Guild Wars 2

The ambush skill for gs is a joke.

The unique heal from mirage is just flat out worse than ether feast. Not even worth to be brought up in same conversation as well of eternity

Jaunt is frankly just frusterating because of its ridicilous range. Has limited use. Kinda value in power (infinitely less worth than grav well/moa tho)

Condi, power, tank; in all 3 of these archetypes you’re inferior to chrono in every signle way

the dodge mechanic is cool

honestly this is not even surprise .

that heal skill lol requires mes stand still 3s in same spot basically suicide .

and what helseth said is for pvp

for pve like raid and fractal its even worse

I think its obvious that the gs ambush is a joke, but the sword one isn’t much better honestly with that cast time.

I didn’t have time today to actually play a match after figuring out all the skills, so I can’t really comment on the heal, but the healing per pulse is pretty small. so I’m not surprised its not that great. Its an interesting concept for a heal skill.

Jaunt was underwhelming. Limited range, fairly small damage.

Even though I knew what to expect, it was weird to not move backwards when dodging. Will definitely take some getting used to for me, but that’s not a bad thing at all.

The symmetry between mirror images, axe, and infinite horizon is pretty kitten good right now, though truthfully due to the ammunition mechanic on axe 2 you don’t even need mirror images. It can load up a lot of confusion/torment pretty quickly, especially if you are taking mirrored axes. That said, its pretty telegraphed, and a channeled block could virtually eliminate that if it was timed right.

The utilities are fun, but all around meh. Crystal sands does ok-ish, but from my understanding it only does damage if the crystals hit someone? So a 20 second CD in order to really get a mirage mirror = 1 sec of mirage cloak out of it is underwhelming. Maybe change it to just deal the power damage to anyone standing inside the AoE, and then have the crystals just apply confusion if they hit a target?

The ambush is a nice skill.

Sand through glass is the only stunbreak mirage brings, and its on a 30 sec CD. I don’t know how I feel about that, as I don’t think its strong enough to replace blink. Maybe change the 1/2 sec evade to 1/2 mirage mirror? That would give synergy with infinite horizon (giving it some offensive options if you trait for it) and some of the defensive traits that mirage has (prot + regen on mirage cloak).

Mirage advance is cool. But without getting to play a match I can’t really get a feel for how useful it is.

One thing I would really like to see is to have ambush skills be unblockable. Either have a trait be changed to make them unblockable, or make our personal ambush skills unblockable (but the clone ones can be blocked). And buff the GS ambush skill substantially. It should be doing way more power damage, and then the clone version could deal less damage but possibly apply a stack of bleeding or something.

I’d also like to hammer this in whenever I see Mirage feedback:

Sword Clones that interrupt do NOT trigger interruption traits. Which is stupid. Don’t think they even trigger Daze traits.

Agree on gs ambush. Low power dmg only, long cast and no utility, making it even more useless for clones. It could have some util like boon rip or smthg.

Bad heal is bad.. Lacks burst, no bigger than ether feast and mirage mirror mechanic is bad even more when delayed.

Jaunt needs definitely more range 600 at least and then further number tweaking depending how anet wants this to be defensive or offensive. 2 condi clear or better dmg or even better range.

Mirage Mirror needs to shatter also when an enemy touches it, appling its effects no matter what range mirage is, like a dh trap. It also needs permanent lifetime until same util reused else where, repositioning it, again like a dh trap.

Trait line needs tuning, so much bad trait with no alternative that feels like we dont even know what to choose.

Deception trait has no cd reduction or other synergy utility with mirage concept. Smthg like 10 endurance restored. Clone production doesnt seem a problem on mirage, and definitely not if you açready have 2 up. Redundant.

Shards of Glass bad because mirrors are bad, very limited lifetime and only shatter when mirage touch them.

Mirage Mantle and Renewing Oasis not even merged would be a first pick. I risk to say even tri merged with Same for Riddle of Sand.

Speed of Sand could be at least 1s long. Feels short.

