Guild Wars 2

This is in terms of tpvp, I’ve been using the build and slowly getting the hang of it, but I noticed metabattle will say things like this is the most common and viable build for mesmers in tpvp. Is it really the best choice for team battles if you know how to use it?

Right now it does look that way, some have tried sword+torch in place of staff, usually if without a thief, but staff is such a great kite weapon and has chaos storm. Greatsword is very strong for the ranged damage, even just pressing 1 does good damage with air+fire sigils, let alone everything else.

This is without even getting into the shatter side of it, massive aoe damage on mindwrack (and with mirroblade/beserker putting them right on top of the enemy), boon stripping and the interrupt from diversion.

At the moment the meta doesn’t favor Mesmers fighting on point and sword has been heavily nerfed to boot. It’s a reliable yet unreliable weapon.

sendmark.4731:

Right now it does look that way, some have tried sword+torch in place of staff, usually if without a thief, but staff is such a great kite weapon and has chaos storm. Greatsword is very strong for the ranged damage, even just pressing 1 does good damage with air+fire sigils, let alone everything else.

This is without even getting into the shatter side of it, massive aoe damage on mindwrack (and with mirroblade/beserker putting them right on top of the enemy), boon stripping and the interrupt from diversion.

Would you say it’s still viable if I use the 20% more mindwrack damage trait over the trait that inflicts 600 damage upon interrupting a foe?

DrDivine.5378:

This is in terms of tpvp, I’ve been using the build and slowly getting the hang of it, but I noticed metabattle will say things like this is the most common and viable build for mesmers in tpvp. Is it really the best choice for team battles if you know how to use it?

Apparently that’s what the pros think.

Of course the build comes with major liabilities, and thus the derision amongst the community.

Yay!

DrDivine.5378:

sendmark.4731:

Right now it does look that way, some have tried sword+torch in place of staff, usually if without a thief, but staff is such a great kite weapon and has chaos storm. Greatsword is very strong for the ranged damage, even just pressing 1 does good damage with air+fire sigils, let alone everything else.

This is without even getting into the shatter side of it, massive aoe damage on mindwrack (and with mirroblade/beserker putting them right on top of the enemy), boon stripping and the interrupt from diversion.

Would you say it’s still viable if I use the 20% more mindwrack damage trait over the trait that inflicts 600 damage upon interrupting a foe?

Yes, its still viable, however with the double ranged shatter you have access to a lot of interrupts (gs# 5, staff#5, diversion) and the dmg from halting strike crits for about 2k, which adds up to quite a bit. The 20% more mind wrack dmg is more of a one trick pony thing. Yes you get 20% more dmg on your biggest burst of dmg, but youd get the same dmg out of halting strike, just not all tied to one easily dodgeable ability

Carpboy.7145:

DrDivine.5378:

sendmark.4731:

Right now it does look that way, some have tried sword+torch in place of staff, usually if without a thief, but staff is such a great kite weapon and has chaos storm. Greatsword is very strong for the ranged damage, even just pressing 1 does good damage with air+fire sigils, let alone everything else.

This is without even getting into the shatter side of it, massive aoe damage on mindwrack (and with mirroblade/beserker putting them right on top of the enemy), boon stripping and the interrupt from diversion.

Would you say it’s still viable if I use the 20% more mindwrack damage trait over the trait that inflicts 600 damage upon interrupting a foe?

Yes, its still viable, however with the double ranged shatter you have access to a lot of interrupts (gs# 5, staff#5, diversion) and the dmg from halting strike crits for about 2k, which adds up to quite a bit. The 20% more mind wrack dmg is more of a one trick pony thing. Yes you get 20% more dmg on your biggest burst of dmg, but youd get the same dmg out of halting strike, just not all tied to one easily dodgeable ability

Can you please name all the interrupts with this build that count for halting strike? That might be my problem, I’m not utilizing the trait to its full potential.

Idk if Im using this build right, but typically ill start with the staff, use #2, #3, dodge roll forward and use diversion, then switch to greatsword and use $4, #2, dodge roll forward, #3 with mind wrack. Tips and tricks on this build greatly appreciated, would you say this build is good for 1v1 rooms or 1v1s?

DrDivine.5378:

sendmark.4731:

Right now it does look that way, some have tried sword+torch in place of staff, usually if without a thief, but staff is such a great kite weapon and has chaos storm. Greatsword is very strong for the ranged damage, even just pressing 1 does good damage with air+fire sigils, let alone everything else.

