Guild Wars 2

I have a hard time imagining that I’ll use the new elite mesmer spec.

It really doesn’t matter what they put in the new spec, it’s about what will be lost by giving up the chrono elite. In particular,
- amazing synergy with shattering via chronophantasma and illusionary reversion traits
- excellent burst ability with f5 continuum shift (I can imagine that the new elite will have a burst capability – continuum shift is just really cool)
- amazing offhand weapon with shield (both the block and the stun wall)
- passive 25% runspeed (as a roamer in wvw, this makes a big difference)
- faster clones on shatter (time catches up)

It’s possible that all of these things will be replaced with equally good solutions in the new elite, but chronomancer elite is just amazing.

I could imagine Mirage being great at summoning phantasms. Then with that, it can easily replace chronophantasm and illusionary reversion.

For example, they can give us a trait like ‘whenever you summon phantasm, you get two of them’.

What I am hoping for is also some active control of clone/phantasm survivabiliy. I was suggesting traits like ‘whenever you dodge, your illusions gain 1s of evasion as well’.

shrug. I’m sure they’ll implement things that make mirage interesting and/or desirable. Obviously it won’t be the same as chrono, but that doesn’t mean there is no way to make a desirable non-chrono spec.

That being said, I won’t be buying the expansion until all aspects of the content it has have been confirmed, and even then I might wait until a sale. Anet lost the benefit of the doubt with HoT. I won’t be suckered into buying another half of an expansion packaged with a long list of broken promises again.

i think every new elite will be interesting as they must sell it
so for 2 months at least we gonna see power creep mesmer LOL

with mirage you can have more evade , blind, illusion swap, more control with kd,kb

i wish we could summon phantasm out of combat (like minions)

the only thing we have to worry about is 25% speed…

+ 25% run speed is pretty sought after for obvious reasons, but even if Mirage doesn’t have it it might have ways to gain high swiftness uptime or the like.
Failing that they might put out more runes that have +25% move speed, though I don’t find that as desirable of an option

I’m more of a pessimist. I’m just assuming they’ll nerf the hell out of Chronomancy, to make the new ES more desirable. :P

Nah probably not. Chronomancer has already beene nerfed a lot of times. Atm it’s pretty balanced as in top support, worst dps in the game.

The only thing I’ll really miss is +25% runspeed and -25% on cripple/chill/immobilise.

That single trait is kind of crucial for my whole build (runes and food) so depending on what Mirage offers in terms of mobility and condition management I’ll have to change around a number of things.

In any case thematically it is far more interesting to me than chronomancer – hopefully it finally brings back some proper mind tricks and creativity into mesmer play rather than one trick power shatter or shatter spam condi builds.

buying expansion, lol. they make free for those who bought hot, or they can go to hell.

Malice.8439:

I’m more of a pessimist. I’m just assuming they’ll nerf the hell out of Chronomancy, to make the new ES more desirable. :P

This is so true.

I expect all old elites to get gutted pretty bad to make way for the new ones. I’m hoping the new elite brings power shatter back into the meta.

But I feel its,going to be a afk AI meta for us

Azukas.1426:

Malice.8439:

I’m more of a pessimist. I’m just assuming they’ll nerf the hell out of Chronomancy, to make the new ES more desirable. :P

This is so true.

I expect all old elites to get gutted pretty bad to make way for the new ones. I’m hoping the new elite brings power shatter back into the meta.

But I feel its,going to be a afk AI meta for us

^
This

However no to the shatter part if Necro can get a different shroud and guardians different virtues then we can get different F skills.

I am guessing it’ll provide a pretty drastic play-style change for Mesmers in order to avoid the issues with missing out on all that great Chrono stuff.

IMO will either provide a very offensive non-shatter based playstyle, that is only slightly augmented by shatters, or perhaps a very trickster oriented control-focused playstyle like the GW1 Mesmer, or maybe as someone said above a very Phantasm oriented playstyle.

I think the latter would be problematic as it would be perceived as being passive and “PvE in PvP” that most people loathe, so unless they come up with some really nifty stuff on that front my bet is on a strong Power-based offensive playstyle, or a very strong/annoying trickster/debuffer/interrupter.

Doam.8305:

Azukas.1426:

Malice.8439:

I’m more of a pessimist. I’m just assuming they’ll nerf the hell out of Chronomancy, to make the new ES more desirable. :P

This is so true.

