Guild Wars 2

So today I went with a friend to practise on PU condi mesmers in PvP as a thief. After a little getting into thief and used to it the fights were going on for 8mins with an end only in sight if I went aggressive but usually would kill me because I was out of CDs.

This was my own fault as I coulda just moved away, reset and come back and that’s not what this is about.

I hit upon the idea of if you used shadowshots unblockable properties with basilisk venom you should be able to blind, interrupt or at least stun the Mesmer using Illusionary Counter. However this didn’t happen. They blocked the shot and then the words missed came up for the counter but 5stacks of torment were still applied.

Can anyone confirm if this is behaving correctly or am I missing something?

115 views and no-one has any info on illusionary counter blocking unblockables and essentially applying its effects even though blind?

I think technically only the blind/teleport part is unblockable. The damage is blockable.

So like if you basilisk venom then blind something but the blind skill does no damage, it doesn’t proc basi.

This means that counter doesn’t prokittenil after you hit him with the blockable portion. The miss vs conditions happening, I would chalk up to a shatter wiffing on the blind.

apharma.3741:

So today I went with a friend to practise on PU condi mesmers in PvP as a thief. After a little getting into thief and used to it the fights were going on for 8mins with an end only in sight if I went aggressive but usually would kill me because I was out of CDs.

This was my own fault as I coulda just moved away, reset and come back and that’s not what this is about.

I hit upon the idea of if you used shadowshots unblockable properties with basilisk venom you should be able to blind, interrupt or at least stun the Mesmer using Illusionary Counter. However this didn’t happen. They blocked the shot and then the words missed came up for the counter but 5stacks of torment were still applied.

Can anyone confirm if this is behaving correctly or am I missing something?

Mesmer blocks operate as two actions, a block and a counter. You blinded the damage from the block, not the counter.

Shadowshot operates as two separate actions. Only the projectile is unblockable.

Notice the grammar of the skills.

“Fire a blinding shot at your foe, then shadowstep to them for a dagger strike.”

“Block the next attack. Counter by applying Torment and creating a clone that casts Ether Bolt.”

1. You are firing an unblockable projectile that will hit them and apply blind.
2. At the point it is hitting them, you will shadowstep to them and attempt to perform a damaging action with your dagger.
3. The damaging action of the dagger strike will proc the block. Therefore doing no damage.
4. The mesmer will attempt to inflict the 672 base damage that is associated with the block itself.
5. They will not inflict the damage associated with proccing the block because they are blinded.
6. The word miss will appear. Because the thief has not taken the damage associated with the block.
7. The block has still procced and the mesmer will perform the counter attack.
8. The counter will apply 5 stacks of torment to the thief, as the blind on the mesmer was consumed when it attempted to damage with the block.

Unless the dagger portion of shadowshot is bugged, this is working correctly.

Thanks for that Daniel. I guess shadow shot is not a viable option for countering that skill and just /laugh will have to do.

I’ll have to test this out personally Kent, but that seems like a really weird implementation.

Generally speaking, when an attack applies both damage and a condition, that condition is linked directly to the attack itself, which means blinding the attack avoids the condition. What you’re implying is that the application of the torment itself and the damage that is associated with it are two separate entities, and I don’t think I’ve seen that anywhere else in the game.

Just to be clear: When you block with illusionary counter, you perform a counterattack that both deals damage and applies torment at the same time. Visually speaking, the damage and torment do not occur at separate times.

Fay.2357:

I’ll have to test this out personally Kent, but that seems like a really weird implementation.

Generally speaking, when an attack applies both damage and a condition, that condition is linked directly to the attack itself, which means blinding the attack avoids the condition. What you’re implying is that the application of the torment itself and the damage that is associated with it are two separate entities, and I don’t think I’ve seen that anywhere else in the game.

Just to be clear: When you block with illusionary counter, you perform a counterattack that both deals damage and applies torment at the same time. Visually speaking, the damage and torment do not occur at separate times.

It is weird, but it is the reason why one can dodge the counter.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Fay.2357:

I’ll have to test this out personally Kent, but that seems like a really weird implementation.

Generally speaking, when an attack applies both damage and a condition, that condition is linked directly to the attack itself, which means blinding the attack avoids the condition. What you’re implying is that the application of the torment itself and the damage that is associated with it are two separate entities, and I don’t think I’ve seen that anywhere else in the game.

Just to be clear: When you block with illusionary counter, you perform a counterattack that both deals damage and applies torment at the same time. Visually speaking, the damage and torment do not occur at separate times.

It is weird, but it is the reason why one can dodge the counter.

No, I think you misunderstand what it’s doing.

When you get hit, there’s a pause and then the counter hits. The ‘counter’ contains both damage and torment, at the same time. That’s why you can dodge the counter.

