Guild Wars 2

Strictly PvE, I want to know about the Mesmers viability and versatility, whether it be for hearts or dungeon groups. I’ve checked out the Mesmer in the mists and found an underwhelming amount of weapon skills and seemingly useless utility and elite skills. PLEASE prove me wrong, for the love of god. I always get class envy when I see Mesmers in groups, but when I hop on one they seem quite dry :/

I am not trying to bash the profession or anything like that, and I know I have barely even gotten my foot in the door when It comes to mechanics and skills so please tell me some good things!

If you will survive leveling to level 40-50, you will find out that it is not so bad. Just do not expect to be true uberdamager or true tank or true healer. You are universal with many interesting choices to be made.

General PvE is so easy that anything will work, and so will Mesmers. Just go glass cannon with Sword+Focus/Greatsword and you’ll do no worse than anyone else.

Now, dungeons actually need some thought, and Mesmers can be pretty versatile. Illusions are effective at taking heat off other party members, iWarlock/iWarden have crazy single-target damage… Feedback, Null Field and Chaos Warp are also MvPs. These are tools that any build can use effectively.

Other than that, I’ve done Ascalon with one guy that had the traits that make Diversion work on allies and reflect projectiles, that was fun. I myself use a GS/Staff build with permanent regen to all allies and protection on myself, which together with iDefender makes me pretty much unkillable. Portal, Blink and Mass Invisibility can be used to bypass large sections of certain dungeons.

So yeah, I think Mesmers are very viable and fun in PvE.

Short answer is no.

If you survive the grind to 40 then you can stack crit and get the trait that gives you a clone on dodge and go the one viable build to get through exploring/story but every other class will be doing it much faster then you. Then when you get to 80 you will be unable to effectively join in the mass AoE zerg that Orr is.

In dungeons we have some gimmicky utilities and Time Warp but everything else we can do while they are on cool down will be barely noticeable and they just nerfed our ability to get Phantasms out so now our DPS will be even lower in dungeons.

In WvWvW we once again have some gimmicky utilities and elites to help out. And in small scale stuff we can do alright but our lack of speed boosts makes it hard to actually get anywhere we are needed.

Also today’s patch showed that they consider PvP a higher priority then PvE even though PvE is where everybody is playing so expect some more Mesmer nerfs in the upcoming patches until they can barely take on some random mob 1 on 1.

If you ask the same exact question that has been asked 50 times already, you’ll get the same answers that have been given 50 times already. Depending on who you ask, yes, no, or maybe.

Yeah, mesmer is good.

I strongly disagree about not being able to AoE in Orr. A good use of GS and sword abilities will allow good farm in DEs. It’s just not as facerolling as other classes. Mesmers can perform well, but it requires a lot more attention to do so.

In dungeons we have great utility (both offesnive and defensive) and good dps. Our elites are actually quite bad, however.

In WvW, I tried a few classes and never found any that came close to how awesome a mesmer is. You can drop aoe with no LoS (and there fore kill people on walls), kick people from walls, make portals for your team… And the class is really strong for small skirmishes.

Voodoo Tina.4180:

If you ask the same exact question that has been asked 50 times already, you’ll get the same answers that have been given 50 times already. Depending on who you ask, yes, no, or maybe.

You could have posted another thread, said your opinion or not said anything at all. This is just unnecessary. The people who wanted to answer answered and the people who didn’t said nothing. I just needed some more information on the subject and didn’t want to dig through old threads or look somewhere else online. I would rather hear from first hand experiences.

Yes, it’s viable. It can bring some tricks to the table most other classes can’t match. I can’t really call it the ‘king’ of anything, though.

I find other classes far more user-friendly to play, in pve. I’m running all 8 classes (though haven’t got them all to 80 yet, just a few are 80 atm, and the rest are currently at 20s/30s/40s) Playing all possible classes is something I do in every game just to “beat” the game in different ways, so I have a decent amount of experience with game balance vs different classes…and have to say the mesmer in GW2 requires a lot more effort to level than do the other classes of this game.

Major problem with one of the best ways to gain loot (DEs) is the lack of decent aoe, despite what some here insist on telling you. A mesmer in pve has trouble tagging enough mobs with sufficient damage in the DEs later on, as other classes wipe the mobs out with their good aoes much quicker than a mesmer can tag let alone do enough damage (DEs in Orr specifically, others aren’t as farmed, in Orr DE spawns go down in a matter of seconds), so best to raise alts to farm loot – don’t try on your mesmer.

