Guild Wars 2

A lot of people are disliking scepters right now, although there’s a fair amount of misinformation going about them as well as some somewhat over exagerrated claims.

Coincidentally I just finished my Scepter 101 guide introducing the weapon over on my site.

Ultimately I agree that it’s an underperforming weapon but I disagree that it’s an underperforming weapon for all the reasons people are throwing around. It’s underperforming because firstly it’s trait support just doesn’t -work-.

Malicious Sorcery only affects the third ability. As such both 1 and 2 are underperforming to Working as Intended. Similarly Illusionists Celerity doesn’t affect 1 properly at all.

Next up is the fact that people aren’t using Scepter in a shatter build that often. Shatter builds are it’s primary focus. The confusion build is definitely viable but it’s actually an off-shoot of the main focus which is a pure power based Shatter.

No other weapon can, just off abilities, generate 3 clones(and some change) for every Mind Wrack. Set up right you can roll 3 clones off every Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration. Nothin else comes close to the level of shatter that provides.

This brings us to the next point : Shatter just isn’t working very well right now. Our clones are so squishy and they spawn in melee that it’s only really viable against the simpler early game monsters and nigh on useless in any PvP scenario. The obvious conclusion? The scepter just isn’t designed with PvP in mind much. Can it be used? sure, but it’s not going to compare to the weapons that most definitely were built with structured pvp in mind.

When built appropriately, the scepter can actually out damage any other weapon, including the sword in short to mid-length fights. The progression is basically

Short = Sword
Middle = Scepter/GS
Long = Staff

Although of course, it is considerably more complicated than this.

So i’ll say this. Dislike the scepter? Good, it needs work.
Think it’s a horrible weapon because you can’t stack confusion until the cows come to someone elses home because they’re that confused? Bad, that’s not it’s intent. It’s a combination weapon that’s meant to simultaniously promote shatter and confusion builds. It’s not meant to be just one or the other. If the traits that support it actually worked it could be absolutely brutal. They just don’t right now.

Since shatter is so underwhelming atm I can’t stand scepter. I hate that if I want to use my pistol offhand and still be ranged i’m forced to use it or have to swap weapons and deal with that cooldown. I prefer to get 3 phantasms up for boss/long fights and keep them up, but with scepter if im not careful it will replace a phantasm with a clone. If shatter was worth anything more than a final blow I wouldn’t mind as much. I’m still holding onto hope we might get pistol mainhand so I can have a ranged weapon that won’t auto replace my phantasms.

I think the progression is more akin to:

Short = Sword
Middle = Scepter/Staff
Long = GS

The scepter isn’t awful, and I think it really only needs a couple of tweaks to be useful. As it is right now, I agree the Scepter #1 attack is dreadfully slow, packs very little punch, and the clone has no meaningful attack.

The shatter mechanic is not as bad as people make it out to be. Fundamentally I think the mechanic is weak in its base form and only really useful when traited heavily.

Clones, as the OP points out, are simply too weak in their current form, considering they do no damage and really cannot take any either. I do not think it unreasonable to make a large adjustment to the health pool of clones (not phantasms, mind you) to allow them to sustain a few hits before falling to pieces.

Having clones that die in 1 hit marginalizes the entire shatter mechanic. It’s equivalent to giving the Engineer’s tool belt a large chance to malfunction on equip: it’s not fun.

The other problem I see with the scepter currently is that it falls short of of its big brother, the staff, in terms of damage output and survivability. For a mid-range weapon, I can’t think of a scenario where I’d choose scepter + OH over the staff the way that the scepter is currently configured…. well, at least not in any way that would encourage me to make heavy use of the shatter mechanic. I could see the scepter + pistol working, but only insofar as I’d use Scepter #1 to spawn clone meatshields to protect my iDuelist, and that’s not really much fun either. Maybe this is where the torch is supposed to shine…. ?

The issue is that people don’t know how to use the scepter, it’s pretty embarrassing.

The only lackluster weapon right now is the Torch. The other 6 are all good. I have to carry all 6 because not having one kittens you.

