Guild Wars 2

Let’s work logically backwards. A 50% nerf would imply that confusion is drastically, game breaking overpowered right now.

If I see a video game nerf something by 50% that would tell me that that item is so overpowered that the game was brought almost to a standstill with the opness of that item of trait.

LOL has a perfect example recently of the Season 3 black cleaver. At the beginning of the season the black cleaver was so strong almost every champion was picking it up and some even stacking many. Smite had release Gaun Yu which was so strong for the first week that each match was basically Guan Yu vs Guan yu and may the better Guan Yu win.

So you’re telling me that confusion was 50% too strong? Not 30% not 20%? In my estimation playing tons of confusion it was somewhere in between 20-35% too strong. We’re not even going to try these numbers? Just BAM 50% gone.

You’re telling me that Confusion was 50% too strong……………BS. Confusion is now regulated to support and this drastically changes the class in a single nerf.

I could still make confusion builds work with a 30% nerf but 50%? Come on, that’s a bit much. What happened to reducing ratios? What happened to nerfing it by 25% then seeing how that goes? Has a 30% nerf been tried even in house? Am I wrong about my conclusions here?

That being said I’m not trying to complain as much as understand teh logic from the game designers themselves. If they just want the game easier for new players that’s fine but do we have to SLASH AND BURN in a single patch?

What happened to scalpels? All we have are chainsaws?

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

The only thing i can see with thier reasoning is initialy confusion in WvW and PvE was buffed by 50% to compesate for it being horrible in PvE (WvW and PvE were still linked back then)

They are no taking that 50% buff away which was what made it a reliable source of damage in the first place. In all honesty what it really needed in WvW was either a lower stack cap (say 7-10) or a reduction in damage by 25%-30% tops.

If the nerf comes as a 50% reduction i would expect to see some reworking in the next patch after this one to make it more viable again (especially seems there are traits built into mesmer that 100% let you make confusion your 1 source of damage) otherwise all mesmers not just glamours will suffer.

So don’t throw your rabid gear away yet have faith and if not just roll a 100 blades warrior and laugh it up with the boon hate on guardians

Daecollo.9578:

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

I just never hit myself that hard with confusion. I mean maybe in the first 2 months of the game but not since.

I’d say it’s become pretty standard for half of the wvw players now to not proc confusion hardly ever.

I’m being serious, I haven’t been hit with confusion in months. I just use lemongrass poultry soup and watch my Dot’s. I really don’t think confusion was a problem except for dodge activation on ele’s and guardians and bad rangers.

Daecollo.9578:

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

The thing is to hit that 5k you have to stack up 12+ stacks which is dam freaking hard when each stack lasts for a few seconds, once you get that burst you need to stop attacking, if that glamour mesmer manages to kill you during those 3 seconds without confusion them something sure is wrong with what you did then. The only bit that really needed fixing was it activating on dodge skills which i believe it should not do

All the figures people blurt out assume a dedicated and traited build which often sacrifice something else (ie survivability). 5K? At least you can stop attacking and not get hit by it, or you can cleanse it. A Theif can spec to hit for 5K on auto-attack. As can a Warrior. Does anyone complain about the strenght of Warrior auto-attack? Can you cleanse Warrior autoattack?

On my defensivly specced glamour Mesmer, my staff hit for about 200 per auto-attack. Two freakin hundred damage. On any other class that kind of damage would be unacceptable. But no, Mesmers take that because they rely on other methods to do damage, phantasms, shatters and confusion.

McNuggetBandit.8376:

The only thing i can see with thier reasoning is initialy confusion in WvW and PvE was buffed by 50% to compesate for it being horrible in PvE (WvW and PvE were still linked back then)

They are no taking that 50% buff away which was what made it a reliable source of damage in the first place. In all honesty what it really needed in WvW was either a lower stack cap (say 7-10) or a reduction in damage by 25%-30% tops.

If the nerf comes as a 50% reduction i would expect to see some reworking in the next patch after this one to make it more viable again (especially seems there are traits built into mesmer that 100% let you make confusion your 1 source of damage) otherwise all mesmers not just glamours will suffer.