Detarget needs more testing but I feel like it have little impact.

Tldr: many lacking traits, deceptions are lackluster and cant be proper improved even when traited. Elite annoying range, lacking ambushes with no follow up synergy. Mirage Mirrors bad, dodfe mechamic good potential but poorly supported by the rest of the class.

To much is influx at the moment.

I gave all classes a short spin but gave none of them more than 10 minutes of an “ah intesrting, wierd, okay I guess that’s supposed to work that way”.

Mirage did not come out on top, by a long shot. Most fun was definately Holosmith (probably cause most straight forward), Weaver (elementalists will become even more insane in wvw) and Scourge.

Mirage seemed clunky though I will confess that this is likely be due to the missing dodge and having to get used to this. The ambush skill seemed meh, it basically triggers on your next autoattack or you miss it. With 1/2 to 3/4 of a second uptime there is barely any strategic play involved and it’s a simple damage increase.

Watched 30 minutes of helseths pvp antics. Seemed to me like he didn’t really make it work though that is to be expected with such a twitchy new build (as if we needed even more of that as mesmer, yay…). With some of the tankiness coming to the game Mirage seems super squishy at the moment. Maybe if decked in traiblazer or so, time will tell.

Pve wise I couldn’t get any practice on a golem in since they were all swarmed. The condition application did seem quite high so maybe a meta damage build might be for us raid wise.

The utilities while interesting and fun (and sort of a new mechanic, unlike most classes which got copy-paste stuff from other classes) did seem underwehlming. Works well enough since this way we can take SoI for raids I guess relieving pressure on boonshare somewhat.

All in all I’m on an okayish vibe, but mostly because I feel like chrono is quite a strong elite support wise. Our new elite is definately not the new fancy toy as some of the others might be. Guess our best hope is for it to bring lots of damage to the table or else it’s definately not meta.

EDIT: forgot to add firebrand and it’s bascially mantras on steroids, nice that guardian gets a mesmer mechanic after almost 5 years just in good.

I agree that mirrors should last longer than they do. Lasting 10 seconds allows you to use them pretty leisurely, and allows you to setup a better play. Right now I don’t think they last nearly long enough.

Self deception seems pretty kitten, even for an adept trait. Mesmer has never had any problem getting clones out, so why did we get another kittenty clone generation trait? And why is this one so much more clunky than others? It has multiple requirements to it (needing to use both a specific skill type AND have exactly 2 illusions out. Compare that to core trait DE……) to share functionality of several traits we already have.

This trait needs to be changed pretty bad. Make it actually buff our deception skills. Could be as simple as just increasing their direct damage based on how many illusions we have out (say 15% per illusion?), or could be something along the lines of making ambush attacks unblockable? Or anything but what it currently is.

Mirage is so clunky its pulling my hair. The whole ambush mechanic so awkward. Mirror cloak is too short, and your ambush has a freaking ICD on top of using your endurance. The mirrors spawns retrain your movement and Jaunt is a real pain to use. Most other elite specs are fluid and pleasant to use but Mirage is a trainwreck. Half the time your ambush doesn’t even cast because XYZ (you dodged too early, you canceled your auto, you’re suddenly not facing your target after you teleported and god knows what else…).

3/10.

meanwhile in pvp map chat : mirages have 90% evading frame
me : thats impossible
people : link the duel line trait which gives vigor on crit , see vigor , more dodge

be ready to get nerfed from trash tier guys . coz once you open map chat you will find there are many people mindlessly followed wp comment : mirage is over tuned

Ye mirage Mirrors need to work like the bomb from evasive powder keg in addition to how ir functions. It has offensive properties, minor dmg and weakness, why shouldnt it ALSO trigger when enemies touch it?

musu.9205:

meanwhile in pvp map chat : mirages have 90% evading frame
me : thats impossible
people : link the duel line trait which gives vigor on crit , see vigor , more dodge

be ready to get nerfed from trash tier guys . coz once you open map chat you will find there are many people mindlessly followed wp comment : mirage is over tuned

The mesmer problem has always been that it’s very strong against bad players. The mirage mechanics exacerbate this problem. Since the vast majority of players are utter trash in GW2, this leads to predictable complaint issues.

