Guild Wars 2

Warning: This build is kind of OP as it gives you 2.2k+ ATK 1k+ Condi Dmg, 60% Condi Duration, 19-20k HP (with WvW stacks), 2.5k+ Armor, 59% Crit chance (phantasms have 79%), 2 stuns, rapid might stacking, rapid condition cleansing, a lot of stealth. Many of the builds on other classes you can counter with this one as it is very well covered.

Inspired from a friend and named it after her. I have been running this build for 4-5 months now and it is still intact after recent patch.

This is kind of a hybrid build with many aspects covered thanks to WvW format. It does not translate like this to PvP.

Will add videos, screenshots and a tutorial.

Note that you always have at least 6 stacks (most of the time 10+) of might and once you get the Bloodlust at full stacks and WvW stacks it becomes even more of a beastly build.

THE BUILD:

Traits

4-6-2-2
Domination: Illusionary Power and Cleansing Conflagration
Dueling: Phantasmal Fury, Duelist’s Discipline, Deceptive Evasion
Chaos: Debilitating Dissipation
Inspiration: Mender’s Purity, you can swap this to bountiful interruption in Chaos line and combine with Daze mantra if you have good timing with interrupt and overall.

Weapons

Scepter – Torch
Sword – Pistol

Full berserker weapons or you can tailor it as well according to your other gear to reach a balance.

Sigils: 2x Sigil of Battle, 1x Sigil of Bloodlust, 1xSigil of Energy, Strength or Accuracy.

Armor

A mix of celestial, berserker and toughness armor, you can tailor it according to your desire. Stats focused on here mainly are berserker and toughness stats.

Rune: Strength Runes or Hoelbrak Runes

Trinkets

Rabid trinkets mainly.

Skills

Decoy, Domination Signet and Blink (domination signet can be swapped for different situations but I recommend keeping it in many cases)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRAsa7flknpRtNoxMNcrRiqxYqXOVTkMgFKdHfsNA-TFDEABJcQASZ/BMVpIR1QmUFhpU6JxTAoN9PAciCaUVAoUG4lSwAAIAG6QH6QH6QboDdoDdoDtUAwsAA-w

Note: As long as you explain your reasoning or provide a constructive feedback you are welcome and encouraged to respond.

Looks kind of average and VERY easy to escape from.

Dirven.3021:

Looks kind of average and VERY easy to escape from.

I would like to try it against the build that makes it easy to escape from according to you. Also, it is a build that allows you to escape very conveniently as well.

I´m a bit sceptical about your mobility as well – no swiftness, no Traveler runes, no traits for Blink. Have you tried Runes of the Pack? They would add some speed and precision (+fury), so you could lower your base precision for more useful stats, your phantasms should care since they got fury themselves. Of course you lose might duration, not sure what´s actually better. My latest project uses Pack and I was quite impressed by the damage those +20% crit chance add, the swiftness uptime in fight without wasting Temporal Curtain was nice as well.

Schattenlied.4873:

I´m a bit sceptical about your mobility as well – no swiftness, no Traveler runes, no traits for Blink. Have you tried Runes of the Pack? They would add some speed and precision (+fury), so you could lower your base precision for more useful stats, your phantasms should care since they got fury themselves. Of course you lose might duration, not sure what´s actually better. My latest project uses Pack and I was quite impressed by the damage those +20% crit chance add, the swiftness uptime in fight without wasting Temporal Curtain was nice as well.

Thanks for the constructive feedback.

You are right. The only aspect not covered by this build is probably the moving speed.

However, mobility depends on how you play to a great extent. Personally, I swap to focus while running through the map and then reswap to torch quickly when needed. While running from big groups I have never had a trouble as I combine stealth from torch, decoy, mass invis with blink and I am pretty much far away when I end up visible again. I think mesmer needs not as much mobility as other classes because we are already very slippery and tricky even without any extra speed.

Might duration and stacking is however very vital for overall survival as it simply lessens the duration of fight with increased output of direct and condi dmg. Therefore I don’t think it is a good idea to give it up for swiftness.

Btw, last time we duelled you were playing with greatsword in the beginning as far as I remember. I see you have switched it to scepter and focus in two sets. Interesting choice. That lockdown gs build was very effective in open field.

