Guild Wars 2

How is mesmer doing currently? I was focusing on dueling spec for solo is it still good?

What specs are good for grouping? Im not sure if people are still doing dungeons but thats the kind of group content im thinking of at the moment.

It will be a little while before I can get the expansion does the new elite spec out perform the others?

Thank you.

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Fay.2357:

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Are you trolling me?

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Are you trolling me?

No, I’m dead serious. The amount of power creep introduced with HoT is massive.

In PvP you’ll get ripped a new one by pretty much every one of the meta classes. You’ll lack defense in pretty much any build you try to make, and you’ll really lack defense if you try and have enough offense.

In PvE, mesmer is as awful as it always has been because other classes can do anything we can but more. If I were trying to do a reasonably efficient run of any PvE content (fractals/raids…nobody runs dungeons), I would kick a mesmer from the group, they’re that bad. Chronomancer, however, is a powerful specialization that is best in slot for any PvE group. We’re able to share enormous amounts of quickness and alacrity to boost the capabilities of our teammates incredibly high.

In WvW, chrono gets a ton of aoe utility, cc, and damage that mesmer lacks. It’s still nowhere near as good at dealing aoe damage as an ele is, but it’s a lot better than mesmer is. You’ll still mainly be wanted for veil/portal, but you’ll at least be capable of some other stuff.

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Are you trolling me?

No, I’m dead serious. The amount of power creep introduced with HoT is massive.

In PvP you’ll get ripped a new one by pretty much every one of the meta classes. You’ll lack defense in pretty much any build you try to make, and you’ll really lack defense if you try and have enough offense.

In PvE, mesmer is as awful as it always has been because other classes can do anything we can but more. If I were trying to do a reasonably efficient run of any PvE content (fractals/raids…nobody runs dungeons), I would kick a mesmer from the group, they’re that bad. Chronomancer, however, is a powerful specialization that is best in slot for any PvE group. We’re able to share enormous amounts of quickness and alacrity to boost the capabilities of our teammates incredibly high.

In WvW, chrono gets a ton of aoe utility, cc, and damage that mesmer lacks. It’s still nowhere near as good at dealing aoe damage as an ele is, but it’s a lot better than mesmer is. You’ll still mainly be wanted for veil/portal, but you’ll at least be capable of some other stuff.

Mesmer was always good at pve, and im pretty sure mesmers have more cc then other classes and stealth better then thief, I dont know I dont see any posts saying this here and in fact people complain how they are op all the time atleast when I played before.

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Are you trolling me?

No, I’m dead serious. The amount of power creep introduced with HoT is massive.

In PvP you’ll get ripped a new one by pretty much every one of the meta classes. You’ll lack defense in pretty much any build you try to make, and you’ll really lack defense if you try and have enough offense.

In PvE, mesmer is as awful as it always has been because other classes can do anything we can but more. If I were trying to do a reasonably efficient run of any PvE content (fractals/raids…nobody runs dungeons), I would kick a mesmer from the group, they’re that bad. Chronomancer, however, is a powerful specialization that is best in slot for any PvE group. We’re able to share enormous amounts of quickness and alacrity to boost the capabilities of our teammates incredibly high.

In WvW, chrono gets a ton of aoe utility, cc, and damage that mesmer lacks. It’s still nowhere near as good at dealing aoe damage as an ele is, but it’s a lot better than mesmer is. You’ll still mainly be wanted for veil/portal, but you’ll at least be capable of some other stuff.

Mesmer was always good at pve, and im pretty sure mesmers have more cc then other classes and stealth better then thief, I dont know I dont see any posts saying this here and in fact people complain how they are op all the time atleast when I played before.

You’ve got some heavily rose-tinted glasses there regarding mesmer in the past. Mesmer has always been a pure utility pick in PvE for some niche things it could do, outclassed heavily in dps by everyone else. With HoT, those niche things can be done by half of the other classes in the game, and mesmer is simply not needed. Chrono now brings the heavy utility that everyone wants.

Mesmer has decent cc. Other classes have just as much, and often in more usable forms.

The idea that mesmer stealths better than a thief is both absurd and mostly beside the point, I’m not sure how that single fact would make the class worth playing.

