Guild Wars 2

kagenin.5231:

Maybe if I were running a scepter/sword build centered around Retaliatory Shield (gain Retaliation on block) for WvW/sPvP, but that would have to be a really tanky,

Tried it. Was less effective than you’d think. 3 seconds of retaliation is just too short.
You can get 5 seconds of retaliation per clone shattered with Cry of Frustration with the trait. (which is otherwise an extremely dumb trait since Cry of frustration scales with condition damage while Retaliation scales with power but that’s par for the course for mesmer – everything is antisynergetic as hell).

Tbh, a lot of the problem with the Scepter’s vaunted ‘clone generation’ is:

1. Shatters have a cooldown. Almost any build in existence can generate enough illusions for your main shatters. That degree of surplus clones is irrelevant, unless you’re doing extreme clone generation. In which case, just take Deceptive Evasion and call it a day.

2. Scepter’s main clone generation is on the autoattack, and autoattacks suck. When I play my Mesmer, I make a specific effort to autoattack as little as possible by using “non-suck” attacks. The block->clone is infrequent. As a result, when you compare the raw clone generation between a 4.8s Mirror Blade versus Scepter … Scepter has an advantage, but it’s not by a huge margin. Comparing it to MH sword … Scepter has an advantage, but it’s only by a moderate margin.

which is otherwise an extremely dumb trait since Cry of frustration scales with condition damage while Retaliation scales with power but that’s par for the course for mesmer – everything is antisynergetic as hell

Or, the Retal trait gives power-based Mesmers a better reason to use Cry of Frustration rather than let the button collect dust.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought scepter was great especially because the clones die fast and spawn at mob? I run with scepter/torch and having my illusions die quickly is central to my build.

1. domination IV: clone aoe cripples foe when killed
2. chaos IV: clone applies aoe random condition when killed
3. duelling at 15 points: illusions cause bleeding on crit, X: clone created on dodge, at 25 points: illusions cause confusion when killed.
4. illusions: faster illusion summoning, confusion last longer, phantasm recharge faster and can shatter illusion for might.

Add to that mirror image and decoy for more clones generation plus more goodies from staff swapping. fun, exciting, effective… or am I missing totally the bus on mesmer?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fgQQNArfWlwzKoXUzpGaNJipCBHaGXn3RqQpVmxsdhA;T8AA2ysEQJxSllCLqiMFJKyWkrIZRrCGJMTA

Zia.9251:

Maybe I’m wrong, but I thought scepter was great especially because the clones die fast and spawn at mob? I run with scepter/torch and having my illusions die quickly is central to my build.

1. domination IV: clone aoe cripples foe when killed
2. chaos IV: clone applies aoe random condition when killed
3. duelling at 15 points: illusions cause bleeding on crit, X: clone created on dodge, at 25 points: illusions cause confusion when killed.
4. illusions: faster illusion summoning, confusion last longer, phantasm recharge faster and can shatter illusion for might.

Add to that mirror image and decoy for more clones generation plus more goodies from staff swapping. fun, exciting, effective… or am I missing totally the bus on mesmer?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fgQQNArfWlwzKoXUzpGaNJipCBHaGXn3RqQpVmxsdhA;T8AA2ysEQJxSllCLqiMFJKyWkrIZRrCGJMTA

This is exactly what I was saying earlier. The scepter is good for clone spam where the clones “die” and inflict conditions as a result. It’s one of my main uses for the scepter (and I like the scepter a lot as a result). The other two scepter skills are gravy on top of this main use (and good gravy at that).

The frequent clone creation will also support the shatters — which I use when the mob is about to die OR when it has high AoE payoff (mob clusters) OR when I need an interrupt (F3). The scepter is great for this as well since it takes very little time to get your clones back — faster than any other weapon (I’m disregarding utility skills here because those are available regardless of weapon).

Yeah, but with that build I use deceptive evasion anyways.

Those traits do not justify Mirror Images, though. MI is more for burst combos.

Mirror Images and Deceptive Evasion are really the only two abilities you need for any shatter build – and it’s absolutely faster than the scepter.

I run a Shatter S/P-Staff build and with deceptive evasion I can shatter with 3 clones on cooldown. Scepter just is not worth it in it’s current state.

What are dissapation skills please?

Rebel.6419:

What are dissapation skills please?

i believe refers to traits that give clones on-death abilities – cripple or apply conditions

note: these do not work if shattered, but work if the clone is replaced by another clone.

I leveled up to 80 as duelist primarily with sword+everything. I avoid staffs except in the larger PVE events. My ranged go-to weapon was a scepter.

i started out [sword/torch], [scepter/torch]

i in the 30’s i switched to [sword/focus], [scepter/pistol]

in the 50’s to 80 i settled on [sword/sword], [scepter/pistol]

I liked sword torch (prestige is great for how I play, but the iMage is pretty meh).

I just hit 80 and I’m doing a bleeding condition build with 30 duelist, 30 illusion, 10 chaos.

My main utility setup is the big heal, summon 2 clones, stealth and summon a clone, blink, and time warp.