Also:

http://s27.postimg.org/jpooq0wc3/stats.jpg

In this picture is a rough comparison of both our builds with:

5 stacks of might and 25 stack bloodlust on yours
10 stacks of might and 25 stack bloodlust on mine

difference I think was necessary due to Strength-Hoelbrak runes.

You see that

-You have 220 more atk and 30% more crit dmg, 20% more boon duration, 100 more armor, swiftness and focus as CC (not traited so no reflect and longer duration)

-I have 800 more vitality and 800 more condition damage, 20% more condi duration, 9% more crit chance, 2 additional condi removal per 24 sec, extra stealth

And there is either 5% more damage coming from Strength runes OR 20% less applied condition duration from Hoelbrak.

I think you should give it a try with this build too to see if it fits you well.

Kind of an hybrid PU version, but without PU trait. It success cause it’s based on easy/powerful mechanics, as clone death traits, scepter torment and phantasm damage. But I think a 2/6/4/2, a 2/6/6 or even Schattenlied’s build would do a better job.
- The lack of PU paired with 3 stealth skills makes it a bit awkward. You already have torch, so why decoy instead of something more useful?
- Investing just 2 in Chaos is pointless, the good things from this line start at master.
- Then, Mender’s Purity paired with Ether Feast is also wasting a really good condi cleansing, why not take MoR+Harmonious Mantras? With this change you’re free to spend 2 points from domination in somewhere else.
- And the lack of Bountiful Interruption… I run that trait with GS/Staff and it’s not a problem for me to reach 15 stacks of might. You could spent more stats to defensive and get more profit from interrupts.

BTW, that stats comparison is unfair. He will have more might stacks than you thanks to interrupts.

I think Ansau is right, most of the time I have at least 10 stacks, usually more, so the lower might duration doesn´t matter that much because I can reapply it faster (even more so with GS´s Mirrorblade, which is still used for my main build).

I haven´t used Focus for quite a long time due to it´s bugs, so i just wanted to try it again after the patch to have some diversity. This build was not aiming for hybrid damage with might stacks, it´s full power with additional condition damage when the fight lasts longer. My main problem with every lockdown build are thiefs, and I won´t kill those if I have to build up my damage over time with might, their boon removal makes this way even less reliable.

This would be a hybrid version of the Focus-build which would be close to your stats. To be honest, I have tried something similar to your build (it was a hint by Nubu from [BNF], he played 30-30-10-0-0), but I haven´t tested it in detail yet (time consuming RL ;P). I hope I can have a deeper look at both builds later.

This looks like a pretty standard hybrid build.

As with all hybrid builds, the issue is that you can’t actually do everything at once. In this case, both sides of your damage application are very weak.

Your condition damage is very low, so the conditions you apply are going to be almost ignorable. You have no good access to sustained burning, and no access to poison. You have limited access to bleeding, and decent torment of course. Basically, this results in your condition pressure being pretty low, even if you land the torment block.

Your power/crit is actually pretty high. However, you have no good way to actually turn those stats into damage. You’re taking several phantasm damage traits, but you only have 1 phantasm capable of dealing damage. It’s on a decent cooldown, and will die in 1-2 hits from most builds, meaning that you can’t rely on it for pressure.

Ultimately, you’re just going to be unable to pressure people in this build. I’m assuming you’re using this for roaming, since it’s not even remotely suited to large-scale combat. This means you’re going to be running into a lot of builds designed for sustain and continued attrition damage (PU conditions, thieves, nike warriors, d/d eles). Since the patch, you’ll also be running into sniper rangers. You’ll have little to no capability to actually catch up to rangers that don’t want to be caught, and you’ll end up chasing them around as they take you down. As for against the attrition builds, you simply won’t put out enough damage to hurt them. Your damage is spread too thin, and no one aspect will really hurt, resulting in a build that doesn’t really hurt.

Edit: Oh, and taking battle sigils with strength runes isn’t might stacking. You walk up to most any build and they’ll strip that in an instant. Mesmers can’t really might stack effectively without continual interrupts, and even then it’s quite questionable.

Fay.2357:

This looks like a pretty standard hybrid build.

