Guild Wars 2

Hey guys, my name is Ably and I’ve mained thief since beta. I can usually kill any average mesmer player with ease purely because of my class and the way it counters mesmers, but every time there is a condi mesmer on the other team I am forced to run away from it. Maybe it’s my limited understanding of the way the mesmer class works, or the sheer amount of condis the build drops on me, but I am almost NEVER able to 1v1 a condi mesmer. Any tips? Thanks in advance.

Depends on the mesmer. I’d say that there are 2 or 3 types of condition mesmers.
First which I believe are the strongest: Maim the disillusioned shatter. These mesmers will focus on massive clone production to shatter them for torment and confusion. It’s likely for these mesmers to play scepter torch + staff. They will depending on their skill they can spike you with insane high torment stacks (up to 17 isn’t that hard). When you see them shatter, dodge in the direction where the illusions come from. It’s the best way to avoid as many shatters as possible with a single dodge. Another important thing is to avoid the scepter block skill. Whe the mesmer blocks with the scepter he’ll cast a skill which hits you with 5 stacks of torment. You can avoid it by dodging right after the mesmer blocked your attack. Another thing you can do is deny shatters by cleaving down the illusions before the mesmer shatters them (don’t focus your play on that though).

The second way of playing condi mesmers is a passive playstyle which focuses on illusions to inflict the conditions (on crit). These mesmers will try to summon illusions like staffclones or duelists which hit more often and have a higher chance to crit. You can simply kill their damage sources. Be aware! Some of them also have clonedeath traits, these inflict conditions on aoe around a killed clone.

Last class are these who focus on clonedeaths. They will trynto have their illusions be killed to get you down. They’re getting removed so don’t worry

~Me Games Ma
PS: sry for bad typus, i’m on my phone

Depending on your build, condie mesmer(every kind) can be very hard to fight 1v1. But similarly to condie ranger who also excels in 1v1, their teamfight potential is lacking. Even though they spec for condie, they are still squishy and can be taken out by sneaky attack in team fights.

Additionally, many condie mesmers actually lack condie removal themselves and can be wrecked by other condie builds.

I’m a condi mesmer who has a fairly easy time with thieves like you.

First thing to know is that condi mesmers are tankier than your average shatter mesmer. They’re not zerker and can last longer against your burst, giving them time to react.

Second thing to know is that condi mesmers’ weapon sets have more “anti-thief” skills. For instance, Scepter’s #2 is a powerful condition block which, when predicted, can immediately hit you as you try to burst[maybe try to wait it out or change your timing a bit?] and Scepter’s #3 is a channelled confusion ray which can track through stealth. This isn’t mentioning torch or staff’s AoE and escape skills.

The best plan would likely be bait out the defensive skills like Prestige and Scepter’s block and maybe Chaos Storm and burst then. MtD counters thieves well, so the only real strategy is to force some skill usage and outlast them as they waste CD trying to kill you.

Usual Sw/D perma evade counters MtD condition shatter pretty well.

Key thing is to dodge/evade the shatters, just lime with power shatter. As said above, don’t expect to burst the Mesmer down quickly, so be prepared for several attempts and the need to avoid condition application.

Once the patch hits you won’t need to worry about clone death anymore, so the main things will be condtioj interrupt, condition shatter and condition phantasm (or hybrids/mixtures).

Learn the key condition application skills and how to avoid them (eg scepter block, shatters, magic bullet/iduelist burst, staff aa, prestige burn)… Staff aa is difficult, but shatters, phantasm bursts and iCounter should be avoided at all costs.

Might as well add that depending on how they build, running may be your best option as if they go really bunker, they can’t chase you and you are probably not going to kill them. The build can be done is such a way that it’s entire purpose is to kill people who try to kill the mesmer. Unless you have zero condi clear you can leave them alone and be pretty ok. A condi mesmer will (usually) only really jack you if you try to pressure it too hard.

If someone came here and said “Hi please give me a build where if someone tries to kill me they can’t and I probably kill them” almost everyone would tell them to go with some condi build, and not necessarily PU either anymore. Probably half the people you are fighting have built specifically to be ungankable by thieves.

MSFone.3026:

Might as well add that depending on how they build, running may be your best option as if they go really bunker, they can’t chase you and you are probably not going to kill them. The build can be done is such a way that it’s entire purpose is to kill people who try to kill the mesmer. Unless you have zero condi clear you can leave them alone and be pretty ok. A condi mesmer will (usually) only really jack you if you try to pressure it too hard.

This is really important for you to note. Its important to know when to run, and thats NOT when you are almost dead from condis. If you wait til then, you are almost certainly dead, barring something that can wash all the condis off fast. If you wait until you are near death, you likely ARE dead. Running when you still have some breathing room is the better alternative, planning on surviving the stacks of condis on you.

For example, in one fight I had, in pvp, the thief, I had LOTS of condis of several kinds on him: bleeding, burning, confusion, torment, vulnerability, etc etc, and many stacks of each, and his health was very low; he used Shadow Refuge and disappeared. I was trying to figure out where he was, but he was gone quite some time. I thought he’d run off, started to turn away, and then he suddenly appeared out of nowhere, downed, right in the heart of where his shadow refuge had been. He was cloaked quite some time, but still died at my feet.

And the problem is, if you’re running, and you have several condis on you including torment, the running is going to kill you even faster.

So if you even think that you might run, you need to keep a condi remover available to save your backside if and when you do turn.

The other option, of course, is to fully commit 100%, give up the idea of running, and try to get him down first, saving your condi cleanses to save your life in the fight instead of for the run. It can be done, but the fight won’t be as easy as they are against most other mesmer builds by a long shot.

