Guild Wars 2

It’s the fact a profession like thieves do not need the passive speed boost.

Before I get boo’d to hell for this, I just rather see Mesmer’s receive bugfixes and not just randomly buffed so we can be QQ’d at and harshly nerfed again because “that’ll teach you for being a viable class” – Anet 2014

Not to mention Mesmer’s do possess a lot of ways to reposition or even slip out of combat and their “poor” chase potential is a little exaggerated.

Flarefox.9713:

It’s the fact a profession like thieves do not need the passive speed boost.

Before I get boo’d to hell for this, I just rather see Mesmer’s receive bugfixes and not just randomly buffed so we can be QQ’d at and harshly nerfed again because “that’ll teach you for being a viable class” – Anet 2014

Not to mention Mesmer’s do possess a lot of ways to reposition or even slip out of combat and their “poor” chase potential is a little exaggerated.

I don’t think it’s so much getting away that’s the problem as it is keeping up. If an enemy wants to run away it’s difficult unless you have traveler’s runes. Poor chase potential is not exaggerated at all. You flat out are not going to keep up with someone if they have 25% run speed and you don’t. Also in WvW you’ll find yourself in the “tail” of the zerg unless you have traveler’s runes.

I actually don’t care about PvP at all at this point. I just want to play my mesmer in solo PvE without feeling like I’m limping everywhere.

Bring on the run speed signet.

So we are like thieves. But we shouldn’t receive a passive speed boost, like thieves? And this is not about being able to catch people. For most of us this has to do with build diversity. The Mesmer has to go with runes like centaur/speed/traveler, or use focus, to achieve speed. All of the other classes have options for perma speed boosts: so should we.

Mesmers definitely need a run speed utility/trait and to think any differently is ignorant. Proposing that we ‘give up’ run speed so that we can get bug fixes is just stupid. Maybe Mesmers shouldn’t get gold/karma/xp so Anet can fix Mesmer bug fixes faster?

Being stuck using Traveler/Centaur/Speed (ick) runes severely limits the classes’ potential.

The run speed issue and Mesmer bugs are not related and giving up one to fix the other is daft.

Wow.

I think more importantly the issue is that we almost cannot function without slotting Blink. It’s a good utility, sure, but a movement speed signet would give us an extra, potentially meaningful utility we can use instead. In the other thread(and frankly, this topic should be merged into that one rather than clutter space up pointlessly), someone suggested they replace Inspiration’s passive with 25% movement speed; I like this idea, because it opens up a full signet build a little more and has a more measurable impact on the class as a whole than “you get a buff you actually want about once a minute”.

When I think about it, I do think the class would require more extensive rebalancing if we got access to a movement speed signet. Between the Phase Retreat chase strategy(target something else to blink forward), traited Blink, Compounding Celerity(illusions increase movement), and Greatsword #4, we’re already very good pursuers – when I think about it, I’ve never failed to catch up to someone who isn’t specifically set up to get away as fast as possible, barring thieves that use their skills in very clever ways.

As for keeping up with the blob – why aren’t you running focus anyway? Not only does Temporal Curtain help catch anyone who’s somehow been missed by swiftness AoEs, but it also yanks unprepared people off of walls and – when it’s not bugged, anyway – can be traited to spread a lot of damage around PvDoor players.
Note: If your zerg is fast, then guardians are probably using staff, and warriors are either forced to use warbanners or warhorns. Which is to say everyone makes sacrifices for the good of the zerg, and your own weapon choice should be no exception if the zerg is your style.

…Back on topic:
Don’t look at the lack of a movement speed passive as a weakness of the class. Look at it as an enforcement of a most basic Mesmer skill: ARRIVE FASHIONABLY LATE.

two things
one Mesmer definitely need a speed boost because having to take specific runes just to be on par with other classes doesn’t make sense from any balancing view point.

two guardians are only slightly better on getting swiftness and don’t have a speed boost either without traveler runes.

A lot of you guys are missing the point that I may have failed to make. Kadj’s post nailed my thoughts right on the head.

