Guild Wars 2

Am I only 1 much more fun than last build stop crying I started playing hybrid mesmer dueling crono illusion with sinister scrapper runes and gs scepter shield

now try that in a raid
not all of us played as bunker
now you have even less options for builds not more

Oh, I still love my mesmer and I will continue playing it (when I am not in BnS), but that does not change the fact that for team PvE it only brings alacricity and for PvP it is almost as “good” as it was before HoT.
We got better Elite, mobility (without runes) and CS.

baylock.1703:

Am I only 1 much more fun than last build stop crying I started playing hybrid mesmer dueling crono illusion with sinister scrapper runes and gs scepter shield

PvP. Can we please think of the other 99,8% of the game, too?

Carighan.6758:

baylock.1703:

Am I only 1 much more fun than last build stop crying I started playing hybrid mesmer dueling crono illusion with sinister scrapper runes and gs scepter shield

PvP. Can we please think of the other 99,8% of the game, too?

In the other 98.5% it does not matter which class you play.

Magira.6390:

Carighan.6758:

baylock.1703:

Am I only 1 much more fun than last build stop crying I started playing hybrid mesmer dueling crono illusion with sinister scrapper runes and gs scepter shield

PvP. Can we please think of the other 99,8% of the game, too?

In the other 98.5% it does not matter which class you play.
Plus, it’s been proven, over and over again, that condi shatter just isn’t a competitive choice in high level PvP.
Want to troll hot join and unranked? Sure. Winning a Championship? No.

Yeah it does too…
Mesmer is only wanted in WvW for veil. Thief is hardly ever wanted for group play, etc.
in OPEN world PvE you are right it doesn’t matter. But some people actually play more that just one game mode. GASP!

YuukiAsuna.3417:

Magira.6390:

Carighan.6758:

baylock.1703:

Am I only 1 much more fun than last build stop crying I started playing hybrid mesmer dueling crono illusion with sinister scrapper runes and gs scepter shield

PvP. Can we please think of the other 99,8% of the game, too?

In the other 98.5% it does not matter which class you play.
Plus, it’s been proven, over and over again, that condi shatter just isn’t a competitive choice in high level PvP.
Want to troll hot join and unranked? Sure. Winning a Championship? No.

Yeah it does too…
Mesmer is only wanted in WvW for veil. Thief is hardly ever wanted for group play, etc.
in OPEN world PvE you are right it doesn’t matter. But some people actually play more that just one game mode. GASP!

In WvW you are there whether people want you there or not. in PvE you are all on the same team so who gives a c*** if its not perfectly balanced. The game should be balanced around PvP and tuned to other game modes.

Uncle Dalty is correct.

Uncle Dalty.8327:

so who gives a c*** if its not perfectly balanced

The people who drop me from raid because my mesmer can’t cut it on dps, so they’re taking another burnzerker instead.

Uncle Dalty.8327:

In WvW you are there whether people want you there or not. in PvE you are all on the same team so who gives a c*** if its not perfectly balanced. The game should be balanced around PvP and tuned to other game modes.

Why? It’s entirely trivial to change to a different class with 0 issues in PvP, so why does it matter whether one class is useless or not? Just use a different one, no loss if time-investment, no nothing.

Sounds to me that if anything, it ought to be WvW and PvE, the modes where you invest time and potentially even money into your current setup, where balance matters. Where it’s not without repercussions if that zerker gear you grinded for is all of a sudden rubbish and you need to level up, gear up and kit out a new class.

Hrm?

Uncle Dalty.8327:

YuukiAsuna.3417:

Magira.6390:

Carighan.6758:

baylock.1703:

Am I only 1 much more fun than last build stop crying I started playing hybrid mesmer dueling crono illusion with sinister scrapper runes and gs scepter shield

PvP. Can we please think of the other 99,8% of the game, too?

In the other 98.5% it does not matter which class you play.
Plus, it’s been proven, over and over again, that condi shatter just isn’t a competitive choice in high level PvP.
Want to troll hot join and unranked? Sure. Winning a Championship? No.

Yeah it does too…
Mesmer is only wanted in WvW for veil. Thief is hardly ever wanted for group play, etc.
in OPEN world PvE you are right it doesn’t matter. But some people actually play more that just one game mode. GASP!

In WvW you are there whether people want you there or not. in PvE you are all on the same team so who gives a c*** if its not perfectly balanced. The game should be balanced around PvP and tuned to other game modes.

Obviously you’ve never been in a WvW guild that does organized runs because again. They only want certain classes or gtfo.
And again. Raids, speed clearing dungeons, high level fractals, anything that isn’t OPEN WORLD PvE people do not want you there if you can not meet certain expectations.

If all you do is PvP that’s fine. But do not try and speak for people who do other game modes. Hell, don’t speak at all when it comes to balance in this game until it’s split not PvP and PvE separated modes because you have know idea what you are talking about.

It’s also very not fun to go from killing mobs in a reasonable time on my reaper/dd/druid/engi/zerker/dh to not being able to do so on my chronomancer.

Undertuned is underfun, and insistence that it doesn’t matter because it’s not competitive is just blind—or perhaps willful—ignorance.