One very interesting thing about the Mesmer is that a majority of builds aren’t dependent on weapons compared to most other professions.

20% cooldowns are nice, but beyond that the only noteworthy trait is pistol range and it’s associated confusion glitch. Every other weapon trait is really average compared to other available traits.

Oh, and yes, I am talking specifically about PvE.

Rhyno.7084:

The issue is that people don’t know how to use the scepter, it’s pretty embarrassing.

Enlighten us – on what occasion do you need to use the scepter over every other weapon, in PVE?

Thedenofsin.7340:

Rhyno.7084:

The issue is that people don’t know how to use the scepter, it’s pretty embarrassing.

Enlighten us – on what occasion do you need to use the scepter over every other weapon, in PVE?

I used to run with the scepter a lot. When traited for the dissipation skills, it applies AoE conditions very nicely. With the scepter, it is very easy to pump out 3 illusions, when you pump the 4th out, the dissipation traits are applied to all foes near the dissipating clone.

Basically, every third attack of your scepter would ideally add AoE conditions. If your clones go down too fast, the scepter still has a good defensive ability, that when timed correctly, gets you a clone back.

I think there is a lot of potential with the scepter, but it is a weapon that can only work with very specific play styles. (the most common play styles I have seen players using do not synergize with the scepter’s capabilities)

Koega.8653:

I think there is a lot of potential with the scepter, but it is a weapon that can only work with very specific play styles. (the most common play styles I have seen players using do not synergize with the scepter’s capabilities)

This is the main problem since it’s the only 1h ranged weapon.

It’s sad that the only good parts on your guide about the scepter are sugar coated.

Here are the damage numbers with 0 power and 0 condition damage for Attack 1 for each of our weapons. I did not take in other attacks like scepters death beam or swords flurry because those are different skills and different effects.

GS at 900 range (because scepters range is 900): 100 for the first hit, 200 for the second and 300 for the third totaling 600 damage for one auto attack (GS hits 3 times as fast as scepter hits one time).

Staff: 111 for the initial hit. 298 damage over 7 seconds for the bleed and 328 for 1 second for the burning. Making it total 439 if you get burning and 409 over 7 seconds if you get the bleed (stacks in intensity). This attacks faster then the scepter though and bounces.

Sword: 202 for the first 2 hits, 336 for the last hit and removes a boon. Attacks considerably fast requires melee though.

Scepter: 168 for the first 2 hits, 252 for the last hit summons a clone in melee that does 0 damage. Does the clone make up the damage? No not really, it might buy you an extra hit in PvE but that’s not the point, were talking about its damage. You can shatter it but it has no other clone generation, tbh its one of our slowest clone generating skills and if the clone dies (since its being spawned in melee) yea it took a hit for you but we lost the damage, it doesn’t make up the damage.

Yea sorry scepter is bad. The clone doesn’t make up for its damage and if you do something else in the middle of the chain you lost the clone. There really is no reason to use scepter as anything other then a support weapon.

GS at 900 range (because scepters range is 900): 100 for the first hit, 200 for the second and 300 for the third totaling 600 damage for one auto attack (GS hits 3 times as fast as scepter hits one time).

You mean 100 for the first hit, 100 for the second (accumulating to 200 and displaying 200), and 100 for the third (accumulating to 300 and displaying 300), for a total of 300 for one autoattack.

Enlighten us – on what occasion do you need to use the scepter over every other weapon, in PVE?

Seriously? Clone generation and range obviously.

Are you one of the people like “zexion” who say stuff along the lines of “Auto attack is low damage, weapon must be garbage.” If so I don’t want to bother. I still can’t believe there are people who are blind to everything except immediate damage.

The hilarious part is when people (zexion) talk about auto attack damage but they don’t even understand how it displays.

A condition damage + precision build with Scepter+Torch / Staff can be very powerful.

It is a frenetic playstyle, with a lot of weapon swapping and cooldowns to watch.

