Guild Wars 2

Frankly I can’t figure out where to start. The obvious answer, of course, is to start by rolling a mesmer, but I’d like to have some idea where I’m going. I get that leveling a mesmer is a pain, but the sheer number and variation of usable builds mesmer seems to have at max is overwhelming. While I assume there’s a meta dungeon build I can look up for that, when it comes to pvp and wvw it’s hard to figure out what kind of build will work out well for me. How do I sort through all this stuff without already knowing the ins and outs of the class?

Lyssa’s Grimoire

Official Mesmer Forum Guild

The first link is a very thorough and extensive guide to the mesmer and understanding it.

The second is a guild the mesmer community on the forums came together at. We have members to help others learn mesmer in various game modes, including PvP.

Right now, there are four general kinds of builds, as I understand it: Power Shatter[What some call a shatter mesmer. Aggressive playstyle and very strong when mastered], Phantasm[Just as it says, it uses phantasms to do its damage], Lockdown[Uses utility and weapon skills and shatters to interrupt the enemy and prevent them from attacking. CC heavy. Damage usually comes from a mix of phantasm and shatter. Similar style to power shatter. Can be done aggressively or steadily], and Condi Shatter[Relatively new with the Maim buff, but seems to have high potential. Tankier than power shatter, slightly more relaxed style but still very aggressive].

There’s also boonshare, which is super high-skill to do it well. It uses Signet of Inspiration and various skills to spread boons to allies and support the team. I’ve never successfully attempted it, so I can’t comment about the style.

Lyssa’s Grimoire and [OMFG](If you want to join) can help you with the build specifics, but I wanted to give you a basic summary to see if you had an idea of what you wanted to do off the bat instead of trying out everything as you learn about it.

Forums are great but I will point out and correct that Mesmers have only two.build types.

Shatter and phantasm

Shatter covers the meta PvP power shatter and the weaker cousin of condition shatters .

Pu and some of the other passive more bunker builds fall under phantasms.

Lockdown is a middle ground between the two but can easily lean one way or another.

We also only have about 3 or 4 base builds with minor variations on them to grab different perks or support different players.

These builds are shatter, pu, and lockdown. I’m sure I’m forgetting one but I’m at work and can’t search for it.

Find those and go from there

Swish.2463:

Forums are great but I will point out and correct that Mesmers have only two.build types.

Shatter and phantasm

Shatter covers the meta PvP power shatter and the weaker cousin of condition shatters .

Pu and some of the other passive more bunker builds fall under phantasms.

Lockdown is a middle ground between the two but can easily lean one way or another.

We also only have about 3 or 4 base builds with minor variations on them to grab different perks or support different players.

These builds are shatter, pu, and lockdown. I’m sure I’m forgetting one but I’m at work and can’t search for it.

Find those and go from there

Wat? This is completely false.

1st. Phantasam is a part of our class mechanic, every weapon set has a phantasm. Even shatter uses our phantasms for fodder.

You only say a build is a phantasm build if it is phantasm centered, no DE, Phantasmal strength and Empowering illusions and other phantasm strengthening traits. and uses phantasms as a source of the majority of damage that you do.

Pu Condi is not a Phantasm build because you do not trait for phantasm traits, you rely doing damage via sharper images and clone death traits. and conditions from clones

So do you mean condi bunker is a phantasm build? /wat

2nd. We have a lot of builds

Signet Build
Shatter
Interrupt/Lockdown
Glamour
Mantra support/Nuker
PU
Clone Death

All of these is unique on their own way. Do not get me started with these builds being viable or not. Some of them might not be the meta but I assure you they are viable depending on the user.

Please Stop spreading misinformation.

Phantasm generally means a build that uses clone and phantasm up time to generate its damage, or a build that neglects shatters.

we have a lot of builds but the majority pin around those two things.

do you abuse your F1-F4 skills or do you ignore them unless absolutely needed?

those are what will define a play style for a build tho weapons and utilities and traits can go further down the rabbit hole. From a top down/ newer player perspective I would think it would be easier to start from The key stone and move down into the murky waters that can become a signet build or a mantra / support / boon share/ ect..

Deciding if you want to focus first on learning how to place and leave your illusions up for the greatest effect or learning when to shatter to do the most damage or cause the most trouble.

I would say if you’re going to mostly level through general PvE someone new to a mesmer should lean towards Phantasm based builds or those that don’t focus on shattering such as PU or the Dungeon builds or a mantra build etc..

