Guild Wars 2

When you’re a thief? What are things you need to watch out for/do in order to stand a chance?

What kind of build are you running?

S/D and shortbow. Traits: 30/30/5/5/0. Utilities: infiltrator’s signet, Signet of Shadow, shadow refuge. 3200 power, 40% crit, 65% crit damage, 17k HP 2500 armor

Only thing I have no problem with is running away from the mesmer after I fail to kill him.

Dodge into the clones. Stay on the real mesmer, which isn’t always easy to do. You can use the clones for easy c/d for stealth, since they are usually either on top of you or stationary.

GC Mesmers frequently have bad condition removal, so the poison field from the shortbow can be useful.

Is there a way to tell which one is the real mesmer?

TooBz.3065:

Dodge into the clones. Stay on the real mesmer, which isn’t always easy to do. You can use the clones for easy c/d for stealth, since they are usually either on top of you or stationary.

GC Mesmers frequently have bad condition removal, so the poison field from the short bow can be useful.

mesmer have to good mobility in fight for stay in poison field

Is there a way to tell which one is the real mesmer?

clones dont have offhand weapon, only real mesmer have food, only real mesmer can dodge

drongas.4189:

clones dont have offhand weapon, only real mesmer have food, only real mesmer can dodge

• Recently I’ve noticed opposing clones don’t have a guild tag
• Movement gives away a Mesmer quickly
• Look for dodges, strafing, moving side-to-side, etc
• Ranged clones are stationary unless you move too far away
• Look at the buffs
• If you’re in a group, mark the real Mesmer
• If the Mesmer stealths, look for them a few seconds later
• Only the real Mesmer can cast spells. Clones only auto-attack

knackyknave.7469:

drongas.4189:

clones dont have offhand weapon, only real mesmer have food, only real mesmer can dodge

• Recently I’ve noticed opposing clones don’t have a guild tag
• Movement gives away a Mesmer quickly
• Look for dodges, strafing, moving side-to-side, etc
• Ranged clones are stationary unless you move too far away
• Look at the buffs
• If you’re in a group, mark the real Mesmer
• If the Mesmer stealths, look for them a few seconds later
• Only the real Mesmer can cast spells. Clones only auto-attack

I guess I haven’t been paying attention but I find it hard to believe clones don’t have guild tags.

Considering that almost everyone is in a guild, that seems to me like a dead giveaway most of the time!

Does it also apply when they’re in downed state?

Real Mesmer is pretty easy to spot – he will either dodge, cast fast or run in circles and such. Clones are pretty dumb, they only auto-attack.

Problem with S/D build is that it does not have enough damage to finish things fast and the longer the fight goes on the more powerful Mesmer will usually become, he will have all his phantasms up, his important cooldowns he blew at the start will get back and so on.

Try to finish the fight ASAP, the more you prance around with shadowsteps, the harder it will be for you.

Excalibur.9748:

Does it also apply when they’re in downed state?

In the downed state the real Mesmer has a big, red arrow over their head.

Often times you’re better off just bursting the Mesmer down rather than trying to stomp.

knackyknave.7469:

Excalibur.9748:

Does it also apply when they’re in downed state?

In the downed state the real Mesmer has a big, red arrow over their head.

Often times you’re better off just bursting the Mesmer down rather than trying to stomp.

Clones don’t have red arrow over their head?

A few things to remember: your stealth lasts way longer than a mesmer’s. Mesmer stealth is there just to get your attention on a clone. Mesmer’s are not mobile enough to stealth and run far away, so expect him to pop up in vision soon. Because of this, I (as a mesmer) tend to try and go behind the enemy after I stealth, so they don’t immediately see me.

Also my number one problem as a mesmer vs thief is that even if I am winning, the thief can just pop some stealths and run away. You should never lose a battle versus a PVT mesmer. However berz mesmer’s built well can burst you down right away. Always try and dodge the illusionary leap, which is the sword illusion that goes flying at you. It will immobilize you, and give room for a shatter burst. Also if you see clones running at you, they are likely trying to shatter. If you stealth, they will lose target.

Always stomp a mesmer, don’t try and burst them down as the above poster said. All you need to do is do the initial stomp, wait for them to invis, wait for the clone to pop up, then wait for the real one to pop up. The real one will usually appear second, and has the red downed symbol above it. If you wait too long, the mes and his clone will both be confusing you with each auto attack, and the downed #3 for mesmer does a lot of damage. Unless you allow time for mesmer to use his #2 a second time, he will not be able to escape your stomp. Also to note: the downed #2 for mesmer both stealths and teleports, but the teleport is random, not targeted like the theif’s.

Excalibur.9748:

knackyknave.7469:

Excalibur.9748:

Does it also apply when they’re in downed state?

In the downed state the real Mesmer has a big, red arrow over their head.