As with all hybrid builds, the issue is that you can’t actually do everything at once. In this case, both sides of your damage application are very weak.
…
Your damage is spread too thin, and no one aspect will really hurt, resulting in a build that doesn’t really hurt.
…

I’ve seen you say this various places and I’ve always wondered what you base it on. I respect a lot of what you have to say, but I think you are wrong about this, at least based on the numbers, and here is why: Both condi damage and direct damage scale linearly with their respective stat.

What this means is that the difference between 1000 and 1200 condition dmg is the same as 1800-2000 condition damage, the 200 additional condition damage gives you the same gain in both cases. Same for power.

When you say weak condition damage + weak direct damage = weak damage, you are implying there is a nonlinearity here, as in the total damage in a hybrid build is less than the sum of the individual parts.

If you have 1000 condition damage and 1000 power, you are saying that your conditions are weak because you only have 1000 condition damage, and players can ignore them. You say that your direct attacks are weak because you only have 1000 power, and so players can ignore them. So you say they can ignore them both, but this isn’t true based on how damage scales. The DPS from each adds linearly, so together they are not negligible.

If you are basing this on something else, it would be great if you could say what that is. If not I think you need to rethink this claim.

MSFone.3026:

Fay.2357:

This looks like a pretty standard hybrid build.

As with all hybrid builds, the issue is that you can’t actually do everything at once. In this case, both sides of your damage application are very weak.
…
Your damage is spread too thin, and no one aspect will really hurt, resulting in a build that doesn’t really hurt.
…

I’ve seen you say this various places and I’ve always wondered what you base it on. I respect a lot of what you have to say, but I think you are wrong about this, at least based on the numbers, and here is why: Both condi damage and direct damage scale linearly with their respective stat.

What this means is that the difference between 1000 and 1200 condition dmg is the same as 1800-2000 condition damage, the 200 additional condition damage gives you the same gain in both cases. Same for power.

When you say weak condition damage + weak direct damage = weak damage, you are implying there is a nonlinearity here, as in the total damage in a hybrid build is less than the sum of the individual parts.

If you have 1000 condition damage and 1000 power, you are saying that your conditions are weak because you only have 1000 condition damage, and players can ignore them. You say that your direct attacks are weak because you only have 1000 power, and so players can ignore them. So you say they can ignore them both, but this isn’t true based on how damage scales. The DPS from each adds linearly, so together they are not negligible.

If you are basing this on something else, it would be great if you could say what that is. If not I think you need to rethink this claim.

Basically, there’s a couple of aspects that you aren’t considering. The biggest aspect is the case of how that damage gets applied.

In a full condition build, you’re completely based around applying conditions. You have multiple ways to do it, reliable stacking, cover conditions, etc. In this build, you not only have less condition damage, but it has less effective ways to apply conditions (so less damage), less conditions applied (even more less damage), and very minimal access to cover conditions (the potential for complete damage nullification through condition removals).

On the other side, in a power build you’re completely built around applying that power damage. If phantasms, then you’ve got a lot of phantasm boosting traits. If shatter, you’ve got the various shatter traits, and you’ve got the ways to make sure those land. In this build, you’ve got no shatter support, so the only way damage can be applied is through phantasms. However, taking the torch means that you’ve sacrificed 1/2 phantasms for utility/condition damage, so only the duelist deals damage. Additionally, you’ve got no way to protect the phantasm, and nothing boosting its defense, so that it dies very quickly, eliminating the only source of power damage in the build.

So overall, going hybrid isn’t simply a matter of a stat difference. It also causes massive compromises with how that damage is actually applied. Even if you can get reasonable hybrid stats, you simply can’t have a build that is actually efficient and effective at dealing out both condition and power damage. You can be efficient and effective at one or the other, but when you try to put them together into a build you end up with something that’s actually very weak at applying both.