I listed the Big three tho i admittedly forgot Reflect for higher end PvE stuff which would make it the Big 4. The reflect build is technically just a Phantasm build tho highly specialized.

maybe we just need a better generalized name for Non-Shattering builds. Sorry for any confusion.

Swish.2463:

Phantasm generally means a build that uses clone and phantasm up time to generate its damage, or a build that neglects shatters.

Clones don’t do damage. Any decent mesmer whatever build he uses does not neglect shatters.

Clones used to do +damage beta days.

StickerHappy.8052:

Swish.2463:

Phantasm generally means a build that uses clone and phantasm up time to generate its damage, or a build that neglects shatters.

Clones don’t do damage. Any decent mesmer whatever build he uses does not neglect shatters.

Clones used to do +damage beta days.

clones apply conditions, last i checked bleeding still did damage

also sharper images only applies off of clones and phantasms.

but hey lets only take the first part of my post and run with that.

Swish.2463:

StickerHappy.8052:

Swish.2463:

Phantasm generally means a build that uses clone and phantasm up time to generate its damage, or a build that neglects shatters.

Clones don’t do damage. Any decent mesmer whatever build he uses does not neglect shatters.

Clones used to do +damage beta days.

clones apply conditions, last i checked bleeding still did damage

also sharper images only applies off of clones and phantasms.

but hey lets only take the first part of my post and run with that.

Conditions yes, But having clones deal conditions does not make it a phantasm build.

http://dulfy.net/2014/07/21/gw2-mesmer-pve-class-guide-by-sanderinoa/

Wouldn’t say is the best, but it’s a really good start. Read up

Or take the dive in approach.

• Find some weapons you like.

• Throw together a build

• Share it on the forums and ask how to make it work best (WvW/PvP)

• Then practice and watch vids for pro tips.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Or take the dive in approach.

• Find some weapons you like.

• Throw together a build

Don’t. There is no way it will end well.

Go phantasm while you learn.

witcher.3197:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Or take the dive in approach.

• Find some weapons you like.

• Throw together a build

Don’t. There is no way it will end well.

It’ll end just fine as long as they also follow the rest of what Ross suggested, which is posting it on the forum and asking for suggestions.

There’s no way that a first build will be highly effective, but what it’ll do is give you a feel for how the class plays, what sort of things you like and don’t like, and then provides a base for suggestions to build upon.

My friend, Welcome to mesmer world, It’s a rich and complex land of fun and enemies’ tears.

MY advice will focus on WvW, as that is where i am in game most of the time.

IF you plan on going to World Vs World with your mesmer, have a look at these videos!

http://www.tinyurl.com/howtomesmer

the first video is from Purple Wing in EU, his guide shows 1vX fighting with the meta builds for mesmer being Shatter, Condition and Power Phantasm, and this video shows how much fun it can be to play a mesmer in World Vs world while roaming solo or with friends.

This second video will show you how a full glkittenter mesmer (2/6/0/0/6) holds out in zergfighting with positioning and careful play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPb4dM78bvY

I hope these help, if you want another guide on shatter (my favorite) then check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APW_UEeiQRE

Fay.2357:

witcher.3197:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Or take the dive in approach.

• Find some weapons you like.

• Throw together a build

Don’t. There is no way it will end well.

It’ll end just fine as long as they also follow the rest of what Ross suggested, which is posting it on the forum and asking for suggestions.

There’s no way that a first build will be highly effective, but what it’ll do is give you a feel for how the class plays, what sort of things you like and don’t like, and then provides a base for suggestions to build upon.

I just don’t think the best way to teach someone how to write is by showing him all the letters without any explanation and then ordering him to write an essay.

He should get familiar with the current builds, learn to use them, understand the reasons behind traits/skills/etc. After that’s done, he can start experimenting on his own, but until then it’s pointless.

witcher.3197:

Fay.2357:

witcher.3197:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Or take the dive in approach.

• Find some weapons you like.

• Throw together a build

Don’t. There is no way it will end well.

It’ll end just fine as long as they also follow the rest of what Ross suggested, which is posting it on the forum and asking for suggestions.

There’s no way that a first build will be highly effective, but what it’ll do is give you a feel for how the class plays, what sort of things you like and don’t like, and then provides a base for suggestions to build upon.

I just don’t think the best way to teach someone how to write is by showing him all the letters without any explanation and then ordering him to write an essay.

He should get familiar with the current builds, learn to use them, understand the reasons behind traits/skills/etc. After that’s done, he can start experimenting on his own, but until then it’s pointless.