This is without even getting into the shatter side of it, massive aoe damage on mindwrack (and with mirroblade/beserker putting them right on top of the enemy), boon stripping and the interrupt from diversion.

Would you say it’s still viable if I use the 20% more mindwrack damage trait over the trait that inflicts 600 damage upon interrupting a foe?

Over time Halting Strike does more damage if you get good at interrupting. The key reason that double ranged is considered meta is that it isn’t good for mesmer to get in melee range on a point any more, sword isn’t particularly good and staff offers a lot of sustain pressure. Also staff gives us a lot of mobility, forward phase retreat allows us to cover a lot of ground and when you’re competent with it you can seamlessly teleport onto ledges and behind pillars to los with it.

EDIT : Also remember that Mesmer doesn’t really have rotations. You adapt to the opponent more than cycling through your own skills (other than gs 2 + mind wrack). If you want to improve your 1v1 abilities head over to some duelling servers; we have some pretty good Mesmers in EU who frequent them such as: Helseth, Misha, Azani, Sensotix, Phantom V, Monns etc. Keep an eye out for em and watch em.

Halting can crit for almost 4k – it has a VERY high variance in damage, it can obliterate someone if you get lucky. Also a strong backup for damage if Mind Wrack is on CD and lets you counter spike someone.

I think its a bit too strong but there are other things needing addressed first.

It’s a hard build, and mesmers can’t really stand on a capture point for too long not even in 1v1s, that’s not their role. But the damage you bring into teamfights is great, along with portal play, for example you can put portal at far and then go mid – if your opponent leaves far, you can portal back to decap and then portal back to the fight – but if they don’t want that to happen, they obviously can’t move away, which should make your team win the other points in 4v5.

It’s good for 1v1s just not on a tiny capture point. And don’t drop halting strike, it’s a really important part of your damage.

witcher.3197:

It’s a hard build, and mesmers can’t really stand on a capture point for too long not even in 1v1s, that’s not their role. But the damage you bring into teamfights is great, along with portal play, for example you can put portal at far and then go mid – if your opponent leaves far, you can portal back to decap and then portal back to the fight – but if they don’t want that to happen, they obviously can’t move away, which should make your team win the other points in 4v5.

It’s good for 1v1s just not on a tiny capture point. And don’t drop halting strike, it’s a really important part of your damage.

Can you name the utilities that trigger halting strike with this build?

DrDivine.5378:

witcher.3197:

It’s a hard build, and mesmers can’t really stand on a capture point for too long not even in 1v1s, that’s not their role. But the damage you bring into teamfights is great, along with portal play, for example you can put portal at far and then go mid – if your opponent leaves far, you can portal back to decap and then portal back to the fight – but if they don’t want that to happen, they obviously can’t move away, which should make your team win the other points in 4v5.

It’s good for 1v1s just not on a tiny capture point. And don’t drop halting strike, it’s a really important part of your damage.

Can you name the utilities that trigger halting strike with this build?

There are no utilities there that trigger it with this build. Only Illusionary Wave, Chaos Storm (randomly dazes in AoE), Diversion (F3), but it should be enough. The first 2 are AoE skills, and HS can proc for 2-4k on each target with every interrupt.

witcher.3197:

DrDivine.5378:

witcher.3197:

It’s a hard build, and mesmers can’t really stand on a capture point for too long not even in 1v1s, that’s not their role. But the damage you bring into teamfights is great, along with portal play, for example you can put portal at far and then go mid – if your opponent leaves far, you can portal back to decap and then portal back to the fight – but if they don’t want that to happen, they obviously can’t move away, which should make your team win the other points in 4v5.

It’s good for 1v1s just not on a tiny capture point. And don’t drop halting strike, it’s a really important part of your damage.

Can you name the utilities that trigger halting strike with this build?

There are no utilities there that trigger it with this build. Only Illusionary Wave, Chaos Storm (randomly dazes in AoE), Diversion (F3), but it should be enough. The first 2 are AoE skills, and HS can proc for 2-4k on each target with every interrupt.

A question about chaos storm then, I usually try to save it for things like rezzing or stomping, but should I also use it offensively when encountering an enemy?

you should start out with greatsword .. auto attacking them from range.. trying to proc air and fire sigils. using dancing sword thing and izerker to do damage then shatter for burst.

you should really do this until they die or atleast blow defensive cooldowns so you can blink/burst/shatter.

if they close the gap to you you can put down chaos storm on your feet and anyone trying to meele you in it will be at a disadvantage..

the main strength of this build is that greatsword is really good damage from far range.. where other professions are usually poor in a fight. if you are in this position you should just win a dps battle vs anyone with them having very little option but to close the gap.

at that point you can reset your position with blinks/stealths/ w/e and continue killing..

at the point they close the gap is usually a good time to burst before resetting your position since you can IP burst.