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Fay.2357:

I’ll have to test this out personally Kent, but that seems like a really weird implementation.

Generally speaking, when an attack applies both damage and a condition, that condition is linked directly to the attack itself, which means blinding the attack avoids the condition. What you’re implying is that the application of the torment itself and the damage that is associated with it are two separate entities, and I don’t think I’ve seen that anywhere else in the game.

Just to be clear: When you block with illusionary counter, you perform a counterattack that both deals damage and applies torment at the same time. Visually speaking, the damage and torment do not occur at separate times.

It is weird, but it is the reason why one can dodge the counter.

No, I think you misunderstand what it’s doing.

When you get hit, there’s a pause and then the counter hits. The ‘counter’ contains both damage and torment, at the same time. That’s why you can dodge the counter.

The issue for me is the only way to explain the miss is that a shatter was spammed and the aoe blind happened just as this other instant skill was occuring. But those shatters have tells and I think OP would report their occurrence.

Not only that, if a random shatter had cleared the blind, then where did the miss come from? We can assume then that the miss was aoe blind from the shatter, which caused the thief to miss the dagger portion of the skill. But shadowshot is an instanteous skill?

This seems far too lucky.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Fay.2357:

I’ll have to test this out personally Kent, but that seems like a really weird implementation.

Generally speaking, when an attack applies both damage and a condition, that condition is linked directly to the attack itself, which means blinding the attack avoids the condition. What you’re implying is that the application of the torment itself and the damage that is associated with it are two separate entities, and I don’t think I’ve seen that anywhere else in the game.

Just to be clear: When you block with illusionary counter, you perform a counterattack that both deals damage and applies torment at the same time. Visually speaking, the damage and torment do not occur at separate times.

It is weird, but it is the reason why one can dodge the counter.

No, I think you misunderstand what it’s doing.

When you get hit, there’s a pause and then the counter hits. The ‘counter’ contains both damage and torment, at the same time. That’s why you can dodge the counter.

The issue for me is the only way to explain the miss is that a shatter was spammed and the aoe blind happened just as this other instant skill was occuring. But those shatters have tells and I think OP would report their occurrence.

Not only that, if a random shatter had cleared the blind, then where did the miss come from? We can assume then that the miss was aoe blind from the shatter, which caused the thief to miss the dagger portion of the skill. But shadowshot is an instanteous skill?

This seems far too lucky.

I haven’t tested it myself, so I can’t say for sure yet. What I do know is that shadow shot is not instantaneous. What thieves can do is use shadow shot for the teleport while in stealth, but then mash 1 to interrupt the dagger portion of the skill and land a backstab instead.

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Fay.2357:

I’ll have to test this out personally Kent, but that seems like a really weird implementation.

Generally speaking, when an attack applies both damage and a condition, that condition is linked directly to the attack itself, which means blinding the attack avoids the condition. What you’re implying is that the application of the torment itself and the damage that is associated with it are two separate entities, and I don’t think I’ve seen that anywhere else in the game.

Just to be clear: When you block with illusionary counter, you perform a counterattack that both deals damage and applies torment at the same time. Visually speaking, the damage and torment do not occur at separate times.

It is weird, but it is the reason why one can dodge the counter.

No, I think you misunderstand what it’s doing.

When you get hit, there’s a pause and then the counter hits. The ‘counter’ contains both damage and torment, at the same time. That’s why you can dodge the counter.

The issue for me is the only way to explain the miss is that a shatter was spammed and the aoe blind happened just as this other instant skill was occuring. But those shatters have tells and I think OP would report their occurrence.

Not only that, if a random shatter had cleared the blind, then where did the miss come from? We can assume then that the miss was aoe blind from the shatter, which caused the thief to miss the dagger portion of the skill. But shadowshot is an instanteous skill?

This seems far too lucky.

I haven’t tested it myself, so I can’t say for sure yet. What I do know is that shadow shot is not instantaneous. What thieves can do is use shadow shot for the teleport while in stealth, but then mash 1 to interrupt the dagger portion of the skill and land a backstab instead.

My mistake I don’t mean instantaneous in the game mechanic sense. I mean that it happens so quickly only the thief has time to react. If you generally can interrupt skills with a cast time of 1/4 of a second, how is the mes landing the shatter. The event should be over before the enemy reacts.

Just to be clear there was no random shatter. I was practising with a friend what worked and didn’t work after half an hour of fighting.

I used basi venom, asked him to use illusionary counter, then I used shadow shot. I blinded him, got the block message, he then countered, it said miss, then I had 5 stacks of torment. He did nothing else.

The torment application is surprising, but I can attest Illusionnary Counter does not block unblockable attack. Not without an external factor I never encountered at least.

This is why we need public skill scripts. lol