(edited by blutstein.2468)
[Hybrid/Lockdown] Saracenas Butterflys
The Second Butterfly[WvW-Hybrid-PvE] [UPDATE OCT15]
Another clone spammer build with heavy focus on interrupts. And again (thanks Anet) one of the new runesets, the travelers runeset, fits perfectly.
I started the development of this build with berserk-gear and other non-condition-based traits, and while its perfectly playable, it doesn’t feel as rounded as it could be. So I tweaked and practised again and again, adding more and more condition dmg to the build. Then I decided to go with a rampager setup and after a few hours WvW i knew i finally found the right gear.
I’ve every profession at 80 (except warriors, they are soooo boring to play) and it helps alot to predict their actions for well timed interrupts. Its a very rewarding, reactive gameplay that punishes player for almost every action (2 blocks, confusion, torment, interrupts).
I play this traitsetup in PvE too, but the playstyle entirely changes if you don’t focus on interrupts.
TRAITS
[DOMINATION]
- (II) Halting Strike
Dmg on interrupt. Since the build centers around interrupts, its really nice. I’ve seen 4k Halting Strike Crits with full mightstacks.
[DUELING]
- (IV) Blade Training
Mandatory due to Sword/Sword-Setup – 20% CD Reduction.
- (IX) Duelist Discipline
20% CD Reduction and more Range. Perfect Phantasm for Hybrid builds due to direct damage attack with added bleeds
- (X) Deceptive Evasion
More Clones – more procs (minor GM Dueling, Chaos V). Core-Trait
[CHAOS]
- (V) Debilitating Dissipation
Clone spammer build, so self explanatory. Core-Trait
- (VIII) Bountiful Interruption
With Sword-Daze, F3 and Magic Bullet you get a whole lot of interrupt-procs. Fairly easy to maintain around 20 stacks Might Core-Trait
- (X) Prismatic Understanding
more boons, more survivability. I find that Decoy and MI are enough to justify PU, but sometimes I switch to Chaotic Interruption
UTILITIES
Always slotted is signet of domination. 3 Sec Stun (hard to land due to the casttime but hey, interrupts are handy). The other two depend on my traitssetup. If choosing PU -> Decoy, nullfield or Mantra of Resolve. If choosing CI -> blink, Mantra of Resolve, Mantra of Distraction for another interrupt.
RUNESET
Traveler runes
It covers one of the mesmer weakness and helps alot in WvW without the need of a focus
Alternatives:
For the hybrid setup, there are many valuable runesets. You can go for boonduration, might duration or any other runesets you feel the need for, even condition runes. But imho nothing beats the traveler-set.
(edited by blutstein.2468)
Updated and second build added.
Will gladly add this to the list of lockdown builds. I really like that second build, and am curious…
-What’s your mentality when going into a fight? Are you defensive or more aggressive?
- Have you tried Mantra of Distraction? I ran Signet of Dom for a while in Mind Crush before making the switch to MoD (and I really wish I could squeeze both into a build! )
- How’s your defense? Without a Staff and with so little toughness/vit it seems you’re more on the squishy side.
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Will gladly add this to the list of lockdown builds. I really like that second build, and am curious…
thank you Chaos, I’m glad you like it. Have you tried it out yet?
What’s your mentality when going into a fight? Are you defensive or more aggressive?
If I’ve the jump, I’m goin in very aggressive, usually with stealth (to buff me) or from range with scepter, but only to force some action… Usually I try to land my 2 blocks as soon as possible to add torment and 2 big hits + clone. But it really depends on profession (if thief i save my blocks for stealth reengages)
Have you tried Mantra of Distraction? I ran Signet of Dom for a while in Mind Crush before making the switch to MoD (and I really wish I could squeeze both into a build! )
MoD works fine too sometimes I run with 3 mantras (healing, MoD, MoR) and trait dmg. Since my clones applie their pressure mostly through explosions and conditions, buffing up my direct dmg isn’t that bad, but the constant recharging requires much more attention to the fight and therefore more downtime.
How’s your defense? Without a Staff and with so little toughness/vit it seems you’re more on the squishy side.
Two blocks on short CD, 2 stealth (+buffing me up), dazes and stuns (and mostly a halting strike on top of that) and most important – the constant weakness from clonedeath helps alot and makes the survivability far better as it seems at first glance.