I expect all old elites to get gutted pretty bad to make way for the new ones. I’m hoping the new elite brings power shatter back into the meta.

But I feel its,going to be a afk AI meta for us

^
This

However no to the shatter part if Necro can get a different shroud and guardians different virtues then we can get different F skills.

Keep in mind both druid and condi ranger fit into the meta. Even right now, some team comps bring condi base mesmer and chrono too. They don’t need to nerf chronos to add an interesting new elite spec for mesmer that can fill a dps slot better/ differently than base condi mesmer.

Windwalker.7421:

I am guessing it’ll provide a pretty drastic play-style change for Mesmers in order to avoid the issues with missing out on all that great Chrono stuff.

IMO will either provide a very offensive non-shatter based playstyle, that is only slightly augmented by shatters, or perhaps a very trickster oriented control-focused playstyle like the GW1 Mesmer, or maybe as someone said above a very Phantasm oriented playstyle.

I think the latter would be problematic as it would be perceived as being passive and “PvE in PvP” that most people loathe, so unless they come up with some really nifty stuff on that front my bet is on a strong Power-based offensive playstyle, or a very strong/annoying trickster/debuffer/interrupter.

I’m inclined to guess trickster, as we already get plenty of burst out of Chronomancer, but it’s a bit short on the debuff and sustain areas.

I’d be quite keen on seeing some phantasms that actually act like hexes, corrupting enchantments or reversing their effects.
I’m thinking of Ineptitude in GW1… a phantasm that corrupts stability, turning a knockdown into an AoE knockdown and then shattering after one trigger.

Something else that just came to mind today would be Illusion of Weakness – downing yourself to 75% downed state, giving you the ability to absorb an incoming burst and cast Illusionary Rogue, for up to 10 seconds or until cancelled.

Another thing that might fit with the theme is using the F5 to swap between phantasms, taking on their appearance and some aspect of their abilities. Could be a GW2 incarnation of Illusionary Weaponry.

Personally I hope the new spec will be able to inflict a new condition or efffect that will mesmers to counter boons in another way. We can remove boons with shatters now, how about we just make boons ineffective on a target for x amount of seconds ? The UI could display that effect with boons being greyed out.

flog.3485:

Personally I hope the new spec will be able to inflict a new condition or efffect that will mesmers to counter boons in another way. We can remove boons with shatters now, how about we just make boons ineffective on a target for x amount of seconds ? The UI could display that effect with boons being greyed out.

Seems crazy op like giving to burning guardian a condition that lock condi clear..

Vitali.5039:

flog.3485:

Personally I hope the new spec will be able to inflict a new condition or efffect that will mesmers to counter boons in another way. We can remove boons with shatters now, how about we just make boons ineffective on a target for x amount of seconds ? The UI could display that effect with boons being greyed out.

Seems crazy op like giving to burning guardian a condition that lock condi clear..

It is not OP it it lasts only for a few seconds and if you can’t spam it and proc it passively. I mainly thought it would be good for the game to add a new effect into the game that deals with the huge amount of of boons that all classes can benefit of. It could be available only as a grandmaster trait or an elite skill. Maybe boon generation by foes in PvE could be a new mechanic that the new elite specs would deal with just as HoT made breakbar and how to break it relevant in the game.

flog.3485:

Vitali.5039:

flog.3485:

Personally I hope the new spec will be able to inflict a new condition or efffect that will mesmers to counter boons in another way. We can remove boons with shatters now, how about we just make boons ineffective on a target for x amount of seconds ? The UI could display that effect with boons being greyed out.

Seems crazy op like giving to burning guardian a condition that lock condi clear..

It is not OP it it lasts only for a few seconds and if you can’t spam it and proc it passively. I mainly thought it would be good for the game to add a new effect into the game that deals with the huge amount of of boons that all classes can benefit of. It could be available only as a grandmaster trait or an elite skill. Maybe boon generation by foes in PvE could be a new mechanic that the new elite specs would deal with just as HoT made breakbar and how to break it relevant in the game.

About PvP and WvW: negate the damage reduction of protection (or resistance) and one shot elementalist by shatter (or let peoples die to condi) could be funny only for the mesmer, many classes rely on boons to survive. You want to ignore stability and protection with mantra shatter? Maybe the boons negation can last few seconds but the target will die istantly.

