, it’s just dumb and op.

As someone mentioned, shortbow from range is your friend. The bouncing projectile will rapidly kill illusions. Just make sure you stay far enough away that they don’t explode on you.

Edit: the aoe you mentioned. What did it look like?

I can give you a few more tips.

Know your enemy! Mesmers that primarily use a staff mostly likely have rabid gear. I would say it was a given since the guy also used a scepter and torch. Both are good at pumping out confusion. Rabid mesmers have high precision, toughness and condition damage. The staff is also great defensive weapon because of Phase Retreat (a get out of jail free card that spawns a clone), Chaos Armor (the purple bubble that gives you conditions and mesmers boons when you hit them) and Chaos Storm (an aoe field that sounds like a hurricane screaming and does the same as Chaos Armor without hits). Scepters are designed to spawn a clone on every 3rd auto attack, has a block and a channeled ray that gives confusion. I don’t know much about the torch but I do know it has a stealth ability that ends with a fire blast. It can be pretty nasty if used in an ethereal field while you’re standing in it.

Now for tactics. I want you to know that I’m not bragging when I say this. If you don’t have consistent condition removal, don’t even bother fighting a rabid mesmer! The staff’s auto attack and staff clones can stack burn and vulnerability. If the mesmer took the Sharper Images trait, their high precision will stack bleed as well. Any skill they use with the word “Chaos” in front of it pretty much throws the book at you while buffing them.

And then there’s confusion!

Always remember that you have a great chance of getting away. In fact, you’re safest tactic is to run. While Mesmer have great “in battle” mobility, they are snails out of it, save for a few tricks an/or distinct rune setups.

You can expect rabid mesmers to either be all over the battle or pretending to be one of their clones. Learn to recognize which is the real one and you’ve already won half the battle.

Against this build, direct damage isn’t going to help much. If you can’t burst them down in the first few seconds, expect a long, drawn out fight. Your best weapon is, ironically, condition damage. Toughness can’t do jack against it and it will force the mesmer to either heal often or burn their condition removals. Most mesmers powers have a “good for me, bad for you” theme so if you force them to use it solely for defense, you limit what can be thrown at you.

Never fight a rabid mesmer in melee range! The staff’s auto-attack is slow but it bounces between you and them. This can be traited to bounce even more. Clones have bouncing auto attacks too. If that wasn’t bad enough, shatters are almost impossible to dodge if you’re standing right next to illusions because they are pretty much instant-cast. There is an animation but clones can blow even before it’s halfway done. All shatter damage is front-loaded too. The first to go boom will do the most damage to you. If you stay at range you can avoid most of this and you’ll see the clones kamikaze attack from a mile away.

Another thing you can do is toss out blinds whenever they are off cooldown. Anet, in their infinite wisdom, decided that blinds, blocks and loss of line-of-sight should be able to block clones from spawning and put the skill on a full cooldown. This won’t stop mesmers from popping out more clones than Kamino but it will slow them down.

Be very weary of when you use daggerstorm. Some mesmers will pop out clones excessively, just to get you to use it. They are looking to cast Feedback on you (it’s the dome that forms around you and hums). This reflects all projectiles and WILL reflect every single dagger you toss out! If you can break the daggerstorm animation, do so. If not, find a way to use retaliation before Daggerstorm. Due to weird game mechanics, that will cause all the hits to hit the mesmer.

Last but not least, when you stealth, immediately change direction. Way too many people make the mistake of traveling in a straight line and thinking they are safe just because they are invisible. This can be predicted and AoEs can be laid in front of you.

Morfedel.4165:

so wait, you won 2/3 of the fights, and you are complaining that you need help fighting mesmers?

seems to me that he should be here asking advice, rather than you lol

ha i had to retreat a couple times. I was here for less self destructive ways to take these guys on. Those fights were by no means easy XD kitten moas…..

And thanks for the info Pyroatheist and Crossplay, will keep that in mind. I still need to learn that not all battles can be won so I may stay away from these guys lol

EDIT: Pyroatheist, the aoe was just a plain circle with slight purple lighting coming from it, she cast it when she had staff out. It didnt do much besides confusion and minor damage but that not much adds up over time

Crossplay.2067:

Be very weary of when you use daggerstorm. Some mesmers will pop out clones excessively, just to get you to use it. They are looking to cast Feedback on you (it’s the dome that forms around you and hums). This reflects all projectiles and WILL reflect every single dagger you toss out! If you can break the daggerstorm animation, do so. If not, find a way to use retaliation before Daggerstorm. Due to weird game mechanics, that will cause all the hits to hit the mesmer.
.

i wouldnt worry about feedback while in daggerstorm as daggerstorm reflects projectiles itselfs, having feedback on it would just mean that projectiles will keep bouncing. however confusion is what u need 2 worry about while in daggerstorm + condition dmg which will come from killing clones

The build sounds familiar but without more info, I can’t give you a correct answer.
Question 1: how high did confusion stacks get?
2: Were you blinded when you entered the fields the Mesmer casted?
3: Did the Mesmer shatter often or wait for clones to be killed?
4: Did you have bleed on you constantly?
5: Did the Mesmer use the torch to gain distance away from you or to apply a burn&blind?

