Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

To be honest mesmer does have one thing going for it, has the easiest and possibly highest lazy DPS on world bosses. Summon 3 warlocks and auto attack if traited Dom, duel and illusions for buffing phantasms to the max.

Ofc I wouldn’t say this is something to be encouraged though…

I mean, it’s better than anything else we can do…

It’s better than what a lot of other classes will do auto attacking too, classic bearbows, staff guards, bow warriors. Hell 90% of the world boss train is ranged players now and those warlocks hit hard with all the conditions.

Sure it’s not better when people make an effort but the last time I saw people making an effort was new shatterer and I was in the first no fly shatterer where we discovered the achievement was bugged.

Just to prove my point, the latest Living Season episode featured a kill room where waves upon waves of normal mobs and then a boss that spawns infinite waves until you kill it. You had to defend yourself and the object. If you died you failed the achievement and you had to replay the entire episode all over again.

How are mesmers supposed to deal with this?

Ananeos.4587:

Just to prove my point, the latest Living Season episode featured a kill room where waves upon waves of normal mobs and then a boss that spawns infinite waves until you kill it. You had to defend yourself and the object. If you died you failed the achievement and you had to replay the entire episode all over again.

How are mesmers supposed to deal with this?

I partied with a revenant.

Mob up, drop a well, Shatter, and kite! Often not in that exact order.

Sure It’s not very efficient at times compared to other classes, and useless against big event bosses. But has been fine for story and achievements. Also I may just be wired but I find it kinda fun~.

Waves missions, and the achievements haven’t been too much of an issue solo. Although you can clearly feel that the task would be easier on another character.

lol~ Pocket Raptors are crunchy little balls of exp… Like pidgeys!

Ok, been following this thread as I would really really like Mesmer to be viable as I do find the class different and fun.
What I keep seeing are mixed reactions. Some say they suck (PVE is me mind you) and others swear by them. I guess that’s how it is with any class, you have winners and losers.
But whats the end result? Fay, from what I gathered based on your posts and such you play/played Mesmer quite a bit but from comments you don’t any more? Or are your comments tongue in cheek and you all love the class to death?
I’m mixed in that I have found that I do at times do decent dps other times things just take forever to die and sure enough when I check the combat log (dps meter plz ANET?) I see that yea, I hit for like nothing many times. Should one focus on crit to get better damage or is it not worth it? Again, not 100% clear on how much our clones/phantoms etc. do to our dps on a whole.
Anyways, I shall keep the hope alive that the class does get some love and I will keep watching what you all have to say, it does help.

Joxer.6024:

Stuff

Ok so our clones do minimal to almost nonexistent DPS except in condition builds. Condition builds gain a lot more because 1 stack of bleed, burn etc all do the same damage as yours as it scales off your condition damage.

Phantasms do a lot more direct damage and with various traits can do a decent amount of condition damage, for example duelists discipline and pistol phantasms. 3 DPS phantasms like with sword or pistol can account for about 50% of a power mesmers sustained DPS.

As for how it fairs in PvE, that’s subjective and heavily dependent on what you’re doing and where you are.

Orr:
Mesmer
Here you can use a greatsword, mirrorblade then mind wrack and most normal risen will be dead. The vets might need a few follow up hits maybe a phantasm summon but generally ok. However there are tons of mobs and you have a minimum of 10s CD on this so you’ll hardly be carving a path through the hordes. If you group them up to AoE shatter it can help but you still do terrible damage between shatters even with sword.

Events you also lack the AoE to really tag things, you can drop wells however be aware they don’t do particularly good damage either and you can end up not qualifying as tagged the mob to get loot when you have event trains up.

Guardian
So the guardian can burst the mobs too with sword to teleport to them dropping a symbol and a few hits. Symbol has 5 targets hit, sword 3 and both hit with a good punch. It won’t burst as quick as a mesmer however the sword auto is significantly stronger than the mesmers so is doing more damage between targets. They also have more damage mods in their traits so will be buffing it considerably too.

Events, well it’s a bit biased using guards for this, needless to say they are top of tagging events, whip out your staff, press 1, drop traps where mobs spawn. Other classes do this well though like engies, necros, eles, warriors, jalis revs so they aren’t the only ones that have super easy tag options.

Dungeons, Fractals, non-raid instances
Mesmer
In parties your best option is to buff them than to go for max damage you can do tbh. Solo things can range from mild annoyance to incredibly frustrating. In a DPS build a lot of things will die before you can summon your phantasms so for trash shatter burst is best but 10s is an awful long time to wait be doing minimal damage in instances.

For bosses this is where you can shine best in a DPS build, they go on long enough to summon all 3 phantasms and for them to get to max DPS. You have utilities to allow party support via cleanse, reflects, stability etc and you have some nice suitability via blurred frenzy. However phantasms are half your DPS so anything that will make them despawn due to the target disappearing, going out of range or simply massive AoE damage like cannons at Mia Trin will set you back. Additionally anywhere where you need a unique buff to hurt something you will get shafted as a mesmer as phantasms don’t benefit. A prime example is Glint’s Lair in Living Story Season 2.

Guardian
Cleaves through mobs, trash, everything. When faced with bosses has a DPS spike then settles down to it’s moderate rotation while providing various defensive buffs to the party. Provides group utility on par with core mesmer but no unique buffs off note. Doesn’t suffer from aforementioned mechanics problems but can lose DPS if boss moves out of AoE symbols/traps.

Raids.
Mesmer
Unparalleled support, can keep 100% quickness on 10 people and a splash of alacrity too isn’t bad. Plenty of defensive skills to block damage and distortion share for when people can’t/won’t dodge a mechanic that otherwise would down them. Brings reflects, cleanses, heals and does decent break bar damage to boot.

Is probably the worst DPS class to bring to a raid because of it’s mechanics as mentioned with bosses above.

Guardian
Not the best DPS but certainly not the worst, kind of middle of the pack. Offers great utility though and can generate quickness with the elite however is pretty much outdone as a healer by druid and tank by mesmer as it doesn’t supply unique DPS buffs. With a hammer build it can keep 100% protection up for the party which is nice. There’s no reason to choose one specifically but no reason to kick them either.

As for Fay, he’s known as Pyro, short for Pyroatheist. He’s been around since well before I joined GW2 and was a big community contributer of builds, information and help along with others. He doesn’t play GW2 as much last I heard and pretty much moved to Blade and Soul where he’s part of mesmer refugees which should speak volumes about how they feel ANet has handled mesmer over the years.