Fun is relative. To me, the class is very fun. In PvP. In PvE, it is one of the worst classes I played so far.

Viable? Again, yes. In PvP. But in PvE, no, not really. Ever since I started my new Engineer and began to seriously level, I can’t really play my Mesmer any more. Lack of reliable, spammable, extremely long range damage and insane mobility (100% 5-second sprint, and permanent 33% swiftness) totally kill it. And when it comes to farming DEs, Engineer is just so much better it’s not even debatable.

The mesmer is a tricky class to get a handle on. There were times I wondered if I chose the right class, but once I hot the hang of it, it really rocks. You have to master kiting and/or hit and run tactics while managing your illusions, but once you do you are very powerful against just about any foe. Since they lack spammable aoe skills, they do suffer farming end game DEs, but they can do everything else very well if you take the time to learn how.

You have to master kiting and/or hit and run tactics while managing your illusions

Problem is, all of this takes time. And the more time it takes, the slower your progress. Be that PvE or PvP.

When I play my Mesmer, I kite and I dodge. When I play my Engi, I don’t have to. Simply chaining blinds and bringing forth brutal damage (most of which is either 360 AoE or at the very least a cone), things my level die before they can even get through all the blinds. And those blinds are part of the DPS rotation, they happen when I shoot things, they happen when I blow things up, etc. These are not CC skills like Magic Bullet.

Can you solo just about anything on a Mesmer? Yes, absolutely. Can most other classes do the same, but faster? In my opinion? Yes, absolutely. I could be mistaken, but my Engi alt is nearing 80 in less than half the time it took my Mesmer, largely thanks to massive AoE and permanent swiftness, and so far I haven’t encountered anything I could do on a Mesmer that I couldn’t on the Engi, and faster.

PvE, lets just hope you are not on one of the busy servers or you will never get any loot from level 80 DE.

Luckly I have 2 other 80s I use for DEs

Most of the Mesmer’s utilities are for group play or PvP, and are indeed rather lackluster when used for soloing. For this reason, I usually use racial utilities or all Mantras for an Empowered Mantras build (i.e. I charge Mantras for the 4% damage boost and never touch them unless I absolutely have to).

my main is a Mesmer, i’ve played it since day -3 and i can say it is indeed viable AND fun un PvE (i’m not much of a PvP person) … BUT! is not an easy profession to master, you have to spend some time actually reading your skills and figuring out what synergizes with what, and so you have multiple choices, you can play a condition damage build, a direct damage/shatter build or a Illusions focused build… so yeah, testing chars in the mists is not really a good idea, i did that with guardians and hated it, now i have mine at lvl 20 and its kinda decent, still find better my mesmer…

If you are just dodging like a maniac to buy time, then yes, it will take longer. The trick is to make your time work for you instead of just for defense. For example, when I finish my blurred frenzy and need to dive away, I roll through my warden. Anything that follows gets absolutely destroyed, or if they stop to get the warden I don’t waste time letting him die. I blast them with a shatter and jump back in there or roll a berserker over them. Little thing like that add up and save a lot of time when it come to bringing down mobs. I almost never take more than a few seconds per fight unless I’m rolling deep in enemy territory fighting off waves.

BTW, I can take 2 vets and a champ with my mes; I can’t do that with my engine. If you can, you’re a better engi than me. Congrats.

Viable? Yes. You can solo to 80 and in orr, etc. You’ll be slower at clearing trash mobs than other classes (makes some of the story missions pretty hard, especially early on), you won’t be able to do much against enemies that spam aoe (mostly just applies to specific dungeon and dynamic event bosses), and you’ll have trouble tagging mobs in dynamic events. On the other hand, once you get used to the class you’ll find that you only die when you screw up.

Fun? Depends on what you like. It’s very different from playing any of the other classes. You kind of just have to try it and see.

When we’re good (IE against mobs with projectiles) we are really good. When we’re bad, we’re the worst.

The initial levels can be meh, since you lack the traits to really come into power.
Once you are there, Mesmer really rocks. Instances are helped greatly because we can interrupt so incredibly much (plus Feedback – Feeeeeedback).

I have yet to feel that another Caster-class can contribute more than I can in a dungeon – Necros in condition-spam excepted, but then that’s fairly marginalized.