So much about this elite is extremely fun, but at the end of the day it’s just not strong enough. Nomad’s Endurance needs to go and be replaced by something like a 100% boost to clone damage so the “clones do damage now” idea actually means something.

ICD on Ambushes needs to disappear and the usage window be increased slightly to 2s.

Speed of Sand needs to be stronger; it’s a GM Minor even if it is a Minor. Instead of Superspeed it could give 1s Quickness, with a bonus 5s Alacrity on Phantasms to make up for the fact they can’t Ambush? Alternatively make Infinite Horizon the Minor and Speed of Sand a GM we can choose for the 1s Quickness on Cloak and Phantasm Alacrity buff…

The heal is bad but perhaps if it refreshed your Endurance it would be competitive with other options and fit in with the Mirage theme? Then you could at least buy some time for the pulses to work. A condition cleanse wouldn’t go amiss either in all honesty.

Jaunt is another fun but lacklustre skill, all it really needs is a 50% range boost and beefier damage scaling.

Just my thoughts…

Jaunt is good to spam clones with the Self-Deception trait, not necessarily for its utility/damage, Mirage has limited clone generation outside of ambush sword1 so you gotta take everything you can get.

I wish Axe2’s clone generation were a bit more reliable, it has a big window for error in its current iteration (you’ll miss it 90% of the time on a moving target, let alone dodging).

False Oasis looks good on paper (8k heal plus cloak if you stand still for its full duration), but in practice it’s harder to squeeze its full benefit. Cd is a bit too long imo.

I think the Mirage Mirrors are a bit of an annoying mechanic rather than something that feels fun.

Axe 3 detargetting is pointless when the enemy can just cleave everything down in 2 auto attacks anyway

musu.9205:

meanwhile in pvp map chat : mirages have 90% evading frame
me : thats impossible
people : link the duel line trait which gives vigor on crit , see vigor , more dodge

be ready to get nerfed from trash tier guys . coz once you open map chat you will find there are many people mindlessly followed wp comment : mirage is over tuned

You’re telling me that a high burst class with dodge mechanics has a high win rate against mediocre and bad players? No say it aint so.

Mesmer back at launch was the absolute same and for a long time was and still is the primary class people whine about when they first enter competative game modes (similar to thiefs). Once the players get good, things change.

Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.

Fay.2357:

musu.9205:

meanwhile in pvp map chat : mirages have 90% evading frame
me : thats impossible
people : link the duel line trait which gives vigor on crit , see vigor , more dodge

be ready to get nerfed from trash tier guys . coz once you open map chat you will find there are many people mindlessly followed wp comment : mirage is over tuned

The mesmer problem has always been that it’s very strong against bad players. The mirage mechanics exacerbate this problem. Since the vast majority of players are utter trash in GW2, this leads to predictable complaint issues.

Agreed, unfortunately if the whines are strong enough arenanet will react.

I do think we are moving towards a more tanky meta though and with weaver, deadeye (did someone say 20k crits from 1500 range?) and some of the other elite specs, there will be a lot of whining going around.

I’m more afraid our mechnic will remain clunky and unfun, the other stuff I can deal with. For gods sake I stuck by this class during the worst of times when just about every 2nd of our skills was buged. Bad mechnic will make it a lot harder though.

nothelseth.4621:

The ambush skill for gs is a joke.

The unique heal from mirage is just flat out worse than ether feast. Not even worth to be brought up in same conversation as well of eternity

Jaunt is frankly just frusterating because of its ridicilous range. Has limited use. Kinda value in power (infinitely less worth than grav well/moa tho)

Condi, power, tank; in all 3 of these archetypes you’re inferior to chrono in every signle way

the dodge mechanic is cool

I agree about the elite. The range is ridiculous and makes it inferior to all other elite skills. I do love the concept and hope it can be improved on. And yeah, the heal skill sucks.