Ananeos.4587:

Just to prove my point, the latest Living Season episode featured a kill room where waves upon waves of normal mobs and then a boss that spawns infinite waves until you kill it. You had to defend yourself and the object. If you died you failed the achievement and you had to replay the entire episode all over again.

How are mesmers supposed to deal with this?

“Restart from checkpoint” spawns you back in the room with full health but doesn’t reset the boss mob’s HP. So that’s how I did it.

That said… This is far from the hardest fight in the game, but it’s a perfect case in point. They clearly expect players to focus the boss mob while cleaving the adds. But because our cleave sucks, we have to deal with adds that stack up faster than we can kill them, which quickly becomes overwhelming. And because our personal DPS sucks, we can’t kill the boss fast enough to avoid the adds stacking up on us, either. And because the adds and boss both drop persistent AoEs, dragging out the fight as long as we have to quickly leaves no room on the floor to stand.

Every LS release seems to include at least one of these fights. They’re not “hard”, they’re just designed and built in a way that plays to all of Mesmer’s weaknesses. It’s cheap as hell, and I’m sick of it.

apharma.3741:

Joxer.6024:

Stuff

your stuff

WOW!! Thanks for that! That’s the kind of info I was hoping for and you nailed it. Shame though really but now I know…time to put up the lil Chrono til something happens in a positive way.
Thanks again! Cheers!

Joxer.6024:

apharma.3741:

Joxer.6024:

Stuff

your stuff

WOW!! Thanks for that! That’s the kind of info I was hoping for and you nailed it. Shame though really but now I know…time to put up the lil Chrono til something happens in a positive way.
Thanks again! Cheers!

I wouldn’t put chrono away completely, it’s more than serviceable for boss trains, great for JPs and does well in WvW/PvP in condition builds. Additionally they are as I said an integral part of raids but you only need 1. Being able to reroll chrono when needed is very helpful and is one thing I was having trouble finding when I started leading raids. Now I have about 4 or 5 people who can play chrono on an evening.

Also I had to replace your quote with the word stuff as I hit the 5000 limit.

tobascodagama.2961:

Ananeos.4587:

Just to prove my point, the latest Living Season episode featured a kill room where waves upon waves of normal mobs and then a boss that spawns infinite waves until you kill it. You had to defend yourself and the object. If you died you failed the achievement and you had to replay the entire episode all over again.

How are mesmers supposed to deal with this?

“Restart from checkpoint” spawns you back in the room with full health but doesn’t reset the boss mob’s HP. So that’s how I did it.

That said… This is far from the hardest fight in the game, but it’s a perfect case in point. They clearly expect players to focus the boss mob while cleaving the adds. But because our cleave sucks, we have to deal with adds that stack up faster than we can kill them, which quickly becomes overwhelming. And because our personal DPS sucks, we can’t kill the boss fast enough to avoid the adds stacking up on us, either. And because the adds and boss both drop persistent AoEs, dragging out the fight as long as we have to quickly leaves no room on the floor to stand.

Every LS release seems to include at least one of these fights. They’re not “hard”, they’re just designed and built in a way that plays to all of Mesmer’s weaknesses. It’s cheap as hell, and I’m sick of it.

Sums up my experience with the fight. I went down twice (once during the monkey because I didn’t expect him to hit me for nearly as hard as he did, he downed me in one hit from ~80% hp, was just not expecting it). The earlier waves were easy, if tedious. They took a while but presented no real threat. The boss however, we just cannot kill the boss fast enough before the floor turns completely to lava. I got in one or two of those water orb things to clear it and it still wasn’t enough because of his spawns which just added more and more lava fonts everywhere. The time those are up needs to be seriously reduced, and the spawns in the boss phase should not be spawning their own lava fonts on top of the boss’. Its just a painful kittening instance to solo as a mesmer, let alone get the achievement

OriOri.8724:

tobascodagama.2961:

Ananeos.4587:

Just to prove my point, the latest Living Season episode featured a kill room where waves upon waves of normal mobs and then a boss that spawns infinite waves until you kill it. You had to defend yourself and the object. If you died you failed the achievement and you had to replay the entire episode all over again.

How are mesmers supposed to deal with this?

“Restart from checkpoint” spawns you back in the room with full health but doesn’t reset the boss mob’s HP. So that’s how I did it.

That said… This is far from the hardest fight in the game, but it’s a perfect case in point. They clearly expect players to focus the boss mob while cleaving the adds. But because our cleave sucks, we have to deal with adds that stack up faster than we can kill them, which quickly becomes overwhelming. And because our personal DPS sucks, we can’t kill the boss fast enough to avoid the adds stacking up on us, either. And because the adds and boss both drop persistent AoEs, dragging out the fight as long as we have to quickly leaves no room on the floor to stand.

Every LS release seems to include at least one of these fights. They’re not “hard”, they’re just designed and built in a way that plays to all of Mesmer’s weaknesses. It’s cheap as hell, and I’m sick of it.

Sums up my experience with the fight. I went down twice (once during the monkey because I didn’t expect him to hit me for nearly as hard as he did, he downed me in one hit from ~80% hp, was just not expecting it). The earlier waves were easy, if tedious. They took a while but presented no real threat. The boss however, we just cannot kill the boss fast enough before the floor turns completely to lava. I got in one or two of those water orb things to clear it and it still wasn’t enough because of his spawns which just added more and more lava fonts everywhere. The time those are up needs to be seriously reduced, and the spawns in the boss phase should not be spawning their own lava fonts on top of the boss’. Its just a painful kittening instance to solo as a mesmer, let alone get the achievement

Oh you poor thing, he wasn’t meaning that, it’s something further on in the story.

apharma.3741:

OriOri.8724:

tobascodagama.2961:

Ananeos.4587:

Just to prove my point, the latest Living Season episode featured a kill room where waves upon waves of normal mobs and then a boss that spawns infinite waves until you kill it. You had to defend yourself and the object. If you died you failed the achievement and you had to replay the entire episode all over again.

How are mesmers supposed to deal with this?

“Restart from checkpoint” spawns you back in the room with full health but doesn’t reset the boss mob’s HP. So that’s how I did it.

That said… This is far from the hardest fight in the game, but it’s a perfect case in point. They clearly expect players to focus the boss mob while cleaving the adds. But because our cleave sucks, we have to deal with adds that stack up faster than we can kill them, which quickly becomes overwhelming. And because our personal DPS sucks, we can’t kill the boss fast enough to avoid the adds stacking up on us, either. And because the adds and boss both drop persistent AoEs, dragging out the fight as long as we have to quickly leaves no room on the floor to stand.