About PvE: boons generation could maybe help necro, but looking at the current necro’s meta build with their scepter AA chain, Nightfall and our sword’s AA chain the PvE boons are near istantly removed, so no gain locking it.

Well if …. certain information ….. are true then I think the whole run XX% faster skills and traits will be removed anyways ….. because there will be a new new system which is much cooler and make them obsolete ;9

Vitali.5039:

flog.3485:

Vitali.5039:

flog.3485:

Personally I hope the new spec will be able to inflict a new condition or efffect that will mesmers to counter boons in another way. We can remove boons with shatters now, how about we just make boons ineffective on a target for x amount of seconds ? The UI could display that effect with boons being greyed out.

Seems crazy op like giving to burning guardian a condition that lock condi clear..

It is not OP it it lasts only for a few seconds and if you can’t spam it and proc it passively. I mainly thought it would be good for the game to add a new effect into the game that deals with the huge amount of of boons that all classes can benefit of. It could be available only as a grandmaster trait or an elite skill. Maybe boon generation by foes in PvE could be a new mechanic that the new elite specs would deal with just as HoT made breakbar and how to break it relevant in the game.

About PvP and WvW: negate the damage reduction of protection (or resistance) and one shot elementalist by shatter (or let peoples die to condi) could be funny only for the mesmer, many classes rely on boons to survive. You want to ignore stability and protection with mantra shatter? Maybe the boons negation can last few seconds but the target will die istantly.

About PvE: boons generation could maybe help necro, but looking at the current necro’s meta build with their scepter AA chain, Nightfall and our sword’s AA chain the PvE boons are near istantly removed, so no gain locking it.

I guess you are right about that. I did not take into account the fact some classes heavily relied on boons to survive.

As I think about it more, if there’s something that allows better open field movement speed that applies in WvW (whether it’s part of Mirage or just part of the base mechanics of the new game), then I can imagine dropping Chronomancer. The “shatter” mechanics and weapon skills of Mirage could be viable replacements for what I get from the Chrono elite.

Since I phrased the opening statement as being about buying the expansion, I saw some people reacted to that. I just want to say that I feel like GW2 is a tremendous value for me, and I’ll gladly pay for the expansion purely to support all the work and cost that goes into a game like this. I paid $20 for a movie ticket last weekend. I’ve played thousands of hours of GW2 for the cost of the initial game, the HoT expansion, and a couple gem store purchases. I totally understand that not everyone has $50 to pay for an expansion. I’ve had times where I didn’t have a spare $50. But if you’re in that situation, you should really be encouraging people to buy the expansion because a company cannot keep making content without getting some kind of income.

Anyway, my main point was that I was shortsighted in not seeing the potential for Mirage to replace Chronomancer.

To be fair, I have a difficult time imagining what could be more effective than the current Chronotank as far as support goes.

I don’t know about you, but I don’t mind playing Mirage in some content, Chrono in other content, and perhaps just plain old Mesmer in wholly different content.

The theme of the game is horizontal progression rather than vertical ones. The Chronomancer and the other Elite Specs may seem superior to the core professions, but the design of GW2 would insinuate that elite specs not necessarily be superior over one another, but simply allow the player to do more things.

For me, the first question is what’s viable roaming in WvW where I’ll often be fighting 1v2 or 1v3. So condi chrono has been great because it’s both survivable and capable of dealing enough damage to take out other players.

If Mirage biases toward power damage, the biggest question for me will be whether I can find a gear set that is survivable enough given my skills. With condition damage, there’s Dire and Trailblazer stats that give a lot of toughness and vitality in conjunction with condition damage and expertise. So most likely, if I switch to Mirage, I won’t switch back because that’s a lot of gear to make/modify the stats on.

Personally I hate chronomancer, the thematic, the playstule, the weapon, the utilities, the only thing I like about it is that it’s played as a support, I can’t wait for them to implement pretty much anything else.

eldenbri.1059:

as a roamer in wvw

It’s the current year, man… why are you doing this to yourself?

Durzlla.6295:

Personally I hate chronomancer, the thematic, the playstule, the weapon, the utilities, the only thing I like about it is that it’s played as a support, I can’t wait for them to implement pretty much anything else.