First off, I don’t believe Thieves should have a passive speed boost. With the stealth and versatile mobility, the 25% speed boost is icing on the cake. Speed boost, imp, should be for the classes with kitten poor manoeuvrability – i.e. Necomancers can justify their passive speed.

Secondly, if everyone moves 25% faster, what’s the point having speed boosts anyways? We’d all be moving at the same speed relative to each other then. There should be clear trade-offs and when that occurs, you see build diversity – a good indicator of balance.

Third, you pretend you can’t chase. I can give you that, to an extent. However, blinks, clone passive speed trait, sword #2 (immobility, yes bugged at times sure), GS #4, Curtain, Daze, Torment and Confusion (for those pesky Thief heartseeker spam escape) are ways to catch or even punish fleeing enemies if you all weren’t so close minded in one certain playstyle.

tl;dr: Main points are thieve’s shouldn’t have the passive speed boost (subtle Thief QQ) and Mesmers shouldn’t be homogenized because “other classes have shiny boosts, why not us”

Flarefox.9713:

A lot of you guys are missing the point that I may have failed to make. Kadj’s post nailed my thoughts right on the head.

First off, I don’t believe Thieves should have a passive speed boost. With the stealth and versatile mobility, the 25% speed boost is icing on the cake. Speed boost, imp, should be for the classes with kitten poor manoeuvrability – i.e. Necomancers can justify their passive speed.

Secondly, if everyone moves 25% faster, what’s the point having speed boosts anyways? We’d all be moving at the same speed relative to each other then. There should be clear trade-offs and when that occurs, you see build diversity – a good indicator of balance.

Third, you pretend you can’t chase. I can give you that, to an extent. However, blinks, clone passive speed trait, sword #2 (immobility, yes bugged at times sure), GS #4, Curtain, Daze, Torment and Confusion (for those pesky Thief heartseeker spam escape) are ways to catch or even punish fleeing enemies if you all weren’t so close minded in one certain playstyle.

tl;dr: Main points are thieve’s shouldn’t have the passive speed boost (subtle Thief QQ) and Mesmers shouldn’t be homogenized because “other classes have shiny boosts, why not us”

We are talking out-of-combat speed not in combat.

Xavi.6591:

We are talking out-of-combat speed not in combat.

Still applys to in-combat.

Also, mind, having no speed boost OoC probably really only applies if you’re solo roaming or exploring (and if you’re exploring, you’re probably gonna run Focus for the Curtain).

Zergs provide a kittenton of speedboosts I never found the need to run focus while grouped in WvW because some elementalist, Warrior, other Mesmer will provide a permanent 33% boost for me.

I guess for ANet to add 25% boost to buff Mesmer, either one of the following need to be true.

1. Nerf other Mesmer skill(s) and need to give something back to the class
2. Like the new GM traits, ANet add something new to every class
3. Mesmer is an underdog with fewer and fewer players roll Mesmer

Obviously case 1 is not desirable. In case 2, while Mesmer gets 25% speed boost, for other classes who already got 25% boost will get something even nicer or more useful. If 25% speed boost is only for travelling long distance, this means a relatively nerf of Mesmer in combat. Finally given the hate of Mesmer from other classes, case 3 is very unlikely to happen.

If give and take go hand in hand, getting the 25% speed boost might not an absolute good idea for Mesmer.

I still feel like all classes should have an increased movement speed signet, simply because it provides more flexibility in how we build. Don’t forget that slotting a movement speed signet will mean one less utility slot too. It’s that sort of trade-off that every class should be able to mull over.

In the case of my Mesmer no matter what build I am using, I always have increased movement speed runes, because 1) being slower than everyone else is boring and 2) Focus is not a viable weapon choice at present because of the bugged phantasm. I used to run around WvW with my inventory minimised at the side of the screen swapping my focus in when out of combat but I honestly got fed up of having my screen filled with more UI elements, so I went back to centaur runes because it was simply more fun.

Flarefox.9713:

(and if you’re exploring, you’re probably gonna run Focus for the Curtain).

You have the sense of this backwards. Focus is not a reason for the class to have no passive run speed boost — it is a clumsy, stupid workaround for not having one.