Every LS release seems to include at least one of these fights. They’re not “hard”, they’re just designed and built in a way that plays to all of Mesmer’s weaknesses. It’s cheap as hell, and I’m sick of it.

Sums up my experience with the fight. I went down twice (once during the monkey because I didn’t expect him to hit me for nearly as hard as he did, he downed me in one hit from ~80% hp, was just not expecting it). The earlier waves were easy, if tedious. They took a while but presented no real threat. The boss however, we just cannot kill the boss fast enough before the floor turns completely to lava. I got in one or two of those water orb things to clear it and it still wasn’t enough because of his spawns which just added more and more lava fonts everywhere. The time those are up needs to be seriously reduced, and the spawns in the boss phase should not be spawning their own lava fonts on top of the boss’. Its just a painful kittening instance to solo as a mesmer, let alone get the achievement

Oh you poor thing, he wasn’t meaning that, it’s something further on in the story.

Spoilers….

But yeah, that later fight would have been BRUTAL if I weren’t playing with Fay for it (the actual Fay).

Anyway, BnS is a bit outdated, I’m just too lazy to update my sig. I was playing vindictus for a while, but Path of Exile released a new expansion recently that I’ve been dedicating most of my playing time to. I play GW2 about 8 hours weekly: 4 hours PvE raiding and 4 hours WvW raiding.

In any case, as to your questions Joxer: I do love this class, and it’s basically the only thing I play. However, it has massive problems, as I don’t hold back my criticism or realistic assessments of it. Let me try to answer you directly.

Mesmer performance in instanced content is fantastic. We work extremely well in a party and are a valuable asset to any group, if you’re good. A bad chrono is bad, a decent chrono is bad, a great chrono is excellent.

Open world PvE is different. Overall, Mesmer performance in open world PvE is heavily dependent on whether or not you’re alone. Soloing as a Mesmer is a miserable experience, no ifs ands or buts. It is certainly very possible, but it sucks. Your damage is low, mobs squish your phantasms, multi target capabilities are close to non-existent. If you intend on doing open world content solo, play something else. End of story.

However, you can still be useful if you have a party. Chrono is a great buff slave in any aspect of the game, and your party will enjoy the quickness and alacrity you pump out for any elite mobs or bosses. On the other hand, your buffing ability is worthless for just normal clearing, so most of your play will be grouping up mobs with focus so that everyone else can kill them for you.

Even running with another person, I often want to play another class so that I can actually contribute the majority of the time in open world. The only thing stopping me really is that all my world completion is on Mesmer, so it would bug me if I don’t complete the new stuff there too. We’ll see how well that resolve holds in the future.

It was pretty shocking how much trouble I had with the living story with my mesmer (took 3 deaths to complete the last part with over the top kiting). Then I took in my warrior and stomped my way easily though the living story. Living story design was horrible for cloth wearers (fire, plus lockdowns….sheesh).

It’s sad when the living story is a joke on my warrior (probably any armor class), whereas my mesmer struggled so much.

Fay.2357:

I partied with a revenant.

I meant solo.

tobascodagama.2961:

“Restart from checkpoint” spawns you back in the room with full health but doesn’t reset the boss mob’s HP. So that’s how I did it.

The very first time you enter the egg chamber you get a persistent effect/buff on your taskbar. Dying once in the egg chamber will remove that buff, there is no way to get it back. I’ve tried. You need that buff to get an important achievement at the end of the LS episode and to complete the achievement set for rewards. You will need to restart the entire episode again to have another chance at having the buff and staying alive.

The nice thing about achievements is that they’re account-wide, so if I ever decide to get that one I can just play the story on another character. (This SHOULDN’T be the right answer to the problem, but at the moment it’s really the only answer.)

Well this thread is a bit depressing.

My original main was my Ele, who could unleash lots of damage. But with the HoT content I felt like any mistake meant a dirt nap, and eventually I switched over to my Necro. Even though he’s melee oriented while I prefer to fight ranged, his great offense and defense was too good to pass up.

Then one afternoon I finally got around to trying the Not So Secret jumping puzzle. After a frustrating hour (and one near rage-quit) on that, I decided it was time to roll a Mesmer. Originally she was just supposed to be for JPs and other events where portals were useful…but I had so much fun with her that soon she was clearing her way through the HoT zones and defeating Mordy.

No, she’s doesn’t do as much DPS as my Ele, but I feel like I have greater survivability and generally don’t have issues taking on multiple mobs. I’ve hardly felt the experience was a “miserable” one.

For the record, she’s mostly running around as GS – S/*, Dom, Illus & Chron traits, and usually wells. Occasionally I switch things up to run S/S – S/P, but again I generally prefer to fight ranged.

Maybe I’m just more easily amused?

apharma.3741:

OriOri.8724:

tobascodagama.2961:

Ananeos.4587:

Just to prove my point, the latest Living Season episode featured a kill room where waves upon waves of normal mobs and then a boss that spawns infinite waves until you kill it. You had to defend yourself and the object. If you died you failed the achievement and you had to replay the entire episode all over again.

How are mesmers supposed to deal with this?

“Restart from checkpoint” spawns you back in the room with full health but doesn’t reset the boss mob’s HP. So that’s how I did it.

That said… This is far from the hardest fight in the game, but it’s a perfect case in point. They clearly expect players to focus the boss mob while cleaving the adds. But because our cleave sucks, we have to deal with adds that stack up faster than we can kill them, which quickly becomes overwhelming. And because our personal DPS sucks, we can’t kill the boss fast enough to avoid the adds stacking up on us, either. And because the adds and boss both drop persistent AoEs, dragging out the fight as long as we have to quickly leaves no room on the floor to stand.

Every LS release seems to include at least one of these fights. They’re not “hard”, they’re just designed and built in a way that plays to all of Mesmer’s weaknesses. It’s cheap as hell, and I’m sick of it.

Sums up my experience with the fight. I went down twice (once during the monkey because I didn’t expect him to hit me for nearly as hard as he did, he downed me in one hit from ~80% hp, was just not expecting it). The earlier waves were easy, if tedious. They took a while but presented no real threat. The boss however, we just cannot kill the boss fast enough before the floor turns completely to lava. I got in one or two of those water orb things to clear it and it still wasn’t enough because of his spawns which just added more and more lava fonts everywhere. The time those are up needs to be seriously reduced, and the spawns in the boss phase should not be spawning their own lava fonts on top of the boss’. Its just a painful kittening instance to solo as a mesmer, let alone get the achievement

Oh you poor thing, he wasn’t meaning that, it’s something further on in the story.