I do too. I loved heart of thorns (worth the 50 bucks imo). But i hated chronomancer. i was a mesmer main since 2009 until chronomancer pushed me into elementalist. with tempest and draghunter running around, mesmer offense felt even more pathetic. i got tired of taking twice as long to kill open world mobs on my mesmer than on my other professions, who clock in at twice her damage, even on regular enemies. i hope mirage remedies this. even if just for open world and exploring

I “might” buy the expansion. We’ll see how many nerfs, reworks and skill giveaways the new Mesmer elite is hit with first.

So, guess I’ll wait at least a month or two.

Oh I’ll be buying it for sure.

I can’t express enough how excited I am for Mirage. Of all the choices of elite spec when we had the threads with people creating and discussing their ideas, I was always hoping for a “Mirage” themed spec based around mind games and deception.

Even better if it is a sustained damage spec with shatters replaced so no huge one-trick burst of power or shatter spam of condi, both of which are one dimensional and kind of boring now.

And Axe is the icing on the cake because Astralaria is hands down the sexiest legendary in the game.

So yeah I’m properly stoked, can’t wait to use the new spec. Probably will switch exclusively to it if it it doesn’t have any particular mechanic that annoys me, because Chrono is a band aid for illusion generation, movement speed and cooldown reduction, as I don’t use wells, don’t use Shield and don’t really like F5.

Hopefully Mirage should be a fresh spec that reimagines mesmer in a way that I’ve been hoping to play for years rather than simply fixing it like Chrono does.

Edit – I’m really keen to see how Axe/Focus plays out, especially if traiting focus for reflects. Could end up being a really fun set.

Some speculations and brainstorming:

If all illusions are phantasms and we only get mainhand axe (ie, no offhand axe), does that mean Axe will have a skill(s) creating phantasms on the mainhand? Would certainly make sense.

Will all phantasms in that case be made to look like the player (so no pink ghostly effect) if the intention is to make them more difficult to distinguish?

If new F skills are to work with old shatter traits in pretty much every single trait line, could they become directed phantasm attacks instead but keep similar properties to what they are now, like ranger pet F2 for each function skill? That way all the other shatter traits will work as they could become enhancements of directed phantasm attacks?
ie F1 orders all phantasms to burst direct damage on a target, F2 condis, F3 to daze… F4 doesn’t quite fit so could be something completely different.

I take it gameplay will be around maintaining three phantasms at all times and manipulating them strategically – so not like the old autopilot phantasm builds but instead requiring us to actively manage them to succeed? If so, how could this be made functional in say large scale wvw?

So in this case could Chrono remain the go-to Shatter elite spec and Mirage become the go-to Phantasm elite spec,

Will we get a choice of dodge modifications similar to Daredevil, or will all our phantasms perform the same dodge effect (perhaps blur without movement) when we dodge?

Crucially will the hp bar showing things like buffs and food be copied onto all phantasms to keep up the ruse, otherwise the whole deception would be useless.

Ah kitten, got to wait for the answers! Hopefully we’ll get more info in August once Episode 6 has finished.

@xenon I think roaming might be really different on different servers. On NSP, I have a ton of fun. Today I saw an enemy working on hills (owned by our mutual enemy) with a cata. I let him take out outer, put a quick call in map chat, let him take out inner, took him down and slipped into the keep to take hills with the help of one other roamer who saw my map chat.

And later, I had just taken parched outpost when four opponents slipped in. They decided to rush me while the lord still had RI, so I managed to down all of them (with the help of the tower lord)

I get tons of interesting fights that are 1v1 but in a contested camp or tower, 1v2 and 1v3. I suspect it’s different for different people, but I find myself playing at least an hour every day.

Curunen.8729:

Some speculations and brainstorming:

If all illusions are phantasms and we only get mainhand axe (ie, no offhand axe), does that mean Axe will have a skill(s) creating phantasms on the mainhand? Would certainly make sense.

Will all phantasms in that case be made to look like the player (so no pink ghostly effect) if the intention is to make them more difficult to distinguish?

If new F skills are to work with old shatter traits in pretty much every single trait line, could they become directed phantasm attacks instead but keep similar properties to what they are now, like ranger pet F2 for each function skill? That way all the other shatter traits will work as they could become enhancements of directed phantasm attacks?
ie F1 orders all phantasms to burst direct damage on a target, F2 condis, F3 to daze… F4 doesn’t quite fit so could be something completely different.