If you are dancing around a person in clsoe range dodge rolling bursting.. you are most likely trying to style not stay in an advantageous position. there are ranges that professions do thier best.. learn what they are. stay in positions that give you advantage..

DrDivine.5378:

witcher.3197:

DrDivine.5378:

witcher.3197:

It’s a hard build, and mesmers can’t really stand on a capture point for too long not even in 1v1s, that’s not their role. But the damage you bring into teamfights is great, along with portal play, for example you can put portal at far and then go mid – if your opponent leaves far, you can portal back to decap and then portal back to the fight – but if they don’t want that to happen, they obviously can’t move away, which should make your team win the other points in 4v5.

It’s good for 1v1s just not on a tiny capture point. And don’t drop halting strike, it’s a really important part of your damage.

Can you name the utilities that trigger halting strike with this build?

There are no utilities there that trigger it with this build. Only Illusionary Wave, Chaos Storm (randomly dazes in AoE), Diversion (F3), but it should be enough. The first 2 are AoE skills, and HS can proc for 2-4k on each target with every interrupt.

A question about chaos storm then, I usually try to save it for things like rezzing or stomping, but should I also use it offensively when encountering an enemy?

You should try to keep it for res/stomp and other important situations if possible, you’re doing it right :P But sometimes it’s the only way to stand a chance, for example against thieves (your hard-counter) – if a d/p goes into stealth + you are low on health and out of CDs, an Aegis from chaos storm or a daze to the thief can save you. Or if you really really want to interrupt a healing skill and you are in for a gamble (it’s not 100% that the skill will get rupted in time).

witcher.3197:

DrDivine.5378:

witcher.3197:

DrDivine.5378:

witcher.3197:

It’s a hard build, and mesmers can’t really stand on a capture point for too long not even in 1v1s, that’s not their role. But the damage you bring into teamfights is great, along with portal play, for example you can put portal at far and then go mid – if your opponent leaves far, you can portal back to decap and then portal back to the fight – but if they don’t want that to happen, they obviously can’t move away, which should make your team win the other points in 4v5.

It’s good for 1v1s just not on a tiny capture point. And don’t drop halting strike, it’s a really important part of your damage.

Can you name the utilities that trigger halting strike with this build?

There are no utilities there that trigger it with this build. Only Illusionary Wave, Chaos Storm (randomly dazes in AoE), Diversion (F3), but it should be enough. The first 2 are AoE skills, and HS can proc for 2-4k on each target with every interrupt.

A question about chaos storm then, I usually try to save it for things like rezzing or stomping, but should I also use it offensively when encountering an enemy?

You should try to keep it for res/stomp and other important situations if possible, you’re doing it right :P But sometimes it’s the only way to stand a chance, for example against thieves (your hard-counter) – if a d/p goes into stealth + you are low on health and out of CDs, an Aegis from chaos storm or a daze to the thief can save you. Or if you really really want to interrupt a healing skill and you are in for a gamble (it’s not 100% that the skill will get rupted in time).

Thank you for helping me use this build properly, I want to learn this build, I’ve been told it’s very hard to master while some say it’s just a glass cannon and a one trick pony, preferring lockdown.

I’m really enjoying it so far, but I do understand thieves being a hard counter. I get wrecked nearly every time against a thief xD

DrDivine.5378:

Would you say it’s still viable if I use the 20% more mindwrack damage trait over the trait that inflicts 600 damage upon interrupting a foe?

Halting strike also works very well with a co-ordinated burst, but I think 20% more mindwrack is still very good. If you play soloque a lot, you might want to try using it over halting. I’d also consider going double energy sigil and lyssa runes for soloque, since you’re not guaranteed good peels or a support on your team.

I’ve only been playing Mes for a little bit now but after trying 4/4/6/0/0 lockdown then making the swap to 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter I feel like Shatter wins by a long shot. There were moments were you could get that perfect series of interrupts and your DPS rapidly increases…or I could just use the build that gives me a huge burst that can almost insta-gib unaware targets with an easy setup. It also lets you take Portal which is just crazy useful when it comes to battlefield mobility.