Finished the story now. Yea…. Its almost like ANet isn’t even kittening aware of how kitten mesmer is in a PvE environment, especially if you are alone. It is horrible game design to make a story update one that is trivial on just about all classes except 1. Almost as if they all know mesmer is bad, so none of them play it, so none of them even tried these fights out on a mesmer. That was hell. Was not prepared for it so I didn’t have any condi cleanse except on my shatters, so burst goes out the door, letting condi cleasing take priority (though the amount of condis that these new mobs apply also needs to be looked at. When fighting a group of them the condis are reapplied constantly and its bullkitten, reduce the chance of their attacks to give you a condi to 70% or something at least). Fight took forever, was not at all fun, actually made me hate playing mesmer (which is, again, something that no game content should be doing).

Though the boss fight was the easiest part of that fight, killing that destroyer of hope. The other spawns slowed way down and there were a few spots you could stand right next to the shield where his large AoEs never spawned so it was a pretty constant just stand there and attack thing going on. Overall a kitten episode in my opinion.

So, you know what skill is surprisingly good in that egg chamber fight? Phantasmal Disenchanter. Seriously. Even in the worst case scenario (one bounce, no Alacrity or CS, no Chronophantasma), you get ~4 condi cleanses per cast on a 16 second cooldown. That’s nice to have in your pocket when you get slapped with a dozen Burning stacks plus cover conditions, and for once the enclosed shape of the arena makes the bounce mechanic almost reliable.

Just got through it myself, nowhere near as bad as Glint’s Lair (probably helped that I knew to take more cleanse then I normally do and deaths don’t reset the fight) but no solo Mesmer is going to get those achievements.

Ananeos.4587:

How about I take my zerker staff ele and put fire 2 on auto attack and auto target then match it off against your whatever mesmer abomination you came up with. We can do a timed trial to see how many mobs we can kill in a minute.

I’ll even take off my accessories as a handicap. Chances are you crash and burn.

Ah, you’re right ofc, I explained it wrong.

The best course of action is ofc this:

1. Delete the Mesmer char.
2. Roll Ele. Best for all raid roles, too, including healing. Even though their on-target healing is slightly lower than Druid, their overall output is higher.
3. Enjoy the ez life.

Simple Fox.9820:

No, she’s doesn’t do as much DPS as my Ele, but I feel like I have greater survivability and generally don’t have issues taking on multiple mobs. I’ve hardly felt the experience was a “miserable” one.

For the record, she’s mostly running around as GS – S/*, Dom, Illus & Chron traits, and usually wells. Occasionally I switch things up to run S/S – S/P, but again I generally prefer to fight ranged.

Maybe I’m just more easily amused?

Compared to ele, you may even have more survivability. I play mine too rarely to be able to judge it. But when I look at my guard, mesmer is just depressing.

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

OriOri.8724:

tobascodagama.2961:

Ananeos.4587:

Just to prove my point, the latest Living Season episode featured a kill room where waves upon waves of normal mobs and then a boss that spawns infinite waves until you kill it. You had to defend yourself and the object. If you died you failed the achievement and you had to replay the entire episode all over again.

How are mesmers supposed to deal with this?

“Restart from checkpoint” spawns you back in the room with full health but doesn’t reset the boss mob’s HP. So that’s how I did it.

That said… This is far from the hardest fight in the game, but it’s a perfect case in point. They clearly expect players to focus the boss mob while cleaving the adds. But because our cleave sucks, we have to deal with adds that stack up faster than we can kill them, which quickly becomes overwhelming. And because our personal DPS sucks, we can’t kill the boss fast enough to avoid the adds stacking up on us, either. And because the adds and boss both drop persistent AoEs, dragging out the fight as long as we have to quickly leaves no room on the floor to stand.

Every LS release seems to include at least one of these fights. They’re not “hard”, they’re just designed and built in a way that plays to all of Mesmer’s weaknesses. It’s cheap as hell, and I’m sick of it.

Sums up my experience with the fight. I went down twice (once during the monkey because I didn’t expect him to hit me for nearly as hard as he did, he downed me in one hit from ~80% hp, was just not expecting it). The earlier waves were easy, if tedious. They took a while but presented no real threat. The boss however, we just cannot kill the boss fast enough before the floor turns completely to lava. I got in one or two of those water orb things to clear it and it still wasn’t enough because of his spawns which just added more and more lava fonts everywhere. The time those are up needs to be seriously reduced, and the spawns in the boss phase should not be spawning their own lava fonts on top of the boss’. Its just a painful kittening instance to solo as a mesmer, let alone get the achievement

Oh you poor thing, he wasn’t meaning that, it’s something further on in the story.

Spoilers….

But yeah, that later fight would have been BRUTAL if I weren’t playing with Fay for it (the actual Fay).

Anyway, BnS is a bit outdated, I’m just too lazy to update my sig. I was playing vindictus for a while, but Path of Exile released a new expansion recently that I’ve been dedicating most of my playing time to. I play GW2 about 8 hours weekly: 4 hours PvE raiding and 4 hours WvW raiding.

In any case, as to your questions Joxer: I do love this class, and it’s basically the only thing I play. However, it has massive problems, as I don’t hold back my criticism or realistic assessments of it. Let me try to answer you directly.

Mesmer performance in instanced content is fantastic. We work extremely well in a party and are a valuable asset to any group, if you’re good. A bad chrono is bad, a decent chrono is bad, a great chrono is excellent.

Open world PvE is different. Overall, Mesmer performance in open world PvE is heavily dependent on whether or not you’re alone. Soloing as a Mesmer is a miserable experience, no ifs ands or buts. It is certainly very possible, but it sucks. Your damage is low, mobs squish your phantasms, multi target capabilities are close to non-existent. If you intend on doing open world content solo, play something else. End of story.

However, you can still be useful if you have a party. Chrono is a great buff slave in any aspect of the game, and your party will enjoy the quickness and alacrity you pump out for any elite mobs or bosses. On the other hand, your buffing ability is worthless for just normal clearing, so most of your play will be grouping up mobs with focus so that everyone else can kill them for you.

Even running with another person, I often want to play another class so that I can actually contribute the majority of the time in open world. The only thing stopping me really is that all my world completion is on Mesmer, so it would bug me if I don’t complete the new stuff there too. We’ll see how well that resolve holds in the future.

