Guild Wars 2

Started off by having a nice leisurely walk through the eternal battlegrounds, laughing at all the people rushing around with those motion blur lines behind them, as if their was somewhere important to be. Can’t they enjoy walking at a normal place?

After about an hour I finally caught up to the group of people I was looking for as they were attacking their 10th keep. ‘Great’ I thought ‘now I can unleash the Mesmer secret weapon’ and proceeded to unleash the obstruction! Good thing they nerfed shattered strength or I might have done some boon sharing support instead of constantly setting off my berserker cooldown for no reason.

After the keep succumbed to my barrage of floating obstructed messages it was our turn to defend from the third side. There as I stood on the wall I kept getting hit by giant fireballs, grenades and arrow barrages. I feel sorry for these poor other classes, forever doomed to actually be able to attack a keeps defenders, not knowing the joys of sitting in a Zerg wondering why you logged in today.

Well my usual siege routine goes like this.
Chaos storm on the rams or golems bashing the door, feedbackbubble where appropriate, and try to pull someone off the wall if i’m not too lazy to switch my offhand.
Then 20 seconds of dodging arrowcarts and making our zerg look bigger with the dodgeclones :p

Levetty.1279:

… complains about bad spec, only full burst shatter specs allowed …

… complains about weapon selection, “I need my sword so I can shatter, and have you SEEN the berzerker’s big numbers?”

… complains about inability to use utilities besides those that stunbreak and generate more clones for shatters, because omg have you seen those videos?…

You can bring a ton of utility to a zerg. Some examples:

1. Signet of Inspiration is awesome, because it lets you buff friends. Combine with runes and Sigils and Inspiration Traits to let you give your roaming team huge buffs that let them take on teams larger than themselves.
2. Mass Invisibility and Veil are awesome in so many situations. Help people do supply runs by covering them and keeping them stealthed so teams in the keeps don’t callout supply runners and direct raids. A single well-placed veil and a coordinated team can make it easy to take out a team twice as big as yours.
3. Feedback is amazing in WvW, it affects a LOT of things. Illusionary Warden is amazing in WvW, it affects a lot of things.
4. Temporal Curtain is amazing in WvW, letting you help move your team and letting you yank people off walls at least as as well as any Engineer can. Better, in many cases.
5. Your ability to generate clones is itself amazing in WvW. Just 2 mesmers at a gate crashing party can easily make a small group appear much larger and delay counter-attacks.

Mesmers complaining about WvW siege utility becuase they cannot cheese out LoS anymore makes me so bored. Sorry you can’t press a button and go make tea anymore; you’re going to have to work at breaking defenses like the rest of us. Mesmers are also still the single most powerful siege breaking class in WvW even after the portal nerf. After every keep capture everyone must meticulously scour the fortress for Mesmers or risk having the keep taken without a siege.

So seriously. Go do something meaningful in the zerg and stop complaining.

KirinDave.6451:

General elitism, insulting and trolling.

Congratulations on writing the worst post in the history of these forums, I wish I had something I could give you.

Favourite bit has to be that casting berserker on top of keeps is ‘cheese’ but Barrage, grenade spam and Eles aoes are pro. Nice.

Other highlights are presuming to know my build, calling the imaginary build you have in your mind crap, and not actually reading my post. Oh and you even managed to fit in a ‘Mesmers have portal so all their problems are non existent’ point. Bravo.

Levetty.1279:

Congratulations on writing the worst post in the history of these forums, I wish I had something I could give you.

Don’t you have something interesting to say? Let’s see. Scroll down…

Levetty.1279:

Favourite bit has to be that casting berserker on top of keeps is ‘cheese’ but Barrage, grenade spam and Eles aoes are pro. Nice.

Um, grenade spam has been nerfed. Hard. Keep up with the patch notes. And uh, the AoE? All the hitboxes have been reduced in size. Keep up with the patch notes.

Levetty.1279:

‘Mesmers have portal so all their problems are non existent’ point. Bravo.