People are too reliant on guides and builds and whatnot. How do you think all of us that played before the guides existed did it? How do you think we made the guides, how do you think we made the builds?

I made my immortal build just on a bit of a whim, the vague idea of ‘what would happen if I made a Mesmer really tanky?’ It grew and evolved as I used it and refined it and perfected it, and eventually it became one of the most popular builds at the time, before Anet nuked it from orbit.

Don’t assume that people are just mindless drones that can’t learn and think for themselves. Not everybody needs to be spoon-fed every single game mechanic, and not everybody requires a dedicated seminar on mechanics to figure things out. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, at least to begin with.

Fay.2357:

witcher.3197:

Fay.2357:

witcher.3197:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Or take the dive in approach.

• Find some weapons you like.

• Throw together a build

Don’t. There is no way it will end well.

It’ll end just fine as long as they also follow the rest of what Ross suggested, which is posting it on the forum and asking for suggestions.

There’s no way that a first build will be highly effective, but what it’ll do is give you a feel for how the class plays, what sort of things you like and don’t like, and then provides a base for suggestions to build upon.

I just don’t think the best way to teach someone how to write is by showing him all the letters without any explanation and then ordering him to write an essay.

He should get familiar with the current builds, learn to use them, understand the reasons behind traits/skills/etc. After that’s done, he can start experimenting on his own, but until then it’s pointless.

People are too reliant on guides and builds and whatnot. How do you think all of us that played before the guides existed did it? How do you think we made the guides, how do you think we made the builds?

I made my immortal build just on a bit of a whim, the vague idea of ‘what would happen if I made a Mesmer really tanky?’ It grew and evolved as I used it and refined it and perfected it, and eventually it became one of the most popular builds at the time, before Anet nuked it from orbit.

Don’t assume that people are just mindless drones that can’t learn and think for themselves. Not everybody needs to be spoon-fed every single game mechanic, and not everybody requires a dedicated seminar on mechanics to figure things out. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, at least to begin with.

What Fay said.

Also I’ll add

• Take the time to read the trait and weapon skill descriptions while trying them out.

I’m not advocating throwing letters at a player without any context for them to make sense out of, nor does the game. It’s all there to read to get the basic handle of. It’s far more complex to hand someone a fully formed build and say “Here, play this” and expect them to not only operate the build out of hand, but also obtain a grasp of the entire class and all its possible faucets.

It’s actually far easier and more reasonable to ask a player for some simple concept of what they have in mind, and draw their attention to considerations they can study and investigate. “I wan’t to condition bunker”, “I want to solo roam WvW and I like power” are basic concepts an experienced tutor can use as starting points with which to teach. “Go play the current meta builds, 4, 4, 6, / 4, 4, 0, 0, 6 / 0, 6, 0 2, 6,” or whatever is a much more daunting task. Even with guides and vids. Sure, it’ll get a layman straight into the Mesmer action. You’ll often see players who main other classes take this approach when they get bored and want to dabble in a new class for a couple hours just for something new. But if you’re talking about introducing a player to a more thorough understanding with a deeper playing experience, there’s far better ways to go about it.

Fay.2357:

How do you think we made the guides, how do you think we made the builds?

Guides were made by people who were the first to figure things out. More than 2 years in, you seriously think people haven’t tested every possible build that could work? I doubt a newbie will suddenly find something entirely new that’s just perfect and will dominate everything. And if you let him come up with something unviable and just tell him to practice, how will he learn how to play? If he plays a build that nobody could earn success with, how will he know his skill level?

not everybody requires a dedicated seminar on mechanics to figure things out. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, at least to begin with.

Will you throw your kid into the lake and see if he figures out how to swim?

witcher.3197:

Fay.2357:

How do you think we made the guides, how do you think we made the builds?

Guides were made by people who were the first to figure things out. More than 2 years in, you seriously think people haven’t tested every possible build that could work? I doubt a newbie will suddenly find something entirely new that’s just perfect and will dominate everything. And if you let him come up with something unviable and just tell him to practice, how will he learn how to play? If he plays a build that nobody could earn success with, how will he know his skill level?

not everybody requires a dedicated seminar on mechanics to figure things out. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, at least to begin with.

Will you throw your kid into the lake and see if he figures out how to swim?

That depends. Does he get free unlimited respawns at the nearest Waypoint?

witcher.3197:

Fay.2357:

How do you think we made the guides, how do you think we made the builds?