I pretty much agree with this except the bolded part. It’s not that mesmer is superb in instances more that it’s tangfastic in parties. Doing story instances alone is as you describe a miserable experience. The alacrity, quickness and support is nice for fractals and dungeons but it’s kind of overkill I feel as even 4 good players trivialise both of them since the HoT creep without a chrono.

Also you really haven’t done mapping on any other character!?

If Fay is anything like me, Mesmer was the first character he clicked with enough to take to 80 and then he just never bothered to go back and redo map completion on the others.

tobascodagama.2961:

If Fay is anything like me, Mesmer was the first character he clicked with enough to take to 80 and then he just never bothered to go back and redo map completion on the others.

Map completion can die in a fire. I started with mesmer, I finished on mesmer, I said NEVER AGAIN.

Yup.

/15 characters

tobascodagama.2961:

So, you know what skill is surprisingly good in that egg chamber fight? Phantasmal Disenchanter. Seriously. Even in the worst case scenario (one bounce, no Alacrity or CS, no Chronophantasma), you get ~4 condi cleanses per cast on a 16 second cooldown. That’s nice to have in your pocket when you get slapped with a dozen Burning stacks plus cover conditions, and for once the enclosed shape of the arena makes the bounce mechanic almost reliable.

I know it would work well, but I did not go in to that chamber expecting to need it. I have never needed more condi cleanse than what I get from shatters except when zergs find me in WvW. I just didn’t have it equipped because as useful a skill as it is, its not a skill that you need in literally any other PvE content.

So I did the story on my DH first and then checked out engi. Not too hard/too easy on either of them. DH was fairly standard meta with scepter. Engi is the PvE easymode perma 25 might quickness hammer potion engi and I died once to carelessness. I got the don’t die at all on the DH relatively well but I did get downed a few times.

I fully expected mechanics that actually screw over Mesmer: Breakbars and buffs that prevent your phantasms from doing damage. Neither of these existed. As much as people are complaining about these encounters not being fair for Mesmer, I have to give Anet props for at least not screwing over those two aspects.

Because interrupts were a thing again, Domination, Dueling, Chrono with a pistol with Sigil of Draining and HM for MoD. Alternate between Pistol 5 and MoD to recharge p5 via DD. Interrupts were providing slow (and 30% crit on slow), quickness, vulnerability, damage and weakness, more damage and healing (sigil of draining is 1k lifesteal with no ICD) and just preventing damage. Sword with sigil of strength and golden dumplings meant decent might on crit. Dueling gave fury. I died once in the final mission but was more so because I got sloppy. I had to try harder than DH and engi but it wasn’t that much harder. I’ll try for the achievements later today.

I think people are so used to thinking that “warriors provide 25 might” that they don’t ever think to bring it themselves in solo situations. Basically, not as hard as people are saying if you are willing to adapt the build. Self buffs like might, fury, quickness and vuln on enemies helps with the damage a lot. Interrupts help a lot with preventing it. I’m not saying Mesmer has it easy, they don’t. It sucks that Mesmers have to change their builds so much compared to my other two tries which changed maybe 1 or 2 traits but I find it extremely unlikely that a Mesmer main that really wants this achieves won’t be able to get it on Mesmer if they actually try.

TLDR: No mechanic in the story screws over the Mesmer they way past mechanics have done so. It’s not easy but if you bring proper self buffs and interrupts it’s not so bad as people are claiming.

Well yea, once you know about the fight you can spec your mesmer out to have a hell of a time to even have a chance at those achievements. But it still screwed over mesmers.

Like you said, with the other 2 classes you tried it on, you switched a trait or two, maybe a skill. You didn’t have to change your whole build. And that means that you could go in 100% unprepared (ie not knowing what you are getting yourself into) and still not only not be miserable but actually have a really good chance at those achievements. Mesmer is the only class where you can’t do that. As squishy as ele and thief can be, at least they can clear those mobs incredibly quickly.

If only a single class has to alter their entire build to do this content without wanting to quit their char then there is something wrong with the class design.

but if you had condi cleanse on shatter you would have been playing with the inspiration line so you would have had condi cleanse on healing too right? the only thing you needed to change a bit is using that disenchanter. acts as a double for shatter clones as well as condi cleanse.

my main problem with Mesmer currently is that its too dependent on the inspiration line to survive. that trait line gives so much more healing and condi cleanse compared to the other trait lines you’d be crazy not to take it atm. I tried playing other trait lines and take it into fractals swamp. It’s like 10 times easier with having inspiration compared to chaos or domination.

so viable Mesmer builds atm doesn’t seem very diverse to me.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

TLDR: No mechanic in the story screws over the Mesmer they way past mechanics have done so. It’s not easy but if you bring proper self buffs and interrupts it’s not so bad as people are claiming.

Swapping between multiple targets, having to clear adds and aoes all over the floor are the mechanics that screw over Mesmer.

As I said, not Glint’s lair bad but its not good. Signs also point to living world/expansion continuing this way and getting harder and more complex.

@squallaus I’m supposed to have it, but it doesn’t work with ether feast for me (not sure why) and its the main heal skill I run with. Halfway through I switched out to well of eternity which has a condi cleanse built in, so with inspirations it was 2 condis cleansed per cast but it didn’t help too much. The CD is just too high on it considering how many mobs are constantly applying damaging conditions in that instance

OriOri.8724:

Well yea, once you know about the fight you can spec your mesmer out to have a hell of a time to even have a chance at those achievements. But it still screwed over mesmers.
…
If only a single class has to alter their entire build to do this content without wanting to quit their char then there is something wrong with the class design.

Absolutely. I’m not trying to hide the fact that it took prior knowledge. It was a good kind of prior knowledge: a 1/3 of our traits that have never worked in most hard areas work in these missions. It’s refreshing being able to try an interrupt build for a change in PvE.

I have to somewhat disagree with the second point but maybe it’s also because I like playing games like dark souls. Failing and then changing tactics later are fine. Especially for achievements. Yes it’s a partial failure of mesmer design but I think it’s more of a failure that other classes have a single build or close to 1 build that is optimal enough in too many situations. Granted gw2 is an easy mode game but it’s also close to impossible to actually failing these story missions: They put you right back into the fight without resetting. Then you get to change builds on the second go through for achievements.

Levetty.1279:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

TLDR: No mechanic in the story screws over the Mesmer they way past mechanics have done so. It’s not easy but if you bring proper self buffs and interrupts it’s not so bad as people are claiming.