Not what I said. I said Mesmers bring a massive amount of utility to a WvW siege party. Mesmers bring a massive amount of utility. And you’re upset because you can’t do fire and forget damage on objects and NPCs. You have multiple group stealths, multiple group buffs, the ability to turn any self-buff-stacking trick into a group-buff-stacking trick, good damage, an incredibly good pull/knockdown tool, the best AoE swiftness tool in the game, the best team ultimate in the game. There are literally no ultimates anyone has to match timewarp. The fact that you can also timewarp and also give everyone all buffs for 6 seconds without a single trait point allocated is also pretty insane.

I don’t know what your build is, but I do know what your class can do. Very few classes can approach the utility that a Mesmer can provide to a raiding group, and you don’t need to sacrifice small-unit combat viability to bring it like a banner warrior does, you just need to re-equip.

If you cannot see this, then WvW is probably not for you. Mesmers are fine in WvW. They just don’t post the obscene numbers on keep defenders they used to. And that’s fine, because you’ve got better things to be doing anyways.

But feel free to keep repeating the same, “Lol you don’t understand” stuff. This post is not really directed at you. It’s directed at other people who read these forums and wonder if you’re right. They will then read this exchange and realize you actually have no real argument against what I just said, and what I just said is pretty kitten accurate, and dismiss you as another entitled mesmer player.

You are so arrogant and obviously trolling it is really dragging this whole thread down so I am not going to bother responding to you after this. I will also ask you to leave the thread so some constructive conversation can take place.

I’m sure you love having a Mesmer follow you around for some group invisibility or quickness but I am talking about actually playing one, specifically getting around and attacking keeps. These are not fun, they are the slowest class in the game made even worse because we are talking about a mode that desperately needs either mounts or more waypoints, they have been the only class where they have had their main aoe not work on a wall. Why can every other class attack the top of the wall but Mesmers cant? Why did they have their phantasm mechanics specifically changed so that they couldn’t do this (a massive negative change in all modes of play due to the stupid obstructed bugs and lets not even get into how they are the only class that can have their summons blocked)? Engineers had Grenades nerfed because they did way too much damage for a spamable aoe and had sigil effects added to them, they needed nerfing. They still have a spamable aoe that can keep keep walls clear as enemies back away from the damage and the other effects 2-5 do. Why haven’t all AoEs been blocked from the top of walls if Berserker was so bad?

As I said I am sure you love having Mesmers around to use their gimmicky, high cooldown skills to help you do stuff in your little supply running/camp capturing bubble but if you want to talk about that then make a thread about that. That isn’t what the thread is about. I didn’t play this game so I can be a Portal/MI/Timewarp bot for other players, I play it to try and have fun but apparently Mesmer’s aren’t meant to be used for all aspects of the game.

Oh wait we have portal, that fixes everything.

Levetty.1279:

Why can every other class attack the top of the wall but Mesmers cant?

Cannot hear you over the bucket of necro tears sloshing around at my feet. That class is slower and has a harder time doing things during a siege. Warrior isn’t very fun either.

Levetty.1279:

Why did they have their phantasm mechanics specifically changed so that they couldn’t do this (a massive negative change in all modes of play due to the stupid obstructed bugs and lets not even get into how they are the only class that can have their summons blocked)?

As a trade off, phantasms have the best (practical) attack rate, AI, and recharge time of any indirect source of damage in the game. Seriously, they’re better even than Guardian weapons. Way better than Engineer turrets, Necro minions, or Elementalist summons. About the worst that can be said is that sometimes they get you into combat when you don’t want to, but every summon and aoe class has that problem.

Levetty.1279:

Engineers had Grenades nerfed because they did way too much damage for a spamable aoe and had sigil effects added to them, they needed nerfing. They still have a spamable aoe that can keep keep walls clear as enemies back away from the damage and the other effects 2-5 do.

No one is afraid of grenade spam anymore. It no longer does significant damage. Smart engineers do not spam grenades at players; they keep the toolkit around for pulls into nail fields followed by knockdowns to try and kill the player. This actually makes a difference rather than posting big numbers.

Only one class can still do what mesmers used to do, and that’s Rangers. It is not likely they will continue to be able to do that Nature’s Ninja stuff much longer, and ANet has already said they’re going to reduce the power of AoE in general to make it line up with the actual opportunity cost of the abilities.