I’m confused by this “hardcountered by Thieves” thing though because if you open up with a stealth and use that to set up you can pretty much one shot them become they have a chance to react. Sure if you get ambushed you might be screwed but if you save your Chaos Storm for defensive use all the aegis will keep you going. This is an actual game btw not duels, I don’t really worry about duel balance.

I still need to work on clone placement though, if you group them up you’re medi guard food.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m confused by this “hardcountered by Thieves” thing though because if you open up with a stealth and use that to set up you can pretty much one shot them become they have a chance to react. Sure if you get ambushed you might be screwed but if you save your Chaos Storm for defensive use all the aegis will keep you going. This is an actual game btw not duels, I don’t really worry about duel balance.

Shatter mes heavily relies on positioning and making gap with blink/phase retreat, with these skills you can kite a lot. But then you meet an S/D thief with multiple teleports, one of those has no CD, and making gap becomes impossible (they don’t even need line of sight for any of their ports). Or watch the recent WTS qualifiers, Levin on D/P jumps at Helseth in a teamfight, Steal + backstab = rekt – in 1v1 you can somewhat predict the burst, but in a teamfight there is no way, if the burst’s coming from stealth, there is 0 counterplay. You can’t even heal if you survive a Steal because you will have an extremely long Poison.

Benjamin.8237:

EDIT : Also remember that Mesmer doesn’t really have rotations. You adapt to the opponent more than cycling through your own skills (other than gs 2 + mind wrack). If you want to improve your 1v1 abilities head over to some duelling servers; we have some pretty good Mesmers in EU who frequent them such as: Helseth, Misha, Azani, Sensotix, Phantom V, Monns etc. Keep an eye out for em and watch em.

Holy hell, I was mentioned as a good mesmer hehe! It means a lot! Ben is also a really, really good mesmer.
To the guy that has issues with staff + gs shatter, take a look at my guide (in my sig) and add me in game. I recently started playing again so I’m not as good as I was before (I’m better in some aspects, worse in some), but I can most certainly give you some 1 on 1 lessons and would actually be glad to do it because teaching people is often a way for me to remember things I forgot.

I’d like to add that staff works insanely good for kiting and the thing that separates a good mesmer from a bad one is his kiting skills. Kiting allows you to save cooldowns, negate damage and so on. It’s key to learn if you want to be even half way decent at mesmer. I have a link to Helseths kiting guide on my guide but if you opt to meet me in game, I’ll show you a lot more that you can use. Staff is by far my favorite weapon for mesmer and even if the meta switched back to sword, I’d still play staff. Sword is now somewhat ok to play but staff is still superior.

I think thieves countering shatter mesmers is more of an accurate statement. Thieves have a lot of stealth and disengage potential as well as mobility, isn’t too hard for them to single out the mesmer in a group fight and drop their health with a steal combo.

Also in duels, a D/D thief can just CnD off of your clones until they land a backstab, pretty much as many times as they want. You can catch em with a shatter but it can be difficult. It is even more difficult for S/D thieves, they just teleport all over the place and daze you. It is a really tough match up for shatter mesmers for sure in this current meta.

I don’t think the OP is in danger of D/D Thieves since that weapon set sucks.

shimmerless.4560:

I don’t think the OP is in danger of D/D Thieves since that weapon set sucks.

Would you say this build could take on a dps medi guardian? Or do you think they are also a counter due to immobilizes and their burst?

Double range is not because sword is not reliable.Double range is because ppl think that if the pros play it,they should.Sword is still very handy.And yes,mesmer CAN stay on point(unless outnumbered ofc).Mesmer+tank guard can destory worlds.

killahmayne.9518:

I think thieves countering shatter mesmers is more of an accurate statement. Thieves have a lot of stealth and disengage potential as well as mobility, isn’t too hard for them to single out the mesmer in a group fight and drop their health with a steal combo.

Also in duels, a D/D thief can just CnD off of your clones until they land a backstab, pretty much as many times as they want. You can catch em with a shatter but it can be difficult. It is even more difficult for S/D thieves, they just teleport all over the place and daze you. It is a really tough match up for shatter mesmers for sure in this current meta.

You know what to do against those ride the CnD thieves? 3 izerkers and you in the middle.(AND DO NOT SHATTER),and if you have mantra od distraction,you have a dead thief.

Do you mean if mes can take on DPS guardian? I’d say yes. DPS guardian is a tough matchup but a billion times easier than thief.
You just have to dodge their burst and they’re free to attack. Boon strip that we have really kittens them.