Swapping between multiple targets, having to clear adds and aoes all over the floor are the mechanics that screw over Mesmer.

As I said, not Glint’s lair bad but its not good. Signs also point to living world/expansion continuing this way and getting harder and more complex.

Agree with you on glint’s lair and somewhat on the first part. It’ also why I changed to focus a lot on interrupts and self buffs. Get that might, fury and quickness often enough to have auto-attacks comparable to an unbuffed thief auto. This avoids all the problems you mentioned above. Then I buffed my interrupts a ton to further add vulnerability, damage and sustain which also doesn’t require any illusions. Toss in MoP and wells too. Shatter illusions often. Don’t depend on the phantasms.

I’m not denying there is a problem with phantasms and PvE. I’m offering a solution that most PvE Mesmers seem to have forgotten since it’s a tactic that hasn’t worked in a while.

here is my peeve to Mesmer, my 2 cents. But why isn’t there anything in play to where the decoys take the heat?

i can be attacking mobs, lay as many decoys i want. but the mobs fully ignore them and come right after me. true i could just walk away and then i wouldn’t get hate any if i didn’t attack. but can’t they get added aggro hate or something? maybe “Decoy” takes the rest of the hate you’ve gained over the mob/s?

not saying i can’t kill the mobs, but its gets rather annoying and pointless me using decoys at all. except for when i want to run away like a coward.

The link contains massive spoilers for the new living story episode, don’t click it if you don’t want to know what happens.

So here is a fairly well known streamer playing mesmer in the final fight, judge for yourself how it is.

Edit: I know his build is woefully bad for a single player story instance however there’s not much to go on going in.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

TLDR: No mechanic in the story screws over the Mesmer they way past mechanics have done so. It’s not easy but if you bring proper self buffs and interrupts it’s not so bad as people are claiming.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

It’ also why I changed to focus a lot on interrupts and self buffs. Get that might, fury and quickness often enough to have auto-attacks comparable to an unbuffed thief auto. This avoids all the problems you mentioned above. Then I buffed my interrupts a ton to further add vulnerability, damage and sustain which also doesn’t require any illusions. Toss in MoP and wells too. Shatter illusions often. Don’t depend on the phantasms.

So much this!

We are lower in aoe dps than other professions, but the difference isn’t like in teams where we deal 10k and the full dps professions around 30k, we win compared to other professions in solo situations. If you have a condi set you even have top tier single target dps. Then most professions can’t pull mobs together and cleave them right away.

We have plenty of qualities but the Mesmer forum has always been the whiniest one …

apharma.3741:

So here is a fairly well known streamer playing mesmer in the final fight, judge for yourself how it is.

And this is good example of a Chrono who plays like in Raids in open world. And then pulls the GS Q_Q

Xyonon.3987:

apharma.3741:

So here is a fairly well known streamer playing mesmer in the final fight, judge for yourself how it is.

And this is good example of a Chrono who plays like in Raids in open world. And then pulls the GS Q_Q

Oh definitely, it’s by no means “optimal” for that but then look at what DuckDuckBOOM was suggesting, that’s essentially another full set of armour, weapons and a full build change that’s if you’re not overriding sigils etc.

“Because interrupts were a thing again, Domination, Dueling, Chrono with a pistol with Sigil of Draining and HM for MoD. Alternate between Pistol 5 and MoD to recharge p5 via DD. Interrupts were providing slow (and 30% crit on slow), quickness, vulnerability, damage and weakness, more damage and healing (sigil of draining is 1k lifesteal with no ICD) and just preventing damage. Sword with sigil of strength and golden dumplings meant decent might on crit. Dueling gave fury. I died once in the final mission but was more so because I got sloppy. I had to try harder than DH and engi but it wasn’t that much harder. I’ll try for the achievements later today.”

Do you know how much I’m going to be changing my build on my other characters? I’ll be switching a few utilities maybe, might swap a trait line but everything else will be the same. I’m actually looking forward to this fight on my condition engineer and necro because of how face roll it will be.

The whole thing is about parity with other classes, mesmer falls far far behind others for solo instances. As Pyro said, playing mesmer solo is miserable when you compare it to other classes.

You don’t need a full new armor etc. The only thing you have to do is retrait, if you are fancy get another weapon, that’s it.

If you are too lazy to do even that, then you shouldn’t complain about issues with your profession in a specific area you do not adapt to.

It doesn’t matter if other professions have to retrait, because some of them even can’t retrait to be stronger. You must only compare the optimal realisitc setups with each other.

Xyonon.3987:

You don’t need a full new armor etc. The only thing you have to do is retrait, if you are fancy get another weapon, that’s it.

If you are too lazy to do even that, then you shouldn’t complain about issues with your profession in a specific area you do not adapt to.

It doesn’t matter if other professions have to retrait, because some of them even can’t retrait to be stronger. You must only compare the optimal realisitc setups with each other.

I thought he used strength runes that’s why I said armour, I guess he doesn’t but then the might won’t last very long without some boon duration increases even with golden fried dumplings.

Even retraiting it doesn’t change much, you’re still going to be expending considerably more effort trying to kill mobs than most classes who cleave them out like flies. When other professions are doing twice as much sustained damage while cleaving I don’t think they really need to get stronger and that is a moot point.

To clarify what I was using:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJAs6mcfC2oBEgiFVjq8DKhBoeZf2qlMAqgdC-TBSGABrv/wQKPgSJmUKBBU9HAeAAkpH4+TAgoACM-e
Would swap to shield or GS depending on the fight. I found myself mostly camping sword/pistol and prefered shield as my extra by the end of it. Focus could probably also work too.

Sigil of strength not rune of strength. If you’ve been paying attention, it’s meta in some comps so it’s not that much of a stretch for mesmers to have one. That build has 2484 power. Sigil of force is equivalent to (2484 * 1.05 – 2484 = 124 power) or 4 stacks of might only on the mesmer not the phantasms and only on power nor condi damage. In long solo fights, fights where you bring some conditions, or in long team fights with 7/2/1 setup, sigil of strength is better for the mesmer than sigil of force/air. In raids with a 100% boon duration, it’s easily 12-15 stacks of might that can be SoI. In solo situations with 20% boon duration, it’s still better than the 2-3% that sigil of force effectively brings.