So don’t throw your rabid gear away yet have faith and if not just roll a 100 blades warrior and laugh it up with the boon hate on guardians

I wouldn’t count on it. They have a history of not walking back on changes. (I know there have been a few exceptions, so settle down people) .

I’ll give you a logical answer. It’s because of people mindlessly spamming all their attacks without paying attention and then go crying on the forums because they died because of their own ignorance and stupidity.

To me that lack of spatial awareness is what caused this nerf. People just want to press the keyboard really really fast and see lots of purdy big numbers with lots of dying people when they’re done. But if the dying person is themselves because they didn’t (want to) pay attention, they come to the forums and rage about “Cunfjusjun kill me OP!!! NERF!!!”

I already said this in another post, but I honestly don’t think the devs tested any real numbers before making this balance change. All they did was copy/paste the numbers from sPvP because nobody whines about confusion there, and why bother balancing a game they don’t play.

Just one more argument in this thread that shows how stupid this nerf is.

IN the SotG interview they mentioned confusion and retaliation and mention NEW PLAYERS. makes me sick that all that time (8 months for casuals) acquiring gear for a specific purpose has now been made WORTHLESS.
EDIT: with 3 days notice – thats not even officially linked from client/site

i’m pretty sure the original intent of confusion damage was supposed to be a source of damage that supplemented your overall total damage, not replace it entirely.

the state of confusion builds now is 90% of your total damage is from confusion. confusion isn’t over or underpowered in spvp, since it’s not meant to be the sole source of damage in any particular build.

Godmoney.2048:

I’m being serious, I haven’t been hit with confusion in months. I just use lemongrass poultry soup and watch my Dot’s. I really don’t think confusion was a problem except for dodge activation on ele’s and guardians and bad rangers.

Same, mostly. I’ve been using a warhorn in WvW to turn it into retaliation even, which is rather humorous.

wads.5730:

i’m pretty sure the original intent of confusion damage was supposed to be a source of damage that supplemented your overall total damage, not replace it entirely.

the state of confusion builds now is 90% of your total damage is from confusion. confusion isn’t over or underpowered in spvp, since it’s not meant to be the sole source of damage in any particular build.

Source? You being “pretty sure” is irrelevant to what the devs actually had in mind for confusion.

The simple fact that smart players have made creative builds that utilize confusion in ways that wasn’t “intended”, and have worked well in the metagame for months until some forum whiners started complaining, doesn’t mean the devs should destroy all those builds to put the game back to only playing builds they “intended”. After all, they’re the ones constantly reassuring us that they too “want more viable builds per profession”.

I play a confusion mesmer to give it a go. I am on a tier 1 server blackgate with decent people, and they aren’t stupid like the people who whine on its overpowered. When I get over 10 stacks on them, they use a magical thing that all the whiners dont use: CONDITION REMOVAL.
I usually hit them for around 1-3k with 3-11 stacks at most. It is not OP, its easy to remove and it doesnt last long. Avoid it by dodge rolling or running around if you got no condition removal. L2P, its not OP.

Doesn’t dodging trigger confusion?

Also you can’t just say ‘confusion is OP against bad players’ and ‘Thieves are OP against bad players’ (not that I agree, but that seems to be the common consensus) and just nerf one and not the other.

Sunflowers.1729:

Doesn’t dodging trigger confusion?

Also you can’t just say ‘confusion is OP against bad players’ and ‘Thieves are OP against bad players’ (not that I agree, but that seems to be the common consensus) and just nerf one and not the other.

only if the class dodging casts an effect on dodge, like guardians heal on dodge, or ele’s evasive arcana.

mesmers cloen on dodge doesn’t proc confusion

Confusion does not deserve the nerf it will be receiving. Players who complain about confusion essentially do not have condition removal, are used to spamming, or don’t know how to handle it. It actually made players “think” for once and say “hey, i have 6-9 stacks of confusion, maybe i shouldn’t’ attack – o well lets spam heart-seeker more.” Condition mesmer won’t exist after the patch.

Confusion was also a good balance check for a number of classes:

Elementalist’s – (D/D)You could stack confusion on them, and this allowed them to not just spam their combos without taking damage. If I stacked confusion on an ele, they had to play cautiously with their combos or switch to water form to cleanse

Theifs – With confusion on them they could not spam heartseeker or 111111 to deal a large amount of damage. Thieves can still use shadow step to remove conditions – re-stealth and start the fight over again.