Ansau.7326:

Kind of an hybrid PU version, but without PU trait. It success cause it’s based on easy/powerful mechanics, as clone death traits, scepter torment and phantasm damage. But I think a 2/6/4/2, a 2/6/6 or even Schattenlied’s build would do a better job.
- The lack of PU paired with 3 stealth skills makes it a bit awkward. You already have torch, so why decoy instead of something more useful?
- Investing just 2 in Chaos is pointless, the good things from this line start at master.
- Then, Mender’s Purity paired with Ether Feast is also wasting a really good condi cleansing, why not take MoR+Harmonious Mantras? With this change you’re free to spend 2 points from domination in somewhere else.
- And the lack of Bountiful Interruption… I run that trait with GS/Staff and it’s not a problem for me to reach 15 stacks of might. You could spent more stats to defensive and get more profit from interrupts.

-BTW, that stats comparison is unfair. He will have more might stacks than you thanks to interrupts.

-You don’t have to think within the boundaries. Getting stealth does not really require traiting PU.
-Chaos is needed for debilitating dissipation which makes killing my clones punishing
-I already have another 2 condi cleanse from torch so it is not needed to trait healing otherwise
-I said it can be changed to bountiful interruption if your timing is good. However, I usually play against skilled players against which you have hard time landing good interrupts.
-Stats are stats I think they should be taken into account this way or another. He may have more stacks but that is a big may, depends on timing and leverage he got and skill of other party.

Schattenlied.4873:

This would be a hybrid version of the Focus-build which would be close to your stats. To be honest, I have tried something similar to your build (it was a hint by Nubu from [BNF], he played 30-30-10-0-0), but I haven´t tested it in detail yet (time consuming RL ;P). I hope I can have a deeper look at both builds later.

Ok, I really recommend that you try this build as well. The build you linked seems similar stat-wise but I think sword torch and scepter pistol is not really as convenient as other way around. And I am being modest here with might stacks, with strength runes and battle sigils alone you keep 10 stacks all the time without even thinking about it. But I have to state a minimum that provides certainty.

This looks like a pretty standard hybrid build.

As with all hybrid builds, the issue is that you can’t actually do everything at once. In this case, both sides of your damage application are very weak.

Your condition damage is very low, so the conditions you apply are going to be almost ignorable. You have no good access to sustained burning, and no access to poison. You have limited access to bleeding, and decent torment of course.

Your power/crit is actually pretty high. However, you have no good way to actually turn those stats into damage.

Your damage is spread too thin, and no one aspect will really hurt, resulting in a build that doesn’t really hurt.

- I think both sides are pretty strong. 1k condi damage and 60% duration is nothing to ignore when your duelist simply spams bleed and your scepter clones spam torment or when the duelist, confusing images or blurred frenzy lands 5k crits on a relatively short cooldown.

- I don’t think damage spread is thin it is in fact burst. I usually open with a stun followed by leap and frenzy and duelist or combine it with prestige. Most of the time this means the fight is almost over.

- I have yet to have a problem with any of the classes-builds you mentioned. Of course this is not a large scale combat build. It is for roaming either solo or group, it serves well both ways and also in 1v2s. Also good for running away from groups chasing thanks to stealth.

Furthermore:
This is I think more effective in most cases than a full condi or full power build because it provides you with both angles of damage. You can run into a high toughness build and you would be thankful for the extra condi dmg you got or vice versa.

I say you should give it a try before dismissing it. It is the build that I have enjoyed most so far. Power phant/shatter, pu condi builds all got boring for me.

these builds are very middle ground, i’ve poked at them myself.

the problem with them is that mesmers have to commit to really kick things into gear, yes these builds work with a lot of special foods and other things but if your build can’t stand without food then its probably not a great build etc…

What Pyro gets at is that, while this build might be good at taking down the average run of the mill High Sustain Bunker Warrior, or might not have a ton of trouble with glassy builds, when it comes to the more skilled and meta abusive classes and players, these builds just don’t hold up.

you can look at the numbers all ya want but when a thief shows up with a ton of stealth and gives you only tiny windows to burst, you have 0 burst and will die.

when a bunker guard is holding a point you dont have enough raw damage to kill it before something or someone else shows up to remove you, they will make short work of your conditions and can basically ignore you.

When a Terror Necro gets the drop on you, torch for Condition clears wont be enough.

Mesmers, compaired to several of the other classes, cannot afford to go as a Jack of all Trades. Yes you’ll end up with counters this way but thats balance.