In pve, you can get by with proper use of the phantasms

In WvW is where this class truely shines, not even elementalist comes close to a well placed feedback and improved Warden, which stops the dps of the entire enemy zerg and makes them hit themselves

In spvp, we already know they are OP, but not as OP as thieves

2 out of 3, not bad if i do say so myself

WvW is absolutely amazing. There’s so many viable builds, and they’re all a ton of fun to play \o/

Asthenea.1546:

Voodoo Tina.4180:

If you ask the same exact question that has been asked 50 times already, you’ll get the same answers that have been given 50 times already. Depending on who you ask, yes, no, or maybe.

You could have posted another thread, said your opinion or not said anything at all. This is just unnecessary. The people who wanted to answer answered and the people who didn’t said nothing. I just needed some more information on the subject and didn’t want to dig through old threads or look somewhere else online. I would rather hear from first hand experiences.

That is my opinion. The question is asked and answered almost every day. The treads are not old, and the experiences no less first hand. It would actually be less work for you to scroll down the page – and maybe even check the second page.

Like I said, same people, same answers. There is no consensus. You have to play one and see what you think. If you listen to me, you will believe Mesmer is the most fun profession in any MMO I’ve played. It is not perfect yet, there are some bugs you need to be aware of, scepter (for me) is lackluster, and a few skills are of questionable usefulness. There is a lot already posted about those issues that doesn’t need repeating.

Yeah, mesmer used to be fun an viable. Until today…

Gaiawolf.8261:

If you are just dodging like a maniac to buy time, then yes, it will take longer. The trick is to make your time work for you instead of just for defense. For example, when I finish my blurred frenzy and need to dive away, I roll through my warden.

Consider what you’re saying though. To do Blurred Frenzy, mobs need to be in your face. How much damage have you done to them before they get there? With grenade Engi, melee mobs are at least half-dead before they get to melee range. And this is not using the slowing grenade, and have a ton of conditions on them. And all of this is AoE, with 1500 range. Can a Mesmer compete? Nope.

If you run to melee range as your opener, you’re probably running slow (without Into the Void, at best it has 50% uptime). Engi runs fast (100%+ swiftness uptime). Again, superior to Mesmer.

OK, so you got the mobs, did your Blurred Frenzy and rolled through Warden. If you rolled through him, there’s no guarantee he’s still swinging, or that you can remain there. Mobs could just run through his AoE really quick taking a few hits (especially true of Risen with frenzy). Granted, until 2 patches ago with Phantasmal Haste he’d be swinging non-stop. Now, there’s a 6-7 second break between his attacks, and he attacks for 5 seconds. And he starts attacking as soon as summoned. He could also be dead to a melee mob, I often have my iWarden 1-shot as he phases in when summoned.

And what is better, iWarden or Mines? I vote for mines. AoE blind that keeps refreshing, with a huge area of effect. Burn mine, confusion mine, etc. I’m also reasonably sure a mine (basic #1 skill) will out-DPS iWarden. According to Wiki, Warden swings 12 times with base 30 base damage. Mine does 407 AoE base. That’s 360 vs 407. And mine takes a second do explode, during which you already put down another. And another. And another. No need to dodge, as AoE blind mine is still keeping everything from hitting you. Compared to Warden that does his damage over 5 seconds, and mine does it instantly.

I dunno… I mean, I admit I haven’t played my Mesmer much lately. I just can’t handle the tortoise-slow movement around the map after being spoiled with 100% swiftness uptime. But in PvE my Engi absolutely rocks the socks of any Mesmer. Mine or anyone else’s. I often PvE side by side with other folks, just to see how fast my kill speed is relative to them, and grenade/bomb Engi does it considerably faster with a lot less movement needed (and hence less possibility of unwanted aggro).

Mesmers are pretty awesome in both PVP and PVE…
You just have to find your way thru first 30 lvls then you will start to shine.
If you go DPS way you will do pretty numbers in very fast sequence but you wont see as high Crits as elles or thieves can do.
If you go Condition/support you wil be perfect for dungen crawling with friends since you can stack 10+ bleeds perma and a lot of confusion with your Combo fields (I play an assura using staff – chaos storm, null field, feedback, radiation field, Time Warp= almost perma poison and tens of confusions).
Mesmers are pretty awesome I think that my contribution to party in dungeon is enormous I am focusing on fallen ally reviving because I Still do pretty awesome dmg with clones and illusions.

Go for it!

For hearts and dungeons, Mesmers are fine. Currently Mesmers may be slightly OP for dungeons.

When doing dungeons I’m enjoying what Mesmer can bring to a group and I like the survivability. The only thing I don’t like is the lack of a good sustained dmg rotation in longer fights against a single target.