Jurica.1742:

Do you mean if mes can take on DPS guardian? I’d say yes. DPS guardian is a tough matchup but a billion times easier than thief.
You just have to dodge their burst and they’re free to attack. Boon strip that we have really kittens them.

I wouldn’t say a billion times easier. I win more match ups vs good thieves atm compared to good offguards.

Jurica.1742:

Do you mean if mes can take on DPS guardian? I’d say yes. DPS guardian is a tough matchup but a billion times easier than thief.
You just have to dodge their burst and they’re free to attack. Boon strip that we have really kittens them.

I was wondering if the double ranged shatter could take out a dps medi guardian in 1v1s, or do you think they could counter this build?

killahmayne.9518:

I think thieves countering shatter mesmers is more of an accurate statement. Thieves have a lot of stealth and disengage potential as well as mobility, isn’t too hard for them to single out the mesmer in a group fight and drop their health with a steal combo.

Also in duels, a D/D thief can just CnD off of your clones until they land a backstab, pretty much as many times as they want. You can catch em with a shatter but it can be difficult. It is even more difficult for S/D thieves, they just teleport all over the place and daze you. It is a really tough match up for shatter mesmers for sure in this current meta.

It also doesn’t help when thieves “steal” Consume Plasma from us. If I played thief, I’d single out the Mesmer as well. We give them an Elite skill!

Really, I think if Consume plasma was changed so that it was a “random” 5 boons instead of EVERY BOON, then it wouldn’t be so one-sided. Mesmers have to live with “random” in all their skills, it makes sense that a skill “stolen” from a Mesmer should also be “random”.

Is there any other profession that can get EVERY BOON for 10 seconds in one skill?

DrDivine.5378:

Jurica.1742:

Do you mean if mes can take on DPS guardian? I’d say yes. DPS guardian is a tough matchup but a billion times easier than thief.
You just have to dodge their burst and they’re free to attack. Boon strip that we have really kittens them.

I was wondering if the double ranged shatter could take out a dps medi guardian in 1v1s, or do you think they could counter this build?

Average meditation guards easily. Top Meditation guards and we’re going to have to play perfectly or even initiate when they’re low on health.

SlimChance.6593:

killahmayne.9518:

I think thieves countering shatter mesmers is more of an accurate statement. Thieves have a lot of stealth and disengage potential as well as mobility, isn’t too hard for them to single out the mesmer in a group fight and drop their health with a steal combo.

Also in duels, a D/D thief can just CnD off of your clones until they land a backstab, pretty much as many times as they want. You can catch em with a shatter but it can be difficult. It is even more difficult for S/D thieves, they just teleport all over the place and daze you. It is a really tough match up for shatter mesmers for sure in this current meta.

It also doesn’t help when thieves “steal” Consume Plasma from us. If I played thief, I’d single out the Mesmer as well. We give them an Elite skill!

Really, I think if Consume plasma was changed so that it was a “random” 5 boons instead of EVERY BOON, then it wouldn’t be so one-sided. Mesmers have to live with “random” in all their skills, it makes sense that a skill “stolen” from a Mesmer should also be “random”.

Is there any other profession that can get EVERY BOON for 10 seconds in one skill?

Engineer prolly

Sandrox.9524:

SlimChance.6593:

killahmayne.9518:

I think thieves countering shatter mesmers is more of an accurate statement. Thieves have a lot of stealth and disengage potential as well as mobility, isn’t too hard for them to single out the mesmer in a group fight and drop their health with a steal combo.

Also in duels, a D/D thief can just CnD off of your clones until they land a backstab, pretty much as many times as they want. You can catch em with a shatter but it can be difficult. It is even more difficult for S/D thieves, they just teleport all over the place and daze you. It is a really tough match up for shatter mesmers for sure in this current meta.

It also doesn’t help when thieves “steal” Consume Plasma from us. If I played thief, I’d single out the Mesmer as well. We give them an Elite skill!

Really, I think if Consume plasma was changed so that it was a “random” 5 boons instead of EVERY BOON, then it wouldn’t be so one-sided. Mesmers have to live with “random” in all their skills, it makes sense that a skill “stolen” from a Mesmer should also be “random”.

Is there any other profession that can get EVERY BOON for 10 seconds in one skill?

Engineer prolly

Ranger.

Sandrox.9524:

killahmayne.9518:

I think thieves countering shatter mesmers is more of an accurate statement. Thieves have a lot of stealth and disengage potential as well as mobility, isn’t too hard for them to single out the mesmer in a group fight and drop their health with a steal combo.