Rangers – Arguably short-bow spammers couldn’t just auto attack and do dmg. They had to stop attacking and think about their next course of action.

Solution. Glamour I believe should have been nerfed or traited to actually fix the cause. The reason people are complaining about confusion are builds that utilize glamour bombs that have the ability to stack a large amount of confusion in certain environments at a large distance and glamour skills don’t just apply confusion – they apply other effects as well.

As Godmoney stated – a 50% decrease is too extreme. The developers should have made an initial decrease of around 25% and then changed it a a later update. What you’re going to be seeing now is no more confusion mesmers and more of the generic shatter builds until that eventually gets hit with the bat.

If they really wanted to fix confusion all they needed was to do this
– Don’t make it apply dodge roll effects
– Make a system where the first stack of confusion initially does at 5 stacks 1700dmg, but once you’ve exhausted that stack, it moves down to 4..3..2..1 and deals less dmg till it no longer exists.
– Tone it down approximately 25%
– If you’re going to nerf confusion fix scepter or staffs auto attack. iMage anyone?

I’m going to wait and see what the patch has to bring, but I’m sure they’ll keep the 50%. I’m going to say that confusion will be fixed or “buffed” in several patches down the road, but that’s just wishful thinking

Daecollo.9578:

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

And when a thief hits your tank character with a 7k backstab that’s ok is it??? I can counter confusion by not being a button mashing moron.

Jedge.3619:

Confusion does not deserve the nerf it will be receiving. Players who complain about confusion essentially do not have condition removal, are used to spamming, or don’t know how to handle it. It actually made players “think” for once and say “hey, i have 6-9 stacks of confusion, maybe i shouldn’t’ attack – o well lets spam heart-seeker more.” Condition mesmer won’t exist after the patch.

Confusion was also a good balance check for a number of classes:

Elementalist’s – (D/D)You could stack confusion on them, and this allowed them to not just spam their combos without taking damage. If I stacked confusion on an ele, they had to play cautiously with their combos or switch to water form to cleanse

Theifs – With confusion on them they could not spam heartseeker or 111111 to deal a large amount of damage. Thieves can still use shadow step to remove conditions – re-stealth and start the fight over again.

Rangers – Arguably short-bow spammers couldn’t just auto attack and do dmg. They had to stop attacking and think about their next course of action.

Solution. Glamour I believe should have been nerfed or traited to actually fix the cause. The reason people are complaining about confusion are builds that utilize glamour bombs that have the ability to stack a large amount of confusion in certain environments at a large distance and glamour skills don’t just apply confusion – they apply other effects as well.

As Godmoney stated – a 50% decrease is too extreme. The developers should have made an initial decrease of around 25% and then changed it a a later update. What you’re going to be seeing now is no more confusion mesmers and more of the generic shatter builds until that eventually gets hit with the bat.

If they really wanted to fix confusion all they needed was to do this
– Don’t make it apply dodge roll effects
– Make a system where the first stack of confusion initially does at 5 stacks 1700dmg, but once you’ve exhausted that stack, it moves down to 4..3..2..1 and deals less dmg till it no longer exists.
– Tone it down approximately 25%
– If you’re going to nerf confusion fix scepter or staffs auto attack. iMage anyone?

I’m going to wait and see what the patch has to bring, but I’m sure they’ll keep the 50%. I’m going to say that confusion will be fixed or “buffed” in several patches down the road, but that’s just wishful thinking

Finally someone on here who understands the mechanic and gameplay for confusion. I used it on my engi as a counter spell for handling D/D eles and burst thieves. Now when I get jumped by a thief they will be able to spam high damage abilities without fear of confusion penalising them for the playstyle. I wish the devs would read your suggestions and apply some thought to what they are doing rather than a flat over the top 50% nerf.

Daecollo.9578:

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

It has an icon. If you see it on yourself, remove conditions or face the other way until you or somebody else in the zerg can remove it from you. If ppl dont think and just spam thats their bad. Go hahead and take away half the dmg thiefs make. Why only make mesmers less useful in wvw?

