Guild Wars 2

Hi Mesmer community.
Just putting out a random idea that has been floating around in my head for awhile now.
Been playing since launch but have quit GW2 for a a month now. Still read the forums every day (yea i know -.-) so just though I would contribute a bit back to it.

Main idea
Semi integration of the trait Illusionary Persona into the classes core mechanic enabling Mesmers to shatter on self without taking the trait.

Reason
Improve build diversity centering around shatter play style by opening up 10 trait points as you are no longer locked into the “mandatory” 0/20/0/0/30 with DE and IP but can now run 0/20/0/0/20 for DE and Illusionary Invigoration with 30 points left over for customization.

Now before people shout OP NEEDS NERF this would come with some big limitations to promote skillful play and to not reduce the importance of IP in current shatter builds. After all diversity is all about making choices and IP should still be an important trait to pick over any new builds that this change could bring.

Limitations

1: You can only shelf shatter if there are no clones alive. If the player has any clones out then the “self shatter” would not trigger and shatters would work like they normally do.

This means that if you want to self shatter while clones are alive or get the benefits of a 4 clone Mind Wrack/extended distortion you still need to take IP. It also promotes careful clone management if IP is not taken as to get a “self shatter” you need to either use two shatters to make sure the clones are no longer “Counted” as they run to the target or have no clones out at that current time.

2: The new “self shatter” is halved in damage and duration. Traits affecting shatters e.g Illusionary Retribution will still maintain normal duration and will not be halved .

Again this is to keep the importance of IP while making the integrated self shatter not overpowered. E.g going to stomp someone but distortion is now only .5 of a second making the timing more crucial same thing for big attacks/tells. Diversion is also .5 seconds meaning this would only be used for interrupts and not “Locking” someone out for 1 second giving you room to heal ect.

3: Using a shatter skill with no clones will self shatter but the CD doubled. Shattering with clones out dose not affect the CD. IP negates the increased CD reduction.

This is probably the biggest limitation and one I feel is necessary as it promotes a big risk vs reward for gaining access to our class mechanic without traiting for it or having clones out. Want to stomp someone and use distortion means a 120 second CD and 90 seconds on Diversion for interrupting that heal ect.

How this opens up build diversity
Enables new builds as with 10 more points to play with allows any GM trait to be picked while still maintaining the play style of shatter.
Also promotes careful management of shatter skill cool downs with Illusionary Invigoration or Signet of Illusions (Both 90 sec CD I believe from memory?).

Final thought’s
Although I wish to see something like my idea happen I am afraid based on the balance teams past record that to many bugs would be induced leaving shatters completely broken hence leaving it in the realm of Hypothetical would probably for the best 0.o
Also Thank you for reading

ehm , the halving the base shtter dmg is an issue, its alrdy hard to lvl a mesmer in normal ways..

anyway, there is more to the dmg of shatters halfed, i play a boon shatter and once i am confident that the build wrorks properly i am gonna make a build thread, its using the new trait that gives boons on shatters, its normal basic shatter game play just more team supportive , so more for small scale roaming or maybe even support zerging? anyway, halving base shatter dmg is a bad idea.

Hrm, I’d rather have shatter itself be stronger (let’s face it, the baseline shatter is way too weak before traits), and have “centred on me” be a specific shatter which does something around me instead of my target or on me.

I also think shatters on ourselves should be a core mechanic. It’ll bring us a not so AI-dependent playstyle.
But putting double CD on shatters without illusions and halved damage with no IP makes it worthless for shatter builds, better spend 2 points more and take Illusionary persona, just cause double CD’s cripples your build a lot and there’s no reason to take even any GM trait for that huge DPS lost.
Also, it bumps all other builds that are not centered in shatters, putting shatterbuilds in a worse situation.
Think about any OP PU build that also can activate shatters when they have no illusions… We don’t need more forum criers whining about how OP are mesmers.

Whoops sorry miss typed the half shatter damage. It was surpost to be on the. “self shatter” only not all “normal” shatters. I want to buff and expand shatter play not destroy it. Editing post now.
Also in reguards to the CD increase it would only apply if you shatter with no clones and without IP. Dose not need to be double but I feel as stated it would buff all other builds to a certain extent and the CD increase limits the buff to an extent where you need to trait / take a utility to overcome it . Remember it only applies if you “self shattered” without IP or clones and risk a heavy CD increase over the gain of an instant self shatter or take the time to generate a clone and shatter like normal.

I don’t quite get how this would shake up the metagame.