Don’t take my word for it though, check qTs guide.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/52qtw3/updated_raid_chronomancer_guide/

Sigil of draining takes TD tokens and having a pistol. It’s not necessary but the 1k lifesteal per interrupt with no ICD is really nice for that build.

TLDR: 1 new sigil on a pistol. A debatably meta sword. Same armor/trinkets as the raid build are fine although rune of strength doesn’t hurt at all.

Xyonon.3987:

we win compared to other professions in solo situations. If you have a condi set you even have top tier single target dps.

The highest dps we can posibly achieve is about on par with Condi Druid and thats a support build and the second weakest in terms of DPS numbers. Thats before you take into account ramp up times and mechanic problems and condi druid isn’t single target. Not exactly top tier and is useless for these instances.

If you are going to insult people at least know what you are talking about.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

To clarify what I was using:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJAs6mcfC2oBEgiFVjq8DKhBoeZf2qlMAqgdC-TBSGABrv/wQKPgSJmUKBBU9HAeAAkpH4+TAgoACM-e
Would swap to shield or GS depending on the fight. I found myself mostly camping sword/pistol and prefered shield as my extra by the end of it. Focus could probably also work too.

Sigil of strength not rune of strength. If you’ve been paying attention, it’s meta in some comps so it’s not that much of a stretch for mesmers to have one. That build has 2484 power. Sigil of force is equivalent to (2484 * 1.05 – 2484 = 124 power) or 4 stacks of might only on the mesmer not the phantasms and only on power nor condi damage. In long solo fights, fights where you bring some conditions, or in long team fights with 7/2/1 setup, sigil of strength is better for the mesmer than sigil of force/air. In raids with a 100% boon duration, it’s easily 12-15 stacks of might that can be SoI. In solo situations with 20% boon duration, it’s still better than the 2-3% that sigil of force effectively brings.

Don’t take my word for it though, check qTs guide.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/52qtw3/updated_raid_chronomancer_guide/

Sigil of draining takes TD tokens and having a pistol. It’s not necessary but the 1k lifesteal per interrupt with no ICD is really nice for that build.

TLDR: 1 new sigil on a pistol. A debatably meta sword. Same armor/trinkets as the raid build are fine although rune of strength doesn’t hurt at all.

I took your build, grabbed a strength rune and the food, used my zerk armour with traveler runes for extra boon duration. Was the instance impossible? Nope not by a long shot but I then rushed my necro through it too. Both cases I knew what I was walking in to so neither class had an advantage and all I can say was my necro was super easy to do it on.

Epidemic the big dude to cleave out adds, lots of minions putting 10 bleeds on enemies almost as soon as I targeted them, lots of poison. I wouldn’t say it was face roll but I wouldn’t say it was difficult by any stretch of the imagination on necro. Mesmer was certainly “harder” but it wasn’t harder because the instance is hard just harder because mesmer in general sucks for solo. I also had plenty of might when it mattered due to blood is power.

Best bit? I didn’t have to change a dam thing.

Doing a condi-heavy instance on Necro is almost cheating. :P

apharma.3741:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

…

I took your build, grabbed a strength rune and the food, used my zerk armour with traveler runes for extra boon duration. Was the instance impossible? Nope not by a long shot but I then rushed my necro through it too. Both cases I knew what I was walking in to so neither class had an advantage and all I can say was my necro was super easy to do it on.

Epidemic the big dude to cleave out adds, lots of minions putting 10 bleeds on enemies almost as soon as I targeted them, lots of poison. I wouldn’t say it was face roll but I wouldn’t say it was difficult by any stretch of the imagination on necro. Mesmer was certainly “harder” but it wasn’t harder because the instance is hard just harder because mesmer in general sucks for solo. I also had plenty of might when it mattered due to blood is power.

Best bit? I didn’t have to change a dam thing.

As I’ve said multiple times in this thread, I know most classes don’t have to swap stuff. I didn’t really swap much myself on guard or engi when I did the story missions. I said it took more effort as a chrono compared to those.

If you go into the story with a raid chrono build, you are going to have a bad time. That’s like complaining that a staff healing druid or healing tempest isn’t viable in solo story missions. That doesn’t mean those classes aren’t viable to solo the instance. They just need to change their builds. It sucks but it’s not impossible.

Actually during the fight you get a buff that makes you do 2-3 times more damage to the boss if not more. Anyone wanna check to see if phantasms get it or if mesmer does the same damage as every other class?

For reference I was getting 18k for rift slash and 12k for the other 2 of the auto.

P.S. Also did it on rev, hilariously easy to do.

Well, there’s been a lot of discussion, so I thought I’d step in to correct these 3 massive lies that disappointed me.

Xyonon.3987:

We are lower in aoe dps than other professions, but the difference isn’t like in teams where we deal 10k and the full dps professions around 30k, we win compared to other professions in solo situations.

Since when do we win vs other classes in solo? Maybe if we’re soloing a champ that can’t be meleed, so we kite around with staff for an hour letting clones kill it, but literally all other situations our solo damage is just as miserable as our team damage.

Xyonon.3987:

If you have a condi set you even have top tier single target dps.

This is sort of a 2-for-1 special. Mesmer single target dps with a condie build is competitive, but it’s far from top tier, so that’s a lie. On top of that, reaching those levels requires 10-15 seconds of setup on a pure single target while simultaneously ruining any aoe damage we have.

Yeah, sounds like great fun to use in almost any content ever, which is why nobody ever uses it.

Xyonon.3987:

Then most professions can’t pull mobs together and cleave them right away.

I’m sort of confused as to why you would say this when it’s so hilariously wrong. Necro has a good pull on greatsword, guardian has greatsword yank, rev has offhand axe pull, ranger has offhand axe, and Elementalist has aoes that are bigger than our pulls, so it doesn’t even matter.

Are the Mesmer forums too whiny? Maybe, but this isn’t one of those cases, and trying to argue with blatant lies won’t get us anywhere.

Fay.2357:

Are the Mesmer forums too whiny? Maybe, but this isn’t one of those cases, and trying to argue with blatant lies won’t get us anywhere.

Some of the people on Mesmer forums have got their heads stuck in the sand, I just don’t see how anyone thinks Mesmer is anywhere in a good spot right now. They also think that all their life problems will be solved with the new elite specs which isn’t set to come out for more than a year.

I don’t know why the LS episode was difficult for you guys. I got all the achievements with my mesmer on first try. Retrait maybe ? I was GS/Staff on Dom/IIlu/Chrono : Signet of Ether, MoResolve or Disenchanter, Well of Calamity, Blink, Well of Gravity. GS trait, Chronophantasma, Shatter/Phantasm Traits.