I can’t tell if I’m trolling or not. I do know that reading the forums for the other professions would lead someone to believe all classes are undertuned.

If you play the game for PvP, you’re interested in beating other humans on a level playing field.

If you play the game for WvW, you’ve already had to accept that the field isn’t level due to server populations.

If you play the game for PvE, you’re someone who enjoys chasing the carrot.

Personally, I play PvE and WvW. I love “earning” rewards from the grind/fight/crafting in PvE.
And fighting for Kaineng, I love being the over-achieving underdogs that usually are completely outnumbered, but expect to win every fight we’re in!

Regards

Shtos Vant.4182:

If you play the game for PvP, you’re interested in beating other humans on a level playing field.

If you play the game for WvW, you’ve already had to accept that the field isn’t level due to server populations.

If you play the game for PvE, you’re someone who enjoys chasing the carrot.

Personally, I play PvE and WvW. I love “earning” rewards from the grind/fight/crafting in PvE.
And fighting for Kaineng, I love being the over-achieving underdogs that usually are completely outnumbered, but expects to win every fight we’re in!

Regards

Uhmm NOOO.

If you play WvW, you expect the kittening rating system to give you a relatively even match-up.
Unfortunately, considering you guys were up against Mag with us last week, it appears the rating system literally went full kitten. I’m not even sure how the system expected a server that only has a blob running at EU time, to compete with a server that has a 24/7 blob, and another server that has a really large NA Prime blob.

And what of GvGs? 10v10 and 15v15? Completely level playing fields except for class balance.

“If you play the game for PvE, you’re someone who enjoys chasing the carrot.”
Or someone who enjoys speed running.
Or someone who enjoys difficult content that doesn’t involve fighting other people.
Or… you got the point?

“If you play the game for PvP, you’re interested in beating other humans on a level playing field.”

Well too bad it’s not a level playing field.
Mesmer innately requires more skill to play than many other classes. And yet doesn’t get nearly the rewards that other classes get for their effort.

Eh… you people want a fair fight in PvP?

I feel like you’d be pretty much the only people who ever want that. Sure, plenty people say they want that. But that’s not true. What they want is a believable illusion of challenge + kick faces in.

That’s a big difference actually, and in single player games a large reason why difficulty is done differently nowadays. Illusion of challenge vs actual challenge. But in MP, it means that actually what you want is the prey to struggle but ultimately still be prey.

This means: The more unfair you can make it, the better.

This game isn’t good for pvp players. It lacks in depth for that to be highly competitive. Don’t act like it’s different. Guild Wars II is a rather casual focused PvE game. But somehow ANet want’s to go to ESports with it, wich will never ever happen. The only one who support this idea are the 2k stream viewers … :P

btt: I think the Mesmer is in a good state now. The precognition nerf was not required and to nerf Alacrity AND hopping altogether was a bit over the top.

It would be nice to see some buffs to old weak weapons, like GS aa, staff aa and CS or CA, or maybe some power / condi buff for the scepter. Also there are many traits wich are extremly unsatisfying and barely draw attention to expirienced players.

QoL and minor buffs are what we need. This also means fairness love for phantasms, % stats affecting the mesmer like from runes and sigil should go to phants aswell. Why should we only get 50% of Force and Accuracy or Scholar? Totally fair and square if you ask me, kappa.

Greez
- Madame Le Blanc

Carighan.6758:

Eh… you people want a fair fight in PvP?

I feel like you’d be pretty much the only people who ever want that. Sure, plenty people say they want that. But that’s not true. What they want is a believable illusion of challenge + kick faces in.

That’s a big difference actually, and in single player games a large reason why difficulty is done differently nowadays. Illusion of challenge vs actual challenge. But in MP, it means that actually what you want is the prey to struggle but ultimately still be prey.

This means: The more unfair you can make it, the better.

Which is why everyone flocks to LoL, DoTA, soon to be Overwatch, have I made my point yet?

Everyone flocked away from TF2 because it was a mass of imbalanced OP BS that took valve YEARS to even do anything with.

Starcraft 2 was a massive thing back before heart of the swarm, but balance in HOTS was shabby. The playerbase knew it.
A large part of the playerbase & fanbase left it.

WoW, now that its balance is actually a bit better, has had a growing fanbase. (Yes, I know WoW is already massive, I’m speaking from streamer numbers here.)

I’m sorry, but “The more unfair you can make it, the better.” is wrong.

Games that are more balanced than GW2, are doing better than GW2. Games that failed to balance themselves, have dying or dead communities.

baylock.1703:

Am I only 1 much more fun than last build stop crying I started playing hybrid mesmer dueling crono illusion with sinister scrapper runes and gs scepter shield

Yes, you are the only one.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Which is why everyone flocks to LoL, DoTA, soon to be Overwatch, have I made my point yet?

Eh, no. Not at all.

The whole fun in MOBAs (Heroes is my personal poison but really ,doesn’t matter) is that fights are very very rarely fair and balanced. I mean that very element is the fuel for their meta balance.