Levetty.1279:

As I said I am sure you love having Mesmers around to use their gimmicky, high cooldown skills to help you do stuff in your little supply running/camp capturing bubble but if you want to talk about that then make a thread about that. That isn’t what the thread is about. Maybe giving them something to do in the mean time won’t be so bad.

Mesmer’s have reliable access to even more than I’ve described. They’re actually awesome keep defenders when appropriately traited, too! They have a TON of access to ranged reflection on reasonable cooldowns, which means mesmers can collaborate with guardians and necros to make breaking a gate even harder.

I’ve decided to make Mesmer my next main after my Engineer fell apart as a profession, and my server takes WvW pretty seriously (we’re trying to break into the top 10). So I’ve been carefully studying what they can do. It’s an impressive list. He is not yet L80, but I have a few hundred kills with him him WvW and over 50 games in PvP as I have evaluated the class. I am not an expert, but you do not need to be one to see mesmer potential.

Oh wait we have portal, that fixes everything.

I’ve mentioned portal once, because it’s a good skill. It’s hardly the alpha and omega of what a Mesmer brings to a group. Very, very few classes are as good in WvW as mesmer, and I submit no class has the potential to contribute in so many ways without a respec.

Ironvos.9014:

Then 20 seconds of dodging arrowcarts and making our zerg look bigger with the dodgeclones :p

Win.

Also for some reason Mesmers just using their normal auto attacks get obstructed when attacking those on the tower walls while other classes don’t get obstructed and can hit their opponents.

It has been demonstrated that mesmer has more LoS issues than most classes. None of our attacks can hit anything on the top of a wall accept for Chaos Storm (Meh damage, mainly a defensive tool), mind stab (lol, pitiful), and mirror blade (occasionally). But nothing is done about it because, well, we’re mesmers. Everyone is too busy crying to have us nerfed into the ground to acknowledge our problems.

I don’t even siege anymore. I just roam and take camps. Do I get less XP, karma, and cash? Yeah. Should I? Of course, I’ve got portal.

Levetty.1279:

These are not fun, they are the slowest class in the game made even worse because we are talking about a mode that desperately needs either mounts or more waypoints, they have been the only class where they have had their main aoe not work on a wall.

I missed the memo that it’s not supposed to be fun.

Chaos Storm does work on a wall. It’s better than the confetti otherwise known as Barrage, touted as a siege skill for rangers, that you can just outright ignore – but the only class that can do serious damage to things on walls is a fire ele anyway.

Maybe I enjoy it because I picked the class as something that requires thinking to use. I was wrong about it being a requirement, by the sheer number of terrible shatter burst mesmers out there, but I’m happy to switch weapons and utilities every so often to something that’s going to be useful in the situation. Time Warp, Feedback, scepter/focus, staff alt weapon.

KirinDave.6451:

You can bring a ton of utility to a zerg.

Unfortunately “utility” doesn’t win you badges — tagging with lots of DPS does. That’s the life in a zerg.

In a siege we’re good for:

1. feedback someone on the walls
2. pull someone from the walls (never gets old, although it’s harder to do now that most players prepare for it — still a noob killer tho).
3. defending the flanks
4. looking for stragglers running for the keep to get inside

We really can’t hit anyone standing on top of the walls, but a few of the other classes have the same problem.

juno.1840:

KirinDave.6451:

You can bring a ton of utility to a zerg.

Unfortunately “utility” doesn’t win you badges — tagging with lots of DPS does. That’s the life in a zerg.

I actually agree with you. This is sort of depressing. I hope Anet fixes that. Because what you do to get your server to up rank in WvW and win the cycle is very different from what you do to get badges, and that’s too bad.

Yeah, that’s a problem that plagues a lot of the pve and wvwvw content of the game, especially the big DEs and map bosses that Anet was so proud of in development. What needs to happen is partial (%) tagging for buffs applied to any ally that hits the target with any skill. So if I heal/boon/remove conditions on anyone that hits the target, I get a % chance to get a drop. Is this overcompensating? Depends on the % chance, which should be smaller than a full tag, but cumulative for each buff on an ally. CC and damage on a target should always get a full tag.

agreed — probably something like a 20% chance as aoe support targets up to 5 players (although one is most likely to be yourself).