I like the idea of mirror shattering upon enemy touching it. Going a bit op would making it re spawn if enemies touching it, but with a reduced active time. Just some wishful thinking with that 2nd part :P. But it would make enemies be cautious of where they walk.

Fay.2357:

musu.9205:

meanwhile in pvp map chat : mirages have 90% evading frame
me : thats impossible
people : link the duel line trait which gives vigor on crit , see vigor , more dodge

be ready to get nerfed from trash tier guys . coz once you open map chat you will find there are many people mindlessly followed wp comment : mirage is over tuned

The mesmer problem has always been that it’s very strong against bad players. The mirage mechanics exacerbate this problem. Since the vast majority of players are utter trash in GW2, this leads to predictable complaint issues.

whats what i fear . we will be trash tier for high lvl play but getting nerfed to even more coz those complain issues .

and worse : anet added nice flashy effect on mirage , flash visual stuff sells . they may not be bothered to fix the actual problem before pof .

I kind of wish they did something to Mesmer like they did to Necro. Remove shatter skills and replace it with a new mechanic. Or more like what they did with guardian last specialization. Change the effect to add 4 different skills that each clone attacks with instead of shattering. As for traits that affect shatters, just make them be replaced if mirage specialization is selected (if they have the tech for that).

‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’

this made me laugh. Are the forums really this disconnected from how the competitive players are like?
I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.

That’s not a random core thief.

Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.

Anyhow that’s besides the point.

Having crafted around I basically got this final verdict:

Mirage is dependant on two things to be useful. 1. clones and 2. Mirror shards.

Mirror shards are just bad and need buffs/reworks to be useful and clones will never be better than phantasms for pvp usage because clones die too easily. The concept of giving your clones survivability through evading for them is a cool idea but sadly not practical.

Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci

nothelseth.4621:

‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’

this made me laugh.

I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.

That’s not a random core thief.

Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.

Anyhow that’s besides the point.

Having crafted around I basically got this final verdict:

Mirage is dependant on two things to be useful. 1. clones and 2. Mirror shards.

Mirror shards are just bad and need buffs/reworks to be useful and clones will never be better than phantasms for pvp usage because clones die too easily. The concept of giving your clones survivability through evading for them is a cool idea but sadly not practical.

Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci

Glad you took my comment personal even if it was not intended as an insuilt. I was refering to the build being core thief, obviously the player had a lot of skill, or at least I assumed he did.

I was refering to the fact that a core thief build, not even daredevil, was giving our new likely damage elite spec a hard time.

Chaoz.7941:

I kind of wish they did something to Mesmer like they did to Necro. Remove shatter skills and replace it with a new mechanic. Or more like what they did with guardian last specialization. Change the effect to add 4 different skills that each clone attacks with instead of shattering. As for traits that affect shatters, just make them be replaced if mirage specialization is selected (if they have the tech for that).

This so much.

Mirage could have really worked if they had gone all out with replacing shatter skills with illusion control skills, making illusions persistent and more powerful to follow the theme and carefully making each of the shatter traits across all the core lines work with a new mechanic.

Chrono has already got the monopoly on shatter because the entire traitline synergises with shattering and makes shattering better. Mirage should have gone the other way and focused on illusion control and manipulation as well as deception.

Right now Mirage feels like it’s neither here nor there (pun not intended) – nowhere near as good for any kind of shatter play as chrono, and equally useless at making illusions useful given they’re still as fragile as toilet paper and ambush mechanics are in general pathetically weak.

Essentially, it’s this: Mirage doesn’t connect with Core Mesmer at all. There are fringe elements, but even those are barely. I can’t see any way to build around a Mirage like I could a Chrono.

How’s condi mirage?

I felt power was going to be weak

Stuck at work can’t test

Azukas.1426:

How’s condi mirage?