Often times you’re better off just bursting the Mesmer down rather than trying to stomp.

Clones don’t have red arrow over their head?

Also in the Mesmer’s down state, when they do their clone teleport thing, the real mesmer always appears last.

drongas.4189:

TooBz.3065:

Dodge into the clones. Stay on the real mesmer, which isn’t always easy to do. You can use the clones for easy c/d for stealth, since they are usually either on top of you or stationary.

GC Mesmers frequently have bad condition removal, so the poison field from the short bow can be useful.

mesmer have to good mobility in fight for stay in poison field

Is there a way to tell which one is the real mesmer?

clones dont have offhand weapon, only real mesmer have food, only real mesmer can dodge

They don’t have to stay in the poison field, poison hurts the ability to heal. You just have to hit them with it and I think they will be poisoned for 5 seconds. It can also be used to limit mobility.

knackyknave.7469:

drongas.4189:

clones dont have offhand weapon, only real mesmer have food, only real mesmer can dodge

• Recently I’ve noticed opposing clones don’t have a guild tag
• Movement gives away a Mesmer quickly
• Look for dodges, strafing, moving side-to-side, etc
• Ranged clones are stationary unless you move too far away
• Look at the buffs
• If you’re in a group, mark the real Mesmer
• If the Mesmer stealths, look for them a few seconds later
• Only the real Mesmer can cast spells. Clones only auto-attack

Clones do have guild tags. You might have been fighting a mesmer out of a guild.

S/D thieves actually have it alot easier against mesmers than D/D or D/P. As long as your are stealthed, he can’t cast phantasms on you and if you land the sword #1 daze, he also can’t. Try to lock him down by leaving as little time as possible between stealth and dazes.

Excalibur.9748:

knackyknave.7469:

drongas.4189:

clones dont have offhand weapon, only real mesmer have food, only real mesmer can dodge

• Recently I’ve noticed opposing clones don’t have a guild tag
• Movement gives away a Mesmer quickly
• Look for dodges, strafing, moving side-to-side, etc
• Ranged clones are stationary unless you move too far away
• Look at the buffs
• If you’re in a group, mark the real Mesmer
• If the Mesmer stealths, look for them a few seconds later
• Only the real Mesmer can cast spells. Clones only auto-attack

I guess I haven’t been paying attention but I find it hard to believe clones don’t have guild tags.

Considering that almost everyone is in a guild, that seems to me like a dead giveaway most of the time!

Does it also apply when they’re in downed state?

In PVP a lot of times the clones don’t have guild tags but the real Mesmer does. Sometimes they don’t even have the profession tag…. This isn’t always but I have seen it happen on my clones and on enemy Mesmer clones.

Hi.

I dont play a thief alot, tetsed some to know the skills etc but I do play versus thiefs ALOT, i regulary duel thiefs with al different kinds of wep setup. Stubborn as I am I refuse to use the phantasm spec in 1 vs 1 as I think its op in a smal area but close to usless in amny other areas.

This leav my addition to this thread a bit one sided but I think I can add some things.

First, dont worry to much about the “find the real Mesmer”. Al the tipps are great but seriously after a few hundred fights with mesmers you click and attack the right one without realy know how. Its instinctive. A good player dont look for buff a or text y, he just know the right target without realy know why.

Problem is more the target drop as it risk one of your attacks timed wrong to land on a clone or just hit air. Also the good shatter mesmers dont care if you know witch one is the right target, he use immunitys and boon rotation to avoid dmg combined with mobility.

So how to beat him? Depends on hes gamestyle, most mesmers hate conditions so stack some help but the key is to put preasure. If you by preasure get the mesmer to 50% most players start play more defensive and spend more cd,s, keep preasure up and save up for a burst, at 50% if you get a chance send a full burst.

Some players also have hard handle shortbow spamming thiefs who kill the clones and put pressure. Keep kill clones and when hes low go in for a kill.

I also add a vid for some of my gameplay, this might give some tipps for how mesmers move in combat. The thiefs I fight here dont use same weps as you do buttry focus on how mesmer chaon boons and look for gaps in my defense, there si some times I exposed in the fights but the thief dont time a attack at thise moments.

/Osicat

Dude to learn how to fight against a mesmer.

Get a pure dueling shatter build friend and die lots of times

Best way to learn to fight vs shatter mesmer

These people are all very helpfull and stuff, but theyre forgetting the first step when fighting a mesmer, or any profession in that matter.
identify the build/weapons.
When theyre using a greatsword, they will shoot lasers which do muh mkre damage at high range, immediatally close he gap and stay on top of them. When they swap to their other weaponset you can go ramged again. If this weaponset has a seord and pistol, they will summon a phantasm that unloads on you, which you should somehow dodge.
In general there are 2 common builds pvp mesmers use, phantasm and shatter.
Phantasm mesmers try to stay away from you, they never use offensive shatters. Most of their damage comes from phantasms, so the best counter is to learn what their phantasm summoning animations are. Blinding the mesmer, going out of range or line of sight will put their phantasm on full cooldown and it wont be summoned.