The scepter is supposedly a more defensive weapon. I find that I tend to use it in dungeons, because the block/blind can be extremely useful. In particular, it was amazing for Lieutenant Kohler and his pull attack. Easier to time than a dodge, and it ensured that I had a clone up after the rest got pulled in. Also, paired with Timewarp, you can churn out clones like crazy for 10 seconds.

zexion.5842:

It’s sad that the only good parts on your guide about the scepter are sugar coated.

Here are the damage numbers with 0 power and 0 condition damage for Attack 1 for each of our weapons. I did not take in other attacks like scepters death beam or swords flurry because those are different skills and different effects.

GS at 900 range (because scepters range is 900): 100 for the first hit, 200 for the second and 300 for the third totaling 600 damage for one auto attack (GS hits 3 times as fast as scepter hits one time).

Staff: 111 for the initial hit. 298 damage over 7 seconds for the bleed and 328 for 1 second for the burning. Making it total 439 if you get burning and 409 over 7 seconds if you get the bleed (stacks in intensity). This attacks faster then the scepter though and bounces.

Sword: 202 for the first 2 hits, 336 for the last hit and removes a boon. Attacks considerably fast requires melee though.

Scepter: 168 for the first 2 hits, 252 for the last hit summons a clone in melee that does 0 damage. Does the clone make up the damage? No not really, it might buy you an extra hit in PvE but that’s not the point, were talking about its damage. You can shatter it but it has no other clone generation, tbh its one of our slowest clone generating skills and if the clone dies (since its being spawned in melee) yea it took a hit for you but we lost the damage, it doesn’t make up the damage.

Yea sorry scepter is bad. The clone doesn’t make up for its damage and if you do something else in the middle of the chain you lost the clone. There really is no reason to use scepter as anything other then a support weapon.

That awkward moment when you somehow think that other weapons generate a clone faster than once every 4 seconds.

Also, you don’t AUTOMATICALLY lose the clone. You have a 2 second window to start casting the third hit, which is actually a prettykittenlong time.

Also, that is not how you do math. As it is pointed out the greatsword hits linearly, not compoundedly. It doesn’t suddenly do 100, then 200 and then 300. It does 100, then 100, oh and then 100.

Also that awkward moment when you don’t bother calculating Shatter damage into the equation since as I clearly state, that is part of the design process of the weapon.

That other awkward moment when you don’t consider the fact that weapon scaling is different for the stats and in actuality Scepter scales slightly stronger than any other weapon off power, for instance.

That further other awkward moment when you ignore the point I make about how it needs appropriate trait support.

I really don’t mind people disliking things. I really don’t. However please, if you’re going to argue use ACTUAL theory, ACTUAL math, ACTUAL data. Do that, come back to us, present your case and I’ll listen.

(Also note your damage calculations about the staff are laughable since there is absolutely no indicator of frequency of conditions, nor percentages of application and as such are no measure of damage in any relative way other than its potential.)

By your numbers, corrected for well…math. The GS would land 900 damage in the same time that the Scepter would land 588 damage + 1/3rd 3 clone shatter value which is approximately 300 damage in the circumstances you laid out, although very dependant on timings, although all of this is completely spurious and unscientific adhoc anecdotl testing and somewhat meaningless.

@djones
While I agree that some of zexion’s analysis is flawed, and significant portions of his math is shaky, he does make some good points. Scepter could have reliable shatter damage if the clones spawned at you, instead of in melee range of the monster (they used to do this in the beta, idk why this was changed). Now, you could shatter that clone immediately of course, but because of the shatter mechanic, this greatly decreases potential shatter. On the other hand, not shattering the clone immediately generally means the monster turns and kills it in one hit. The scepter simply is not viable as a clone production mechanism for consistent shatters in pve.

Right now, i really don’t see why i should pick scepter over greatsword. For pve dungeons that is. Not only because GS brings way better support, range, AE, trait support and utility (and damage too, i guess), but because in my opinion GS even beats the scepter in its very own domain: creating clones.