Barrage does no damage and chaos storm is better for attacking keeps? That is just blatantly false. As is Necros being the slowest class, Grenades not being useful to keep an area of a wall clear and Berserker on walls being any different from all the aoe ground targeting abuse on walls and through doors.

I agree with the buffing counting towards tagging thing as well., good idea. Also some ways to get more consistent buffs (like Shattered Strength between the December patch and the caving in to pvp whine) to make Signet of Inspiration active worthwhile. Throwing up phantasms for regen and then casting Time Warp on cooldown isn’t the most fun support options I have ever witnessed in a game.

Original poster is an unimaginative crybaby, I have no trouble coming up with tons of things to do either attacking or defending keeps/towers, the previous replies have already covered most of it. In siege I swap out offhand for focus, traits on my illusion and power tree for blinds/confusion on glamours and slot all glamour utilities. You can cast null field and feedback etc etc on walls, it’s mucho entertainment Otherwise lately I’ve pretty much been running Osi’s fun little hybrid build but with slightly different gears, great for running around in small groups wvw and for pve/dungeons.

Null field on walls? Yeah that might you just stripped of them will cause them to die. How are people so out of touch with how this game actually works?

Then again you started with an insult so you obviously had no intention of contributing to the conversation.

Null field is a glamour, glamour causes blind and confusion yo

Kazhiel.8194:

Null field is a glamour, glamour causes blind and confusion yo

Yes, might be good in sPvP or dungeons but it isn’t going to do anything in the grand scheme of things when attacking a keep.

Why is everyone so down on the Mesmer forums today? At any rate, I actually DO have a great time in WvW, whether I’m yanking people off of walls in a siege with my always on focus, or throwing Wardens into the Gate, or destroying Cannons on the walls with Chaos Storm, it’s always a good time. Most the time I actually enjoy being more helpful by distracting 10 to 15 enemies at a time by taking their camps by myself or with a small group. I don’t know what to tell ya Levetty.1279, it sounds like maybe you aren’t in touch with your inner Mesmer. You should try stroking that to life sometime, it gets big and you find yourself happier as you play to have fun rather than just get awesome loots.

Delofakitten.4231:

Why is everyone so down on the Mesmer forums today? At any rate, I actually DO have a great time in WvW, whether I’m yanking people off of walls in a siege with my always on focus, or throwing Wardens into the Gate, or destroying Cannons

Because it’s dam boring playing a mesmer when sieging. I want to kill people on walls as well – not just walls, gates and canons and things that don’t move. That’s pretty much PvE (yuck) and I didn’t come to WvW to do that. Heck, with a condition build I can’t even do that lol.

All they really need to do is fix the Los issue. If I see you, I should be able to kill you.

If it was possible to kill everyone you can see on a wall it would make defending pretty much impossible, you wouldn’t be able to stand on a wall at all. Also, you have to remember just because we can see something from our nifty floating camera angle doesn’t mean your char would from their point of view lol

Kazhiel.8194:

If it was possible to kill everyone you can see on a wall it would make defending pretty much impossible, you wouldn’t be able to stand on a wall at all. Also, you have to remember just because we can see something from our nifty floating camera angle doesn’t mean your char would from their point of view lol

But the other classes can still attack the top of keep walls with aoe and they aren’t one shotting everybody who is there.

lol. I’m sure I could if I zoomed in and panned my camera up haha :p

But I guess that’s the whole buggy LoS issue everyone’s been complaining about for a while. Who knows when it’ll be fixed…

They could easily fix this issue by allowing us, poor mesmers, to blink through walls…

^_^

Guys… we have ether bolt… its a 900 range arcing projectile that can hit people on walls. :O

But, seriously I feel the OP that most of the time I’m just leaving clones around and attempting to pull people off walls/siege weapons with Into the Void.

:O ahhhhh so sceptre 1 does have a use! There we go.

I really had to think before i remembered what ether bolt was.
Seems like it’s been a while i equipped a scepter

I had a really great time. Walls get in the way. Take 2 people and go camp capping/yak slapping. Its great when you run with a staff ele that is not upleveled that dies before you in a fight and then it takes the ranger, engineer, and another els 2 more minutes to bring you down… Oh its great… reallllyyy great. WvW is fun.