It’s my general PvE Build : http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJARWnsICFqhtfCmpBEgilUjq+Zr2rlcAKhAA96yutD-e

You should have easy time shattering and rotating with Disenchanter and pBerserk out + Persistence of Memory + Chronophantasma.

I won’t deny I had way easier time with my Rev, Ranger and Necro… The lastest was a cakewalk.

It’s literally impossible to fail the instance right now (likely a bug that will get fixed, but still), so it’s not about difficult or not difficult. It’s about story instance design that consistently works against Mesmer mechanics.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

In solo situations with 20% boon duration, it’s still better than the 2-3% that sigil of force effectively brings.

Exactly this. However if you aren’t getting downed all the time, Bloodlust will still be better than both of them with 250 power. I would always pick a stacking sigil in open world, unless you are still inexpirienced with the enviorment / the profession.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Sigil of draining takes TD tokens and having a pistol. It’s not necessary but the 1k lifesteal per interrupt with no ICD is really nice for that build.

I didn’t know that it has no icd, wich makes it way better than I thought. 1k heal per interrupt can be quite good with Tides of Times.

I wouldn’t underestimate Concentration aswell. Quickness is a very strong boon, especially if you use Mantra of Pain and autos.

Levetty.1279:

Xyonon.3987:

we win compared to other professions in solo situations. If you have a condi set you even have top tier single target dps.

The highest dps we can posibly achieve is about on par with Condi Druid and thats a support build and the second weakest in terms of DPS numbers. Thats before you take into account ramp up times and mechanic problems and condi druid isn’t single target. Not exactly top tier and is useless for these instances.

If you are going to insult people at least know what you are talking about.

Haven’t insulted anyone here.

Sounds like you’re talking about full buffed stats (raids)? In a raid enviorment you’ll get up to around 24k dps with a condi build, including Chronomancer as a traitline. Condi Druid gets up to 18k.

Yet this threat is about open world and soloing stuff. My words were: “If you have a condi set you even have top tier single target dps”.

You can post me vids of your 3 best professions doing any maguuma hero point completly solo. I’ll do it on my Chrono and I’m certain that I’ll be faster than at least one of them. Just not the Mushroom Queen please! Q_Q xD

I suggest you make yourself a good condi gear, go to the test golem and compare it to all other profession soloing an 1 mil hp golem. I was surprised aswell how “not terrible” we are.

Fay.2357:

Xyonon.3987:

We are lower in aoe dps than other professions, but the difference isn’t like in teams where we deal 10k and the full dps professions around 30k, we win compared to other professions in solo situations.

Since when do we win vs other classes in solo? Maybe if we’re soloing a champ that can’t be meleed, so we kite around with staff for an hour letting clones kill it, but literally all other situations our solo damage is just as miserable as our team damage.

I didn’t say “we win vs other classes in solo”. I said “we win compared to other professions”.

What I meant is that for example a Thief loses more damage in % than a Chrono if you pick both out of the team enviorment. And this applies to basicly all none-supporters with huge damage modifier boons or quickness independent dps like we have. That’s simply a fact.

A Thief deals around 30k dps against the golem with the commonly used raid buffs (qT uses).
If you now solo a 1m golem without any buffs, you’ll deal around 9k damage, with food around 10k. So you lose 67% dmg as a Thief in solo compared to a team enviorment. Most of it due to Quickness wich increases the dps by 50% already.

A solo Chrono with Rev deals around 10-12k dps in Raids. If he lacks a Rev and goes Commander, he’s at around 8k. Let’s just say 11k dps as a Chrono in Raids, ok?
If you now solo the 1m golem with no buffs but food as the thief, oh magic happens! 7k dps as power (5.5 is cleave) and 9.5k as condi (single target). So we lose 15-40% dmg.

That’s what I mean. We aren’t winning directly in terms of dps, but we are winning in “losing less dps in solo”.

Fay.2357:

Xyonon.3987:

If you have a condi set you even have top tier single target dps.

This is sort of a 2-for-1 special. Mesmer single target dps with a condie build is competitive, but it’s far from top tier, so that’s a lie.

We are talking about solo dps. Don’t accuse me of lying with that statement just because I’ve made expiriences with the setup. I’d rather encourage you to give it a shot too, but seriously, not with the “it’s gonna be worse anyway-attitude” :P

…

…

On top of that, reaching those levels requires 10-15 seconds of setup on a pure single target while simultaneously ruining any aoe damage we have.

Yeah, sounds like great fun to use in almost any content ever, which is why nobody ever uses it. [/quote]

Is it not used? You think people who have no problems will complain in the forums? It’s hands-down the best way for soloing hero points as a Chrono. I agree, I wouldn’t use it for trash mobs or cleave / aoe in general either, you’re right with that. But the only thing you have to setup are 2-3 i duellists and that you’ve done within 10s for sure.

As mentioned above, almost the same dps as a thief that would be constantly attacking in melee wich is quite impossible against any of the new hero points. But to be fair the phantasms sometimes get attacked aswell so you’ll be more at 2 instead of 3. But hey, it’s not like our #2 block deals 10k damage every 4s without having any buffs, aye?

Post vids with your best 3 professions doing a specific hero point solo. I’ll be faster than at least one of them for sure. >:)

Fay.2357:

Xyonon.3987:

Then most professions can’t pull mobs together and cleave them right away.

I’m sort of confused as to why you would say this when it’s so hilariously wrong. Necro has a good pull on greatsword, guardian has greatsword yank, rev has offhand axe pull, ranger has offhand axe, and Elementalist has aoes that are bigger than our pulls, so it doesn’t even matter.

Well agreed, Necro and Guard have good pulls. The others are rather mediocre to stack mobs to cleave them later though. Especially since Rev and Druid both alsi lack in aoe and have semi cleave autos.

Two professions with good pulls simply are not “most of them” though. It’s not like it’s our only quality.

Fay.2357:

Are the Mesmer forums too whiny? Maybe, but this isn’t one of those cases, and trying to argue with blatant lies won’t get us anywhere.

Those are some rather hard accusations. :/ But I’m pretty sure everyone here has done more than just use the raid builds in open world before wallowing in self-pity. :x

Jokes aside … the truth is I’m just disappointed all the Mesmer players here try to hug each other and tell them “it’s ok to be bad, we are designed to be bad” rather than finding another way, a solution with the possibilities given – like DuckDuckBOOM.4097 did.