The scepter creates one clone every four seconds, yes, but only if you spend the whole time doing nothing else than auto attacks. Creating a clone is not a free side product, it’s a time consuming process and get’s often delayed or even aborted. The GS on the other side creates one clone every 6 1/2 seconds, just as a little bonus on top of an nearly instant, high damage, high supportive attack. You can rezz, dodge, purge, knock back, dispell and all that nice stuff while still maintaining a very high clone output.

So even if i run shatter or “on clone dead” builds, i highly prefer GS for that and that’s what just kills the scepter for me. I would really love to see it become more viable, especially so i can make more use of our offhand weapons.

Staff can be traited to generate a clone every 5 seconds requiring 20 points in the incredibly useful chaos line. Its auto attacks aren’t far behind scepters in combined damage with a power build, probably better with illusionary elasticity, and its clones are actually useful.

Mirror Blade with greatsword training and illusionist celerity generates a clone every 4.6 seconds as well.

So the scepters effect is only useful in some kind of full on glass cannon shatter centric build. Maybe if you go something like 10/30/0/0/30

Rhyno.7084:

Enlighten us – on what occasion do you need to use the scepter over every other weapon, in PVE?

Seriously? Clone generation and range obviously.

Are you one of the people like “zexion” who say stuff along the lines of “Auto attack is low damage, weapon must be garbage.” If so I don’t want to bother. I still can’t believe there are people who are blind to everything except immediate damage.

The hilarious part is when people (zexion) talk about auto attack damage but they don’t even understand how it displays.

Seriously? Range? Greatsword has far better range and is superior at maintaining it. Staff has far better range and is superior at maintaining it.
Clone generation? I suppose if you want to generate a clone that does nothing, then, sure. Staff clones fire Winds of Chaos, which is far better and synergizes well with iWarlock.

Are you one of those people who makes blanket statements and can’t actually support it with a good argument? Yeah…guess you are.

The problem with Scepter is the clone generation isn’t immediate. With every other weapon it’s just pop a skill and you’re done. Scepter you either autoattack 3 times, or wait for something to hit you. Meanwhile using the Confuse Ray means not generating clones. With other weapons you can spam every other ability then come back to generate the clone again when it’s off cooldown.

I’d say the only instance I’d prefer Scepter as a generator is if I either traited for on-clone-death effects, or I had Time Warp on me.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Rhyno.7084:

Enlighten us – on what occasion do you need to use the scepter over every other weapon, in PVE?

Seriously? Clone generation and range obviously.

Are you one of the people like “zexion” who say stuff along the lines of “Auto attack is low damage, weapon must be garbage.” If so I don’t want to bother. I still can’t believe there are people who are blind to everything except immediate damage.

The hilarious part is when people (zexion) talk about auto attack damage but they don’t even understand how it displays.

Seriously? Range? Greatsword has far better range and is superior at maintaining it. Staff has far better range and is superior at maintaining it.
Clone generation? I suppose if you want to generate a clone that does nothing, then, sure. Staff clones fire Winds of Chaos, which is far better and synergizes well with iWarlock.

Are you one of those people who makes blanket statements and can’t actually support it with a good argument? Yeah…guess you are.

The Greatsword is a 2-handed weapon.
The Staff is a 2-handed weapon.

If you are going to tell me that off hands aren’t worth using, just stop posting and learn the character.

Your “argument” is that scepter clones don’t auto attack for a lot of damage. Are you seriously dropping clones for their auto attacks? I sure hope not. Seriously though sit down and read the Mesmer’s traits and go watch some tutorial videos, save me the time of explaining it all.

If you want to hit F1 on cooldown, any weapon will get you there. If you’re using any clone-producing utility skill, the clone-on-dodge trait, or using the cooldowns on both weapon sets, you can hit F1 and F2 on cooldown. The scepter needs to bring something special to the table, and it just doesn’t.

If you want to hit F1 on cooldown, any weapon will get you there. If you’re using any clone-producing utility skill, the clone-on-dodge trait, or using the cooldowns on both weapon sets, you can hit F1 and F2 on cooldown. The scepter needs to bring something special to the table, and it just doesn’t.