Daecollo.9578:

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

You need Massively burst, timing and perfect combo to get 15 confusion stacks on someone. On top of it, a player should NEVER HAVE that many on him. He should have dodged at least 5 of them, lowering it to a 3k hit wich by far aint that that. If you die by 5k it’s your own fault. Only in complete chaos i give you the benefit of the doubt, but hey it’s CHAOS everywher can die. You can die by unexpected killshot too… Lets nerf it too…

I have 1 character I use and he’s a glamour confusion built Mesmer. Do I hate that they’re nerfing the build. Hell yeah I do. Do I believe they need to though. Hell yeah I do. The glamour build is way op against large groups and is way to good at 1-1 fights if done right.

highlandria.7941:

I have 1 character I use and he’s a glamour confusion built Mesmer. Do I hate that they’re nerfing the build. Hell yeah I do. Do I believe they need to though. Hell yeah I do. The glamour build is way op against large groups and is way to good at 1-1 fights if done right.

Yes but why not nerf the build, instead of changing the whole effect of confusion?

Confusion has always been OP. It probably still will be after the change. Players have a choice when thy are hit with confusion- do nothing, cleanse, or take 3k+ damage every skill usage. If the player does nothing, you take him down. If they cleanse, they just burned a cooldown and you can normally confuse again pretty quickly, if they keep fighting, they go down. Regardless of what they choose, advantage goes to the Mesmer and we can do this to entire groups of players.

Yes, confusion nerf only deeply affects the builds built around confusion, but if you aren’t one of those builds, you shouldn’t really care about the nerf, as confusion is just a secondary, incidental bonus of whatever build you are actually running.
Confusion is still going to be lovely. Players will still have to make that terrible choice when they see that confusion stack go up on them. It’s just that if they choose to fight now, they won’t kill themselves outright, but they will still be much easier to take down.

Ramiah.5648:

Confusion has always been OP. It probably still will be after the change. Players have a choice when thy are hit with confusion- do nothing, cleanse, or take 3k+ damage every skill usage. If the player does nothing, you take him down. If they cleanse, they just burned a cooldown and you can normally confuse again pretty quickly, if they keep fighting, they go down. Regardless of what they choose, advantage goes to the Mesmer and we can do this to entire groups of players.

The fact is to still get those 3k hits a memser needs to stack confusion quite high which either means the enemy has ran though every glamou field we dropped our we dropped our confusion burst on them with shatters and/or scepter. This burt is no different to a hundred blades warrior coming at you as you can still dodge all these confusion hits and even if you dont manage to dodge just wait it out, they will last for all of 5 seconds until all or most of the stacks have gone and in that time a glam mesmer won’t be able to kill you on his own.

This is what people don’t understand about confusion its not 1 stack equals 10k hit its a BURST just like your warrior burst, your theif burst your ele burst just like every single other damage build in the game it is a burst.

What glam mesmers real strength was, was its ability to tag and whole entire zerg due to each “tick” (people crossing the glamour field) had its own 5 man aoe cap and you were very unlikely to get more that 5 people at once pass through a glam field. This is where the nerf should of came if anything but definatly not to overall confusion damage as this will effect all memser builds

McNuggetBandit.8376:

The fact is to still get those 3k hits a memser needs to stack confusion quite high

14 stacks at 2000 condition damage to be exact. They should have reduced blinding befuddlement and confusing enchantments base duration to 3s and applied a fix to the latter so it has an AE cap, problem solved.

Here’s a video: “http://youtu.be/LE7T4vq8JoM”

For those thinking “oh you’re bad if you just spam skills through it” consider this; confusion triggers on all skills, including your condition removal, and skills that trigger on dodge roll.

Getting hit with a massive stack of confusion is pretty much a lose/lose for the victim. For example lets say you get hit with it a large stack, dodge to avoid some other large incoming damage, take 4k for dodging, then eat another 4k cause you try to clean it off. Sure you could not do anything, but that means potentially taking more damage from just face tanking a skill, and waiting it out isn’t exactly the best choice either if confusion came bundled with other conditions.

Heck, I remember back when shatter bomb was all the rage, one of the most frustrating things was getting bombed, then almost killing your self from trying to defend yourself.