Yeah, people complained about mesmer being op all the time, but that doesn’t mean it actually ever was op. Mesmer has always been a class that is very difficult for bad/stupid players to fight, so you see those players complaining about mesmers constantly.

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Are you trolling me?

No, I’m dead serious. The amount of power creep introduced with HoT is massive.

In PvP you’ll get ripped a new one by pretty much every one of the meta classes. You’ll lack defense in pretty much any build you try to make, and you’ll really lack defense if you try and have enough offense.

In PvE, mesmer is as awful as it always has been because other classes can do anything we can but more. If I were trying to do a reasonably efficient run of any PvE content (fractals/raids…nobody runs dungeons), I would kick a mesmer from the group, they’re that bad. Chronomancer, however, is a powerful specialization that is best in slot for any PvE group. We’re able to share enormous amounts of quickness and alacrity to boost the capabilities of our teammates incredibly high.

In WvW, chrono gets a ton of aoe utility, cc, and damage that mesmer lacks. It’s still nowhere near as good at dealing aoe damage as an ele is, but it’s a lot better than mesmer is. You’ll still mainly be wanted for veil/portal, but you’ll at least be capable of some other stuff.

Mesmer was always good at pve, and im pretty sure mesmers have more cc then other classes and stealth better then thief, I dont know I dont see any posts saying this here and in fact people complain how they are op all the time atleast when I played before.

You’ve got some heavily rose-tinted glasses there regarding mesmer in the past. Mesmer has always been a pure utility pick in PvE for some niche things it could do, outclassed heavily in dps by everyone else. With HoT, those niche things can be done by half of the other classes in the game, and mesmer is simply not needed. Chrono now brings the heavy utility that everyone wants.

Mesmer has decent cc. Other classes have just as much, and often in more usable forms.

The idea that mesmer stealths better than a thief is both absurd and mostly beside the point, I’m not sure how that single fact would make the class worth playing.

Yeah, people complained about mesmer being op all the time, but that doesn’t mean it actually ever was op. Mesmer has always been a class that is very difficult for bad/stupid players to fight, so you see those players complaining about mesmers constantly.

Except im not wearing any rose tinted glasses here, the forums have been complaining about mesmers for a very long time and I know they where op before and needed some nerfs, I just checked back some pages and I can bump it back up I suppose but there are allot of good points why the changes where needed, I think people just want the op ness back. Mesmers where farily easy to play in an op way when I played before.

Let me be blunt: you’re completely wrong in every way.

Ryou.2398:

Except im not wearing any rose tinted glasses here, the forums have been complaining about mesmers for a very long time

Have the forums been complaining about mesmers since the start of the game? Yes. Have the forums been right about this? Rarely.

Ryou.2398:

and I know they where op before and needed some nerfs,

There was a period shortly after HoT was released where chronomancer was exceedingly strong in PvP, far too strong. It was nerfed (overnerfed), and that’s been resolved. Prior to that point, mesmers were literally never op in PvP since the very launch of the game.

Ryou.2398:

I just checked back some pages and I can bump it back up I suppose but there are allot of good points why the changes where needed, I think people just want the op ness back.

The posts you’ve been seeing are almost definitely from when chronobunker was overpowered in PvP. This, as I mentioned, has since been nerfed and is no longer an issue.

Ryou.2398:

Mesmers where farily easy to play in an op way when I played before.

Yeah…there’s not really much I can say to this except you’re wrong. That statement has literaly never been true except for 3ish months after the release of HoT.

Well see, im sure someone has unbiased objective points of views they can give.

To say a Mesmer in WvW is bad is just wrong. I am on T1, and my pu condition mesmer survives just fine. With any class, its simply how you play it. For me, I will fight one on one, even two on one, three on one can be tuff, the trick is, know when to fight, and when to stealth out and retreat.

Just takes practice. To tell anyone any class is not good in WvW is misinformation. Its not the class, its how you play it. Its how you set it up to best match your game style. I love my condition pu mesmer, and I have beaten, and had my butt handed to me by all the classes. Play what works best for you, Have fun, you will get ganked, and you will gank others. In the end, its just a game, you learn from every fight.

I can try to be less pessimistic and more realistic than Fay, but to be fair, he’s pretty right albeit on his usual over-dramatic tone.