Uh, the goal isn’t to use F1 on cooldown, I’m not sure what gave you that idea. The idea is to be able to use your shatters constantly without sacrificing fresh phantasms.

Summoning an iWarden and an iBerserker to get an extra two seconds of invuln is a big sacrifice. Dropping two quick clones instead, so you can drop your phantasms right after is much, much better.

Bring to the table that the other weapons don’t?

Make the first two attacks of the chain explode on the target for an AoE that can hit 4 other nearby enemies. Even just make it half the damage to the extra target or even all of them, and I’ll be happy.

If that is done, I can live without a Condition on the skill. I can live with the lengthy time it takes to throw an attack. And I know I’ll be very happy in many PvE situations, especially in DEs.

i can’t quote him for some reason, but the second poster in this thread said that the clone from the scepter auto attack is replacing phantasms

if this is happening that is a bug and you need to report it. other clones never overwrite phantasms.

From Personal Experience Dixa.6017, any Clone skill will overwrite the oldest Phantasm IF and ONLY IF there are three Phantasms out. Otherwise, they will only overwrite the oldest, and with the cases of 2x Phantasms only Clone.

Thats actually been useful, when kiting Champions for me. With Crippling Dissipation, timing, and 2x Phantasms out, I can lead the target next to the sole clone right when I’m about to summon a new Clone whether by Dodge Roll, skill, or just Scepter Auto-attack (if I’m using the scepter, which is rare).

It can also work on groups, but I’ve found that a group is more likely to pop the Phantasms & Clones anyways while Champions I can get reasonably targeting just me as long as I don’t use a Stealth skill.

How is the sceptre at all good for shatter builds?

You can generate clones considerably faster by slotting Deceptive Evasion and … using just about any other weapon. Slot Mirrored Images if you want to be especially “bursty”. Shatter builds are already mediocre – why would you kitten yourself even more by relying on the Ether Bolt attack chain?

The only time I’ve used the sceptre is during boss fights where melee is too dangerous for me, yet not so dangerous that I can’t get decent mileage off of Warden’s Feedback. Yes, offhand weapons are carrying the mainhand ones.

Furienify.5738:

How is the sceptre at all good for shatter builds?

You can generate clones considerably faster by slotting Deceptive Evasion and … using just about any other weapon. Slot Mirrored Images if you want to be especially “bursty”. Shatter builds are already mediocre – why would you kitten yourself even more by relying on the Ether Bolt attack chain?

The only time I’ve used the sceptre is during boss fights where melee is too dangerous for me, yet not so dangerous that I can’t get decent mileage off of Warden’s Feedback. Yes, offhand weapons are carrying the mainhand ones.

Totally. Scepter has 2 Clone-generating skills: the block and the auto-attack. In dungeons, the Block is pretty useless; you’ll rarely want to get attacked. The auto-attack takes a good 4-5 seconds of continuous, uninterrupted ‘casting’ to get to the third clone-generating skill.

All said and done, I find my clone generation much better with the dodge-roll trait than with scepter.

It’s a shame that Staff doesn’t have a condition-causing, ranged buddy to pair with. I’d love to see scepter clones pick up a condition like staff and sword clones have.

The first skill chain could certainly be sped up a bit (though the people saying it takes 4-5 seconds to get a clone are really overstating it). It’s silly to say “you can get more clones with sword + dodge trait”, as the dodge trait can be used with scepter to get even MORE clones than any other weapon + dodge trait.

Really, the only thing I think the scepter needs is a pass on animation delays and responsiveness. The skills on it are quite good with the right traits/stats.

For PvP I use Staff and Scepter/Pistol. I do pretty well. Sure the weapon could use a little love but I don’t think it is as bad as people are making it out to be.

For PvE I’ve been using Staff plus sword/focus just because the focus phantasm does a ridiculous amount of damage to stationary pve mobs.

As it is i really think is lucklaster in many aspect. How about adding a confusion stack at every base attack?

Scepter’s main problem is how slow #1 is, and how sort the inter-skill gap is (it resets if you use another ability in between, which is ok if each individual animation is quick, but they ain’t).