We are told that the change is due to confusion not being newbie friendly. I can agree with that as not many other games have a similar mechanic. However, it would have been better for the game’s overall health to train newbies on how it worked. I would have loved to see MORE competent fighters and tactics, especially in WvW. Instead you’ll have more people whom just power through everything because there’s one less threat to make them stop and think.

Numot.3965:

Here’s a video: “http://youtu.be/LE7T4vq8JoM”

For those thinking “oh you’re bad if you just spam skills through it” consider this; confusion triggers on all skills, including your condition removal, and skills that trigger on dodge roll.

Getting hit with a massive stack of confusion is pretty much a lose/lose for the victim. For example lets say you get hit with it a large stack, dodge to avoid some other large incoming damage, take 4k for dodging, then eat another 4k cause you try to clean it off. Sure you could not do anything, but that means potentially taking more damage from just face tanking a skill, and waiting it out isn’t exactly the best choice either if confusion came bundled with other conditions.

Heck, I remember back when shatter bomb was all the rage, one of the most frustrating things was getting bombed, then almost killing your self from trying to defend yourself.

I’m not sure what that video is supposed to show other than a necro corrupting boons, and a couple bad players killing themselves with confusion.

Numot.3965:

Here’s a video: “http://youtu.be/LE7T4vq8JoM”

For those thinking “oh you’re bad if you just spam skills through it” consider this; confusion triggers on all skills, including your condition removal, and skills that trigger on dodge roll.

Getting hit with a massive stack of confusion is pretty much a lose/lose for the victim. For example lets say you get hit with it a large stack, dodge to avoid some other large incoming damage, take 4k for dodging, then eat another 4k cause you try to clean it off. Sure you could not do anything, but that means potentially taking more damage from just face tanking a skill, and waiting it out isn’t exactly the best choice either if confusion came bundled with other conditions.

Heck, I remember back when shatter bomb was all the rage, one of the most frustrating things was getting bombed, then almost killing your self from trying to defend yourself.

It will only hit you on dodge if you have a skill that activates on dodge like guardians heal (which needs to be chaged i personally feel thats a bug) 2ndly if you clear the condition the confusion will not hit you as the confusion hits AFTER the skill casts so if you clense it its no longer ther to hit you. And lastly if you are being bomed for 4k damage by confusion any other burst should have killed you by now.

I hope this game wont be the “GAME OF THE YEAR” until next september it should be called something like “BUTCHERS OF THE YEAR” that after 8 months of game destroying a spec with a single patch, as for the people tha blame confusion is OP I play at underworld server /w me for duel and i gurantee i will kill you with no clones out just auto atacks and dodge.

Numot.3965:

Here’s a video: “http://youtu.be/LE7T4vq8JoM”

For those thinking “oh you’re bad if you just spam skills through it” consider this; confusion triggers on all skills, including your condition removal, and skills that trigger on dodge roll.

Getting hit with a massive stack of confusion is pretty much a lose/lose for the victim. For example lets say you get hit with it a large stack, dodge to avoid some other large incoming damage, take 4k for dodging, then eat another 4k cause you try to clean it off. Sure you could not do anything, but that means potentially taking more damage from just face tanking a skill, and waiting it out isn’t exactly the best choice either if confusion came bundled with other conditions.

Heck, I remember back when shatter bomb was all the rage, one of the most frustrating things was getting bombed, then almost killing your self from trying to defend yourself.

Is this video trying to hilight confusion or the worst Necro ever?

I’m wondering about this new technique of the necro in the video of JUMPING to avoid AOE’s.

I also find the lack of UI when talking about countering conditions rather laughable and pathetic.

Can you teach me to not watch my UI too?

Let’s complain about Dot’s and turn off my UI in the same breath. I’m smart.

Even if the video wasn’t pointless to begin with (we don’t need to discuss that 25 stacks of confusion can deal way more than 10k damage, everybody can do the math - it’s more a question of probability), there would have been solutions:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Confusion-1/first
The easiest being to exclude on dodge traits from triggering confusion, which was a proposal I often heard.