I felt power was going to be weak

Stuck at work can’t test

short answer : weak

its weaker than i have thought , and i was already very negative towards mirage .

Cyninja.2954:

nothelseth.4621:

‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’

this made me laugh.

I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.

That’s not a random core thief.

Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.

Anyhow that’s besides the point.

Having crafted around I basically got this final verdict:

Mirage is dependant on two things to be useful. 1. clones and 2. Mirror shards.

Mirror shards are just bad and need buffs/reworks to be useful and clones will never be better than phantasms for pvp usage because clones die too easily. The concept of giving your clones survivability through evading for them is a cool idea but sadly not practical.

Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci

Glad you took my comment personal even if it was not intended as an insuilt. I was refering to the build being core thief, obviously the player had a lot of skill, or at least I assumed he did.

I was refering to the fact that a core thief build, not even daredevil, was giving our new likely damage elite spec a hard time.

…??..

Re-read the comment

It was sinds DAREDEVIL

?

Sad thing is we’ll be nerfed based on Golem testing…once again.

Just as that stream dude said, I managed some pretty ridiculous stuff on the Golem’s and NPCs. Just trying casually I had ~34 stacks of Confusion ticking for 2500+, and had the NPC Elementalist pop an >8k Confusion active hit. (Getting 20+ stacks on NPCs was easy, moe is hard cuz they die too fast.)

iWarden + Etheral + Axe2 + Axe3 + F2 (traited Blind->Confusion ofc with blind on shatter)

Also, the Rune of the Nightmare synergizes nicely with Jaunt, making it 5x Confusion + Blind, but on a 45s CD.)

Overall though I totally agree. The Mirage is pretty clunky and lackluster. There is potential, but I have many of the same gripes as in this thread. I had a really hard time figuring out at first what the deal was with the Mirrors, and Mirages. And honestly I still fair to see the point of Mirages. I expected a lot more Deception TBH, more swapping around with Clones and such.

The utilities are downright terrible. The only one I would even consider using is the one where you can shadow-step in and back out at will, that one is neat, but with the extremely lacking Condie Cleanse we suffer unless traiting Inspiration, I can’t even justify that. (Blink is still better, and that shadow step is too situational to give up other staples like Decoy or Portal.)

I get that this makes Mesmers a bit like Thieves, and at times I really enjoyed that. The Sword Ambush is some serious mobility, albeit as mentioned a bit slow and thus clunky…the last thing the Mirage needs more of. However, defense is seriously lacking in comparison to Thieves and quite frankly nothing is making up for that. (They’re still going to be higher DPS, more mobility, and more defense.)

In short, you have to give up WAY too much stuff just to be a mediocre Thief.

All of the Mirage attacks/abilities seem to have these really ridiculous delays, which is a large part of it feeling clunky and slapped together without proper testing. I guess this is done to prevent the deceptive nature of the de-target abilities combined with stealth and clones from getting out of hand, but does anyone believe this will work in the long run to actually confuse competent players?

Seriously, been there, done that. Humans will not be fooled by AI anytime soon, and people will adapt to this slightly more deceptive Mesmers in short order. At that point you’re left with a buncha slow/clunky and lackluster abilities that were balanced around the idea of complete newbies trying to figure out who the real Mesmer is.

Not being a drama-queen at all here, but I see nothing that is going to have me pre-purchasing this expansion at this time. I really had a lot of hope for Mirages as the concept is really cool, and as I said there is a lot of potential, but I feel the implementation is sadly kinda poor and quite frankly very disappointing after 2 years in the making.

Forgot to mention one more thing: As predicted, many of the QoL improvements that Chrono brought are now missing. Slow moving shattered Clones, no really good passive movement speed option or adequate Swiftness, same old crappy Phantasms and paper-tissue Clones, and long CDs on our primary damage output. You just give up SOOO much stuff, making SOOO many compromises, and then you get slow, clunky, unreliable, and underwhelming stuff in return. I hope they plan to drastically overhaul Mirage the way they did DH shortly before release after a similar fiasco IIRC.)