Other than that it works for what it does. Confuse is an issue which is bigger than Scepter, so nothing which should be fixed Scepter side, and Clones are very spammable.
In fact, even before Dodge-clones you can out-do your shatter CDs (all 4 of them) with a Scepter-setup. You’d need Signet of Illusions to be able to bleed off your clones.

In other words, Scepter allows for builds without 20 Dueling which are Clone-dependent. Something not possible with the other weapons.

Just incase anyone doesn’t know this, the block skill on the scepter also damages the enemy on a successful block. The damage isn’t low either, the block is one of our highest hitting attacks, its stronger than an untraited mind wrack (to a single enemy) and on a shorter cooldown too. It’s probably my most used skill in PvE after Confusing Images, the other scepter skill, which is the mesmer highest damaging attack and apllies 5 stacks of confusion, which is stronger in PvE than it is in PvP if anyone didn’t know.

I like the second and third attack on the scepter. So.. 2 our of 3 ain’t bad?

For the first attack I kind of wish the autoattack had better clones that appeared near me instead of in melee, or the confuse was back, or more damage.

Maybe the second would be cool with a one second blur or a ranged damage reflect 1 second added on The block is pretty cool in general though.

But it could be the necromancer axe bleh.

It’s at that point where it could be stronger but a drastic buff could throw it out of whack also.

I just started 3 days and my 1st character is a Human Mesmer.

Judging from the points you guys mention. Scepter still kickkitten if i know how to use it?

I am using Scepter + Sword Offhand.

Clones created every 4 hits or so. and i have that skill from my off hand sword which creates further clones for attacking.

Yeah all my skills are about creating clones and shattering them in enemies faces. Every 2 clones created, i would just hit F 1 – F4 and send them to explodes. Don’t mind me, i am a newbie, but that’s my play style.

But i find that scepter is fun to use even though you guys mention that it’s underwhelming or whatever.

I am not here to argue. I am just here to share my points on scepters.

It is cool if you know how to use it.

ah yea this thread, reminds me of how much i hate scepter.
it seems so unresponsive and the auto attack seems to take ages, especially the third overhead one. it’s like scepter guardian but worse.

Scepter is almost purely a skirmish weapon, as such it is naturally almost useless in PvE. The auto-attack is too slow to be worth using to get clones, although the clone is a nice bonus if you capitalize on it right after spawning it. Scepter clones also suck; compare them to sword clones (fast vulnerability stacking, crit bleed, enchant removal) and staff clones (deal actual damage), so they’re purely shatter fodder.

Another thing with scepter is it doesn’t know whether it’s a condition weapon or not. If you aren’t condition spec, sword is so much stronger there’s no comparison. If you are, you have one attack and a fraction of your shatters, otherwise it’s all power-based.

Nonetheless, the scepter hasn’t failed me in the situations it is useful. Against a single big enemy (such as a player character), scepter 2 gives a nice amount of invulnerability, okay damage and a fast clone. Scepter 3 has probably the highest possible single-target damage you can deal if you’re condition spec and time it right. The hurdle is that unlike Blurred Frenzy, if you exchange it with an enemy big hitter, you’re the one who will lose out. Also unlike Blurred Frenzy, the only proper way to use it is exactly when the enemy is attacking.

My proposed scepter buff would be directed at the auto-attack: change some of the damage to minor conditions, so it’s an actual condition weapon and the scepter clones become somewhat useful to keep around.

I honestly don’t see any problems with the scepter.

I kite champion mobs with it, it’s the best weapon to pump out illusions if you’re a shatter focus build. (Which tends to work very effectively, in PvP.))

The only use for Scepter I have found is that it spawns it’s clones at the enemy. This means they will guaranteed die. This makes them ripe to setup a “on death produce X” style build because there’s around 3-5 traits/bonuses that modify what happens to a clone on death. As such I use it in a hybrid Support/Condition/Confuse build that I run for dungeons.

Scepter works well when clones are traited to cripple and condition on death. The auto-attack now becomes serious condition spam.