Crossplay.2067:

We are told that the change is due to confusion not being newbie friendly. I can agree with that as not many other games have a similar mechanic. However, it would have been better for the game’s overall health to train newbies on how it worked. I would have loved to see MORE competent fighters and tactics, especially in WvW. Instead you’ll have more people whom just power through everything because there’s one less threat to make them stop and think.

what the devs don’t realize is newbie dont stay newbie very long and once they know the game better, instead of appreciating all the builds and counter builds, all they will get are negligible incidental side effects and “basic” dps attacks with different names and graphics. Everyone will just be spamming these attacks making this game just like every other game. In the meantime they will be kitten off different group of players with every mindless nerfs.

Just wonderful.

Nerfs aren’t made to balance classes anymore. Nerfs are made to balance player skill. Kitten players get buffed and skilled players get nerfed.

Smart players remove conditions when they pop up. Poor players auto attack with ten stacks of confusion on them. This nerf wasn’t made because confusion was overpowered. It was made because ignorant players think anything that kills them “unexpectedly” is overpowered.

What I don’t get about the confusion nerf is that if it needs a 50% nerf now, why didn’t it need a 50% nerf in September? Or October? Or November?

Why is it that when the forum warriors make a cry-of-the-month topic, it’s suddenly OP?

Perhaps it was OP from the get-go. But why wasn’t it addressed then instead of 8 months down the road?

Mister Mustard.7203:

What I don’t get about the confusion nerf is that if it needs a 50% nerf now, why didn’t it need a 50% nerf in September? Or October? Or November?

Why is it that when the forum warriors make a cry-of-the-month topic, it’s suddenly OP?

Perhaps it was OP from the get-go. But why wasn’t it addressed then instead of 8 months down the road?

Exactly my point. A 50% nerf would lead me to believe that the game was borderline unplayable.

I’ve seen Champions in LOL and Smite that were more game breaking on release and they didn’t get 50% nerfs and they also got nerfs quickly….not 8 months later.

Hard to believe something that’s been around for 8 months suddenly needed a 50% slash and burn overnight.

Considering the new flavor of the month is portals, I’m optimistic it’ll be hit by the nerf bat next.

Godmoney.2048:

Mister Mustard.7203:

What I don’t get about the confusion nerf is that if it needs a 50% nerf now, why didn’t it need a 50% nerf in September? Or October? Or November?

Why is it that when the forum warriors make a cry-of-the-month topic, it’s suddenly OP?

Perhaps it was OP from the get-go. But why wasn’t it addressed then instead of 8 months down the road?

Exactly my point. A 50% nerf would lead me to believe that the game was borderline unplayable.

I’ve seen Champions in LOL and Smite that were more game breaking on release and they didn’t get 50% nerfs and they also got nerfs quickly….not 8 months later.

Hard to believe something that’s been around for 8 months suddenly needed a 50% slash and burn overnight.

This is exactly it. LoL is, for all its failings, the absolute best game on the planet in terms of how the developer team handles nerfing and buffing. They patch often, and every time they patch they do ******SMALL****** tweaks to skills, abilities, and items. This allows them to slowly approach a more balanced situation, instead of what the ANet dev team likes to do, which is balance with a sledgehammer and a chainsaw.

Loco.4561:

Daecollo.9578:

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

And when a thief hits your tank character with a 7k backstab that’s ok is it??? I can counter confusion by not being a button mashing moron.

Backstab doesn’t make it where you can’t do anything.

Confusion is more or less a stun when you get over 7 stacks. Any ability you use or trait that procs triggers it.

Last Refuge for example can proc confusion.

Daecollo.9578:

Loco.4561:

Daecollo.9578:

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

And when a thief hits your tank character with a 7k backstab that’s ok is it??? I can counter confusion by not being a button mashing moron.

Backstab doesn’t make it where you can’t do anything.

Confusion is more or less a stun when you get over 7 stacks, you literally cannot do anything unless its a passive effect. Any ability you use or trait that procs triggers it.

Last Refuge for example can proc confusion.

Iruwen.3164:

Considering the new flavor of the month is portals, I’m optimistic it’ll be hit by the nerf bat next.

You do know that Portals were nerfed twice already?

1. Increased cooldown from 60s to 90s
2. Reduced number of ‘charges’ from unlimited to 20

Daecollo.9578:

Loco.4561:

Daecollo.9578:

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

And when a thief hits your tank character with a 7k backstab that’s ok is it??? I can counter confusion by not being a button mashing moron.