I feel like I am stuck with Focus simply to run around the world, even though I would rather go with Greatsword and Staff. And it makes me not want to play the class.

It would be great when Signet of Inspiration would be changed to give a 25% speed bonus all the time instead of randomly giving swiftness.

Quite honestly, I think that passive speed bonus as well as long-term AEO swiftness should be removed from the game. There should still be abilities and traits that allow you ‘bursts of speed’ — but those should be only useful in a combat situation. The big problem with all the speed bonuses is that they are a significant quality of life improvement in PvE and WWW and as such ‘pervert’ the original idea of combat mobility. I’d rather see more cool pursue/escape skills but leave the base traveling speed of all classes the same.

PvE you got focus with speed runes in open world.

WvW zerg you will allways have a speed boost, and they don’t stack in efficiency with travelers etc – you won’t be the tail.

WvW dueling and chasing is a different story. However sword, blink aswell phase “retreat” well used are good to catch up. We lack in chasing but that’s ok. Every class needs to have + and – (except warriors ofc :P troll) and it would be boring if ANet would work like “Class A has a speedboost, B doesnt. Grant everyone a speed boost for equality!” …

I don’t know why Guardians are even brought up. They have a lot more access to swiftness than just their staff, but more to the point, they use the staff in zergs because it has a lot of other uses, such as Empower and Line of Warding. The Mesmer focus is a bugged weapon with usage scenarios that are very situational.

I’m not so concerned with chasing as I am with general mobility. I scout and play as part of a small havoc team, responding to contested camps and structures. Without Traveler/Centaur runes, my odds of reaching a camp before it is flipped are very low. The problem with the focus is that if I slot it in just for running over to contest something, I may forget to put the torch back in, or I am ganked by a group and have no access to one of my best stealth skills since I’ll be in combat and can no longer change it.

I was excited when they announced new traits, as I thought that I could use something which would rival PU in its usefulness. I really like Maim the Disillusioned, but unfortunately it is only useful if I don the Tormenting runes. It makes for very fun combat for me, but my mobility and usefulness as a scout goes to hell. If I’m going to use Travelers/Centaurs then I might as well just stick with Power PU since a condi build with those runes will be half a loaf. Build diversity among Mesmers isn’t exactly helped by having to choose your weapon/runes just so you can keep up with other jobs.

I think they should set the standard running speed to Travelers speed and tone down access to swiftness.

I’d prefer a speed trait like the ele dagger one honestly. I can’t live without blink and decoy, using my 3rd utility for a speed boost instead of a condition cleanse would have me in conflict. I’m happy with traveler runes for now since both condition duration and boon duration really compliment PU roaming, but I’d like to finally for the first time since Beta use runes on my mesmer with a goal other than speed.

Meh. I’ve said it before and will say it again:
ANet really coded themselves into a corner when they had the “wise” idea to make all move Signets +25%. They should’ve left ’em in a more gradual incline.

• For example, if Thieves are truly supposed to be the “Masters” of Speed, keep ’em at +25%
• Set other classes at 10-20%
• This would then free up some kinda boost for Mesmer and Guardian without half the kittened whinging about “OP.”
• It is sodding ridiculous to have to rely on a half-effective Focus (Thanks for breaking my Warden!) or relatively-to-OMG! priced Runes to get around. Full Stop.
  Enough bloody excuses.
• If it’s such a big issue for PvP, then frigging disable all speedboosts besides Boons, there.

Seriously, we’ve been hashing over this kitten for MONTHS. It needs:

• Dealt with
  … and …
• Buried.

Every class should have the option for a signet… as well as a trait that provides run speed.
The only class that would be the exception would be the engi… they don’t have signets at all. They do have a 25% trait though. I would say in the engis class they should swap Energized Armor (+power based on tuff) from V with power shoes VIII. (this would push one dmg boost up a rung in trade for easier access to the speed buff, outside of bunker builds. )

By doing that every class has access to the same options…. a signet to trade some utility for speed… or traits. Either way it can be made a build choice. Instead of locking a handful of classes into 2-3 rune sets.