If you really want to go into a competitive scene against skilled players with this build then you’ll find yourself countered by any build that is not also a “hybrid” or rounded build.

yes, its playable, and its a good place to start when learning a Mesmer, but you’ll need to graduate to something else when you really find out what you like doing the best.

Serhend.6382:

- I think both sides are pretty strong. 1k condi damage and 60% duration is nothing to ignore when your duelist simply spams bleed and your scepter clones spam torment or when the duelist, confusing images or blurred frenzy lands 5k crits on a relatively short cooldown.

Scepter clones will stack maybe 2 or 3 torment under the best of circumstances, so that’s not anything to rely on. The duelist could stack bleeds, except that it’s easy to dodge the unload and then kill it in a couple hits. That’s the main issue with it. Confusing images can put a bit of confusion on I guess, but that tickles more than anything.

Serhend.6382:

- I don’t think damage spread is thin it is in fact burst. I usually open with a stun followed by leap and frenzy and duelist or combine it with prestige. Most of the time this means the fight is almost over.

The fight is almost over…unless they dodge the stun, or stunbreak the stun, or pop an invuln, or take really any defensive action whatsoever. While it would be nice if everyone just stood still waiting for the burst, that’s simply not the case.

Serhend.6382:

Furthermore:
This is I think more effective in most cases than a full condi or full power build because it provides you with both angles of damage. You can run into a high toughness build and you would be thankful for the extra condi dmg you got or vice versa.

That’s not really how it works in this game. In theory, yes I suppose. In practice though, you’re facing tanky builds or you’re facing damaging builds. The tanky builds will have both toughness and condition damage, and the damaging builds will have neither. Against this build, it’ll have the defenses to shrug off the power damage that can only be really applied by the iDuelist, and the condition removal to get rid of the incidental conditions you apply.

Serhend.6382:

I say you should give it a try before dismissing it. It is the build that I have enjoyed most so far. Power phant/shatter, pu condi builds all got boring for me.

I’ve tried quite a few hybrid builds. They’re quite effective against glassy builds actually, because glassy builds have neither type of defense to really handle the various types of offense. However, you rarely see glassy builds while roaming, and tanky condition roamers (or something like an s/d thief) simply won’t die to this.

Fay.2357:

Scepter clones will stack maybe 2 or 3 torment under the best of circumstances, so that’s not anything to rely on. The duelist could stack bleeds, except that it’s easy to dodge the unload and then kill it in a couple hits. That’s the main issue with it. Confusing images can put a bit of confusion on I guess, but that tickles more than anything.

You can count on minimum 3 stacks and you can easily up it to 8 with scepter block.

Duelist not only can but does stack bleeds. You can dodge it when there is one duelist, you don’t really get to dodge it when there are 2 duelists shooting you almost always and a sword mesmer leaping and blurred frenzying you combined with stuns.

Fay.2357:

The fight is almost over…unless they dodge the stun, or stunbreak the stun, or pop an invuln, or take really any defensive action whatsoever. While it would be nice if everyone just stood still waiting for the burst, that’s simply not the case.

Fight is almost over. You have to time it well. When does a burst occur at all if you don’t time it well. Never. This goes for all combos that lead to a burst. Also against a lb ranger you can go invul, evade, blind etc. That does not render it a useless burst overall, it makes you a good evader.

Fay.2357:

That’s not really how it works in this game. In theory, yes I suppose. In practice though, you’re facing tanky builds or you’re facing damaging builds. The tanky builds will have both toughness and condition damage, and the damaging builds will have neither. Against this build, it’ll have the defenses to shrug off the power damage that can only be really applied by the iDuelist, and the condition removal to get rid of the incidental conditions you apply.

You see a lot of pvt builds, it helps when you do damage on both vitality and toughness sides instead of one. If you are speaking about 1v1 against such a build, you can still take the kill rather conveniently with stun and bursting. I see no point in going to the extremes of either direct damage or condition damage just because you might run into someone with a too resilient build. That renders your overall gameplay less convenient and that just because you may run into builds like that.

Fay.2357:

I’ve tried quite a few hybrid builds. They’re quite effective against glassy builds actually, because glassy builds have neither type of defense to really handle the various types of offense. However, you rarely see glassy builds while roaming, and tanky condition roamers (or something like an s/d thief) simply won’t die to this.