Guides were made by people who were the first to figure things out. More than 2 years in, you seriously think people haven’t tested every possible build that could work? I doubt a newbie will suddenly find something entirely new that’s just perfect and will dominate everything. And if you let him come up with something unviable and just tell him to practice, how will he learn how to play? If he plays a build that nobody could earn success with, how will he know his skill level?

not everybody requires a dedicated seminar on mechanics to figure things out. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, at least to begin with.

Will you throw your kid into the lake and see if he figures out how to swim?

Guides were made by those who went out of their way to post their builds. You often see “I’ve been using this, too” or “I use something like this, with a few tweaks.”

And yeah, throw him in the lake. Give him the idea of how to swim, and the different strokes, and see what he comes up with. I went into PvP by doing my best creating a condition-phantasm build. It worked well enough, but it helped to teach me the skills I liked, how to use them, and what they could do.

I think it’ll do him well to make something of his own so he can figure the basics of mesmer PvP out himself. If he’s finding it hard, he can check out a guide, but it’ll be better at the beginning to learn in game instead of in a step-by-step text. Of course, we can help him get used to it, showing him effective combos, but it’s always better in-game than outside of the game.

At least, this is my opinion.

If I could speak for myself, the reason I’m asking for advice is that my usual jump-in approach didn’t work out the first couple times I tried to roll a mesmer, so I figured I might want to get the lay of the land this time.

From what I can tell, it seems like there are essentially 3 main types of builds for WvW roaming (one of the things I’m most interested in):

Power Phantasm
Power Shatter
Condi Phantasm

Is there one that I’m missing? What are the general strengths and weaknesses of each? Right now I’m looking for really macro-level information; some of the guides linked seemed to have great content on specifics, but I don’t really have the game knowledge where mesmer is concerned to make good use of it just yet.

Ink.9058:

If I could speak for myself, the reason I’m asking for advice is that my usual jump-in approach didn’t work out the first couple times I tried to roll a mesmer, so I figured I might want to get the lay of the land this time.

From what I can tell, it seems like there are essentially 3 main types of builds for WvW roaming (one of the things I’m most interested in):

Power Phantasm
Power Shatter
Condi Phantasm

Is there one that I’m missing? What are the general strengths and weaknesses of each? Right now I’m looking for really macro-level information; some of the guides linked seemed to have great content on specifics, but I don’t really have the game knowledge where mesmer is concerned to make good use of it just yet.

So you’re not quite accurate with what you’ve got here.

There’s really just one optimal choice for wvw roaming; PU condition builds. They’re tanky, they’re slippery, they have good sustain and can effectively kill people.

Power phantasm is incredibly dangerous to roam with. You can demolish camps+single roamers, but if you ever find yourself in a 1v2, you’ll almost definitely lose really fast.

Power shatter is awful for solo roaming because it has drastically fewer defensive options than the other builds mentioned. It is, however, extremely effective in a small group.

Condition phantasm isn’t really a thing at all.

Condition shatter has essentially the same pros and cons as power shatter, just a slightly different delivery method.

Ink.9058:

If I could speak for myself, the reason I’m asking for advice is that my usual jump-in approach didn’t work out the first couple times I tried to roll a mesmer, so I figured I might want to get the lay of the land this time.

From what I can tell, it seems like there are essentially 3 main types of builds for WvW roaming (one of the things I’m most interested in):

Power Phantasm
Power Shatter
Condi Phantasm

Is there one that I’m missing? What are the general strengths and weaknesses of each? Right now I’m looking for really macro-level information; some of the guides linked seemed to have great content on specifics, but I don’t really have the game knowledge where mesmer is concerned to make good use of it just yet.

This is what I’m talking about. By giving us just a little bit of information about where they’re at, and what they’re thinking, we’re able to properly address the situation.

That said, Ink, don’t take it personally. I’ve been talking theory with regards to anyone, not you specifically.

I didn’t take any offense, I just wanted to get the thread back on track rather than let it become a general argument on the relative merits of jumping in vs reading up.

@Fay: My mistake, I thought PU condition builds where a type of phantasm build. Is there a guide that covers how PU condi works I can read? Are there any decent options for power builds for roaming?

Fay.2357:

Condition shatter has essentially the same pros and cons as power shatter, just a slightly different delivery method.

I’d say condition shatter has a lot higher defence since you can use Rabid or Dire which both has high toughness, imo it’s pretty good build for roaming and optimal for oh-kitten-time-to-get-the-kitten-out-situations since torment tend to keep people from chasing you.

Works good on camps too since they don’t do any condition removal and chase you blindly, minus the scouts.