Guild Wars 2

I’ve been noticing a build that’s virtually unkilleable (we’re talking needing around 3 people). Lots of condi damage, invisibilities and coming out of invis at full health.

How do you people deal with this? There’s no counter for invisibility and it’s chewing at my insides everytime I run into this build.

Zetus.1476:

I’ve been noticing a build that’s virtually unkilleable (we’re talking needing around 3 people). Lots of condi damage, invisibilities and coming out of invis at full health.

How do you people deal with this? There’s no counter for invisibility and it’s chewing at my insides everytime I run into this build.

They don’t do much damage and they don’t cap a point… it’s basically a 4v5

I do tPvP.

General tip: If you are talking about a duel, while they are invis kill their iduelists.

Would help if the community knew your class as well.

jportell.2197:

Zetus.1476:

I’ve been noticing a build that’s virtually unkilleable (we’re talking needing around 3 people). Lots of condi damage, invisibilities and coming out of invis at full health.

How do you people deal with this? There’s no counter for invisibility and it’s chewing at my insides everytime I run into this build.

They don’t do much damage and they don’t cap a point… it’s basically a 4v5

In my experience, this is the far from the truth – they do very solid damage. running 10/0/0/30/30 S/D-shbow thief, they’re one of the few specs I have yet to figure out. Against equal skill level, I usually lose. Mind posting a spec so I can take a look at it?

A large chunk of condi damage comes from iDuel bleed procs (confusion proc if traited and combos with pink fields), staff clones, and Chaos Storm. As Eurantien said, killing the iDuelists and clones ASAP is key. Of course you don’t bash around killing it within melee since it is highly likely that they will throw more conditions and confusion on you when these illusions are killed.

Also, blinds and LOS make clone generating skills miss so invest on those.

They can also kite and hide pretty well with all those blink, phase retreats and decoy so catching them on melee is kind of pointless unless you catch them with all these skills on cooldown and that is a pretty small window of opportunity IMO since these skills have fairly short CDs. They seem to melt fast with ranged and aoe condi though. L/B warrior and necro come to mind. And clone generating skills require a target so fighting stealth with stealth is a fairly effective counter as well IMO.

evilapprentice.6379:

jportell.2197:

Zetus.1476:

I’ve been noticing a build that’s virtually unkilleable (we’re talking needing around 3 people). Lots of condi damage, invisibilities and coming out of invis at full health.

How do you people deal with this? There’s no counter for invisibility and it’s chewing at my insides everytime I run into this build.

They don’t do much damage and they don’t cap a point… it’s basically a 4v5

In my experience, this is the far from the truth – they do very solid damage. running 10/0/0/30/30 S/D-shbow thief, they’re one of the few specs I have yet to figure out. Against equal skill level, I usually lose. Mind posting a spec so I can take a look at it?

its usually 20/20/30/0/0 they melt really fast to consistent condi pressure. It really isn’t that great if you have them on you team because they don’t actually cap a point. So you have to outlast and burst… They aren’t tanky at all.

I’ve played a trap ranger which for me usually is able to handle most classes. The conditions are usually enough to drop normal mesmers, but ones like these that literally go invisible and shift places every 5 seconds I cannot handle.

I went into spectate and saw scepter, sword, pistol, and cant remember the other weapon.

Utilities : decoy, null field, and blink. Mass invis as the elite.

Maybe the trap ranger just isn’t enough for it. And you are right Gallrvaghn, melee can’t do anything at all to them.

jportell.2197:

evilapprentice.6379:

jportell.2197:

Zetus.1476:

I’ve been noticing a build that’s virtually unkilleable (we’re talking needing around 3 people). Lots of condi damage, invisibilities and coming out of invis at full health.

How do you people deal with this? There’s no counter for invisibility and it’s chewing at my insides everytime I run into this build.

They don’t do much damage and they don’t cap a point… it’s basically a 4v5

In my experience, this is the far from the truth – they do very solid damage. running 10/0/0/30/30 S/D-shbow thief, they’re one of the few specs I have yet to figure out. Against equal skill level, I usually lose. Mind posting a spec so I can take a look at it?

its usually 20/20/30/0/0 they melt really fast to consistent condi pressure. It really isn’t that great if you have them on you team because they don’t actually cap a point. So you have to outlast and burst… They aren’t tanky at all.

I’d have imagined they were something more like 0/20/30/20/0 with Rabid – constant access to regen, protection and aegis with multiple stealths that leave pets to continue doing damage for you while you’re healing/repositioning. Pets that punish you for hitting/killing them. Why go 20 domination?

My spec has sustain, but not so much burst – I think this spec is just a soft counter for mine.

Grab a decent dps pet like drake or jag or raven and send your pet after the iduelists and mages and stuff when you can. Takes a lot of micromanaging but reduces their dps by a lot.

The build you posted Jportell is probably not the build that zetus encountered; He probably encountered a Countless condi bomb Mesmer.. 10/25/10/0/25

Why is this build good?
Solid 1v1 ability
Good AoE condies (Not as good as Necro)
Solid Sustained damage
Solid surviveability

Why’s it bad?
Meh Burst damage.
Hard-Counterable by Well Played Condi-Warrior.
Relies on Condition damage, even sometimes confusion damage mistakes
in anti condi-meta.