The power creep of HoT is really really severe. So the situation is:

• open world PvE in core zones still work as before (though other classes do it better)
• you don’t have the new zones so it does not matter, but they are more challenging and the AOE and defenses chronomancer brings are quite helpful
• Don’t try PvP. You may have a chance playing a PU condi build, but you will not be nearly as effective as with chronomancer.
• roaming in PvP is probably the best spot for core mesmer, again as a PU condi. Essentially condi PU has always been one of the best roaming build, so even after power creep, it works, but not nearly as “easy” as before.
• big WvW fights have never been the strong point of mesmer, even less now. On the other hand, chrono does actually bring things to the table.

So as you can see, this is almost a edulcorated formulation of what Fay is saying. Playing without expac is really not an easy task because all core classes (mesmer is not unique) have been massively outgunned.

Ryou.2398:

Well see, im sure someone has unbiased objective points of views they can give.

You asked for an answer and you got it. What more do you want, a pat on the back with someone whispering in your ear saying “everything is okay”?

Core mesmer simply cannot function at all anywhere and if someone had the audacity to bring that core dps build a couple months back ago into any raid without Chronomancer I would guild kick them, not party kick.

Fay is right. He’s not pessimistic either, rather pragmatic.

Anyway, Tym, WvW can be played in many ways. Roaming, anyone can do. It’s basicaly dueling and has next to no impact on the competitiveness of WvW. Small man, can have some value but it’s minor, Mesmer functions in small groups. Large scale, arguably the only part that matters, and the default when people talk about “WvW”, Mesmer is trash. Always has been, always will. Chrono on the other hand has a few things to offer.

From my experience Mesmer in pvp can still be vialable, U just need to use condi or hybrid build with mercenary amulet. Sure U probably will not come to legendary and it’s true that chrono is more powerful but it’s not so terrible as everyone say.

And U still can by hard counter to power revs (dunno why they are so easy to kill with condi mes) and thiefs.

I love night capping Alpine garrison with my old guild (5-6 men small group) as mesmer back in the days. I’ve tried many builds with my mesmer but I always come back to full power shatter. And I must say, PU or non-PU, core mesmer is restricted to roaming and small scale battles.

Condi PU is excellent in survival and gives you enough time to run when fight isn’t in your favor, but you’ll be in even more disadvantage than full power if you face any guild group or 3+ pugs that knows the basics of condi cleansing rotations. Especially since every small group nowadays will have ele/guard that keeps the group alive from condi damage, you’ll realise you spent most time running around the map for 15-30 min just to look for a decent 1v1 or 1v2. I’ve been there in solo roaming and I must say its not a very efficient use of your time.

And no, not every core build is suitable for roaming, regardless of player skills. Roaming is more about escaping bad situations than just dueling. Power ranger is a prime example, there are so many power rangers around it baffled my mind so much. It doesn’t matter how well you can duel if you run a build that lacks running potential, you’ll die a lot. Same goes for roaming necro and guardian but they have good roles in larger WvW battles.

Isnt the point of pvp working with your groups anyways? No class is meant to be be viable with multiple classes in an mmorpg ever.

Ryou.2398:

Isnt the point of pvp working with your groups anyways? No class is meant to be be viable with multiple classes in an mmorpg ever.

Of course the point is working with a group, but if one member of the group is performing horribly (that would be the mesmer), then the entire group will suffer as a result.

Sorry I may have misinterpret this, but if you’re saying that multiclass mmorpg isn’t meant to have individual classes that are sufficient by itself, then GW2 is a very bad game

Unfortunately current PvP meta is full of bruiser builds that one build can filled most vitals roles in a battle, they can sustain and deal sufficient sustain damage that most glass specs are being pushed out. The main reason you see 5 different classes in Pro League is because of the no stacking rule.

Back to core mesmer, know that in PvP it is inevitable that you’ll face elite specs. And currently all elite specs ARE better than their core counterparts, even warrior though not by a mile like others. I’m not sure why you find that enjoyable but I can suggest some builds that allow you to survive.
Staff/Scepter+torch with Dueling/Chaos/Illusion is the standard old PU condi. You can survive quite well but don’t expect to do much in team fight.
GS/Sword+torch with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for power variant or Dueling/Chaos/Inspiration if you find condi is chewing you up.