Tanky condition roamers die to this build. Because with all the condition removal their damage is none to you. But even if they have high toughness they lose to your conditions over time. I think you should really give it a try before saying “hybrid is hybrid”.

Serhend.6382:

You can count on minimum 3 stacks and you can easily up it to 8 with scepter block.

Yeah, you can absolutely add 5 with the scepter block. That is a good source of conditions, but the issue is that you have no cover. One condition removal and it’s all gone.

Serhend.6382:

You see a lot of pvt builds, it helps when you do damage on both vitality and toughness sides instead of one. If you are speaking about 1v1 against such a build, you can still take the kill rather conveniently with stun and bursting. I see no point in going to the extremes of either direct damage or condition damage just because you might run into someone with a too resilient build. That renders your overall gameplay less convenient and that just because you may run into builds like that.

You don’t see many Pvt builds roaming, you mainly see rabid/carrion/other tanky mix condition roamers.

Serhend.6382:

Tanky condition roamers die to this build. Because with all the condition removal their damage is none to you. But even if they have high toughness they lose to your conditions over time. I think you should really give it a try before saying “hybrid is hybrid”.

Yeah…I don’t believe this. Their damage is none to you? You can remove 2 conditions every 20 seconds. That means a single torment block from a PUC mesmer will almost kill you in one go. Your condition removal is nowhere near adequate to deal with condition roamers.

I can see this taking a few roamers by surprise. I would personally find this build much more threatening if you had increased movement speed runes, a sigil of doom on one weapon set, swapped Duellist’s Discipline for Harmonious Mantras and swapped Ether Feast for Mantra of Recovery.

If you want to make this build more versatile, you need some boon stripping in there somewhere. By taking Harmonious Mantras and Mantra of Recovery you will have a decent source of instant on-demand cleanse, which means you can get rid of Cleansing Conflagration and take Shattered Concentration instead. Alternatively, just swap Signet of Domination for Arcane Thievery

Fay.2357:

Yeah, you can absolutely add 5 with the scepter block. That is a good source of conditions, but the issue is that you have no cover. One condition removal and it’s all gone.

It is not over, you have burn, blindness, bleed, weakness etc. as well. I have seen 8 stacks easily.

Fay.2357:

You don’t see many Pvt builds roaming, you mainly see rabid/carrion/other tanky mix condition roamers.

Makes it even better for me as rabid and carrion are easier.

Fay.2357:

Yeah…I don’t believe this. Their damage is none to you? You can remove 2 conditions every 20 seconds. That means a single torment block from a PUC mesmer will almost kill you in one go. Your condition removal is nowhere near adequate to deal with condition roamers.

I can remove 1×2 conditions every 24 seconds with torch
I can remove 2 conditions every 20 seconds with heal

It is none to me. Take Hoelbrak, even better. Almost zero’ed. If someone fails to evade and endure condis with this setup, there is no hope for that person anymore imo.

So what does that make, it is a lot of condi removal. Not to count 2 stun breakers and 3 stealth skills.

Simonoly.4352:

I would personally find this build much more threatening if you had increased movement speed runes, a sigil of doom on one weapon set, swapped Duellist’s Discipline for Harmonious Mantras and swapped Ether Feast for Mantra of Recovery.

I think sigil of doom can easily be placed on one weapon since there is a slot.

No need for recovery of mantra or harmonious mantras because there is already condi removal on torch and heal both. It is sufficient.

Swiftness would be welcome and help in chasing some runners but I don’t think I can add it in without breaking something vital.

Simonoly.4352:

If you want to make this build more versatile, you need some boon stripping in there somewhere. By taking Harmonious Mantras and Mantra of Recovery you will have a decent source of instant on-demand cleanse, which means you can get rid of Cleansing Conflagration and take Shattered Concentration instead. Alternatively, just swap Signet of Domination for Arcane Thievery

In that case I would take bountiful interruption instead of shattered concentration. I can, like you say, also take arcane thievery for some minimal condi cleanse and boon stripping, give up cleansing conflagaration and again go for bountiful interruption or something else. As I say, I think it is a versatile build that can be changed on the go. However, I think arcane thievery would not really suffice as much as torch cleansing does due to the fact that it can be evaded.

