Guild Wars 2

So as all mesmers know, there isn’t many PvP builds that are at all viable, even so that people are forced to play PU, once they do, they receive hate messages because they’re finally somewhat viable. Anyhow my question is, why are anet nerfing critical infusion? this will effect nearly all mesmer builds around right now and not just the intended PU build they wanted to nerf. I personally play shatter mesmer, it is not at all strong and the fact anet are speculating over nerfing not only the survivability i have with vigor but also the crit damage (WvW/Pve only) makes me sick, i was also wondering if running double energy which shatter builds also HAVE to run will still be viable after patch due to all the upcoming sigil changes and internal CD’s.

The fact anet are nerfing an already dead profession makes me so mad, maybe if they actually logged and and played their game once in awhile they would realise the utter state PvP is in, why can’t anet hire skilled players to help them out? instead of having wild attempts at achieving balance. IF the patch notes which ive read are going through what on earth are mesmers supposed to play? Signet no clone phantasmal? oh boy that sounds fun.

So the purpose of this post is asking why they’re going through with these nerfs, as far as i can tell its just because condition PU builds can actually stand up to meta, then again it just seems as though they’re pushing us to play PU more due to how we’ll need boon duration for the vigor and how crit damage will be weak, someone make sense of this mess.

Well, we don’t exactly know what they’ll nerf until patch notes are released. Until then we should hold our breath and hope for the best.

I really have to disagree.
I play Mesmer myself, ONLY Mesmer. The reason why i do that is because there are so so so many builds out there for this class that are interesting, viable and fun!
There are Shatter builds, Interrupt builds, Condition builds and ofc PU builds and they’re all viable for PvP and WvW.
I’m currently running a non-PU condition build focused on confusion in tournaments.
I also believe a strong build is only half the win. It needs someone to press the right buttons at the right time behind the Mesmer too. . Personally it took me the longest to figure out how to play the builds that focus on interrupts. It takes patience but once you get a “feel” for timing and the timing of skills from others, it’s very rewarding.
Mostly however i do play Shatter builds tho, just like you. They’re very strong builds,
BUT not only you get better at the game, your opponents do too.
You can counter it, if you know how and you can counter PU just as much.

Last but not least i really think the game designers don’t rub their hands in anticipation for the next Mesmer nerf. And after they pushed a nerf through, i don’t imagine them laughing hysterically and plotting the next thing against us.
They try to balance the game… and a big game it is.

Ulalume.2470:

I really have to disagree.
I play Mesmer myself, ONLY Mesmer. The reason why i do that is because there are so so so many builds out there for this class that are interesting, viable and fun!
There are Shatter builds, Interrupt builds, Condition builds and ofc PU builds and they’re all viable for PvP and WvW.
I’m currently running a non-PU condition build focused on confusion in tournaments.
I also believe a strong build is only half the win. It needs someone to press the right buttons at the right time behind the Mesmer too. . Personally it took me the longest to figure out how to play the builds that focus on interrupts. It takes patience but once you get a “feel” for timing and the timing of skills from others, it’s very rewarding.
Mostly however i do play Shatter builds tho, just like you. They’re very strong builds,
BUT not only you get better at the game, your opponents do too.
You can counter it, if you know how and you can counter PU just as much.

Last but not least i really think the game designers don’t rub their hands in anticipation for the next Mesmer nerf. And after they pushed a nerf through, i don’t imagine them laughing hysterically and plotting the next thing against us.
They try to balance the game… and a big game it is.

say hello to warriors and thieves…
mesmer as a tpvp role is not at all strong considering there’s professions that can do it better. skilled mesmers just still want to play their favorite profession and make it work, they’re just not viable anymore sadly.

Ulalume.2470:

Last but not least i really think the game designers don’t rub their hands in anticipation for the next Mesmer nerf. And after they pushed a nerf through, i don’t imagine them laughing hysterically and plotting the next thing against us.

They just giggle. Hysterical laughter takes too much resources.

Ulalume.2470:

I really have to disagree.
I play Mesmer myself, ONLY Mesmer. The reason why i do that is because there are so so so many builds out there for this class that are interesting, viable and fun!
There are Shatter builds, Interrupt builds, Condition builds and ofc PU builds and they’re all viable for PvP and WvW.
I’m currently running a non-PU condition build focused on confusion in tournaments.
I also believe a strong build is only half the win. It needs someone to press the right buttons at the right time behind the Mesmer too. . Personally it took me the longest to figure out how to play the builds that focus on interrupts. It takes patience but once you get a “feel” for timing and the timing of skills from others, it’s very rewarding.
Mostly however i do play Shatter builds tho, just like you. They’re very strong builds,
BUT not only you get better at the game, your opponents do too.
You can counter it, if you know how and you can counter PU just as much.