EasymodeX.4062

For hearts and dungeons, Mesmers are fine. Currently Mesmers may be slightly OP for dungeons.

I know I really shouldn’t because you seem to have some obsession with lieing about Mesmers but here we go.

Mesmers are the worst class for doing hearts. Twice as much work for half the results.

Most if not all hardcore dungeon grinding groups put Mesmer as 7th in the rank of how good classes are in dungeons, only just beating out the ultra crappyness of Ranger. The only thing they provide is feedback and time wrap.

The Mesmer is kinda… bleh in PvE. It works, it’s fairly reliable in its inconsistencies, it may ultimately be tougher for the average mob to kill than most other professions (because they’re really stupid about pets/minions). On the other hand, it’s not good at dealing with a pack of mobs, it’s terrible at on-demand AoE, and it’s pretty lackluster at quick-and-easy kills for farming compared to most other offensively-built professions.

One of my biggest issues with Mesmer in PvE, though, is low-cooldown, reliable condition removal. You’re either waiting on a 45-second utility or praying that your slow and squishy phantasm is willing to throw you a bone.

Of course, it’s the most fun class to play in the game. It lives up to the fun factor of GW1’s mesmer, just plays differently. Great AoE damage with Into the Void + Warden + Sword as well.

It was and probably still is viable.

But everyone is right. Mesmer is a far more difficult class to play than any of the others (with the possible exception of certain thief builds). I only say this, since I actively play all the professions, except Engineer.

Here’s the rub. A mesmer had very delicately balanced skills. A few buffs, a few escapes, a few (relatively weak) dps skills, and no real AoE (our AoE is too situation-specific to qualify as a general nuke, but this is not the place to discuss types of AoE).

That meant you could do anything, and for the most part do it well, but you only had one shot to do it. A thief that wastes his dodge can simply use another evasion tactic. A warrior that misses his burst can simply pressure until it is up again.

Not so with Mesmer. To be viable as a mesmer, you simply can’t make mistakes. You have no backup evasion, you have to make the one you have work. You have no backup DPS, you waste a phantasm on a weak foe, you have probably burnt your only real DPS until recharge.

And honestly, Mesmers – for the most part – accepted this. Being a Mesmer primary was kinda like being part of an elite specialist club. You were the perfect player or you died – a lot.

The one thing we Mesmers have constantly asked for was an increased DPS, since comparatively – a perfect Mesmer traited for damage will always have lower DPS than just the average player of any other class, especially if that player is traited to deal damage. That never meant we were not viable, it just meant we had to work a lot harder.

Unfortunately, since there are many other class primaries and few Mesmer primaries, we were singled out for nerfing. The “problem” the other classes whined about wasn’t our phantasms – even in sPvP. The problem was our trickery and our ability to actually deceive other PCs. We became everyone’s least favorite target because we got good at hiding at that perfect moment, amongst our clones. I can’t tell you how many outside-class guides I read that claimed their class would always beat a mesmer 1-on-1 eventually, but recommended staying away since you could fight three other people in the time it took to find one good mesmer.

Thus, the others whined about our clones the illusions that look like us. A few didn’t like phantasms, but that was mostly because the phantasms were an irritant as they were sorting the mesmers from the clones. Regardless our phantasms – really the best DPS to which we had access – paid the price for everyone else’s whining with some rather intense recharge increases in the latest patch. Thus, rather than equalize the mesmer DPS up to the level of the average profession, ArenaNet nerfed our DPS further. I cannot think of any reason why that change would help anybody.

I honestly don’t know whether Mesmers are still viable, I have declined to play my mesmer at all since the nerf. I imagine that the increased recharge has seriously messed up the delicate balance making even average gameplay several times harder.

It is probably still viable, just now it’s probably a lot more difficult.

As for fun in PvE? Mesmer made me love GW2. It’s intense, interesting, and requires 100% concentration at all times. Mesmers have no time off. In short it is a blast.

I don’t know if it will remain that much fun. Mesmers are already ridiculously hared to play. If mesmers keep getting slammed in the updates, they may become completely unplayable.

You have no backup DPS, you waste a phantasm on a weak foe, you have probably burnt your only real DPS until recharge.

Sounds like a build problem/risk if all your DPS is stacked into 1 button and you blow it.

EasymodeX.4062:

You have no backup DPS, you waste a phantasm on a weak foe, you have probably burnt your only real DPS until recharge.