My understanding is that shatter mesmers mainly take IP for the “four-clone” shatter benefit. Many of the existing shatter-mez tricks involve stacking clones on yourself, so it’s not like you couldn’t play IP-less shatter if you didn’t mind your Mind Wracks sucking.

For builds that don’t go deep into Illusions, Deceptive Evasion is usually sufficient to have a single-clone shatter “on demand.” Greatsword and Staff both give you a pretty easy way to get a clone out for the short Distraction/Diversion.

I’m 100% agree and that’s really the only thing mesmer need to improve build diversity on pve\pvp\wvw.

I’ve already proposed this some months ago in pvp cdi.

My idea was similar to your.

A mesmer should always have shatter effects on itself. Ip should be used just to improve the effect results in way to hold the balance similar to now.

Basically:
1) every shatter base effect (dmg, cond stack,daze duration, immunity duration) should be decreased of 25%
2) shatter effect always on mesmer
3) ip increase shatter base shatter effect of 25%

Result:
a mesmer who doesnt have IP would do exactly same amount of dmg, same daze duration same confusion stack and same immunity duration as a mesmer who doesnt have ip right now BUT it will have the option to cast them without clones up (so no need of de)

A mesmer who take ip would do exactly same amount of dmg, same daze duration same confusion stack and same immunity duration as a mesmer who has ip right now.

So basically this isnt a buff, or a nerf, it would be exactly like initiative change for thieves or attunmente changes for ele Anet did some months ago to improve build diversity. I’m wonder why still Anet hasnt done the same for mesmer ip

Moving the IP on mesmer effect from the trait to mesmer itsself (changing value in way shatter effect rest the same right now without and with ip) would just allow mesmer to use different build.

The main reason top teams got only shatter mesmer its cause WE NEED IP ON MESMER EFFECT. It’s not they take ip cause ip is strong, it’s just you cant pvp at higher lvl without.

In wow or many other games when everyone is forced to take a certain trait, then that trait is usually moved into the base core class mechanic to improve build diversity.

It would be so nice to see that even on mesmer ip, there’s so much build outside there that wait just this change to become really viable

@ ASP
My aim is not to “Shake up” the meta per say but to Improve build diversity by giving more options without changing/affecting any existing builds or play styles in the process.

Just ideas that I can think of just off the top of my head are:
0/20/0/30/20 which would open Shattered Conditions and Restorative Illusions. This would open up shatter play style to support shatter builds while trading that support for damage as you could not d a full 4 clone mind wrack or have Mental Torment.

0/20/30/0/20
Opening up again support builds through Bountiful Disillusionment where you could self buff and then boon share without the need for clones or IP. before engaging in a fight. It would also open up shatter play style fully to PU builds which i am not 100% a fan of and i can see a few complaints coming from other classes but that is because of PU its self and not shatter.

@ aelfwe
While i like your idea the biggest complaint I have is you are affecting all builds that do not take IP with a 25% damage nerf to shatters which in turn makes IP even more mandatory for a power shatter builds. Where as my suggestion dose not affect any builds but opens up more options/playstyles.

TheSchryvers.6540:

@ aelfwe
While i like your idea the biggest complaint I have is you are affecting all builds that do not take IP with a 25% damage nerf to shatters which in turn makes IP even more mandatory for a power shatter builds. Where as my suggestion dose not affect any builds but opens up more options/playstyles.

sorry my eng is bad and i explain even worste but this not happens xD

i try to explain better,

NOW:
taking ip means 2 things:
1)you can shatter without illusions
2)your effect gain a 25% effect due to 4 illusion rather than 3

On general:
shatter efficency without ip=75%
shatter efficency with ip=100%

my propose is to split the 25% more efficenty on shatter effect and the ability to shatter without illusion.

So the new ip will ad 25% more dmg\daze duration\conf stack\distorsion duration WHILE the ability to shatter without illusion would become a core mesmer mechanic.

Now to show you that doesnt change anything take a mesmer how it is now:

Mind wrack without ip (3 clones) = 100% damage
Mind wrack with ip (4 clones) = 125% damage (cause you count as a clone)

My proposal:

Mind wrack without ip but you count as a clone (4 clones) = 125% damage – 25% base dmg reduction = 100% dmg

Mind wrack with ip adding the 25% dmg reduction (4 clones) =125% damage -25% base dmg reduction +25% dmg from ip = 125% damage

exactly same result as before.

Appling this method to each shatter effect you will have same min and max as now in both the situation (with and without ip).