1vsX is possible, but imho every player who comes up with a story of fighting 5 people at once (and wins), fights against noobs and/or afks and/or with a huge amount of pure luck.
Its extremly important to get used to interrupts and predicting enemy moves (especially the big hitters), it took me a while and its even more difficult if you don’t play other professions and don’t know their mechanics and moves. But its very rewarding and if well timed (and/or some luck you can interrupt-burst one down.
But you’re right, If i’m wvw and only run across groups and/or zergs (not that unusually on elona reach) I switch to a more defensive setup staff + Sw/Sw with traited staff and Furious Interruption (very underrated) or empowered mantras instead of PU and pistol trait. I used this setup first to get used to the build.
I am kind of dumb struck on how this build is good at 1 vs X. This build is genuinely cool, and it has so many awesome things within itself, but without blink and only 1 real source of constant stealth (decoy) you are bound to be chased down pretty badly against even 3 people. 2 people you might be able to handle, but it is still very very very tough in my eyes. Again, it is just my own opinion and nothing else. overall great and interesting build. If you can, explain how this build can take on multiple people. I would really like to know to better understand your PoV.
17k hp are too low in WvW for me, even with Defense Against Guards maxed.
I am kind of dumb struck on how this build is good at 1 vs X. This build is genuinely cool, and it has so many awesome things within itself, but without blink and only 1 real source of constant stealth (decoy) you are bound to be chased down pretty badly against even 3 people. 2 people you might be able to handle, but it is still very very very tough in my eyes. Again, it is just my own opinion and nothing else. overall great and interesting build. If you can, explain how this build can take on multiple people. I would really like to know to better understand your PoV.
imho no profession except thief due to reengages with full health is able to fight 3 people (that know what to do) at once. its very situational and depends on many circumstances for example: which professions? are they coordinated or synergise together? condi or dd? Its very reactive gameplay that follows no rotation or something. furthermore I try to maintain kind of a priority list:
- Phantasms as soon as possible and clones.
- Engage and look for interrupt. Usually I try to sword block, if no attack I throw it hoping for daze/interrupt. Well timed dodges are important too (don’t dodge only to get a clone, only if you are clearly on the upper hand). nearly everytime i land one or two interrupts before I even take dmg (boons and might up).
- torment block & kite (torment with 25 Stacks might is hurting alot). Due to constant refreshing of the through clonedeath applied first conditions, its not that easy to clean it with a single clean (there are very few condition wipes). Even if cleaned, the blocks are up again in no time (scepter block was slightly buffed last patch)
If people don’t be careful with their action (chasing me with torment and confusion for example), they go down very fast. - Look out for healings and always save a instant daze. they are the easiest interrupts with their animations and most people (even the good players i came across) tend to panic a bit if instead of their healing a halting strike hits.
- I got 2 sources of stealth (decoy, MI) Mi is mostly saved to escape.
keep in mind, if clonedeaths rolling, there are constantly weakness (very underrated), confusion and bleedings up. Usually I sit at 25 Stacks might in no time (BI, Sigil of battle). I’ve seen Sw blocks up to 8k, 4k haltings.
Its not a build to outlast your enemy. you get attacked aggressive, you punish aggressive. But you have to careful watch every action and don’t panic
I was not thinking of just 1 vs 2. I was thinking of like (2 vs 10+) or something. In those situations, going aggressive is futile. You just lose no matter what with this setup. That is what I was concerned about. How would you deal with that? If you were unlucky enough to become immboilized suddenly with no condi removal, you are in serious trouble and will probably die in the next few seconds.
2 vs 10 you loose no matter what you do perhaps you can lure some bad players out of the crowd, but seriously… if this would be possible with a build that isn’t made for such situations, i would stop playing wvw.
Sometimes I roam with my necrofriend and if we have the time to prepare us carefully, its managable to 2 vs 6… but again, only if 2 out of the 6 players don’t know what to do and hammer their skills when they are up.
(edited by blutstein.2468)
17k hp are too low in WvW for me, even with Defense Against Guards maxed.
feel free to add some survivability with PVT or Dire if you need to.
Pretty similar gear to what I’m using but totally different focus… interesting.