Sounds like a build problem/risk if all your DPS is stacked into 1 button and you blow it.

Please keep things in context mate. Usually I would simply steamroll a comment like that, but I know you to be a pretty decent guy from other forum posts.

So instead I will explain. DPS, like all other mesmer abilities, is heavily limited. On any given thief build there will be 3-5 evasions. On any given warrior build, there will be 3-4 bursts. But mesmers – by nature of the class – have less options. There are no weapon combinations that produce multiple phantasms. The recharge rate of our Shatters is time prohibitive. The utility phantasms do little dps and are there for specialty usage. Our other weapon skills are geared toward accomplishing particular non-DPS goals. There are no serious direct damage utilities.

Thus, Mesmers cannot create a multi-DPS build. It is not that we take risks in putting together crazy builds, it is that we are limited by the game’s structure. If you are running the pistol offhand and drop your Illusionary Duelist, chances are strong that that skill will do 65% more damage than the rest of your bar combined. If you drop it on the wrong target, you waste it and have to go on defense until it recharges. Now that it’s been nerfed, it just takes that much longer to recharge.

I hope that explains my comment about “perfect” play. There are certainly lots of styles of play burst, phantasm, condition, boons, etc. that a mesmer can play. But we can only trait – usually – for one, despite the fact that our weapon-build options give us skills for all.

Essentially, as a Mesmer you deal lots and lots of “cuts” to opponents. But you only have one chance to deal a serious blow: DPS, condition, or otherwise. You have to make that one count or you will end up dead.

Likewise, my opinion on the nerf is that: (A) it was made to correct a perceived problem rather than a real problem; (B) it did not actually address even the problem that was perceived; and (C ) it decreases the DPS on the class with the lowest overall DPS.

The nerf was a bad move. Not just for current mesmers, but for future mesmers trying to learn a hard profession that just got that much harder. It’s not impossible – doing ranged damage as a Guardian is impossible – it’s just unnecessarily difficult.

@JackAngelfoot

Your post really appears, at first read, to be coming from someone that has basically only really played a Phantasm pet class, with a build revolving around just keeping as many alive and active, and thus neglecting shatters. This seems reinforced with your comment regarding a Duelist doing 65% of your damage.

There are certainly builds that utilize both phantasms and shatters. It just requires knowing the right time and order to summon the clones and phantasms so you get the maximum damage from the phantasms, and limiting the amount of them you shatter.

For instance, I would personally start a fight:

w/Staff- Dodge, Phase retreat, Decoy, Mind Wrack, Dodge, Mirror Images, CoF, Warlock
swap to Sword- Swordsman, Blurred Frenzy, Auto a few times until right after Warlock/Swordsman attack, Dodge, Mind Wrack, Illusionary Leap
back to Staff- dodge, Phase retreat, CoF, Warlock…etc

Fun – definitely.

Viable – meh.

You are definitely helpful in dungeon runs and provide decent DPS and utility.

You are mediocre at grinding and poor at AoE for Dynamic Events. Run 20/20/0/0/30 for shatter-spam builds for dynamic events.

There are no weapon combinations that produce multiple phantasms. The recharge rate of our Shatters is time prohibitive. The utility phantasms do little dps and are there for specialty usage. Our other weapon skills are geared toward accomplishing particular non-DPS goals. There are no serious direct damage utilities.

Thus, Mesmers cannot create a multi-DPS build.

You should try playing GS and/or Sword more. GS’s Mirror Blade does as much damage as Warlock/Duelist/Swordsman if you trait Elasticity. Blurred Frenzy also does as much damage as those.

The IP shatter power I use does exactly that: a third of the damage output is from phantasms, a third is from shatters, and a third is from other abilities. MB crits for 2.8k x3. Shatter crits for 2.8k x4. Two phantasms crit for 10k. BF for 7k.

Anytime someone claims “2/3s of my damage is iDuelist!” I do a facepalm.

Like I said: it’s a build/playstyle problem if you throw all your eggs into the phantasm basket and then misfire.

IMO, the only time you should legitimately have “all phantasm damage” is when you build defensively around Staff and have to do a lot of defensive kiting using a power build (e.g. Warlock doing a lot of your dps).

Unfortunately, since there are many other class primaries and few Mesmer primaries, we were singled out for nerfing.

You really believe this? kitten
(This feels like talking to some Creationist-person, they’re just so much into their stuff you can’t even find an angle where to start.)