Basically any given selection of 2 heroes won’t be a fair fight against each other. On top of that, very few ingame situations lead to fair fights. And that’s the point. Strategy is built from trying to capitalize on unfair advantages (be they picks the other team couldn’t do much about, initiative, better positioning, etc), while trying to mitigate any advantage the enemy might have.

That was my point with the post you quoted, too. Fair fights are boring as kitten. Even in FPS you aren’t after fair fights, why would you approach the enemy from where they see or expect you if you can help it?

You’re joking right? That build is trash for 95% of the game. You cannot raid with that build.

Carighan.6758:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Which is why everyone flocks to LoL, DoTA, soon to be Overwatch, have I made my point yet?

Eh, no. Not at all.

The whole fun in MOBAs (Heroes is my personal poison but really ,doesn’t matter) is that fights are very very rarely fair and balanced. I mean that very element is the fuel for their meta balance.

Basically any given selection of 2 heroes won’t be a fair fight against each other. On top of that, very few ingame situations lead to fair fights. And that’s the point. Strategy is built from trying to capitalize on unfair advantages (be they picks the other team couldn’t do much about, initiative, better positioning, etc), while trying to mitigate any advantage the enemy might have.

That was my point with the post you quoted, too. Fair fights are boring as kitten. Even in FPS you aren’t after fair fights, why would you approach the enemy from where they see or expect you if you can help it?

Ofc you’re chasing after those “unfair advantages” (Totally fair advantages).

The balance is entirely around skill.
Skill in knowing what to pick and ban. Skill in knowing how, what, and when to build X item.
Skill in the actual gameplay mechanics & communication.

The trick with Mobas (Overwatch doesn’t fit this category) is to have scaling power, but not so much that a comeback is impossible.
Basically, a snowball effect.

The other trick, is to not have picks and bans automatically decide which side will win. Basically, giving the picks & bans certain advantages and disadvantages.

In both LoL & DoTA, there are early game, mid game, and late game compositions. As well as “balanced” compositions, that can do well throughout the game, but will be overtaken at some point.

That is the balance in the game.

Essentially, high risk, high reward vs Low risk, low reward. All being ultimately decided upon by skill (Most characters play differently, and the easiest ones aren’t usually very rewarding).

The same is true about FPS games. There are low risk strategies which are safer, but they don’t necessarily win more than the riskier ones.
Most FPS games usually swap sides in order to keep balance.
When you’re on defense (counter terrorists), it’s expected for you to play safer. The ball is in your court.

When you’re on offense (terrorists), it’s expected for you to play more aggressive, riskier. The ball is not in your court, it’s controlled by the other team.

All of this is of course, also balanced out by your picks (Buys in CS, class changes in Overwatch).

If a strategy doesn’t work, you change it up.

If these games were poorly balanced, they wouldn’t be played (And CS:GO has had some serious balance arguments with some of its weapons).

The point is, you always feel like you can win on these games, even when losing.

The same is not true for GW2. It’s actually pretty often that I feel like I can’t win, no matter how well I or my team plays.

Carighan.6758:

But in MP, it means that actually what you want is the prey to struggle but ultimately still be prey.

This means: The more unfair you can make it, the better.

I do not deny that i enjoy being on the overpowered roflstomping side, but suffering and struggling as a prey and giving hunters an exactly zero kills of me escaping out of anything alive also holds a great appeal. Defiance is its own reward. I have been called masochist multiple times for a reason.

Rainbowsand.2438:

I do not deny that i enjoy being on the overpowered roflstomping side, but suffering and struggling as a prey and giving hunters an exactly zero kills of me escaping out of anything alive also holds a great appeal. Defiance is its own reward. I have been called masochist multiple times for a reason.

Oh definitely, quite the underdog player myself. Though the only time I did that in a PvP setting was in DAoC, playing a Mind Mastery Mentalist. I hear they’ve actually rebalanced that line now, years after everyone stopped playing the game.

Was fun though, after a while you were known for being a solid enough healer despite playing the by-far weakest spec in the game.

The obscure thing about playing Mind Mastery Mentalists and the likes is that you actually have to have a mind as opposed to Rawr I Have A Big Flaming GS.

Carighan.6758:

Rainbowsand.2438:

I do not deny that i enjoy being on the overpowered roflstomping side, but suffering and struggling as a prey and giving hunters an exactly zero kills of me escaping out of anything alive also holds a great appeal. Defiance is its own reward. I have been called masochist multiple times for a reason.

Oh definitely, quite the underdog player myself. Though the only time I did that in a PvP setting was in DAoC, playing a Mind Mastery Mentalist. I hear they’ve actually rebalanced that line now, years after everyone stopped playing the game.

Was fun though, after a while you were known for being a solid enough healer despite playing the by-far weakest spec in the game.

They got Ablative Armor and a group heal. Not sure if that qualifies as viable.

But what am I talking. I mained a Light Enchanter with the remaining points in Enchantment (although I releveled a Light Eldritch for WvW). I might even have been more useless than you . Darn, I miss that game. Totally imbalanced for casters in larger fights but I really liked the lore and class diversity even though skills were actually quite limited.