Guild Wars 2

Title says it all: for a GM trait, I have 10s cooldown on a blockable 3s blind. And the 4s single stack of confusion which is barely worth mentioning. I understand that this is probably intended to reduce its use for bunkering in sPvP (sw/sh mes has 1 block and 1 evade skill built-in), but 10s? Too much. That would be fine for a minor trait, but this is in no way competitive with Malicious Sorcery or Master of Fragmentation.

Reduce it to 5s and we’re talking. It’s not like once I switched to that set I’d be able to land a block, evade, another block, and 2 dodges with a 5 second trait cooldown before switching to my other weapon anyways. But I might be able to land 2-3 ineptitudes and that would make the trait worth it. I don’t think that would be OP. As of right now the necessary July 28, 2015 nerf (which made sense, why was it previously unblockable/unevadable) without a compensatory buff to CD made this uncompetitive. I think it should also trigger on misses, that fits the theme of Ineptitude even more than trigger on block/evade.

To put this in context: mesmer is best used in a 1v1 or 2v1 situation. This is not an elementalist or a Guardian, mesmer is the top dueling class. The 10s CD per-target sounds good, but only being able to blind each person once every 10s is essentially a 10s CD in sPvP, as you should only be fighting 2 people maximum at any given time. More people than that and the trait isn’t the problem. But effectively this is far more limiting atm, especially considering that I can take advantage of MoF’s shatter boost twice via Continuum Split, whereas that is not the case with Ineptitude. This is a cool trait and it deserves a nice buff.

+1

…and stuff…

…it’s way overnerfed and entirely useless in it’s current form.

Sadly, it’s far from alone in that regard.

I think it is a pretty competitive trait.
Its CD is in line with other blind GM trait from other classes(druid’s healing one and ele’s burning one).
Confusion on blind is also a nice offensive power buff. It has good synergy with Blinding Dissipation.

Exciton.8942:

Confusion on blind is also a nice offensive power buff. It has good synergy with Blinding Dissipation.

This is a very important aspect of the trait which makes it really good and which most people don’t typically mention.

There is no CD on the confusion on blind, you literally add another stack with of confusion with every shatter if running blinding dissipation. Sure most people probably know about this excellent trait synergy but I feel the need to make it clear in this case.

Sure you have to trait dueling to get this, as our other blind sources are spread randomly throughout our weapons and utilities and that I see as a weakness. If we had more focused access to blind like reaper does to chill (chill > bleed via deathly chill), could make for a solid all around trait.

But for sure, the trait is not garbage as-is.

Exciton.8942:

I think it is a pretty competitive trait.
Its CD is in line with other blind GM trait from other classes(druid’s healing one and ele’s burning one).
Confusion on blind is also a nice offensive power buff. It has good synergy with Blinding Dissipation.

Idk about that. Meta Druid has access to more blind in general via Smokescale F2 and Celestial Avatar 2 (which can be spammed in a group fight), and actually has 2 traits that cause blindness. Go for the Eyes is silly on Smokescale but very useful on Bristleback. Overall these classes are not terribly comparable in this regard. Ele’s blind on burn is decent with an 8s CD, and actually more useful than Ineptitude, as Ele has high access to burn in Fire attunement. In fact an Ele running Fire is defs condi and therefore is quite possibly also using Signet of Fire, so overall has quite a bit of access to burning. But overall yes there are some other comparisons to be made, in terms of the trait Ele has it better than Mes while Ranger has it worse.

That being said, Ele needs this trait and the lower CD; lowest health pool and lowest armor, notwithstanding high Protection uptime (which can always be stripped). And Fire makes Ele even more squishy than usual, hence the defensive trait for compensation.

Druid, however, has equal health to Mesmer, higher armor, amazing self-healing, high condi-cleanse, a pet that’s like an OP phantasm with a special attack that can be insta-switched if it dies, etc. etc. Basically Ranger has much better 1v1 and 1v2 survivability on its inherent profession mechanics, thus it doesn’t need weird stuff like a Blind on a GM trait. And like a Mesmer the pet attacks even when the Druid is on the defensive, that’s actually where a lot of the Druid’s damage comes from.