I take it gameplay will be around maintaining three phantasms at all times and manipulating them strategically – so not like the old autopilot phantasm builds but instead requiring us to actively manage them to succeed? If so, how could this be made functional in say large scale wvw?

So in this case could Chrono remain the go-to Shatter elite spec and Mirage become the go-to Phantasm elite spec,

Will we get a choice of dodge modifications similar to Daredevil, or will all our phantasms perform the same dodge effect (perhaps blur without movement) when we dodge?

Crucially will the hp bar showing things like buffs and food be copied onto all phantasms to keep up the ruse, otherwise the whole deception would be useless.

Ah kitten, got to wait for the answers! Hopefully we’ll get more info in August once Episode 6 has finished.

Hmmm I don’t think we are gonna get a phantasm for axe. I am pretty sure they are gonna stick to the original concept: one clone and one phantasm per weapons wielded at the same time. However let’s go wild, maybe the next elite specs could transform a clone into a phantasm (or at least give the illusion of it) and by doing so we could gain various offensive advantages for our personal dps on top of the damages from the phantasm. If we have many phantasms as illusions, we could be maybe combine these illusions into a more powerful one that would copy our boons and/or our movements like you suggested ?

First of all, know that Anet are the ones who made such a good spec. Now look at the fact that they’re doing it again. There is no real reason so far relating to having more than 1 elite spec, that suggests that they will make it better or worse.

I don’t understand the point of the hype. It reminds me of the Chrono hype before HoT came out.

Whatever they release will be promptly nerfed back to the stone ages because god forbid Mesmer actually be useful.

msalakka.4653:

I don’t understand the point of the hype. It reminds me of the Chrono hype before HoT came out.

Whatever they release will be promptly nerfed back to the stone ages because god forbid Mesmer actually be useful.

Mesmer has been a staple in the meta in every game mode since HoT released.

Mesmer has been a requirement not useful.

lol

Azukas.1426:

msalakka.4653:

I don’t understand the point of the hype. It reminds me of the Chrono hype before HoT came out.

Whatever they release will be promptly nerfed back to the stone ages because god forbid Mesmer actually be useful.

Mesmer has been a staple in the meta in every game mode since HoT released.

Mesmer has been a requirement not useful.

lol

I guess we have a different idea of usefulness.

If you are satisfied spamming quickness in PvE fighting cron scripts, that’s on you.

msalakka.4653:

Azukas.1426:

msalakka.4653:

I don’t understand the point of the hype. It reminds me of the Chrono hype before HoT came out.

Whatever they release will be promptly nerfed back to the stone ages because god forbid Mesmer actually be useful.

Mesmer has been a staple in the meta in every game mode since HoT released.

Mesmer has been a requirement not useful.

lol

I guess we have a different idea of usefulness.

If you are satisfied spamming quickness in PvE fighting cron scripts, that’s on you.

It’s PvE so what. We’re more important than the DPS guys.

Maybe you should realize that mesmer can’t be both support and best DPS

Azukas.1426:

msalakka.4653:

Azukas.1426:

msalakka.4653:

I don’t understand the point of the hype. It reminds me of the Chrono hype before HoT came out.

Whatever they release will be promptly nerfed back to the stone ages because god forbid Mesmer actually be useful.

Mesmer has been a staple in the meta in every game mode since HoT released.

Mesmer has been a requirement not useful.

lol

I guess we have a different idea of usefulness.

If you are satisfied spamming quickness in PvE fighting cron scripts, that’s on you.

It’s PvE so what. We’re more important than the DPS guys.

Maybe you should realize that mesmer can’t be both support and best DPS

More important than the guys that will ensure the boss is dead before it enrages and one shots everyone? Think you have a warped list of importance.

Since no-one specifically mentioned raids, chrono makes very little difference in fractals depending on the instabilities and in actual fact can be more of a hinderence overwriting regen from druids. It also isn’t required for anything but skips and a few places where moa allows for speedy kill (100 CM final 33%) but it’s not more important than the people dealing damage as without them the chrono is effectively useless.

Also in terms of buff bots druid is by far the biggest DPS increase in any PvE content, you have spotter, GoTL, frost/sun spirit, helps maintain scholar uptime, GoE and pretty good breakbars damage.