Oh, one thing: We’re not rare by count:
http://guildwars2viz.com/

Not only are we paired with Engineers, Necros are only minimally ahead, and except Warriors and Rangers no class is noticeably ahead. In fact, even given Warriors, Professions are fairly even – which is surprising for a game featuring “tried&true” classes like Warriors and Rangers.

Thank you all for the discussion, I guess I was totally misunderstood.

alanis.6094:

For instance, I would personally start a fight: w/Staff- Dodge, Phase retreat, Decoy, Mind Wrack, Dodge, Mirror Images, CoF, Warlock….

Way to call me on the 65% number. I freakin guessed and I guess I deserved that.

When using a staff, I use the setup and several of the methods you use. Heck, I even use Decoy on my utility bar. But, statistically speaking, leaving a phantasm up (depending on the phantasm of course) will typically do significantly more damage than shattering. Shatter-on-recharge, unless heavily traited, will typically do far less DPS than would multiple phantasms maintained. A cook-the-clone build, with mirror images, etc. might challenge that. And a good staff/conditions build has next to no DPS, but the ridiculous conditioning will more than make up for it.

EasymodeX.4062:

You should try playing GS and/or Sword more….

Until I tried screwing with the Staff, I was almost religious with my GS/S builds.

Again, I used unreasearched numbers.
Again, I acknowledge that we have other DPS, especially when traited. But my point was not to say that only phantasm builds were viable. Rather, I was trying to illustrate that most builds focus heavily on one or two skills. As a mesmer you can’t waste skills. And we get hammered by recharge of any one relevant skill. Much more so than a class with many similar skills.

Will get to my real points below.

@Carighan
I do believe what I said, and apparently you do too. But again, my comment was misunderstood. I was not making a per capita comparison argument as I believe you thought, I was making a rather obvious observation.

According to your link, which is cool btw, 90% of guild wars characters are not Mesmers. Even assuming all classes had exactly equal participation, only 12.5% of the people would primary in Mesmer. Thus, 87.5% of players are not mesmer primaries. It is my contention, that many of those who do not play mesmer do not understand mesmer. It has nothing to do with the per capita distribution of character professions. General misunderstanding is why we were singled out for a nerf. Please note, although I play even more Guardian than Mesmer, right now, I have nothing to say on the Guardian nerf. Useful or not, at least they explained that one.
Now, to dispel all notions otherwise:
Mesmers are fun. Mesmers are viable. I love being a Mesmer!

Heck, Mesmer brought me back to the game. I almost left in the first week, because I hated thief so much. (Got over it, detailed in another post.)

The points I was trying to make:

1. Mesmers didn’t need the nerf. We are a good class, a fun class, but not an overpowered class. Mesmers were nerfed because they were misunderstood, because the majority of players have not played mesmer enough to deal with our unique mechanics. (When thief gets nerfed, I will probably say the same thing.)
2. Mesmer is not a high DPS class and this nerf hurt that DPS. That does not mean we are not viable or we only get DPS from phantasms. But it is harder to maintain squishy phantasms and it is harder to shatter when we have a longer cooldown period. That is true whether phantasms are the cannon or the cannon fodder.
3. This update did not “fix” the perceived problem; meaning they will probably nerf us again.

Hrm, fair point – although then that’d work just as well against other classes, even Warriors are only 16% of players, versus the other 84% of us who frankly, can’t stand them. :P

I would argue that we needed a nerf, but we need bugfixes and – more importantly IMO, actually – we need our traits sorted out. Not only are many too weak (none of our GM traits strike me as something GM worthy, in most cases the same line has much much stronger traits before, sometimes as minors), they are also horribly unsorted, few lines show much cohesion or theming.

Interresting thread.

@OP
It depends what you’re looking for as toon for PVE. As explained already by others we aren’t the kings in aoe on easy to kill NPC’s. We’re actually bad farmers. Where we shine is on big and strong targets when we have the time to setup everything properly. We don’t have kitten burst at opening as during that time we’re just setting up our stuff. That’s one big reason why there’s a lot of whining on the Mesmer forum. On easy NPC’s it takes us way more time to kill it compared to other classes.

One of the things I like and enjoy with my little Mesmer is her incredible surviving/dps ratio in end game. It’s not a matter of “can I kill it” but how long is it going to take me to kill it. This of course lvl 80 full traited in exo heal/support specced.

@JackAngelfoot – well I didnt read all your walls of text but I read first paragraph of each your comment and you are prolly bad mesmer and most of your ideas are bullkittens