Serhend.6382:

-You don’t have to think within the boundaries. Getting stealth does not really require traiting PU.
-Chaos is needed for debilitating dissipation which makes killing my clones punishing
-I already have another 2 condi cleanse from torch so it is not needed to trait healing otherwise
-I said it can be changed to bountiful interruption if your timing is good. However, I usually play against skilled players against which you have hard time landing good interrupts.
-Stats are stats I think they should be taken into account this way or another. He may have more stacks but that is a big may, depends on timing and leverage he got and skill of other party.

You didn’t understand me. I didn’t say what you get is bad, but you spend a lot of sources in an inefficient way.
- About PU, I didn’t say get PU, just get rid of Decoy and take anything better. You already have good access to stealth, and that utility is just making you dependent to stealth, and occupying an utility slot.
- About Chaos, I didn’t say choosing just DD is bad, but you waste trait points into other lines that could go there and give you way more.
- Condi cleansing, again, you need 4 trait points and 2 traits to have an average condi cleansing. I nearly get the same as you by using only an utility, MoC.

Again, if it works is cause it’s based on easy/powerful mechanics, as clone death traits, scepter spam, stealth… But you have no way to deal with condi bursts, your defensive stats are not spectacular (a backstab can easily hit you for 7k), your burst is really low, and i don’t know why people bring slowest builds for roaming, where speed is the most important thing to roam properly (roaming is not about fighting). Any PU build and builds from other professions are reasonably better than this.

Ansau.7326:

You didn’t understand me. I didn’t say what you get is bad, but you spend a lot of sources in an inefficient way.
-just get rid of Decoy and take anything better. You already have good access to stealth, and that utility is just making you dependent to stealth, and occupying an utility slot.

Decoy is also a stun-breaker. I think decoy is overall a very significant skill to take.

- About Chaos, I didn’t say choosing just DD is bad, but you waste trait points into other lines that could go there and give you way more.

I don’t think you think of the build as a whole. When you simply compare DD with some other trait it may seem awkward to take it but it completes the picture.

Ansau.7326:

- Condi cleansing, again, you need 4 trait points and 2 traits to have an average condi cleansing. I nearly get the same as you by using only an utility, MoC.

I think MoC is not really good unless it is the only way to cleanse. I can add that when fighting an extreme condi burster and will probably be tons safer than you are.

Ansau.7326:

Again, if it works is cause it’s based on easy/powerful mechanics, as clone death traits, scepter spam, stealth… But you have no way to deal with condi bursts, your defensive stats are not spectacular (a backstab can easily hit you for 7k), your burst is really low,

If you continue on counting such mechanics we will end up counting everything other than auto-attack. That is simply nonsense. Mesmer is in its entirety a class based on these mechanics. Otherwise we could all spam AA like rangers etc.

I deal with condi bursts very well, have yet to have a single issue with a condi class.

My burst can get as high as 13-14k when the right combo is initiated at the right time including the condis. When I say blurred frenzy, duelist and scepter #3 crits for 5k+ and you think burst is really low, I am starting to doubt your analytical approach.

Ansau.7326:

and i don’t know why people bring slowest builds for roaming, where speed is the most important thing to roam properly (roaming is not about fighting).

As I have already stated -but you probbly haven’t read it-, I grab focus while roaming until I get to a fight situation. I don’t need any more swiftness since mesmer is all about being slippery and tricky. I think that is also what devs are thinking since they are not giving us any inherent swiftness capabilities.

Ansau.7326:

Any PU build and builds from other professions are reasonably better than this.

They are not, I played many variations of PU builds. Not as much fun, not as much versatile, same burst for only power pu builds but they lack condi and it comes in handy.

For a better understanding I advise you to give a shot and actually play the build. I have tried so far:
various lockdown builds – 1 month -
shatten’s build with gs and without after I duelled him – 2 weeks -
shatter power builds – 6 months -
shatter condi builds -2 weeks -
pu shatter build – 1 week-
pu power build – 3 weeks -
pu condi build – 6 months -
condi-focused similar versions of this build – 1 month -
phant builds – 3 months -

Although I could choose a specific different build in a 1v1 duel before which I know what my opponent is playing, this so far served me as the most convenient overall build covering many situations.