Mirage is too focused on clones/dodge mechanic with no boosts to phantasms.

Problem is, clones are and have always been worthless outside staff/scepter clones.

I’m not sure why they can’t separate phantasms from the clone counter and make mind wrack only use up clones so you can use phantasms for sustained damage and mindwrack for sustained damage in pve and burst in pvp.

Mirage virtually provides nothing of use to groups while being a mediocre selfish dps spec.

No alacrity, no quickness, no group distortion.

Not even solid CC upgrades over chrono/core mesmer.

And more importantly, it loses all the aoe from chrono’s wells.

They straight out made a gimmick spec and thought little beyond just the name.

Zenith.7301:

Mirage is too focused on clones/dodge mechanic with no boosts to phantasms.

Clone focus isn’t bad in itself, but they HAVE to make them more durable and more (direct) damaging; like 100% to both instead of Nomad’s Endurance.

As for phantasms, they get the Superspeed from Infinite Horizon so maybe if Speed of Sand gave 1s Quickness and 4s Alacrity instead and swapped position so Infinite Horizon is the GM Minor, you and the clones could burst better and the phantasms would at least get a reduction on their next attack cooldown.

On a side note the Quickness would also help with Ambush skills that have casts way longer than the evade on Cloak.

Personally the only thing I like about mirage is the ability to run lemongrass poultry soup in WvW with the chaos line for high regen uptime for -40% condition duration. You could run hoelbrak or Melandru runes for complete overkill beefing it up to -60%/65% condition duration. Stunbreak on dodge and being able to use skills in dodge are really useful too.

Also the ambush skill for sword is a non target leap skill which makes getting away easy. The deception skills I largely ignored and I agree that oasis seems flat out worse than ether feast. I think you have to stand in it to get the full 8k heal but ether feast +1 clone will give you more.

Jaunt should be 600 range then it might see more use.

apharma.3741:

I agree that oasis seems flat out worse than ether feast. I think you have to stand in it to get the full 8k heal but ether feast +1 clone will give you more.

False. False Oasis gives you a buff that ticks the health. The Oasis itself is just an indicator of where the Mirror will spawn.

Esplen.3940:

apharma.3741:

I agree that oasis seems flat out worse than ether feast. I think you have to stand in it to get the full 8k heal but ether feast +1 clone will give you more.

False. False Oasis gives you a buff that ticks the health. The Oasis itself is just an indicator of where the Mirror will spawn.

Ah fair enough, I used it once and decided it sucked compared to ether feast.

I definitely don’t think it’s a powerful enough heal skill. It grants Vigor, but I think it should regen endurance instead.

Currently the only endurance regen we get is from Mirage Advance (technically Mirage Retreat) and to be completely honest, Mirage Advance takes wayyy too long (0.75s cast time blink that requires a target AND requires you to be in range).

Requiring you to be in range means you can’t use it to get closer to an enemy, you HAVE to use it to gapclose an enemy.

nothelseth.4621:

’’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief."

this made me laugh. Are the forums really this disconnected from how the competitive players are like?

Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci

Helseth, I think you are an excellent example of “how the competitive players are like.”

To your comments; If you, a leading Mesmer player, can’t make Mirage work well, it is seriously under tuned.

Now I’m sorry I bought PoF.

nothelseth.4621:

‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’

this made me laugh. Are the forums really this disconnected from how the competitive players are like?
I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.

Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.

lmaoing @ you for getting mad and defensive because somebody dont know you or one of your friends, what a moron

On topic, the spec is garbage

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

I do like Mirage Cloak. It allows you to stomp, heal, do stuff uninterrupted which values it a lot in both PvP and PvE.

All the ambushes are bad. Even the scepter one.

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

Ithilwen.1529:

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

If you trait for vigor and condition damage the burst is scary good (this means going Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon), and you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate; basically you take advantage of your superior evasion frames.