Condi and power mes are super fragile and could use the boost. I don’t think 5s cooldown is insane, that’s not spammable like Druid’s CA 2 skill. And it’s definitely not “competitive” in the sense that people use it in a competitive context. Feel free to prove me wrong, I’d be interested to find a decent streamer who uses it. Doesn’t have to be Helseth, just someone who’s made it to Legendary.

Your last comment about confusion is reasonable, but even on condi mes I wouldn’t take it over Malicious Sorcery if using a Scepter or Master of Fragmentation if not. A single 4s stack of confusion will not proc very much, make it 3 stacks or lower the CD and then you’ll end up with some decent damage.

My main gripe about Ineptitude is that I can’t use it while also using Scepter. At least not without losing my scepter trait.

Scepter is the condition damage weapon and comes with a low-cooldown block which leaves you a bit vulnerable post-block. The fact that I can’t use scepter along with the trait which adds a damage condition to my blocks while also giving me a bit of extra defense after the block is sad. They seem meant for each other.

Electro.4173:

My main gripe about Ineptitude is that I can’t use it while also using Scepter. At least not without losing my scepter trait.

Scepter is the condition damage weapon and comes with a low-cooldown block which leaves you a bit vulnerable post-block. The fact that I can’t use scepter along with the trait which adds a damage condition to my blocks while also giving me a bit of extra defense after the block is sad. They seem meant for each other.

But, if they could do this consistently, this would be the smart way of designing trait choices. Actual choices. You’d love to have all 3, but you got to pick 1.

Not like now where you first decide what type of character you want to play, and then just look up the traits because there’s basically only one sensible choice at each stop anyhow.

Carighan.6758:

But, if they could do this consistently, this would be the smart way of designing trait choices. Actual choices. You’d love to have all 3, but you got to pick 1.

Not like now where you first decide what type of character you want to play, and then just look up the traits because there’s basically only one sensible choice at each stop anyhow.

Personally I feel like very little mesmer traitline fits that criteria. You can argue that in Illusions but people only really take it for MtD (your only one sensible choice in that line) and to a degree PoM. To me all 3 Illusions GM traits are mediocore when compared to Chaos, which has 3 actual build defining traits.

• Dueling is probably the second best example: having DE as clone generation in multiple bursts, mantra instaburst, and mistrust for good interrupt options.
• Domination, while imagined burden is very bad, has mental anguish compete with power block at decent level.
• Inspiration’s II has huge PvE implications as well as MD for decent phantasm generation, glamour trait falls into the sad cousin category as well though.

As oppose to Illusions…
Ineptitude – has to pair with dueling to have constant application, or else a GM trait that proc 1 confusion every 10s.
MoF – only thing worth notice is AoE diversion, rest is hardly noticeable or surpass by others.
MS – only has noticeable effect on 2 skills, and one of them is slow projectile autoattack.

Personally I feel like all 3 need improvements, something like
Ineptitude – add 33% proc 2s confusion on crit hit, no ICD. This won’t affect current meta mes since carrion has 4% crit chance, but promote hybrid and allow glass condi build (give good burst).
MoF – increase crit chance of MW to 20% (or just make MW blast finisher around mesmer like I mentioned in the past); CoF caused chilled since nobody notice cripple; diversion and distortion stays the same.
MS – changes effect to increase torment damage by 50% when wielding scepter like we were shown in trait rework sneak peak. This promote scepter use, actually synergise with other condi traits in same traitline, and provide decent sustain damage as oppose to my proposed ineptitude.

Yeah my point exactly. It could be a well-done, but it isn’t.

Of course, then GW2’s unnecessary plethora of half-built and -finished systems comes into play, because we also pick and 3 out of 6 trait lines, have a selection of skills we pick from, and a ton of stat combinations, runes and sigils.

Combined, millions of possible choices.

But realistically, I’d love for at least traits to be actually finished and provide a meaningful choice at each stop. Even if it’d mean, say, having only one choice of 3 in each traitline, focusing on 3 important aspects per concept and making you pick between them. Anything, really.

Carighan.6758:

Electro.4173:

My main gripe about Ineptitude is that I can’t use it while also using Scepter. At least not without losing my scepter trait.