Ctrl + click to help keep track of the real Mez. Our clones will not show food buffs etc or lvl ie 80. I play a condition Mez and the only real protection against this build is to have lots of Vit. Toughness vs a burst/shatter Mez.

Daddydeath.9371:

Crossplay.2067:

Be very weary of when you use daggerstorm. Some mesmers will pop out clones excessively, just to get you to use it. They are looking to cast Feedback on you (it’s the dome that forms around you and hums). This reflects all projectiles and WILL reflect every single dagger you toss out! If you can break the daggerstorm animation, do so. If not, find a way to use retaliation before Daggerstorm. Due to weird game mechanics, that will cause all the hits to hit the mesmer.
.

i wouldnt worry about feedback while in daggerstorm as daggerstorm reflects projectiles itselfs, having feedback on it would just mean that projectiles will keep bouncing. however confusion is what u need 2 worry about while in daggerstorm + condition dmg which will come from killing clones

This is not correct. Projectile reflects will not reflect reflected projectiles. A projectile can be reflected 1 time. After that 1 reflection, the projectiles can no longer be reflected again, and will simply ignore additional projectile reflections. Additionally, if the field that reflected them is a combo field, the reflected projectiles will take on the attributes of a finisher of that field.

@RedSpectrum: I’m going to do a bit of a quick guide on the different aoe fields a mesmer can make, and what they do.

What you described sounds like chaos storm, staff 5. It is a purplish area with lightning in it, and has a really distinctive sound, ask a mesmer to cast one for you. It causes random conditions on enemies in it and random boons on allies. However, it will not cause confusion unless combined with a projectile finisher.
Poison: 2 s (168 damage)
Weakness: 2 s
Chilled: 1 s
Daze: 1 s

Another set of aoes are called glamours. This includes feedback (purple dome reflecting projectiles), veil (line aoe), and null field. Null field is a circular aoe on the ground that has a purple wall around the edge of it that pulses on and off. Null field removes conditions/boons from allies/enemies with every pulse.

Now, glamours can be traited so that you gain a stack of confusion every time you enter or exit the area. If you seem to be getting confusion when you walk over the area, they probably have that trait and you need to avoid crossing the boundary of the glamours.

When push comes to shove, however, it is extremely difficult to really understand what a mesmer is doing without having played a mesmer. I strongly advise you to grab a mesmer and go play it in sPvP. This will give you a chance to recognize what the skills look like, what they do, and how they are used.

Samiell.1259:

The build sounds familiar but without more info, I can’t give you a correct answer.
Question 1: how high did confusion stacks get?
2: Were you blinded when you entered the fields the Mesmer casted?
3: Did the Mesmer shatter often or wait for clones to be killed?
4: Did you have bleed on you constantly?
5: Did the Mesmer use the torch to gain distance away from you or to apply a burn&blind?

highest ive had was 10
blinds were had
clones shattered upon death, or ran to me then shattered
bleed as well as vuln or weakness i cant remember that one
i believe for distance as they would replace themselves with clones and reappear a few feet behind their army

Sounds to me like one of 2 builds. Both condition damaged based one used sceptor or a sword with torch off hand and staff as a defensive weapon. This build will blind with every field layer down and can stack up to 15 stacks of confusion if you let the Mesmer cast the purple beam from sceptor. This build will have quite high hp as it takes a while to whidle people down. The counter to this build is range, dodge roll into clones that are running at you (that is a shatter command from the Mesmer) and stealth.
The second possibility is condition damage as well but using the staff as the main weapon. Sceptor would be a bad choice for this particular build but that’s neither here nor there. Rarely shatters and if this build does it will only be to apply confusion. Mass amounts of bleeds a steady stack of 15. Most of the clones will be casting from staff and will look identacle to the Mesmer. There are 2 options for hp here. mid hp (18k ish) mid toughness or low hp (16k ish) max toughness. Defense for you here is lots of vit and tough with same strat as above for avoiding damage.
To tell you the truth here, if its the second build, it’s designed to outlast burst classes. I really can’t remember the last time I was killed by a single player while rolling the second build Mesmer. I honestly hope your in my WvW bracket. I’d love to dual.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Daddydeath.9371:

Crossplay.2067:

Be very weary of when you use daggerstorm. Some mesmers will pop out clones excessively, just to get you to use it. They are looking to cast Feedback on you (it’s the dome that forms around you and hums). This reflects all projectiles and WILL reflect every single dagger you toss out! If you can break the daggerstorm animation, do so. If not, find a way to use retaliation before Daggerstorm. Due to weird game mechanics, that will cause all the hits to hit the mesmer.
.

i wouldnt worry about feedback while in daggerstorm as daggerstorm reflects projectiles itselfs, having feedback on it would just mean that projectiles will keep bouncing. however confusion is what u need 2 worry about while in daggerstorm + condition dmg which will come from killing clones

This is not correct. Projectile reflects will not reflect reflected projectiles. A projectile can be reflected 1 time. After that 1 reflection, the projectiles can no longer be reflected again, and will simply ignore additional projectile reflections. Additionally, if the field that reflected them is a combo field, the reflected projectiles will take on the attributes of a finisher of that field.