The clones die because they get one-shotted, or because you make more clones. This synergizes well with phantasms because the clones don’t overwrite the phantasms (as long as you don’t have 3 phantasms). Using two phantasms is optimum in this scenario because every three auto-attacks explodes a clone.

This also works because the clones spawn in melee range. If the clones spawned next to you (900m away from the foe), then nothing would get the conditions.

This is how I use the scepter and it’s quite useful this way. I also like the block/blind as well as the confusion skill. Five stacks of confusion are great imo.

The only complaint I have is that the clones do not have a condition associated with their auto-attack (because they use the first skill in the scepter auto-attack chain). So my recommendation would be add a single, simple condition to that attack in the chain. A lot of people suggested confusion but that would be seriously powerful (I’d wager OP). Three easily crated clones spamming confusion — nobody would live in a 1v1 vs a scepter mesmer.

Think about it if illusions could summon illusions.

Yo dawg I heard you like making clones…

If each clone could summon its own set of clones..

Scepter is my favorite weapon for mesmers. But after a while, I felt forced to use Sword/GS while leveling, since Staff and Scepter sucks at that domain. I’m hoping to get somewhere with a scepter later on, when I get higher level.

the biggest problem with the scepter is it’s 900 range imo… I mean, if it had some amazing ability that was better than the GS or Staff for damage output, or clone creation.. or even AOE, then i could see the 900 range justified…

just my own opinion, feel free to explain why may be wrong.

I am making a detail post about my build very soon. I found scepter/pistol to be very strong. The two key is so good when you time it right.

Rhyno.7084:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Rhyno.7084:

Enlighten us – on what occasion do you need to use the scepter over every other weapon, in PVE?

Seriously? Clone generation and range obviously.

Are you one of the people like “zexion” who say stuff along the lines of “Auto attack is low damage, weapon must be garbage.” If so I don’t want to bother. I still can’t believe there are people who are blind to everything except immediate damage.

The hilarious part is when people (zexion) talk about auto attack damage but they don’t even understand how it displays.

Seriously? Range? Greatsword has far better range and is superior at maintaining it. Staff has far better range and is superior at maintaining it.
Clone generation? I suppose if you want to generate a clone that does nothing, then, sure. Staff clones fire Winds of Chaos, which is far better and synergizes well with iWarlock.

Are you one of those people who makes blanket statements and can’t actually support it with a good argument? Yeah…guess you are.

The Greatsword is a 2-handed weapon.
The Staff is a 2-handed weapon.

If you are going to tell me that off hands aren’t worth using, just stop posting and learn the character.

Your “argument” is that scepter clones don’t auto attack for a lot of damage. Are you seriously dropping clones for their auto attacks? I sure hope not. Seriously though sit down and read the Mesmer’s traits and go watch some tutorial videos, save me the time of explaining it all.

You should take a heavy dose of that advice you are doling out. You clearly don’t know what you are talking about, and you failed to comprehend my post on a basic level.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Rhyno.7084:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Rhyno.7084:

Enlighten us – on what occasion do you need to use the scepter over every other weapon, in PVE?

Seriously? Clone generation and range obviously.

Are you one of the people like “zexion” who say stuff along the lines of “Auto attack is low damage, weapon must be garbage.” If so I don’t want to bother. I still can’t believe there are people who are blind to everything except immediate damage.

The hilarious part is when people (zexion) talk about auto attack damage but they don’t even understand how it displays.

Seriously? Range? Greatsword has far better range and is superior at maintaining it. Staff has far better range and is superior at maintaining it.
Clone generation? I suppose if you want to generate a clone that does nothing, then, sure. Staff clones fire Winds of Chaos, which is far better and synergizes well with iWarlock.

Are you one of those people who makes blanket statements and can’t actually support it with a good argument? Yeah…guess you are.

The Greatsword is a 2-handed weapon.
The Staff is a 2-handed weapon.

If you are going to tell me that off hands aren’t worth using, just stop posting and learn the character.