Also in duels, a D/D thief can just CnD off of your clones until they land a backstab, pretty much as many times as they want. You can catch em with a shatter but it can be difficult. It is even more difficult for S/D thieves, they just teleport all over the place and daze you. It is a really tough match up for shatter mesmers for sure in this current meta.

You know what to do against those ride the CnD thieves? 3 izerkers and you in the middle.(AND DO NOT SHATTER),and if you have mantra od distraction,you have a dead thief.

lol, and how long does it take to summon 3 izerkers? 50 seconds? And this isn’t assuming the thief is smart enough to kill the phantasms and you never dodge because your clones will override the phantasms. And in a group fight what are the chances of even having more than 1 zerker alive at one time? And you are really taking mantra of distraction? Over something like portal or the condition removal mantra? Or decoy?

witcher.3197:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’m confused by this “hardcountered by Thieves” thing though because if you open up with a stealth and use that to set up you can pretty much one shot them become they have a chance to react. Sure if you get ambushed you might be screwed but if you save your Chaos Storm for defensive use all the aegis will keep you going. This is an actual game btw not duels, I don’t really worry about duel balance.

Shatter mes heavily relies on positioning and making gap with blink/phase retreat, with these skills you can kite a lot. But then you meet an S/D thief with multiple teleports, one of those has no CD, and making gap becomes impossible (they don’t even need line of sight for any of their ports). Or watch the recent WTS qualifiers, Levin on D/P jumps at Helseth in a teamfight, Steal + backstab = rekt – in 1v1 you can somewhat predict the burst, but in a teamfight there is no way, if the burst’s coming from stealth, there is 0 counterplay. You can’t even heal if you survive a Steal because you will have an extremely long Poison.

Yah I can see that, though I think because of my strategy of escorting the home guy at the start and then showing up “late” to the mid fight with the intent of ambushing their damage dealer. I find that it’s good for intercepting those that rush your home to deny the cap.

DrDivine.5378:

shimmerless.4560:

I don’t think the OP is in danger of D/D Thieves since that weapon set sucks.

Would you say this build could take on a dps medi guardian? Or do you think they are also a counter due to immobilizes and their burst?

I don’t play double ranged that much but I rarely have any issues with DPS Guards, especially on NA where they don’t use scepter or hammer. That said it’s really a skill matchup, so of course it’s always possible to go toe to toe with them muffin.

It is just about patience, both with your defense (distortion or in my case sword #2) and your offense (many DPS Guards will use Shelter preemptively for the block, giving you ample room to burst).

The main threat from DPS Guard isn’t the burst so much as the constant burning. You also have much better disengage because their gap closers are less versatile and more valuable to them and you also have stealth.

killahmayne.9518:

Sandrox.9524:

killahmayne.9518:

I think thieves countering shatter mesmers is more of an accurate statement. Thieves have a lot of stealth and disengage potential as well as mobility, isn’t too hard for them to single out the mesmer in a group fight and drop their health with a steal combo.

Also in duels, a D/D thief can just CnD off of your clones until they land a backstab, pretty much as many times as they want. You can catch em with a shatter but it can be difficult. It is even more difficult for S/D thieves, they just teleport all over the place and daze you. It is a really tough match up for shatter mesmers for sure in this current meta.

You know what to do against those ride the CnD thieves? 3 izerkers and you in the middle.(AND DO NOT SHATTER),and if you have mantra od distraction,you have a dead thief.

lol, and how long does it take to summon 3 izerkers? 50 seconds? And this isn’t assuming the thief is smart enough to kill the phantasms and you never dodge because your clones will override the phantasms. And in a group fight what are the chances of even having more than 1 zerker alive at one time? And you are really taking mantra of distraction? Over something like portal or the condition removal mantra? Or decoy?

I didnt mean really for 3 izerkers, you can have duelist and a zerker or swordsman and zerker.zerker is important,cause of cripple.The point is that if you keep at least two phntasms the thief will eat dmg everytime he will get out of stealth,more so if he get dazed,and yes,I take decoy Mantra of distraction and blink.I use portal only in spvp,and you rarly see a d/d thief in spvp…and even so,when you on point is alot more easier to control them.The only thing is to avoid getting BACKstabbed that could be tricky.In wvw I played both ends(as a d/d thief and a mesmer) and played alot and i find it hard to kill phntasms while ignoring the mesmer itself…

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’ve only been playing Mes for a little bit now but after trying 4/4/6/0/0 lockdown then making the swap to 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter I feel like Shatter wins by a long shot. There were moments were you could get that perfect series of interrupts and your DPS rapidly increases…or I could just use the build that gives me a huge burst that can almost insta-gib unaware targets with an easy setup. It also lets you take Portal which is just crazy useful when it comes to battlefield mobility.