People arguing that Mesmers aren’t useless at attacking a keep/tower have clearly not played Mesmer after the LoS “fix”. Not only did they make it so you can’t hit things on walls now, the Mesmer’s LoS seemingly comes from their feet and won’t hit anyone if their feet are obstructed. I can see a defender from the knees up and still be obstructed. What kind of crap is that? No other class suffers during an offensive siege like the Mesmer.

Defense is a bit different, as you can land most all of your attacks with a GS from a wall, but that’s it.

Levetty.1279:

Kazhiel.8194:

If it was possible to kill everyone you can see on a wall it would make defending pretty much impossible, you wouldn’t be able to stand on a wall at all. Also, you have to remember just because we can see something from our nifty floating camera angle doesn’t mean your char would from their point of view lol

But the other classes can still attack the top of keep walls with aoe and they aren’t one shotting everybody who is there.

Mesmer also has a few aoes that can hit the top of the wall, it doesn’t mean we should be able to throw all our illusions/attacks up there.

Yea well it may be able to hit the top of the wall, chaos storm and feedback, but if they actually do anything usefull is a different matter.

Chaos storm barely does damage and has a small aoe, even if people get hit by it most they will do is walk a few meters to go out of it.
And feedback will usually do thesame, ranged attacker sees the bubble and may shoot once or twice and move out of the bubble.

Oh yea and there is temporal curtain, but as has been mentioned earlier, this doesn’t work aswell anymore as a few months ago, people now know they shouldn’t stand on the edge of the wall blasting their attacks down.

Then we’re back to dodging arrowcarts like a circusact :p

If they walk back to get out of the way then they aren’t near the edge of the wall where they can be hitting you lol

They can also just move sideways instead of backwards and still hit you

I find mesmers great fun in wvw but having ised all classes quite a lot during sieges I can definitely confirm that mesmers have way more LoS issues than the other classes. For those not playing a mesmer, it’s not that people want back the old “no LoS required” summoning (well, it would be fun but that was OP) but rather that almost every ranged attack except scepter and chaos storm is more likely to be obstructed than not. As was mentioned earlier, it seems to be the case that mesmer LoS is calculated from the feet so even the small difference of standing a but back on the wll will make mesmer attacks become obstructed while e.g. a warrior with a rifle can hit them just fine from the same angle.

Ironvos.9014:

They can also just move sideways instead of backwards and still hit you

Oh and they can’t do this to all the other AoEs? That is simply not a valid argument in the least.

pahldus.1678:

Ironvos.9014:

They can also just move sideways instead of backwards and still hit you

Oh and they can’t do this to all the other AoEs? That is simply not a valid argument in the least.

Well since in gw2 you can move and cast at thesame time it doesn’t really hamper the enemy on the walls of putting out damage to the people below.
Our aoe’s simply don’t cause a threat to anyone on a wall to make em dodge or run backwards to heal up, downing anyone is out of question :p

I’m not here to complain about our wvw abilities, we are great in 1v1 and small gangs.
But you honestly cant say a mesmer is any threat to people defending on a wall.

As a mez with over 900hrs on the belt, I have to say.
This thread is bullkitten, the only thing that could be seen as right.
Is that Mez is slow, and I do agree with this problem.
Now I dont have this problem, I can keep perma swift up.
However, still my build that I natural use should not be the only build out their.
Just because it the only one that as a side thing can give ya perma swift.

So it would be nice to have some more spd abilities, even if I would more then likely never use them.

I have recently switched to a glamour build for WvW and have found it to be very effective vs. zergs as well as attacking/defending keeps. The natural tendency of enemy players is to move out of the glamours, no matter if it’s in the open field or on top of a keep wall. Non-attentive players move through the fields, pick up stacks of confusion and then proceed to spam their skills……hurting themselves to the point they have to back off. Attentive players back off until confusion wears off, which keeps them from hitting us on the ground. Effective control for attacking and defending.

Out in the open I have dropped Chaos Storm, Null, Feedback and Time Warp into the middle of a zerg. That was a lot of fun to watch. The zerg broke apart as the they started to figure out what had happened. Our side then proceeded to wipe them in the ensuing confusion (pun intended).

So far it has been a fun departure from the other builds. However, I do smile every time I drag someone off the wall or off a cliff.