And now shatter builds… It may seem like they kill you instantly with little to no setup, but thats not true!
The obvious tell an average mesmer gives: they use illusionary leap. Most mesmers will seap after doing this, immobilizing you and doing burst damage. There are several wats to couter this.
The best: dodge the leaping clone, no matter which build the mesmer is using, dodging this is always a good idea!
But if you get hit: make sure you always have a shadow return ready to get out of bursting range.
If ranged illusions run at you, them theyre likely going to shatter once theyre close enough. Dodge forward or stealth and they will miss.

If you have trouble learning on random mesmers you meet in pvp, you can th going to a 1vs1 pvp custom arena to spectate, or eve spectate in a normal match to see what they do! Or ou can watch a video of a mesmer playing to see what all the skils look like.

The average mesmer uses illusionary leap to tell you a burt is coming, focus on evading this, and after a while youll get used to t and it will go reflex based.

Hope this helps,
Alissah

Excalibur.9748:

knackyknave.7469:

drongas.4189:

clones dont have offhand weapon, only real mesmer have food, only real mesmer can dodge

• Recently I’ve noticed opposing clones don’t have a guild tag
• Movement gives away a Mesmer quickly
• Look for dodges, strafing, moving side-to-side, etc
• Ranged clones are stationary unless you move too far away
• Look at the buffs
• If you’re in a group, mark the real Mesmer
• If the Mesmer stealths, look for them a few seconds later
• Only the real Mesmer can cast spells. Clones only auto-attack

I guess I haven’t been paying attention but I find it hard to believe clones don’t have guild tags.

Considering that almost everyone is in a guild, that seems to me like a dead giveaway most of the time!

Does it also apply when they’re in downed state?

Yes and also when you down a mesmer, if they use the clone skill, the real mesmer appears second and he has a red arrow above him. So when they disappear when downed, ignore the first guy that appears.

Mesmers are vulnerable to conditions, even if you don’t run a condition build, having poison to reduce healing will hurt mesmer a lot.

As a thief you should have easy time vs a mesmer.

ManCaptain.3154:

As a thief you should have easy time vs a mesmer.

Very good advice in this thread, but I can’t agree with that parting quote. At least in sPvP it’s very few and far between for me, and I’m probably about pretty average as far as Mesmers go.

It’s pretty hard to beat a competent mesmer in 1v1, especially as a Thief IMHO. Every once in a while I run into a way above average skilled Thief who puts me in my place, but for that 1 guy I kill 10 others easily…and quite handily most of the time.

For an aging guy with somewhat slower reflexes, like myself, it’s just a matter of staying away from pure glass cannon builds, then I’m fine against Thieves. A semi-tanky shatter, Immortal, or a tanky phantasm build all do very well against Thieves in my experiences. Against those builds at least, I’d have to reiterate the above advice about stacking conditions. In a pure 1v1, those are the Thieves that give me the most trouble.

Lastly, it should be noted that it’s fairly hard for a Mesmer to escape a Thief, but —as you admitted-- not so the other way around.

The strongest 1v1 Mesmer builds are also pretty weak team builds, and the vast majority of fights simply are not “pure” 1v1s where both players are at 100% health with all toys up! In those instances the Thief has the advantage both offensively (attacking a target at <75% health), and defensively (being attacked while at <75% health).

In my experience a good 1 v 1 vs thief come down to which one of us time our stealth better. As a thief the KEY to beat mesmer is to CnD off the clones. The clones we make give a good thief unlimited target to stealth. When you do that you have time to pick out the real mesmer and attack him/her. Most mesmer builds lack heal so in the long term you will wear down the mesmer. I as a mesmer need to time my cc and burst in order to beat a thief who is good at cnd off my clones for me to do that I need to time my stealth so that I come out of stealth after the thief and hopefully catch the thief as he becomes visible to land my CC and burst.

Excalibur.9748:

Is there a way to tell which one is the real mesmer?

Clones stand still and so do most phantasms, the one constantly moving is the real one…..also easier to tell by looking for the one with buffs/signets under the health bar.
Mesmers like to stay out of range or behind you in 90% of occasions. I can kill most mesmers on my thief, but I run a P/D condi build, condis are great for dealing with most mesmers. I also like to fight fire with fire by using thieves guild and possibly the thief trap to confuse the mesmer as to which one to attack, its not going to confuse them too much, but constantly stealthing out will hopefully get them to accidently unload their clones/phantasms on your thieves instead of you.