Backstab doesn’t make it where you can’t do anything.

Confusion is more or less a stun when you get over 7 stacks. Any ability you use or trait that procs triggers it.

Last Refuge for example can proc confusion.

C&D (or whatever to enter stealth)… take a little damage… have the confusion removed via Shadow’s Embrace, heal back up with heal while in stealth via Shadow’s Rejuvenation… aaannnndddd confusion (as well as any other condition build) countered.

You can do this as many times as you wish vs. mesmer having limited ways of applying confusion… and not being able to do much damage outside of that as a condition mesmer. GG.

It’s in no way anything close to a stun.

Aberrant.6749:

Daecollo.9578:

Loco.4561:

Daecollo.9578:

When you hit yourself for 5k when you use a skill its pretty self explanatory.

And when a thief hits your tank character with a 7k backstab that’s ok is it??? I can counter confusion by not being a button mashing moron.

Backstab doesn’t make it where you can’t do anything.

Confusion is more or less a stun when you get over 7 stacks. Any ability you use or trait that procs triggers it.

Last Refuge for example can proc confusion.

C&D (or whatever to enter stealth)… take a little damage… have the confusion removed via Shadow’s Embrace, heal back up with heal while in stealth via Shadow’s Rejuvenation… aaannnndddd confusion (as well as any other condition build) countered.

You can do this as many times as you wish vs. mesmer having limited ways of applying confusion… and not being able to do much damage outside of that as a condition mesmer. GG.

It’s in no way anything close to a stun.

You take damage before you get the condition removed. Also it only removes the latest condition. If you do another one after that it removes that. I usually see mesmers use sigils or poison weapon switching just because of that.

You really need to take in all factors when you think about why things are nerfed.

Confusion was just so much better of a condition then all the other ones.

Daecollo.9578:

You take damage before you get the condition removed. Also it only removes the latest condition. If you do another one after that it removes that. I usually see mesmers use sigils or poison weapon switching just because of that.

You really need to take in all factors when you think about why things are nerfed.

Confusion was just so much better of a condition then all the other ones.

To my knowldege confusion damage is applied after the skills finishes casting at the end of the cast chain, So unless you clenese via combo fields (whirl+light etc) you should be able to remove confusion before the damage pops.

The clensing other condtions before confusion is a seprate issue to the damage confusion can cause when burt in high stacks, There does need to be priority on what gets clensed as atm its hard to get what you want off. Some form of proritoy system that is disclosed to the player base would be nice (something like cripples>freeze>confusion>posion/burn>bleed etc)

The big problem with this nerf is that it does not jsut effect glamour mesmers it effects almost every single build our class can run so it turn its a blanket damage reduction to every mesmer build

McNuggetBandit.8376:

Daecollo.9578:

You take damage before you get the condition removed. Also it only removes the latest condition. If you do another one after that it removes that. I usually see mesmers use sigils or poison weapon switching just because of that.

You really need to take in all factors when you think about why things are nerfed.

Confusion was just so much better of a condition then all the other ones.

To my knowldege confusion damage is applied after the skills finishes casting at the end of the cast chain, So unless you clenese via combo fields (whirl+light etc) you should be able to remove confusion before the damage pops.

The clensing other condtions before confusion is a seprate issue to the damage confusion can cause when burt in high stacks, There does need to be priority on what gets clensed as atm its hard to get what you want off. Some form of proritoy system that is disclosed to the player base would be nice (something like cripples>freeze>confusion>posion/burn>bleed etc)

The big problem with this nerf is that it does not jsut effect glamour mesmers it effects almost every single build our class can run so it turn its a blanket damage reduction to every mesmer build

Yes, but traits that remove conditions don’t remove conditions until after the ability is finished.

The ability for example grants you stealth after you use it.

1 You use the ability. (Cloak and Dagger for example.)
2 You take confusion damage.
3 You go into stealth since you used it. (Because it successfully hit a target.)
4 Then the trait that removes conditions proc.

This is how just thieves are, I have no idea how other classes work except warrior, and it has traits similar with the warhorn that are also strange, it removes conditions before the ability happens, so you get less condition removal from warrior warhorn because of that.