Its usually 20/20/30 but there are variations. Its a kitteny build to fight honestly, sustained damage is ok, survivability is high. I generally don’t lose to melee when I play mine, however the trick to beating them is to not kill the clones. Impossible if you have any cleave on your weapon. Clones produce the conditions, without clone death, dps goes from ok sustained to poor. The classes that have given me the most trouble are, believe it or not, power rangers. They have no cleave:D. And as other posters have pointed out condition overload (usually engineers, for some reason I can handle necro’s more often than not)

dylan.5409:

Its usually 20/20/30 but there are variations. Its a kitteny build to fight honestly, sustained damage is ok, survivability is high. I generally don’t lose to melee when I play mine, however the trick to beating them is to not kill the clones. Impossible if you have any cleave on your weapon. Clones produce the conditions, without clone death, dps goes from ok sustained to poor. The classes that have given me the most trouble are, believe it or not, power rangers. They have no cleave:D. And as other posters have pointed out condition overload (usually engineers, for some reason I can handle necro’s more often than not)

So you’re saying essentially that single-target builds are actually the better scenario for fighting these? Hah I’ve never had to focus on NOT trying to AoE close ^^;;,
The problem though, is that when all 3 clones are up the heal from the mesmer will heal for full health.

I guess it’s really just not within the capabilities of my class to overload with conditions, given that I’m already playing in a way that conditions are my specialty.

For those of you talking about killing iDuelists, the spec the OP is referring to probably isn’t using offhand pistol as commonly as offhand torch with sword mainhand and staff. Extremely high chaos armor uptime via combos from torch 4, sword 3, and staff 4. High stealth uptime from torch 4 and decoy util + mass invis, and add prismatic understanding to that for ridiculous aegis/regen/protection uptime. Two instacast teleports if using blink.

It’s a pain to deal with considering the conditions, and these mesmers aren’t easy to burst down even on the odd chance that you’re finally able to pin them down for a little while (which doesn’t happen often).

I actually play a trap Ranger as well and usually I bail when faced with cond mesmers:D. There is a range at which its safe to kill the clones, not sure if 600 is far enough though. Worth testing, still would be difficult without dps from traps. A high dps pet does help as well. My cat has killed a few while I bounced around with sword ^-^

jportell.2197:

evilapprentice.6379:

jportell.2197:

Zetus.1476:

I’ve been noticing a build that’s virtually unkilleable (we’re talking needing around 3 people). Lots of condi damage, invisibilities and coming out of invis at full health.

How do you people deal with this? There’s no counter for invisibility and it’s chewing at my insides everytime I run into this build.

They don’t do much damage and they don’t cap a point… it’s basically a 4v5

In my experience, this is the far from the truth – they do very solid damage. running 10/0/0/30/30 S/D-shbow thief, they’re one of the few specs I have yet to figure out. Against equal skill level, I usually lose. Mind posting a spec so I can take a look at it?

its usually 20/20/30/0/0 they melt really fast to consistent condi pressure. It really isn’t that great if you have them on you team because they don’t actually cap a point. So you have to outlast and burst… They aren’t tanky at all.

I run 202030, have no troubles capping points, melt people, and 2780 armor. Insane condition cleanse, as well. Thanks

To the op, burst down the iduelist and phamtasmal mage from range if possible. If you can’t then dodge when the iduelist unloads and burst burst burst on the mes. If you can’t you need to find something else to cap or bunker

Gallrvaghn.4921:

A large chunk of condi damage comes from iDuel bleed procs (confusion proc if traited and combos with pink fields), staff clones, and Chaos Storm. As Eurantien said, killing the iDuelists and clones ASAP is key. Of course you don’t bash around killing it within melee since it is highly likely that they will throw more conditions and confusion on you when these illusions are killed.

Nope, Duelists aren’t the worst thing to get hit by, the worst thing you can get hit by is the Torment from Sceptre 2. Once that hits you, you better have condi cleanse because it’s just downhill from there.

evilapprentice.6379:

jportell.2197:

evilapprentice.6379:

jportell.2197:

Zetus.1476:

I’ve been noticing a build that’s virtually unkilleable (we’re talking needing around 3 people). Lots of condi damage, invisibilities and coming out of invis at full health.

How do you people deal with this? There’s no counter for invisibility and it’s chewing at my insides everytime I run into this build.

They don’t do much damage and they don’t cap a point… it’s basically a 4v5

In my experience, this is the far from the truth – they do very solid damage. running 10/0/0/30/30 S/D-shbow thief, they’re one of the few specs I have yet to figure out. Against equal skill level, I usually lose. Mind posting a spec so I can take a look at it?

its usually 20/20/30/0/0 they melt really fast to consistent condi pressure. It really isn’t that great if you have them on you team because they don’t actually cap a point. So you have to outlast and burst… They aren’t tanky at all.

I’d have imagined they were something more like 0/20/30/20/0 with Rabid – constant access to regen, protection and aegis with multiple stealths that leave pets to continue doing damage for you while you’re healing/repositioning. Pets that punish you for hitting/killing them. Why go 20 domination?