If I had to list roles in importance it would be:
1 druid buffbot
DPSx2
Chrono
DPSx1 (x2 if no decent chronos)

Raiding being end game (elitist and toxic if you believe the forums) content you should run optimised and no-one will deny chrono is mandatory just as only a fool would say DPS is in any way less important. They all have an important part to play and a bad player will be a big hinderence whatever they play.

apharma.3741:

Azukas.1426:

msalakka.4653:

Azukas.1426:

msalakka.4653:

I don’t understand the point of the hype. It reminds me of the Chrono hype before HoT came out.

Whatever they release will be promptly nerfed back to the stone ages because god forbid Mesmer actually be useful.

Mesmer has been a staple in the meta in every game mode since HoT released.

Mesmer has been a requirement not useful.

lol

I guess we have a different idea of usefulness.

If you are satisfied spamming quickness in PvE fighting cron scripts, that’s on you.

It’s PvE so what. We’re more important than the DPS guys.

Maybe you should realize that mesmer can’t be both support and best DPS

More important than the guys that will ensure the boss is dead before it enrages and one shots everyone? Think you have a warped list of importance.

Since no-one specifically mentioned raids, chrono makes very little difference in fractals depending on the instabilities and in actual fact can be more of a hinderence overwriting regen from druids. It also isn’t required for anything but skips and a few places where moa allows for speedy kill (100 CM final 33%) but it’s not more important than the people dealing damage as without them the chrono is effectively useless.

Also in terms of buff bots druid is by far the biggest DPS increase in any PvE content, you have spotter, GoTL, frost/sun spirit, helps maintain scholar uptime, GoE and pretty good breakbars damage.

If I had to list roles in importance it would be:
1 druid buffbot
DPSx2
Chrono
DPSx1 (x2 if no decent chronos)

Raiding being end game (elitist and toxic if you believe the forums) content you should run optimised and no-one will deny chrono is mandatory just as only a fool would say DPS is in any way less important. They all have an important part to play and a bad player will be a big hinderence whatever they play.

I bolded the important parts of your post.

Thank you for agreeing with me and have a nice night.

Azukas.1426:

apharma.3741:

Azukas.1426:

msalakka.4653:

Azukas.1426:

msalakka.4653:

I don’t understand the point of the hype. It reminds me of the Chrono hype before HoT came out.

Whatever they release will be promptly nerfed back to the stone ages because god forbid Mesmer actually be useful.

Mesmer has been a staple in the meta in every game mode since HoT released.

Mesmer has been a requirement not useful.

lol

I guess we have a different idea of usefulness.

If you are satisfied spamming quickness in PvE fighting cron scripts, that’s on you.

It’s PvE so what. We’re more important than the DPS guys.

Maybe you should realize that mesmer can’t be both support and best DPS

More important than the guys that will ensure the boss is dead before it enrages and one shots everyone? Think you have a warped list of importance.

Since no-one specifically mentioned raids, chrono makes very little difference in fractals depending on the instabilities and in actual fact can be more of a hinderence overwriting regen from druids. It also isn’t required for anything but skips and a few places where moa allows for speedy kill (100 CM final 33%) but it’s not more important than the people dealing damage as without them the chrono is effectively useless.

Also in terms of buff bots druid is by far the biggest DPS increase in any PvE content, you have spotter, GoTL, frost/sun spirit, helps maintain scholar uptime, GoE and pretty good breakbars damage.

If I had to list roles in importance it would be:
1 druid buffbot
DPSx2
Chrono
DPSx1 (x2 if no decent chronos)

Raiding being end game (elitist and toxic if you believe the forums) content you should run optimised and no-one will deny chrono is mandatory just as only a fool would say DPS is in any way less important. They all have an important part to play and a bad player will be a big hinderence whatever they play.

I bolded the important parts of your post.

Thank you for agreeing with me and have a nice night.

Really I wouldn’t bother, “Certain people” always have a Woe is (me)smer mentality and nothing will change, no matter the facts. Even though for the past almost 2ish years Mesmer has been completely mandatory in everybfrom of organized/challenging content in game across all gamemodes. There is no reasoning with “certain people” and they will never see the truth that their class has been needed and mandatory in every form of organized content for almost 2 years now.