You can figure out what works best for you, but I find that the synergy between damage and elusiveness makes Mirage a pretty good spec.

Daharahj.1325:

Ithilwen.1529:

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

If you trait for vigor and condition damage the burst is scary good (this means going Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon), and you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate.

You can figure out what works best for you, but I find that the synergy between damage and elusiveness makes Mirage a pretty good spec.

150 condi dmg for burst is nothing scary plz other class get this many stats gain for passive or even more .
and you have only 3 condi lol
not to mention you have to build clone much slower than core mes or chrono
trait gives your shatter mirror is on shatter skill usage not per illusion for 33% chance

you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate.

and what you mean by this ?
my friend played mirage against me . i target him every single time he appear from stealth with axe 3 lol
and i just spawn aoe to clean out clone lol

musu.9205:

Daharahj.1325:

Ithilwen.1529:

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

If you trait for vigor and condition damage the burst is scary good (this means going Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon), and you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate.

You can figure out what works best for you, but I find that the synergy between damage and elusiveness makes Mirage a pretty good spec.

150 condi dmg for burst is nothing scary plz other class get this many stats gain for passive or even more .

You don’t get vigor for the damage.

musu.9205:

and you have only 3 condi lol

Burn guardian only has one and it’s a viable spec. As long as you can keep up the pressure it doesn’t matter how many conditions you have.

musu.9205:

not to mention you have to build clone much slower than core mes or chrono
trait gives your shatter mirror is on shatter skill usage not per illusion for 33% chance

True, chrono shatter is superior to mirage’s.

musu.9205:

you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate.

and what you mean by this ?
my friend played mirage against me . i target him every single time he appear from stealth with axe 3 lol
and i just spawn aoe to clean out clone lol

I shatter my clones before they die to cleave, and the build I use doesn’t have stealth, so I can’t speak for your friend.

Clone on death trait please.

Edit, I agree with most tptoints people mentioned in here.

And Mirage Mirrors are a bad idea. I wonder what Daredevils would think if they’d have to run after their 3rd dodge all the time.

Daharahj.1325:

musu.9205:

Daharahj.1325:

Ithilwen.1529:

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

If you trait for vigor and condition damage the burst is scary good (this means going Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon), and you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate.

You can figure out what works best for you, but I find that the synergy between damage and elusiveness makes Mirage a pretty good spec.

150 condi dmg for burst is nothing scary plz other class get this many stats gain for passive or even more .

You don’t get vigor for the damage.

musu.9205:

and you have only 3 condi lol

Burn guardian only has one and it’s a viable spec. As long as you can keep up the pressure it doesn’t matter how many conditions you have.

musu.9205:

not to mention you have to build clone much slower than core mes or chrono
trait gives your shatter mirror is on shatter skill usage not per illusion for 33% chance

True, chrono shatter is superior to mirage’s.

musu.9205:

you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate.

and what you mean by this ?
my friend played mirage against me . i target him every single time he appear from stealth with axe 3 lol
and i just spawn aoe to clean out clone lol

I shatter my clones before they die to cleave, and the build I use doesn’t have stealth, so I can’t speak for your friend.

whatever you get vigor for , 150 condi dmg is nothing especial with our low base dmg condition .

burn guard works coz its far far far better burst condi and they have skill to instantlt stack multi stacks . none of those are true to mes.
you cant keep pressure on mirage thats the whole point we are saying

you do know you shatter clone does not do dmg instantly right , they walk to aoe and they die . you can try all u want but mirage is trash tier .. almost unfixable without a total rework.

Daharahj.1325:

Ithilwen.1529:

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

If you trait for vigor and condition damage the burst is scary good (this means going Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon), and you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate; basically you take advantage of your superior evasion frames.

You can figure out what works best for you, but I find that the synergy between damage and elusiveness makes Mirage a pretty good spec.

Yes and once people figure this out they will literally wait for our burst andthen block, evade, cleanse or invul it following up with wiping the floor with us.