If you’re confident about your skill, try
GS/Sword+torch or GS/Staff with Domination/Dueling/Illusion for full power shatter.
Staff/Sword+focus or Staff/Sword+pistol with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for full interrupt build.

Note all the builds listed above are rather outdated, despite they shine in the past. You should probably expect people to do better with elite spec while spending significantly less effort than you.

pico.6402:

And U still can by hard counter to power revs (dunno why they are so easy to kill with condi mes)

Because they have no cleanse so without Malyx revs are useless against any condi build.

Doesn’t help that most PvP players seem to think condis should be something that you ignore so when most revs get a stack of confusion on them they probably respond by changing to Shiro and auto attacking themselves to death.

Ryou.2398:

Isnt the point of pvp working with your groups anyways? No class is meant to be be viable with multiple classes in an mmorpg ever.

And that my friend is the reason standard mesmer is complete trash in SPvP. You are by no means able to survive without a lot of stealth play (PU/Decoy/Torch) and once u run this build you won’t be able to bring a lot of utitlity for your team.

altough i think you can bring some things to the team with condi pressure MoA and Portal you are by no means a “great” addition to a pvp comp as base mesmer.
GW2 has always been about skill and outplay. you can make any build work as long as your skilllevel is much higher than your enemies.

That said tough most (If not all) Elite-Specs are straight out better than their baseline. And Chrono is the biggest improvent out of all of them. think of all the old builds and you find that most builds are focused on 2 Lines only (PowerShatterMesmer = Domi+Duel, PU = Illu+Chaos) and chrono is just the perfect addition to all “Oldschool” mesmer builds.

U don’t need PU if U take inspiration.
From beginning of S2 I’m amazed how it’s easy to survive with it.

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Sorry I may have misinterpret this, but if you’re saying that multiclass mmorpg isn’t meant to have individual classes that are sufficient by itself, then GW2 is a very bad game

Unfortunately current PvP meta is full of bruiser builds that one build can filled most vitals roles in a battle, they can sustain and deal sufficient sustain damage that most glass specs are being pushed out. The main reason you see 5 different classes in Pro League is because of the no stacking rule.

Back to core mesmer, know that in PvP it is inevitable that you’ll face elite specs. And currently all elite specs ARE better than their core counterparts, even warrior though not by a mile like others. I’m not sure why you find that enjoyable but I can suggest some builds that allow you to survive.
Staff/Scepter+torch with Dueling/Chaos/Illusion is the standard old PU condi. You can survive quite well but don’t expect to do much in team fight.
GS/Sword+torch with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for power variant or Dueling/Chaos/Inspiration if you find condi is chewing you up.

If you’re confident about your skill, try
GS/Sword+torch or GS/Staff with Domination/Dueling/Illusion for full power shatter.
Staff/Sword+focus or Staff/Sword+pistol with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for full interrupt build.

Note all the builds listed above are rather outdated, despite they shine in the past. You should probably expect people to do better with elite spec while spending significantly less effort than you.

If all elite specs are better then any regular specs then whats the point? That is zero build diversity, im iffy about people saying this people will get bored being shohorned into one spec for every class.

Ryou.2398:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Sorry I may have misinterpret this, but if you’re saying that multiclass mmorpg isn’t meant to have individual classes that are sufficient by itself, then GW2 is a very bad game

Unfortunately current PvP meta is full of bruiser builds that one build can filled most vitals roles in a battle, they can sustain and deal sufficient sustain damage that most glass specs are being pushed out. The main reason you see 5 different classes in Pro League is because of the no stacking rule.

Back to core mesmer, know that in PvP it is inevitable that you’ll face elite specs. And currently all elite specs ARE better than their core counterparts, even warrior though not by a mile like others. I’m not sure why you find that enjoyable but I can suggest some builds that allow you to survive.
Staff/Scepter+torch with Dueling/Chaos/Illusion is the standard old PU condi. You can survive quite well but don’t expect to do much in team fight.
GS/Sword+torch with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for power variant or Dueling/Chaos/Inspiration if you find condi is chewing you up.

If you’re confident about your skill, try
GS/Sword+torch or GS/Staff with Domination/Dueling/Illusion for full power shatter.
Staff/Sword+focus or Staff/Sword+pistol with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for full interrupt build.

Note all the builds listed above are rather outdated, despite they shine in the past. You should probably expect people to do better with elite spec while spending significantly less effort than you.