Your “argument” is that scepter clones don’t auto attack for a lot of damage. Are you seriously dropping clones for their auto attacks? I sure hope not. Seriously though sit down and read the Mesmer’s traits and go watch some tutorial videos, save me the time of explaining it all.

You should take a heavy dose of that advice you are doling out. You clearly don’t know what you are talking about, and you failed to comprehend my post on a basic level.

If we can get away from vitriol for a moment…both of you make valid points.

Sceptre exists mainly for 2 reasons based on its current design:

1) Psuedo tank (illusionary defense+sword illusionary riposte)
2) Clone spam

Please note the second. It’s not JUST that it create clones, it generates TONS of them, very fast. Seeing as how illusions overwrite one another, the best possible use of it would be to generate, destroy, and re-generate clones. Therefore, shatter. Sceptre is BUILT for shattering, plain and simple.

That is not to say it has the best SUSTAINED clones. Ether bolt I think we can all agree is sub-par compared to other clone attacks. If you want a build that makes use of clones for more than shatter spam, you do not want sceptre. Staff, 1hs, and GS make much better use of sustained clones (i.e. clones that you arne’t just pumping out shatters on constantly, but instead leave up for other uses)

TL;DR

-Sceptre exists to make clones, and therefore shatter them
-Other weapons create far better clones if you want to do anything with them besides shatter.

The point was that sceptre is for clone generation and range. Assuming you are generating clones for shatters, I 100% agree. If you want them for anything else, sceptre is not what you want them for.

As for range….I will disagree in that staff and GS provide equal or better range for most abilities and are far more useful in any non-shatter situation.

Now, as to when I’d use sceptre over anything else? If I wanted a crazy tanky build, I might pick it. Two blocks+massive clonespam for dazes/distortions could be handy. Not my style personally, but I can see it being viable.

To be blunt, after replacing my starter scepter with a sword, I never ever used another scepter again. I pretty much leveled 1-80 never using the scepter outside of the tutorial zone. I used GS, Sword/Focus, and to a lesser extent, Staff.

I’ve never found a situation where I’ve ever said “man, I should really be using a scepter in this fight…”

I’ve posted my GS Cloneshaterer build in the official mesmer builds thread. Maybe if I were running a scepter/sword build centered around Retaliatory Shield (gain Retaliation on block) for WvW/sPvP, but that would have to be a really tanky, non-DPS oriented build to play effectively I think (it would require a high skill level, and lower ping than I can achieve…)

i main scepter/focus in wvw. imho all the weapons are good for different situations. i like sword in spvp but in wvw it would be near useless as getting in close to 10x people will usually mean death. so it will not be as good unless you are 1v1-3 ing someone you caught out of position. i absolutely love scepter in wvw and pve it does things other weapons just dont do. if you cannot appreciate confuse on the thief that is killing your friend i dont know what to tell you. i wouldnt use this weapon in spvp or certain dungeons but i really like it fine the way it is.

This is the build I have found funy to play with scepter
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fgAQNAraWlwzKoXUTmGbNJhJF9G5nZEdpjqw1LfA3A;TsAgyCposxYjwGrNObk2sIYExkAA
I was looking for build to get a good confusion damage, keep my duelist stacking bleeds and still hit with a good numbers, and have survivality.
The problem is you cant have good condition damage with high crit and a lot of power to make a burst from duelist, by not sacrificing survivality. But this build makes a good mix of everything. It has 1,1k condition damage, your phantasm duelist has a 40% crit chance with fury trait to crit and stack bleeds until it reaches about 50-60 % crit with full stacked sigil of minor accuracy. It has 12% increased critical damage. Atack is 2,500 and still having almost 24k hp and 2,3k armor.
I think its perfect balance of condition damage, burst and survivality scepter build.

Just a little fix to this build abovd. The runes of dolyak has to be changed wit the superior runes of divinity. Fixed link:
http://tinyurl.com/cgvkk2w

Irilith.9456:

Right now, i really don’t see why i should pick scepter over greatsword.

True, but sadly, if I want to use focus or any offhand, I can’t use GS or staff. And sword blows offensively (low damage, easily kited).