I dont think ur correct, easiest way to test this is bonus frac which has mobs that reflect projectiles, shoot something at them it reflects back, have a reflect projectile on urself and u will see them bounce back, am not sure on the number of bounces but its more than one or two for sure, feel free to tests it.

Daddydeath.9371:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Daddydeath.9371:

Crossplay.2067:

Be very weary of when you use daggerstorm. Some mesmers will pop out clones excessively, just to get you to use it. They are looking to cast Feedback on you (it’s the dome that forms around you and hums). This reflects all projectiles and WILL reflect every single dagger you toss out! If you can break the daggerstorm animation, do so. If not, find a way to use retaliation before Daggerstorm. Due to weird game mechanics, that will cause all the hits to hit the mesmer.
.

i wouldnt worry about feedback while in daggerstorm as daggerstorm reflects projectiles itselfs, having feedback on it would just mean that projectiles will keep bouncing. however confusion is what u need 2 worry about while in daggerstorm + condition dmg which will come from killing clones

This is not correct. Projectile reflects will not reflect reflected projectiles. A projectile can be reflected 1 time. After that 1 reflection, the projectiles can no longer be reflected again, and will simply ignore additional projectile reflections. Additionally, if the field that reflected them is a combo field, the reflected projectiles will take on the attributes of a finisher of that field.

I dont think ur correct, easiest way to test this is bonus frac which has mobs that reflect projectiles, shoot something at them it reflects back, have a reflect projectile on urself and u will see them bounce back, am not sure on the number of bounces but its more than one or two for sure, feel free to tests it.

I actually noticed this, and they are the single exception to the rule. However, you can still see my rule work even in that fractal. When they reflect the reflected projectile, you can not block it with another reflect. It will hit you no matter what. Those mobs are, to my knowledge, the only things in the game that can ignore that rule.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Daddydeath.9371:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Daddydeath.9371:

Crossplay.2067:

Be very weary of when you use daggerstorm. Some mesmers will pop out clones excessively, just to get you to use it. They are looking to cast Feedback on you (it’s the dome that forms around you and hums). This reflects all projectiles and WILL reflect every single dagger you toss out! If you can break the daggerstorm animation, do so. If not, find a way to use retaliation before Daggerstorm. Due to weird game mechanics, that will cause all the hits to hit the mesmer.
.

i wouldnt worry about feedback while in daggerstorm as daggerstorm reflects projectiles itselfs, having feedback on it would just mean that projectiles will keep bouncing. however confusion is what u need 2 worry about while in daggerstorm + condition dmg which will come from killing clones

This is not correct. Projectile reflects will not reflect reflected projectiles. A projectile can be reflected 1 time. After that 1 reflection, the projectiles can no longer be reflected again, and will simply ignore additional projectile reflections. Additionally, if the field that reflected them is a combo field, the reflected projectiles will take on the attributes of a finisher of that field.

I dont think ur correct, easiest way to test this is bonus frac which has mobs that reflect projectiles, shoot something at them it reflects back, have a reflect projectile on urself and u will see them bounce back, am not sure on the number of bounces but its more than one or two for sure, feel free to tests it.

I actually noticed this, and they are the single exception to the rule. However, you can still see my rule work even in that fractal. When they reflect the reflected projectile, you can not block it with another reflect. It will hit you no matter what. Those mobs are, to my knowledge, the only things in the game that can ignore that rule.

Few times in wvw or spvp the same thing happened, it would be nice to get an answer from the dev, conforming the number of bounces is indeed one and sometimes it bugs or if it is more. in frac and spvp i counted the number of bounces to be at times from 2 to 3, and at times 1 to 2

Mesmer clones don’t have offhands, Boons, Titles. You can now instantly spot a mesmer clone from a real one.

When you see a sword mesmer point at you, dodge. You’ve just dodged their leaping strike and they can’t immobilize you. Stay moving, try to maintain swiftness to outrun shattering clones. If the Mesmer blinks ontop of you, dodge.

Ps. He’s right. A single projectile cannot be reflected more than once. Simple test with Staff Guardians with Wall of reflection.

You need to be very careful with confusion in WvW. In spvp it’s nerfed but in WvW even a couple of stacks will hit hard. Good chance you were fighting a confusion build with a Staff/Scepter/Torch combo. It’s going to be unavoidable if the mesmer is built for it.