My spec has sustain, but not so much burst – I think this spec is just a soft counter for mine.

That was the spec I ran for a long time. And it’s not as condi ish as say a 20/20/30/0 because of condi duration. Or 0/20/30/0/20 for extra condi.

I am also wondering what to do against these. Coming from a WvW standpoint i have seen these mes take on groups of 3-4 players and end up in a stalemate because nobody can get a hold of them. I never lose to them but i always end up having to walk away and it is just very annoying to fight. If i am fighting against a mes with friends then they become very dangerous, especially when running perplexity runes. I know this is a pvp thread, but this is the only post i see for these mesmers and theya re really bogging me down. The biggest issue is the upkeep they have on invis and boons. I mean i’m a thief and they stealth more than I do -.-

don’t kill clones, and also use range

clones don’t do damage, just find the right mesmer, call target and call someone else in to help, or simply use your power elsewhere.

really hard to beat a good mesmer 1v1 with this spec

Divinity.8041:

don’t kill clones, and also use range

clones don’t do damage, just find the right mesmer, call target and call someone else in to help, or simply use your power elsewhere.

really hard to beat a good mesmer 1v1 with this spec

Exactly. Its a dueling spec that will waste your time.

jportell.2197:

They don’t do much damage and they don’t cap a point… it’s basically a 4v5

Sad but true. Ignore them.

Heizero.9183:

I never lose to them but i always end up having to walk away and it is just very annoying to fight.

Walking away is winning. All this build can do is waste your time.

There have been a few specs thrown around here, so I guess you can do condi Memser many ways but the spec I know – and use with success – is Countless’ build. Off the top of my head it’s 10/20/10/0/20.

Specing into condi damage and then making clones dish out cripple, confusion and a random condi when they die hurts like a kitten. Not to mention the bleed on crit.

Basically the Memser wants to get in your face and blow up clones – either by you killing them or just by creating new ones.

So yeah, the best way to deal with these mesmers is to leave the clones alone and pressure the Memser. Kill the iDueliest and use LoS so the Memser can’t make more clones.

‘Find the real mesmer’ actually applies for once.

I run 0/30/10/0/30 (sw/p and staff with Rampager’s amulet and Zerk jewel) and I consider myself pretty good at killing peeps. But burst is very effective against us, I got most problems with D/P thieves, mainly because they have more stealth than me and have time to pick the real mesmer.

i actually just ran into one of these. its been a while since ive done much with pvp so i did a few yolo queues.

anyway, there was one on the other team. i swear they put up conditions almost as quick as necros. sure i was on my warrior, and the build ive been using lately is really cleave heavy, so that may have had something to do with it. but they really can melt you down pretty quick, and as it was mentioned before, they are hard to burst down. i dont play mesmer, so i have no idea what build they could have been using. all i know is that sword was in one of their weapon sets and they definitely weren’t using a staff for their other one. i want to say scepter, but it was kind of hard to tell. pistol was definitely involved too.
hope that helps some.

There are actually a number of variants of this for Mesmer. All of them are designed around Prismatic Understanding. Long stealth durations + gaining random boons in stealth makes them super hard to kill. The weapons that the Mesmer runs actually are the key to figuring out counter play, and for just about all of them you need to have the ability to cleanse frequently and DPS from range or burst multiple targets quickly.

I have seen Sc/T, St; Sc/T, Gs; Sw/t, Sc/P and Gs/St all be fairly well executed. In the hands of a good player you are very unlikely to kill any of them (until assistance arrives), but like others have said they don’t contest points well because they are so stealth reliant. I used to run one of these for a bit actually. The key to outplaying them is patience. If you get greedy and try to kill fast, then they will kill you. Best thing to do is hold the node while killing off the most dangerous of their illusions in quick bursts followed by cleanses, and target the Mesmer when he is both visible and low on illusions. If you can force him to heal while visible you have a window to rupt and hopefully down him, but that is really your best shot.

Things to know for that fight:

Traited iDuelists are wicked dangerous if they are running a pistol variant. Target them with extreme prejudice.

Gs clones can stack up to 3 bleeds per attack on a Rabid variant and they attack more frequently than phantasms. You need to kill them or LoS them as much as you can, but never kill any illusion until you have a cleanse available and can kill more than one relatively quickly. With an S/D thief you should save initiative for a lot of #2’s and not bother with trying to strip the Mesmer boons, because he will out apply your stripping capacity. Also, don’t attack through Chaos Armor, ever.

MH Sword clones suck at applying conditions, so they will try to either shatter them (for confusion stacks) or overspawn illusions so you eat conditions on the clone death.

Learn the animation for scepter #2 block and don’t fall for it. That skill can wreck you.

Staff clones are annoying, but are only dangerous if you kill one at a time or they have a bunch of them up at the same time. Ignore one that is alone, but kill multiples when you have a cleanse available for after you kill them.

As an S/D thief you shouldn’t struggle with holding a point against these PU builds unless you are too aggressive. Wait them out and self-preserve. They will either exhaust their stealth CD’s and leave an opening for you, or be stuck waiting until your team or their team reinforces.