I’m 0/20/20/0/30, using staff and scepter/sword (2 blocks+leap) and a mix of carrion and rabid gear. I’m more focused on survival, so I don’t really have any chase tools besides blink (it works pretty well though).
I use CoF often to stack confusion, so I like to have the lower shatter recharge rate rather than more crit damage or toughness. I’ve been on the fence with Phantasmal fury since it only affects a few of your clones, but I can definitly see how iDuelist can get some mileage out of it. I usually go for the retaliation on block trait instead, or the sword specialist one.
Pretty similar gear to what I’m using but totally different focus… interesting.
I’m 0/20/20/0/30, using staff and scepter/sword (2 blocks+leap) and a mix of carrion and rabid gear. I’m more focused on survival, so I don’t really have any chase tools besides blink (it works pretty well though).
I use CoF often to stack confusion, so I like to have the lower shatter recharge rate rather than more crit damage or toughness. I’ve been on the fence with Phantasmal fury since it only affects a few of your clones, but I can definitly see how iDuelist can get some mileage out of it. I usually go for the retaliation on block trait instead, or the sword specialist one.
sure, 2 blocks are nice, but Sw offhand with Condiheavy build isn’t really good.
- phantasm entirely powerbased. Sure, you shatter it, but never the less dmg potential wasted.
- block entirely powerbased – yes, you block, but you hit like a wet noodle, aren’t you?
you would loose a block, but the pistol would be a much greater dmg source for your setup than sword…
Pretty similar gear to what I’m using but totally different focus… interesting.
I’m 0/20/20/0/30, using staff and scepter/sword (2 blocks+leap) and a mix of carrion and rabid gear. I’m more focused on survival, so I don’t really have any chase tools besides blink (it works pretty well though).
I use CoF often to stack confusion, so I like to have the lower shatter recharge rate rather than more crit damage or toughness. I’ve been on the fence with Phantasmal fury since it only affects a few of your clones, but I can definitly see how iDuelist can get some mileage out of it. I usually go for the retaliation on block trait instead, or the sword specialist one.
sure, 2 blocks are nice, but Sw offhand with Condiheavy build isn’t really good.
- phantasm entirely powerbased. Sure, you shatter it, but never the less dmg potential wasted.
- block entirely powerbased – yes, you block, but you hit like a wet noodle, aren’t you?
you would loose a block, but the pistol would be a much greater dmg source for your setup than sword…
Yeah, the sword skills aren’t too great for a condition build. I might give the pistol a try. Do you think it’ll still be better if I’m not in full rabid gear and focusing on the illusion line rather than dueling? The range increase from the pistol trait is nice, but Illusion 25 gives pretty much the same advantage otherwise.
Yeah, the sword skills aren’t too great for a condition build. I might give the pistol a try. Do you think it’ll still be better if I’m not in full rabid gear and focusing on the illusion line rather than dueling? The range increase from the pistol trait is nice, but Illusion 25 gives pretty much the same advantage otherwise.
I only focus on the Illusion line if I want a shatterspec or at least plan to shatter abit. At the moment I try a supportive lockdownbuild with heavy use of imbued diversion, but the awful CD of F3 even with 30 illusions is really annoying and not really reliable for a good lockdown build.
F1 is great, expecially with +20% dmg, but F2 sucks, F3 and F4 have more of a panicbutton, simply to long CD imho.
I only focus on the Illusion line if I want a shatterspec or at least plan to shatter abit. At the moment I try a supportive lockdownbuild with heavy use of imbued diversion, but the awful CD of F3 even with 30 illusions is really annoying and not really reliable for a good lockdown build.
F1 is great, expecially with +20% dmg, but F2 sucks, F3 and F4 have more of a panicbutton, simply to long CD imho.
I trait Illusion for 2 main reasons: Shorter cooldown on F4 and extra confusion stacks/duration on any shatter. I like your build (and I stole a couple of things from it :o), but I prefer having more control over when and where I apply my conditions by using shatters rather than depend on enemies to kill the clones.
I tried the imbued diversion thing too, but I could never make it work. It’s fun to dump a huge stack of vulnerability and daze on a group and it certainly has its uses, but it doesn’t really do any damage on it own. You need some coordinated backup to make it shine, I think.
(edited by calavel.6249)