Burst was never a problem for mesmer. It was always only a IWIN button against low skill opponents. Higher tier it has always been the survival and longterm game, see chrono.

Add on top of that the very clunky mechanics, the underwhelming utilities on top of our already punishing base mechanic and you get why people are not hyped.

Also most people keep comparing mesmer/chrono/mirage with what they know. Some of the other classes new elite specs are specifically designed for pvp/wvw (warrior, thief, ranger) or to compensate for lack of pve utility (guardian, revenant, necromancer). I doubt mesmer will remain in a good spot against some of those classes after PoF.

Cyninja.2954:

Daharahj.1325:

Ithilwen.1529:

Daharahj.1325:

Mirage is in a pretty decent spot tbh, just a couple of rough edges, you’re all overreacting.

Utilities need a buff that’s for sure, sword#1 ambush might get nerfed down the road.

A pretty decent spot? Please tell us why you think so. I vehemently disagree.

If you trait for vigor and condition damage the burst is scary good (this means going Dune Cloak over Infinite Horizon), and you can do this all without giving the enemy an opportunity to retaliate; basically you take advantage of your superior evasion frames.

You can figure out what works best for you, but I find that the synergy between damage and elusiveness makes Mirage a pretty good spec.

Yes and once people figure this out they will literally wait for our burst andthen block, evade, cleanse or invul it following up with wiping the floor with us.

Burst was never a problem for mesmer. It was always only a IWIN button against low skill opponents. Higher tier it has always been the survival and longterm game, see chrono.

Add on top of that the very clunky mechanics, the underwhelming utilities on top of our already punishing base mechanic and you get why people are not hyped.

Also most people keep comparing mesmer/chrono/mirage with what they know. Some of the other classes new elite specs are specifically designed for pvp/wvw (warrior, thief, ranger) or to compensate for lack of pve utility (guardian, revenant, necromancer). I doubt mesmer will remain in a good spot against some of those classes after PoF.

with so many more aoe + aoe cc + anti condi + unblockable skills from other new elites
i even worried about chrono .

musu.9205:

that heal skill lol requires mes stand still 3s in same spot basically suicide .

I thought you get the heal over time either way? The spot is just where the mirror is created at the end.

musu.9205:

honestly this is not even surprise .

that heal skill lol requires mes stand still 3s in same spot basically suicide .

and what helseth said is for pvp

for pve like raid and fractal its even worse

Yeah agreed, it’s like well of eternity (but much worse), a PvE heal, because when does a mes stand still in one place for that long in pvp unless you want to get destroyed. I think only a few classes can get away with that, mes isn’t one of them.

Vague Memory.2817:

musu.9205:

honestly this is not even surprise .

that heal skill lol requires mes stand still 3s in same spot basically suicide .

and what helseth said is for pvp

for pve like raid and fractal its even worse

Yeah agreed, it’s like well of eternity (but much worse), a PvE heal, because when does a mes stand still in one place for that long in pvp unless you want to get destroyed. I think only a few classes can get away with that, mes isn’t one of them.

Well of Eternity is a great heal in PvP :P It condi cleanses and has a really short cast time though.

I just tried this in the PvP lobby. The heal happens if you move away from the spot. The pulses still happen.

Refia Montes.3205:

Vague Memory.2817:

musu.9205:

honestly this is not even surprise .

that heal skill lol requires mes stand still 3s in same spot basically suicide .

and what helseth said is for pvp

for pve like raid and fractal its even worse

Yeah agreed, it’s like well of eternity (but much worse), a PvE heal, because when does a mes stand still in one place for that long in pvp unless you want to get destroyed. I think only a few classes can get away with that, mes isn’t one of them.

Well of Eternity is a great heal in PvP :P It condi cleanses and has a really short cast time though.

I’ve rarely seen a mes run this or any of the other wells in pvp except grav well, because they are awful for mobility combat. I’ve tried numerous combinations of wells and it is obvious they were more made for zerg PvE or WvW.