If all elite specs are better then any regular specs then whats the point? That is zero build diversity, im iffy about people saying this people will get bored being shohorned into one spec for every class.

No kidding. That’s sorta the point.

Ryou.2398:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Sorry I may have misinterpret this, but if you’re saying that multiclass mmorpg isn’t meant to have individual classes that are sufficient by itself, then GW2 is a very bad game

Unfortunately current PvP meta is full of bruiser builds that one build can filled most vitals roles in a battle, they can sustain and deal sufficient sustain damage that most glass specs are being pushed out. The main reason you see 5 different classes in Pro League is because of the no stacking rule.

Back to core mesmer, know that in PvP it is inevitable that you’ll face elite specs. And currently all elite specs ARE better than their core counterparts, even warrior though not by a mile like others. I’m not sure why you find that enjoyable but I can suggest some builds that allow you to survive.
Staff/Scepter+torch with Dueling/Chaos/Illusion is the standard old PU condi. You can survive quite well but don’t expect to do much in team fight.
GS/Sword+torch with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for power variant or Dueling/Chaos/Inspiration if you find condi is chewing you up.

If you’re confident about your skill, try
GS/Sword+torch or GS/Staff with Domination/Dueling/Illusion for full power shatter.
Staff/Sword+focus or Staff/Sword+pistol with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for full interrupt build.

Note all the builds listed above are rather outdated, despite they shine in the past. You should probably expect people to do better with elite spec while spending significantly less effort than you.

If all elite specs are better then any regular specs then whats the point? That is zero build diversity, im iffy about people saying this people will get bored being shohorned into one spec for every class.

Yes, many of use feel robbed. Elite specs were meant to add diversity and did exactly the opposite. For example guardians cannot play bunker support anymore, they are forced to play a medi-guard with traps and are still only bottom tier with it (though great to kill players who do not know how to counter it).

I agree with Fey, Mesmer is garbage, Chrono is good and balanced. Mesmer has always only been a skipper with portal action, otherwise it was and still is a horrible profession that need tons of love to be balanced.

Ryou.2398:

Mesmer was always good at pve, and im pretty sure mesmers have more cc then other classes

I lol’d. Mesmers have situational CC and high risk. Even stealth chrono is falling behind in roaming WvW.

Actually, I take that back. It makes no sense to say anything about a game mode that doesn’t exist.

Ryou.2398:

… in fact people complain how they are op all the time atleast when I played before.

Yeah, people used to complain. A lot. But it wasn’t because PU mesmer was OP (even if it was briefly OP). It was because PU mesmer was annoying—and that’s what made it successful. Now PU builds are really only at a fraction of their former annoyingness, but people still complain (even though thieves do it better).

Walk slowy to Ryou.2398, give him a pat on the back and whispering softly in his ear saying “everything is okay”.

Why not just bring you “best of the best” build and it try out in pvp or wvw? even better yet raid! People will adore you and asking for more!

You obviously had already formed an opinion of your own, you don’t need second experience from other, just go and try out.

You guys need to chill obviously I read the criticisms and replied with more I didnt say anyone was wrong, your getting way to defensive.

Ryou.2398:

You guys need to chill obviously I read the criticisms and replied with more I didnt say anyone was wrong, your getting way to defensive.

Oh?

Ryou.2398:

Well see, im sure someone has unbiased objective points of views they can give.

Call me touchy, but it sure seems like you were saying I was wrong. Not to mention your other posts all telling me that clearly everything I was saying was wrong.

There’s nothing wrong with disagreeing, but I’m not a fan of revisionist history.

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

You guys need to chill obviously I read the criticisms and replied with more I didnt say anyone was wrong, your getting way to defensive.

Oh?

Ryou.2398:

Well see, im sure someone has unbiased objective points of views they can give.

Call me touchy, but it sure seems like you were saying I was wrong. Not to mention your other posts all telling me that clearly everything I was saying was wrong.

There’s nothing wrong with disagreeing, but I’m not a fan of revisionist history.

And what do you call me later reply? Stop being over senstitive. And I never said you where wrong I told you about my experiences and remained skeptical, what do you get upset everytime someone tells you your wrong and this is how you react? You dont see anything wrong with that? You got all huffy because you thought someone was telling you that you where wrong.