Xyonon.3987:

PvE you got focus with speed runes in open world.

12 seconds of swiftness on a 25 second cooldown (without runes) gives you an average of 115.84% speed.

With minor runes of speed it’s 116.47%
With major runes it’s 116.7%
With superior runes it’s 129.6% and you’ve spent 19 gold on it for the privelege. And you have vitality runes that don’t help damage or have any other utility other than random swiftness procs in combat.

…or you could just have a signet that gives you 125% at no cost with whatever weapon you want. I know which one I’d choose.

I know this doesn’t fit into every build,
But I’ve been using Air runes, focus and 6 in Chaos (They all come with how I play my 4/4/6/0/0 build anyway) and that provides perma-swiftness with just the heal and temporal curtain.

Air runes are very useful for power mesmers to begin with, and with movement speed increases being capped (Just tested this last week, only using swiftness I was running the same speed as a thief kitted out with every passive speed boost + swiftness), I’ve never had a problem keeping up with people.

I honestly give up less using Air runes than I would giving up one of my very-valuable utility slots.

Add 25% Passive Swiftness to Decoy. 25% Swiftness stops when Decoy is used.

-You have to choose to blow your Decoy for swiftness or not.
-Mesmers already have a lot of movement in combat so using Decoy would ensure that they don’t always have increased speed in combat.
-Speed is really needed in WvW/PvP more than PvE. Dungeons don’t really require speed. You can still use Travelers runes or Focus if needed.
-Adding Swiftness to Signet of Inspiration makes that signet mandatory for WvW when it is only useful with certain builds. I bet Decoy is used more often than SoI is.

I can’t think of a better ability to tie 25% swiftness to other than Decoy.

The only way this thread makes sense is if Anet is adding Mounts.

Mek.2947:

Flarefox.9713:

It’s the fact a profession like thieves do not need the passive speed boost.

Before I get boo’d to hell for this, I just rather see Mesmer’s receive bugfixes and not just randomly buffed so we can be QQ’d at and harshly nerfed again because “that’ll teach you for being a viable class” – Anet 2014

Not to mention Mesmer’s do possess a lot of ways to reposition or even slip out of combat and their “poor” chase potential is a little exaggerated.

I don’t think it’s so much getting away that’s the problem as it is keeping up. If an enemy wants to run away it’s difficult unless you have traveler’s runes. Poor chase potential is not exaggerated at all. You flat out are not going to keep up with someone if they have 25% run speed and you don’t. Also in WvW you’ll find yourself in the “tail” of the zerg unless you have traveler’s runes.

pretty much this. gw2 is not just about spvp and 1v1 dueling. in wvw its tough if u wanna keep up with your group. but i must say..im so used to being slow by now….i actually run off cliffs a lot with my alts cause im not used to the speed XD.
i do think mesmer is in need of a passive speedboost or a better way to apply out of combat speed.

Yes but isn’t the whole “keeping up”-problem more with how readily available run speed is in this game, Mesmers and sometimes Guardians excepted?

If we want universal catch-up speed, just remove all signets which give movement speed, remove Swiftness’ effect OOC, and improve the OOC-runspeed-buff by 33%. Done, everyone is on even ground.

Xavi.6591:

Add 25% Passive Swiftness to Decoy. 25% Swiftness stops when Decoy is used.

-You have to choose to blow your Decoy for swiftness or not.
-Mesmers already have a lot of movement in combat so using Decoy would ensure that they don’t always have increased speed in combat.
-Speed is really needed in WvW/PvP more than PvE. Dungeons don’t really require speed. You can still use Travelers runes or Focus if needed.
-Adding Swiftness to Signet of Inspiration makes that signet mandatory for WvW when it is only useful with certain builds. I bet Decoy is used more often than SoI is.

I can’t think of a better ability to tie 25% swiftness to other than Decoy.

This. Or actually Blink would be a better choice, just to avoid making it too strong.(runspeed+blink too stronk)

7 words: Centaur runes plus mantra heal equals permanent swiftness

Crap I’m turning into Phil i just noticed that that’s actually eight words XD