Scepter is the condition damage weapon and comes with a low-cooldown block which leaves you a bit vulnerable post-block. The fact that I can’t use scepter along with the trait which adds a damage condition to my blocks while also giving me a bit of extra defense after the block is sad. They seem meant for each other.

But, if they could do this consistently, this would be the smart way of designing trait choices. Actual choices. You’d love to have all 3, but you got to pick 1.

Not like now where you first decide what type of character you want to play, and then just look up the traits because there’s basically only one sensible choice at each stop anyhow.

I agree with the general feeling that more meaningful choices for traits would be nice.

However, I don’t think Ineptitude vs Malicious Sorcery is a good example of such a choice. Because Malicious Sorcery is basically mandatory when using Scepter and useless otherwise. So the “choice” really isn’t a choice at all. If you’re using Scepter you need MS. I guess you COULD choose not to use it, but you’re hurting your overall effectiveness and not gaining enough in return if you do.

Instead, what having them in the same slot means is “Well, here’s a weapon that synergizes nicely with Ineptitude but I can’t use it alongside the trait. That sucks. Oh well.”

I am using ineptitude now bbecause i am leveling my mesmer nd havent got to malicious sorcery yet. The problem with ineptitude is not neccesarily the ICD on blind but that you only apply one stack of confusion on a 10s ICD. halve the ICd and add a stack and this would be a good GM Trait.

Yes ineptitude is a bad trait but the issue is that meta condi mesmer is already top tier as it is in arena pvp using master of fragmentation. Giving mesmers a stronger grandmaster condi trait would only overpower an already overpowered build.

Electro.4173:

However, I don’t think Ineptitude vs Malicious Sorcery is a good example of such a choice. Because Malicious Sorcery is basically mandatory when using Scepter and useless otherwise.

Oh, agree. Sorry, I worded my post badly. I like the part where for a scepter user, you’d essentially want both.

This “I want both, cannot have, pick one” is the design goal, but it’s not consistently applied, as you said, it’s not even stable in that choice because one is a scepter only talent.

Though while walking to the metro this morning I figured the best way to fix these trait choices – IMO – is to flat out remove them. We have genuinely too many character loadout/setup choices right now, and trait picks are an easy target for something which could be used for class balance if they didn’t exist and power condensed into picking 3 out of 6 possible traitlines. Or just called “traits” then.

So you can sort of pick the 3 focus areas of your character, but what each entails is set up by the devs, allowing more complex balancing changes than the rigid “3 minor + 3 picks of 3 each” setups we have now.

Carighan.6758:

Electro.4173:

However, I don’t think Ineptitude vs Malicious Sorcery is a good example of such a choice. Because Malicious Sorcery is basically mandatory when using Scepter and useless otherwise.

Oh, agree. Sorry, I worded my post badly. I like the part where for a scepter user, you’d essentially want both.

This “I want both, cannot have, pick one” is the design goal, but it’s not consistently applied, as you said, it’s not even stable in that choice because one is a scepter only talent.

Though while walking to the metro this morning I figured the best way to fix these trait choices – IMO – is to flat out remove them. We have genuinely too many character loadout/setup choices right now, and trait picks are an easy target for something which could be used for class balance if they didn’t exist and power condensed into picking 3 out of 6 possible traitlines. Or just called “traits” then.

So you can sort of pick the 3 focus areas of your character, but what each entails is set up by the devs, allowing more complex balancing changes than the rigid “3 minor + 3 picks of 3 each” setups we have now.

This is not the best way to fix it. It kills diversity. I realize that some traits look lack luster but in a game with 3 main modes and a bunch of further niches within each node, only being able to pick 3 trait lines with no further diversity would be dull to say the least.
———————————————————-
To the general assessment of the trait, I get that ineptitude is “weak” but that’s not because of the trait in and of itself. We used to have glamours that blind. That was AOE confusion. Chaos armor used to blind too which would turn into more confusion with this trait. Dueling is out of the meta but it still blinds on shatter which does synergize with this trait.

If there ever is a future elite spec that grants similar levels of sustain of inspiration, condi builds could go dueling/illusions/new elite spec as a “blind spam” confusion build. If the future leaked elite spec that has “blurr” has a trait that “blinds on blurr” ineptitude is fine.