Daecollo.9578

Yes, but traits that remove conditions don’t remove conditions until after the ability is finished.

The ability for example grants you stealth after you use it.

1 You use the ability. (Cloak and Dagger for example.)
2 You take confusion damage.
3 You go into stealth since you used it. (Because it successfully hit a target.)
4 Then the trait that removes conditions proc.

This is how just thieves are, I have no idea how other classes work except warrior, and it has traits similar with the warhorn that are also strange, it removes conditions before the ability happens, so you get less condition removal from warrior warhorn because of that.

I see what your saying however i just see that as a trade off for using a condition removal trait instead of a condition removal utility. You save yourself a spot in your utility bar that can be used for something else while still getting condition removal (i do the same with my mantra build).

McNuggetBandit.8376:

Daecollo.9578

Yes, but traits that remove conditions don’t remove conditions until after the ability is finished.

The ability for example grants you stealth after you use it.

1 You use the ability. (Cloak and Dagger for example.)
2 You take confusion damage.
3 You go into stealth since you used it. (Because it successfully hit a target.)
4 Then the trait that removes conditions proc.

This is how just thieves are, I have no idea how other classes work except warrior, and it has traits similar with the warhorn that are also strange, it removes conditions before the ability happens, so you get less condition removal from warrior warhorn because of that.

I see what your saying however i just see that as a trade off for using a condition removal trait instead of a condition removal utility. You save yourself a spot in your utility bar that can be used for something else while still getting condition removal (i do the same with my mantra build).

However that lies the problem. Stealth thieves cannot turn last refuse off, its a ‘5’ point minor trait that we are forced to recieve. When it procs at 25% and we have confusion, it usually just spikes and kills us.

Daecollo.9578:

McNuggetBandit.8376:

Daecollo.9578

Yes, but traits that remove conditions don’t remove conditions until after the ability is finished.

The ability for example grants you stealth after you use it.

1 You use the ability. (Cloak and Dagger for example.)
2 You take confusion damage.
3 You go into stealth since you used it. (Because it successfully hit a target.)
4 Then the trait that removes conditions proc.

This is how just thieves are, I have no idea how other classes work except warrior, and it has traits similar with the warhorn that are also strange, it removes conditions before the ability happens, so you get less condition removal from warrior warhorn because of that.

I see what your saying however i just see that as a trade off for using a condition removal trait instead of a condition removal utility. You save yourself a spot in your utility bar that can be used for something else while still getting condition removal (i do the same with my mantra build).

However that lies the problem. Stealth thieves cannot turn last refuse off, its a ‘5’ point minor trait that we are forced to recieve. When it procs at 25% and we have confusion, it usually just spikes and kills us.

Last refuge is a problem totally separate from confusion. It happens to interact with confusion in a nasty way, but last refuge is a horrible excuse for a trait that should never have existed in the first place. Don’t blame confusion for the failure of the dev that designed last refuge.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Daecollo.9578:

McNuggetBandit.8376:

Daecollo.9578

Yes, but traits that remove conditions don’t remove conditions until after the ability is finished.

The ability for example grants you stealth after you use it.

1 You use the ability. (Cloak and Dagger for example.)
2 You take confusion damage.
3 You go into stealth since you used it. (Because it successfully hit a target.)
4 Then the trait that removes conditions proc.

This is how just thieves are, I have no idea how other classes work except warrior, and it has traits similar with the warhorn that are also strange, it removes conditions before the ability happens, so you get less condition removal from warrior warhorn because of that.

I see what your saying however i just see that as a trade off for using a condition removal trait instead of a condition removal utility. You save yourself a spot in your utility bar that can be used for something else while still getting condition removal (i do the same with my mantra build).

However that lies the problem. Stealth thieves cannot turn last refuse off, its a ‘5’ point minor trait that we are forced to recieve. When it procs at 25% and we have confusion, it usually just spikes and kills us.

Last refuge is a problem totally separate from confusion. It happens to interact with confusion in a nasty way, but last refuge is a horrible excuse for a trait that should never have existed in the first place. Don’t blame confusion for the failure of the dev that designed last refuge.

I only brought it up when it was used against me in a topic. I apologize it has nothing to do with the thread itself.