I’m confused by this “hardcountered by Thieves” thing though because if you open up with a stealth and use that to set up you can pretty much one shot them become they have a chance to react. Sure if you get ambushed you might be screwed but if you save your Chaos Storm for defensive use all the aegis will keep you going. This is an actual game btw not duels, I don’t really worry about duel balance.

I still need to work on clone placement though, if you group them up you’re medi guard food.

Mesmer running staff isn’t really hard countered by thiefs. Things where different when mesmer ran sp but staff has really help change things.

Sandrox.9524:

Double range is not because sword is not reliable.Double range is because ppl think that if the pros play it,they should.Sword is still very handy.And yes,mesmer CAN stay on point(unless outnumbered ofc).Mesmer+tank guard can destory worlds.

^^this /15chars.

Sandrox.9524:

I didnt mean really for 3 izerkers, you can have duelist and a zerker or swordsman and zerker.zerker is important,cause of cripple.

This topic is about GS/Staff, you do not have duelist or swordsman (you shouldn’t have that with anything btw).

3 izerkers and you in the middle.(AND DO NOT SHATTER)
(…)
The point is that if you keep at least two phntasms the thief will eat dmg everytime he will get out of stealth

Shortbow. He takes your phantasms down in 1-2 shots, not to mention that autoattack bounces, if you stand close to your clones the attack hits you, your clone and then you again. And it’s pretty easy to dodge iZerker and Warlock, he can do that too. After he’s done with your phantasms and a large portion of your hp, the thief will switch to main set and execute you, likely. Encouraging a shatter mes to play it like a phantasm build is a bad idea, you should look for an opportunity to burst the thief instead.

Plus you are assuming the thief isn’t s/d, in which case he does not even have to change sets, he can just use dagger 4 and fire procs to get rid of your phantasms.

And while a sword set instead of a staff is also pretty good, it drastically decreases your access to movement and positioning tools + you sacrifice a great AoE skill that could deny stomps and resses.

What Vincecontix said is half true and half not quite right the way I see it.

It is true that staff is strong against Thieves and most other glassy or sticky classes (like Elementalists). However, sword is also just as strong because it grants even more defense against melee-training.

In fact back in the day sword/focus + staff shatter was a difficult matchup for 25/30/0/0/15 Thieves. (Nagnag would consistently lose to Slowkin about 7 times out of 10). It’s worth noting that staff/sword shatter was also the only spec in the game that could threaten bunker Eles.

With regard to Thieves the weak link is greatsword, which is trivially evaded and provides little to no reliable defense beyond just pumping out more damage. Mesmers must also play with a hand tied behind their backs in sPvP because of the necessity of running portal. When you have three utilities instead of two it is possible to cleanse the steal poison or the root from panic strike which can make a world of difference. When you toss in the many nerfs to Mesmer sword and its offhands and the buffs to Trickery it’s why the matchup has become so inverted.

Yea I still think shatter mes is still countered by thief but not to the degree of running s/x. I didn’t mean thief’s doesn’t counter mesmer anymore.

witcher.3197:

Sandrox.9524:

I didnt mean really for 3 izerkers, you can have duelist and a zerker or swordsman and zerker.zerker is important,cause of cripple.

This topic is about GS/Staff, you do not have duelist or swordsman (you shouldn’t have that with anything btw).

3 izerkers and you in the middle.(AND DO NOT SHATTER)
(…)
The point is that if you keep at least two phntasms the thief will eat dmg everytime he will get out of stealth

Shortbow. He takes your phantasms down in 1-2 shots, not to mention that autoattack bounces, if you stand close to your clones the attack hits you, your clone and then you again. And it’s pretty easy to dodge iZerker and Warlock, he can do that too. After he’s done with your phantasms and a large portion of your hp, the thief will switch to main set and execute you, likely. Encouraging a shatter mes to play it like a phantasm build is a bad idea, you should look for an opportunity to burst the thief instead.

Plus you are assuming the thief isn’t s/d, in which case he does not even have to change sets, he can just use dagger 4 and fire procs to get rid of your phantasms.