If well of precog was changed to blind per pulse it would mesh with mesmer theme better and ineptitude.

If a new elite spec ever gives us a smoke field that pulses blinds that’s aoe damage. Furthermore, wardens and duelists shooting through those smoke fields will proc a ton of blind and therefore confusion too.

Also if it was to be changed to work with a weapon trait, I would prefer it to be changed for the torch: Every time you blind an enemy, reduce torch CD by 0.5 seconds. Torch skills remove conditions. 0.5 seconds might not seem like a lot but aoe blind could reduce it by 2.5 seconds per blind. Bring ineptitude to further reduce CD while synergizing with a weapon that aoe blinds (torch 4) to promote more active play instead of stealth spam. Scepter 2 does blind as well but it’s lackluster compared to the counter.

At the end of the day, it is a trait that negates 1 enemy attack every 10 seconds on top of the damage it does. It’s not meta but that doesn’t make it so terrible that it should be deleted.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Carighan.6758:

Electro.4173:

However, I don’t think Ineptitude vs Malicious Sorcery is a good example of such a choice. Because Malicious Sorcery is basically mandatory when using Scepter and useless otherwise.

Oh, agree. Sorry, I worded my post badly. I like the part where for a scepter user, you’d essentially want both.

This “I want both, cannot have, pick one” is the design goal, but it’s not consistently applied, as you said, it’s not even stable in that choice because one is a scepter only talent.

Though while walking to the metro this morning I figured the best way to fix these trait choices – IMO – is to flat out remove them. We have genuinely too many character loadout/setup choices right now, and trait picks are an easy target for something which could be used for class balance if they didn’t exist and power condensed into picking 3 out of 6 possible traitlines. Or just called “traits” then.

So you can sort of pick the 3 focus areas of your character, but what each entails is set up by the devs, allowing more complex balancing changes than the rigid “3 minor + 3 picks of 3 each” setups we have now.

This is not the best way to fix it. It kills diversity. I realize that some traits look lack luster but in a game with 3 main modes and a bunch of further niches within each node, only being able to pick 3 trait lines with no further diversity would be dull to say the least.
———————————————————-
To the general assessment of the trait, I get that ineptitude is “weak” but that’s not because of the trait in and of itself. We used to have glamours that blind. That was AOE confusion. Chaos armor used to blind too which would turn into more confusion with this trait. Dueling is out of the meta but it still blinds on shatter which does synergize with this trait.

If there ever is a future elite spec that grants similar levels of sustain of inspiration, condi builds could go dueling/illusions/new elite spec as a “blind spam” confusion build. If the future leaked elite spec that has “blurr” has a trait that “blinds on blurr” ineptitude is fine.

If well of precog was changed to blind per pulse it would mesh with mesmer theme better and ineptitude.

If a new elite spec ever gives us a smoke field that pulses blinds that’s aoe damage. Furthermore, wardens and duelists shooting through those smoke fields will proc a ton of blind and therefore confusion too.

Also if it was to be changed to work with a weapon trait, I would prefer it to be changed for the torch: Every time you blind an enemy, reduce torch CD by 0.5 seconds. Torch skills remove conditions. 0.5 seconds might not seem like a lot but aoe blind could reduce it by 2.5 seconds per blind. Bring ineptitude to further reduce CD while synergizing with a weapon that aoe blinds (torch 4) to promote more active play instead of stealth spam. Scepter 2 does blind as well but it’s lackluster compared to the counter.

At the end of the day, it is a trait that negates 1 enemy attack every 10 seconds on top of the damage it does. It’s not meta but that doesn’t make it so terrible that it should be deleted.

Honestly thats a lot of “ifs” when you are talking about how useful/powerful Ineptitude is as a trait. Fact is, it was much more representative of a grandmaster trait back before a bunch of our skills got changed. Ineptitude was never updated when the skills it synergized most with were changed to remove that synergy. In that light I do think that it needs to be updated considering it is grandmaster tier and has to compete MoF and MS.

Or rather, instead of the trait needing to be updated, the synergy that our other skills had with it that was removed needs to be partially restored.

“In that light I do think that it needs to be updated considering it is grandmaster tier and has to compete MoF and MS.