Going from memory the major slots were things like, create a clone on dodge, clones bleed on crit, confusion on clone death, all shatters confuse, random condition on clone death etc. Basically a build that can make a ridiculous amount of clones, and killing them yourself, shattering them, having the enemies kill them, or letting them hit on enemies are all reasonable actions, which you can try to push favoring one over the other. Sometimes the bleed on crits just wont work (some veteran creatures just blow them up too fast). But this kind of build can pump out clones like crazy, and the scepter is frequently the glue to hold you over until the skills are off cooldown, or you need a second block, or you need to dodge twice to pop out two clones and go ranged for a few seconds, pop out a duelist, then go back to sword etc.

The class has a lot of other builds but thats kind of where I settled. Having a block on each weapon loadout is invaluable, as I am one of those weirdos running around with sword off hand

The main issue with scepter is the generation of clones that kills phantasms. Mesmers all around Tyria are waiting for the day they learn to use pistol in their main hands.

A possible fix to scepter would be to make clones not destroy phantasms when you have 3 of them.

The problem with Scepter is that the main attack of the scepter clones do no inflict anything. In the other hand you have staff clone attacking with WOC for boons and Conditions, MH Sword inflicting Vulnerability but the Scepter is not doing nothing not even a 1sec. confusion.

Personally I have no issues with sceptor. I switched out of it when I started to rely on my staff more and more for support and buffs. I didn’t want my staff clones to be replaced by sceptor clones.

Sadly now I am left with sword which only gets flipped to when I need hit #2 while waiting for a dodge or my off hand focus to makes some distance with portal and into the void. Also have focus on that hand which is invaluable for other things. Also sword is handy to break stuff. Seems every other weapon takes a century to break stuff.

Eventually I want to make another mesmer to clone spam with. I don’t think anything could be more hilarious then watching a bunch of mini asuras running everywhere and exploding all up in everybodies grills. Bah, curse this game mechanic. All the classes have so many different ways to play and no where near enough character slots to do it.

I don’t know whether or not to be embarassed, but I love running scepter/pistol with GS as my main weapons. I find the blend fully versatile for PvE, dungeons and WvW. Once in awhile I’ll have issues with a thief that seems to be attacking from cloak… don’t know if that’s a skill or rendering issue, but the vast majority of times I’m the one collecting the loot bag.

Sezneg.8630:

The first skill chain could certainly be sped up a bit (though the people saying it takes 4-5 seconds to get a clone are really overstating it). It’s silly to say “you can get more clones with sword + dodge trait”, as the dodge trait can be used with scepter to get even MORE clones than any other weapon + dodge trait.

But unlike Sword and Staff, Scepter clones have no secondary effect. Consider that any weapon can make enough clones to fuel shattering, so those additional clones from scepter + dodge trait are only good for their secondary effects, of which scepter has none. Even Greatsword clones hit three times per attack making them better for Sharper Images. Scepter Clones are by far the weakest clone.

We have four types of clones which have secondary effects:

• Sword – causes Vulnerability on hits #1 and #2, then strips a boon on hit #3
• Staff – applies debuffs just like the normal Winds of Chaos
• Harpoon – uses the old pre-change Harpoon #1, causing Confusion then jumping to allies, healing them
• Spear – evades during the animation of the third hit, becoming invulnerable.

And two which do not have a secondary effect:

• Greatsword – however, due to causing 3 individual hits per attack, it is quite good when paired with Sharper Images
• Scepter – <nothing>

Scepter is ok with on death conditions since they spawn in melee but what really bothers me about it is how slow and sluggish it feels.

The skill 1 chain is rather slow to get off.

That could eb allright if atleast your skill 2 and 3 where faster but no.

So we have a slow chain, on skill 2 a counter that also takes some time to trigger ( and looks a bit dull) and on skill 3 a channeling beam that takes… time.

And in the end everything takes allot of time and I feel like my skills aren’t really coming out and it ends up boring me a bit too fast.

Also spell counter could use an updated visual/animation and sound effect aswell.

It really looks unappealing.

You guys are all talking every 4 seconds, every 5 seconds, every 8 seconds…

great for a long boss fight that doesn’t AOE and destroy your illusions in one hit.

Against normal mobs or even Vets, my thief can wipe those out in less than 2-6 seconds while not getting hit more than once (on a bad fight).

With that perspective, it seems really odd to see you guys fighting over such small numbers when the whole mechanic is sub par.

I love the concept of the Mezmer, but I think it has some major flaws.

Scepter/torch + staff condition spam build works pretty well for tanking/support but lacks dps in small scale battles.
Always same problem with scepter imo, the 1 attack is hmm lets say disapointing

The reason Scepter #1 is so slow is to due a bug/designproblem with chains:
The next skill doesn’t trigger until the previous one connects.

Now, Scepter is the sole weapon for which the chain is also a projectile. Watch the “stutter” in animation after each shot. What happens is that your char aborts the animation and switches to the next skill.
In other words, you fire substantially faster from melee range than max range with the scepter. Try it.