Just give you an idea in turns of necessary condition cleanse, since P/D thief is definitely not a minority in WvW roaming. There’s couple of variation from this build (eg. 2/0/6/0/6) but I’m just grabbing one randomly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfB0yXm35s8

As you can see P/D thieves can easily reapply cleansed bleed within 4 seconds, only limited by revealed time (particularly against mesmers since CnD on illusion is easy). Other conditions are also only limited by initiation, which P/D doesn’t have high demands of. So having condition removal on torch (two 24s) may not be sufficient, even though you can remove 3 conditions in total. Mender’s purity on ether feast is quite risky due to poison and covering conditions, 33% drop in healing may seal the coffin for you unless you have multiple healings like mantra of healing.

Easy way to get around this? You can use MoC as above suggested or harmonious mantra + mantra of healing for 6 condition removals + 7500 healings per 15s-ish.

I like your hybrid build btw, pretty interesting set up. I think the main thing that allows condition to shine is the food buff, which make illusionary counter quite deadly if left unattended. Although I’m curious as to how you would cover/protect that killer move?

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

As you can see P/D thieves can easily reapply cleansed bleed within 4 seconds, only limited by revealed time (particularly against mesmers since CnD on illusion is easy). Other conditions are also only limited by initiation, which P/D doesn’t have high demands of. So having condition removal on torch (two 24s) may not be sufficient, even though you can remove 3 conditions in total. Mender’s purity on ether feast is quite risky due to poison and covering conditions, 33% drop in healing may seal the coffin for you unless you have multiple healings like mantra of healing.

I actually have 4 removal in 3 times. And 3 stealths, not to mention, 2 stuns, blurred frenzy evade, scepter block etc.

Yes, such a counter-build is a compromise and many thieves can choose to go that way but most of them will do so without any success. Most of the thieves I run into fail miserably regardless of the build. Therefore, I would not craft a specific counter build against a minority when majority can be countered otherwise conveniently. In a specific 1v1 however, against a skilled condi burst thief I would get arcane thievery or mantra heal or MoC. Even a well timed arcane thievery and burst gets decent thieves down in a matter of 1-2 minutes.

oh btw I mean 3 condi removals in total for torch, because iMage bolt that hits you also cleanse one condition. So one on cast and one on hit.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

oh btw I mean 3 condi removals in total for torch, because iMage bolt that hits you also cleanse one condition. So one on cast and one on hit.

Description reads as 1 condition removed. I am not sure if it applies to the bounce-back. But if it does, that is even better. I will try it to see if it removes.

This is the first thread I’ve seen about a build where the OP gets into non stop arguments with everyone who posts comments he doesn’t like.

Here’s a protip: Post some videos of you schooling people and beating the builds they are saying you can’t beat. Everyone will shut up /thread you win. Otherwise it’s all talk and nobody will believe anything you say. You are the one who posted the build, so it’s up to you to prove your claims about it. Or just keep arguing on the forum, but nobody is going to be convinced without footage.

Serhend.6382:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

oh btw I mean 3 condi removals in total for torch, because iMage bolt that hits you also cleanse one condition. So one on cast and one on hit.

Description reads as 1 condition removed. I am not sure if it applies to the bounce-back. But if it does, that is even better. I will try it to see if it removes.

It does work, but given the nature of the iMage, it’s highly unreliable.

MSFone.3026:

This is the first thread I’ve seen about a build where the OP gets into non stop arguments with everyone who posts comments he doesn’t like.

Here’s a protip: Post some videos of you schooling people and beating the builds they are saying you can’t beat. Everyone will shut up /thread you win. Otherwise it’s all talk and nobody will believe anything you say. You are the one who posted the build, so it’s up to you to prove your claims about it. Or just keep arguing on the forum, but nobody is going to be convinced without footage.

I have already stated that videos are upcoming. If some people are impatient though, I think they should at least give it a shot before criticising from the surface or from a distant angle. I see on some occasions people haven’t actually read it thoroughly and give wrong feedback. Thanks for your comment though.