I think one general rule when fighting condition builds in general is to keep your distance. Most condition builds rely on relatively short range or telegraphed abilities to become seriously threatening. Or in the case of clone death builds, it’s the illusions, who you simply should keep your distance from.

That might not seem very appealing with a power based thief, but shortbow can be quite effective. If you go close, do it only for a short burst and then gain your distance again.

TyPin.9860:

I think one general rule when fighting condition builds in general is to keep your distance. Most condition builds rely on relatively short range or telegraphed abilities to become seriously threatening. Or in the case of clone death builds, it’s the illusions, who you simply should keep your distance from.

That might not seem very appealing with a power based thief, but shortbow can be quite effective. If you go close, do it only for a short burst and then gain your distance again.

Most thieves cant stay away from closing range to go all zerker on the mesmer’s butt though, lol

Thanks for stopping by! Unfortunately, condi Mesmer kind of evens the playing field against thief. That being said, an equally skilled thief vs Condi Mes should still lead to a thief victory 60% of the times.

Since I maim Condi Shatter, I’ll give you some advice based on my encounters:

• Use your condition clears only when you’ve been “bursted” with confusion/torment. It takes a lot of ramp-up time for any condition Mesmer to be threatening. If you can clear the stacks, it gives you an opening for offense while we try to desperately ramp it back up.
• Don’t panic and smash keys when heavily confused. As Fay has coined, confusion is an “idiot-tax” but kind of easy to avoid if you’re patient due to the generally low duration. Mesmer is a pretty under-powered class that thrives on other players panicking and making petty mistakes. Don’t be that person that dies to confusion, because confusion really sucks as a condi. lol
• Keep your distance. Weave in and out while using stealth efficiently. If you keep your distance, it will be easier to dodge clones trying to shatter. The condi Mesmer loves a good melee 1v1 as this is where Scepter2/Staff145 excels. [Good] Thieves can usually out maneuver me if they come in and out of melee effectively in order to bait our “burst”.

This is all based on a power thief. If you’re a condi thief, then you should probably have a 80% win rate considering 50% of condi Mesmers don’t take condi clear themselves. I actually take Feedback instead of a condi clear these days…

Please come back for further discussion. I’m kind of in and out of hiatus, but if you would like to practice, mail me in game!! <3

everyone put good points

few left out

i have thief friend who had this problem in pvp so i dueled him 10 times and now i cant bit him

mesmer use thier clones to proc conditions thus you must learn their behavior
1. shatter – they will run to you if you far from them. so 2 options . run further or dodge in their faces. if the mesmer is smart and close to you 130 ft. he will proc fast clones like with MI and shatter so be very careful when you see 2 clones next to each other. also anther best way to prevent shatter is by blind so with d/p use pistol 5 when you see shatter is coming.

d/p can take any mesmer (maybe not PU but wont lose to it) just by using smartly blind field and stealth and few bs or aa)

2. clones condition – staff clone is most dangerous with burning and bleeding. killing 1 wont help you much and mesmer can proc them easily . thus put heavy pressure on the mesmer with daze, stun to make him use his escape utilities and stealth abilities.

so as you see you need more stealth time and more blind field and more patient for the right moment to burst

with good practice you will be in 50% win ratio

MailMail.6534:

Thanks for stopping by! Unfortunately, condi Mesmer kind of evens the playing field against thief. That being said, an equally skilled thief vs Condi Mes should still lead to a thief victory 60% of the times.

Since I maim Condi Shatter, I’ll give you some advice based on my encounters:

• Use your condition clears only when you’ve been “bursted” with confusion/torment. It takes a lot of ramp-up time for any condition Mesmer to be threatening. If you can clear the stacks, it gives you an opening for offense while we try to desperately ramp it back up.
• Don’t panic and smash keys when heavily confused. As Fay has coined, confusion is an “idiot-tax” but kind of easy to avoid if you’re patient due to the generally low duration. Mesmer is a pretty under-powered class that thrives on other players panicking and making petty mistakes. Don’t be that person that dies to confusion, because confusion really sucks as a condi. lol
• Keep your distance. Weave in and out while using stealth efficiently. If you keep your distance, it will be easier to dodge clones trying to shatter. The condi Mesmer loves a good melee 1v1 as this is where Scepter2/Staff145 excels. [Good] Thieves can usually out maneuver me if they come in and out of melee effectively in order to bait our “burst”.

This is all based on a power thief. If you’re a condi thief, then you should probably have a 80% win rate considering 50% of condi Mesmers don’t take condi clear themselves. I actually take Feedback instead of a condi clear these days…

Please come back for further discussion. I’m kind of in and out of hiatus, but if you would like to practice, mail me in game!! <3

I tend to take either null field or arcane thievery for condi. Usually the latter, esp as thieves love to do that ssteal and get every boon on the planet… take three at least, plus giving him back the condis he gave me.

I sometimes take null field instead, but offensively its easily avoided. on the other hand, defensively, along with slapping down a chaos storm if he comes in at me anyway, is a nice duo.

Thanks for the tip Morfedel. Currently, I use Feedback 85% of the time (Wars, Rangers, some thieves, GS Guards, Necros) and Nullfield the other 15%, but I don’t typically take the latter for condi clear. I take it when facing a composition full of potential boon stackers like eles/guards/engis. A good time Null with shatters can demolish all of their boons on a point.

In my recent ranked experience, conditions haven’t been a big issue which is why I don’t take it. On the chance that I encounter a condi enemy, I quickly let my team know that I can’t with 100% confidence handle them. Feedback takes care of condi mesmers well sometimes though.