Or rather, instead of the trait needing to be updated, the synergy that our other skills had with it that was removed needs to be partially restored."

Yeah I was rambling a bit but all the "if"s are because I would prefer option two.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

This is not the best way to fix it. It kills diversity. I realize that some traits look lack luster but in a game with 3 main modes and a bunch of further niches within each node, only being able to pick 3 trait lines with no further diversity would be dull to say the least.

I’d actually see it as a strength in regards to WvW/sPvP.

Much like WoW recently started using a separate PvP talent tree, I’d say they can exchange or even add/remove trait (lines) as desired for WvW and sPvP specific purposes. Maybe Inspiration just isn’t a pick in WvW, instead there’s a line called “Glamour” which also gives 2 new skills and a few other things, focusing you on a WvW specific role.

The absence of 15000 minuscule individual options allows for the remaining few dozen combinations to be big in effect, in turn allowing a proper per-mode alignment of the class while being entirely self-explanatory to first-timers, as they’re used to picking trait lines, and there could just be PvE / sPvP / WvW markers on the traitlines for mode-specific ones.

Yeah it’s a big rework, but I really feel that the plethora of choices we have is causing issues all over the line. Now ofc this amounts to much more than just traits, but traits are an easy and effective thing to modify, especially if all they need to do is sort of “force” traits with the selected line, meaning the underlying implementation can stay, just the UI changes and the individual traits do.

So it’s been a long time since I’ve played WoW so I just want to make sure we’re on the same page. Back then it didn’t matter what weapon I picked on my Paladin besides 1 handed+shield or 2 handed. Furthermore, 1 or 2 tank skills were locked behind a tank line and restricted to the tank weapon. (Similar situation with DPS and healing etc.)

Are you basically suggesting that instead of Dueling, we have “tank traitline”. Without tank traitline, you can equip a sword but you can’t use blurred frenzy. Instead of Domination, we have “DPS traitline”. Without DPS traitline, you can’t summon phantasms?

I realize you mentioned inspiration vs glamours but that won’t work. PvE still uses feedback, TW and portal when necessary. PvP uses null field and portal. WvW uses veil and portal. That won’t be a PvP line. It’ll be a diversity killing line because rarely does any build bring all of one utility type.

If I fully understand you now. I’m still going to have to disagree because that’s not the game I want. I realize there are a lot of “non-viable” builds but I do like messing with them a lot too.

Hrm, no, not like that. I was more thinking that we keep the skills the we have right now, but lose the trait choices. Some get baked into skills, some don’t.

And then a traitline could be something like:

Inspiration

• Your Phantasms apply Regeneration in a radius around them.
• Healing yourself causes you to also heal allies around you.
• Blocking or Evading attacks summons a Phantasmal Defender.
• Getting affected by more than X conditions summons a Phantasmal Disenchanter.
• Summoning Phantasms spreads boons from you to nearby allies.

The numbers and CDs would ofc be different from how these are now, plus some other stuff is folded baseline, etc. Anyhow the point would be, this is a supportive Phantasm-centric traitline. Probably needs stronger effects than what I wrote there, but just to convey the idea.

But say in WvW due to issues with boon spreading, this traitline doesn’t actually exist that way. Instead there is as traitline called Glamour:

• Your glamour abilities grant resistance and regeneration to allies on cast.
• (a few more passive effects or procs)
• You gain access to the ability Illusion of Health, temporarily curing and healing allies in an area though they take damage and conditions afterwards.
• You gain access to the ability Mesmer’s Wall, creating a wall which makes it impossible to see or target enemies on the other side, though it does not prevent movement.

And so on. Seriously, that’s stuff I wrote down in 2 minutes so don’t take the specific ideas too serious. But the idea would be less to split our skills into trait lines and we have to take that line to get them (especially for weapon skills! :o ), but more to give the remaining choices more “freedom” of character development.

Is all a very rough idea, but the way current traitlines always need to have the very same layout is rather limiting, IMO. And as I also feel we just have too much (never thought I’d write that about an MMO <.< ) character customization in GW2, it’d be a nice thing to adapt. More ability to make characters unique, less raw amount of combinations and hence easier to balance for the devs.