And while a sword set instead of a staff is also pretty good, it drastically decreases your access to movement and positioning tools + you sacrifice a great AoE skill that could deny stomps and resses.

That is what happens when you only read half of the replies here.

We didnt spoke about gs/staff anymore,we spoke on mesmer vs d/d thief.

and the second thing you mentioned,Shotbow..again we spoke about thieves with d/d who just avoid you by CnD your illusions,so while it is true,to force thief switch to shortbow,it is what we want and hence proving my point.After that,you go play your shatter burst against helpless SB thief.

Sandrox.9524:

witcher.3197:

Sandrox.9524:

I didnt mean really for 3 izerkers, you can have duelist and a zerker or swordsman and zerker.zerker is important,cause of cripple.

This topic is about GS/Staff, you do not have duelist or swordsman (you shouldn’t have that with anything btw).

3 izerkers and you in the middle.(AND DO NOT SHATTER)
(…)
The point is that if you keep at least two phntasms the thief will eat dmg everytime he will get out of stealth

Shortbow. He takes your phantasms down in 1-2 shots, not to mention that autoattack bounces, if you stand close to your clones the attack hits you, your clone and then you again. And it’s pretty easy to dodge iZerker and Warlock, he can do that too. After he’s done with your phantasms and a large portion of your hp, the thief will switch to main set and execute you, likely. Encouraging a shatter mes to play it like a phantasm build is a bad idea, you should look for an opportunity to burst the thief instead.

Plus you are assuming the thief isn’t s/d, in which case he does not even have to change sets, he can just use dagger 4 and fire procs to get rid of your phantasms.

And while a sword set instead of a staff is also pretty good, it drastically decreases your access to movement and positioning tools + you sacrifice a great AoE skill that could deny stomps and resses.

That is what happens when you only read half of the replies here.

We didnt spoke about gs/staff anymore,we spoke on mesmer vs d/d thief.

and the second thing you mentioned,Shotbow..again we spoke about thieves with d/d who just avoid you by CnD your illusions,so while it is true,to force thief switch to shortbow,it is what we want and hence proving my point.After that,you go play your shatter burst against helpless SB thief.

I tend to get wrecked a lot by meditation guardians in 1v1 rooms, any advice on how to deal with them with this build?

DrDivine.5378:

I tend to get wrecked a lot by meditation guardians in 1v1 rooms, any advice on how to deal with them with this build?

You have to kite them out at the beginning of the fight, usually with greatsword auto attack and greatsword 3. Whittle down their health until you feel confident to engage. When they use their focus 5 skill back out and attack it till it is used as it can crit for 5k easily, and remember to count their judges intervention cooldown because that allows them to get whirling wrath on you easily. The key is patience and practice.

Meditation Guard as a build is very anti-zerker and is great at beating zerker classes, and the top meditation players are very good at abusing that. This means it is essential for us to kite until we can get a good burst on them, before they do the same to us.

Benjamin.8237:

DrDivine.5378:

I tend to get wrecked a lot by meditation guardians in 1v1 rooms, any advice on how to deal with them with this build?

You have to kite them out at the beginning of the fight, usually with greatsword auto attack and greatsword 3. Whittle down their health until you feel confident to engage. When they use their focus 5 skill back out and attack it till it is used as it can crit for 5k easily, and remember to count their judges intervention cooldown because that allows them to get whirling wrath on you easily. The key is patience and practice.

Meditation Guard as a build is very anti-zerker and is great at beating zerker classes, and the top meditation players are very good at abusing that. This means it is essential for us to kite until we can get a good burst on them, before they do the same to us.

They seem to be what I struggle with the most, even my celestial s/s lb warrior can give them a good fight, but it’s usually even and I’ll have to pop literally all my utilities

Now that I’ve had a few more days with Mesmer It does seem like Double Shatter is still superior, although I am admittedly not as good at is as CI because I started with that and the way you play it is pretty different. Being able to burst someone down almost instantly is crazy useful. I like the style of lockdown more but that requires the use of a Mantra which means no Portal which could make you much less useful.

Although, I gotta say Shatter is nowhere near as good at denying stomps. Between Power Block, Chaos Storm, and either Temporal Curtain or Magic Bullet you can be a real lifesaver. That being said a Hambow War can do the same thing whole being tankier (though much slower). It’s a sad trend that no matter what class I play in PvP I rarely get to play the role I want to on my class. I think I still wanna mess around with lockdown but I’m going to try something like this.