I dont pretent this way to be the best one, your one is good too and i like it!

I want just to clarify what i wrote on cdi

aelfwe.4239:

On general:
shatter efficency without ip=75%
shatter efficency with ip=100%

my propose is to split the 25% more efficenty on shatter effect and the ability to shatter without illusion.

So the new ip will ad 25% more dmg\daze duration\conf stack\distorsion duration WHILE the ability to shatter without illusion would become a core mesmer mechanic.

Now to show you that doesnt change anything take a mesmer how it is now:

Mind wrack without ip (3 clones) = 100% damage
Mind wrack with ip (4 clones) = 125% damage (cause you count as a clone)

My proposal:

Mind wrack without ip but you count as a clone (4 clones) = 125% damage – 25% base dmg reduction = 100% dmg

Mind wrack with ip adding the 25% dmg reduction (4 clones) =125% damage -25% base dmg reduction +25% dmg from ip = 125% damage

exactly same result as before.

Appling this method to each shatter effect you will have same min and max as now in both the situation (with and without ip).

That makes a little bit more seance now thanks for the clarification

I still see an issue though in the 25% damage shift as you are only accounting for maintaining the min and max damage in a perfect shatter setup.

For example using your proposal without taking IP :

If it am on a person/enemy in melee range and I do a 3 clone shatter I get the same damage as a normal 3 clone shatter as all (3 clones) + (You) hit the target = no damage loss at all.

But here is where I now have a small issue as to maintain the same damage you Need to have the (un-tratited IP) hit and that only happens in Melee.

If you are doing a ranged shatter or the target is just outside your own shatter range you have (3 clones) – (You) = a loss in damage compared to how shatters work now.
This means a Nerf in (Ranged) shatter damage while keeping (Melee) shatters the same.

Not sure if this is intended or not or if i am overlooking something ??

Last thing, Do you think having this ability without any draw back/ limitations like I have put in with my suggestion will be to much of a buff to mesmers in general considering the current meta as I feel that it would be way to much ???

Anyway thanks for the reply

TheSchryvers.6540:

aelfwe.4239:

On general:
shatter efficency without ip=75%
shatter efficency with ip=100%

my propose is to split the 25% more efficenty on shatter effect and the ability to shatter without illusion.

So the new ip will ad 25% more dmg\daze duration\conf stack\distorsion duration WHILE the ability to shatter without illusion would become a core mesmer mechanic.

Now to show you that doesnt change anything take a mesmer how it is now:

Mind wrack without ip (3 clones) = 100% damage
Mind wrack with ip (4 clones) = 125% damage (cause you count as a clone)

My proposal:

Mind wrack without ip but you count as a clone (4 clones) = 125% damage – 25% base dmg reduction = 100% dmg

Mind wrack with ip adding the 25% dmg reduction (4 clones) =125% damage -25% base dmg reduction +25% dmg from ip = 125% damage

exactly same result as before.

Appling this method to each shatter effect you will have same min and max as now in both the situation (with and without ip).

That makes a little bit more seance now thanks for the clarification

I still see an issue though in the 25% damage shift as you are only accounting for maintaining the min and max damage in a perfect shatter setup.

For example using your proposal without taking IP :

If it am on a person/enemy in melee range and I do a 3 clone shatter I get the same damage as a normal 3 clone shatter as all (3 clones) + (You) hit the target = no damage loss at all.

But here is where I now have a small issue as to maintain the same damage you Need to have the (un-tratited IP) hit and that only happens in Melee.

If you are doing a ranged shatter or the target is just outside your own shatter range you have (3 clones) – (You) = a loss in damage compared to how shatters work now.
This means a Nerf in (Ranged) shatter damage while keeping (Melee) shatters the same.

Not sure if this is intended or not or if i am overlooking something ??

Nope you’re right, i just focus to hold min and max (no clones\3 clones) the same letting mid situation (ranged shatter or 1/2 clones) changing.

That’s why i told i like your suggestion, they’re better than mine

TheSchryvers.6540:

Last thing, Do you think having this ability without any draw back/ limitations like I have put in with my suggestion will be to much of a buff to mesmers in general considering the current meta as I feel that it would be way to much ???

Anyway thanks for the reply

I’m agree with you, i think that without ip a mesmer should be able to use shatter without clones but it need some limitation compared to a mesmer who has ip. Ip should just take off these limitation. Limitations without ip are required to have a balance and to improve build divesity. Totally agree with you!