Last but not least i really think the game designers don’t rub their hands in anticipation for the next Mesmer nerf. And after they pushed a nerf through, i don’t imagine them laughing hysterically and plotting the next thing against us.
They try to balance the game… and a big game it is.

well yes there are builds out there but most of the build diversity is for 1v1 a, roaming and spvp.
most of those builds dont work well in wvw raids. yes u get to stay alive and yes maybe deal a little dmg, but in a zergfight….nah. i play spvp,tpvp but 90% of the time i run with a zergbusting guild around. my role is veil and tw and thats it. if i want i can gank a few casters, but honestly thats not really my role. thief is the one that can gank casters way better than us. we are light armor class with ai and huge lack of aoe dmg.
all i want is a few options to spec into aoe dmg that is not ai based. dmg that doesnt involve ai. shatters are nice if u take ip, because illusions die often before they even reach a target in a zergfight. the phantasms get that 1 attackchain and then they die. so my main dmg vs a zerg is pretty much every 20 sec a berserker( cause thats the only one that isnt bugged atm and does hit multiple targets).
then shatter builds are great but u still need to get into a more dangerous range and it will still lack dmg due to clones and phantasms dying in aoe.
since glamour got nerfed to the ground, i tried almost every single build out there, but im just not feeling it anymore.
on my necro i have so much more fun. i can cast aoes and deal nice dmg i can use ds 3 and plague and its fun( only thing that is bad is combat mobility and escaping, but im having fun)

in spvp however i agree with u. i love testing out new builds….even tried a signet build(which was mayyybe a terrible thing to test out). i like lockdown builds, i played pu power, shatter, phantasm, triforce, blackwater, antiwarrior build, reflect builds, zergmower, i test out all the runes and yes in a duel i think lots of our traits can be useful. but most of them depend on illusions being either active, being shattered or attacking. in a wvw zergfight all those traits go byebye as u barely can keep them up.

ohh but btw we got something that could maybe be a good sign…anet posted:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/About-mesmer/first#post3683757

I think they should really look at warrior leap skills without a target… i cant get over the fact that if someone is invul i my illusions dont get summoned and go on full cd.. our LOS went to hell ever since they “adjusted” it… god forbid i ever have to attack a tower as a mesmer, with only 2-3 skills with long cds that will actually hit someone on top, it is pretty annoying that they havent addressed that yet. Besides, I dont see many ppl taking advantage of critical infusion – so I dont understand the nerf

selan.8354:

ohh but btw we got something that could maybe be a good sign…anet posted:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/About-mesmer/first#post3683757

With baited breath … kinda.

selan.8354:

ohh but btw we got something that could maybe be a good sign…anet posted:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/About-mesmer/first#post3683757

“Nice stuff” im guessing a total ‘Mimic’ revamp… their idea of good never seems to be my idea of good

Diablo.1384:

selan.8354:

ohh but btw we got something that could maybe be a good sign…anet posted:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/About-mesmer/first#post3683757

“Nice stuff” im guessing a total ‘Mimic’ revamp… their idea of good never seems to be my idea of good

Yeah,
Coming from people that wanted to nerf DE “nice stuff” could actually mean a nerf :s

selan.8354:

well yes there are builds out there but most of the build diversity is for 1v1 a, roaming and spvp.
most of those builds dont work well in wvw raids. yes u get to stay alive and yes maybe deal a little dmg, but in a zergfight….nah. i play spvp,tpvp but 90% of the time i run with a zergbusting guild around. my role is veil and tw and thats it. if i want i can gank a few casters, but honestly thats not really my role. thief is the one that can gank casters way better than us. we are light armor class with ai and huge lack of aoe dmg.
all i want is a few options to spec into aoe dmg that is not ai based. dmg that doesnt involve ai. shatters are nice if u take ip, because illusions die often before they even reach a target in a zergfight. the phantasms get that 1 attackchain and then they die. so my main dmg vs a zerg is pretty much every 20 sec a berserker( cause thats the only one that isnt bugged atm and does hit multiple targets).
then shatter builds are great but u still need to get into a more dangerous range and it will still lack dmg due to clones and phantasms dying in aoe.
since glamour got nerfed to the ground, i tried almost every single build out there, but im just not feeling it anymore.

I must admit i don’t have much WvW experience, but from what i’m getting from a PvE point a view regarding zerg fights… they are the WORST.
I really don’t know why this game is encouraging these kind of fights so much. Their own classes really don’t seem to be designed for it! Certainly not all of them.

Some Mesmers on this forum however posted great WvW videos and really almost all of them were small group roaming. Maybe that’s where it’s at? Maybe only join the zergs for flipping keeps etc. and then split up again? But ss i said – i don’t have much experience.

I heard a couple of times that Mesmers get used in zergs for a couple of their utilities (Portal, Veil and Mass Invisibility etc.) but isn’t that great?
We bring something very unique to the table that can be used to your great tactical advantage!
But generally i do get what you’re saying. The only thing i can think of to avoid this problem, is to avoid a zerk.
And if it makes you feel any better, we’re not the only ones suffering heavily from them.

Ulalume.2470:

I heard a couple of times that Mesmers get used in zergs for a couple of their utilities (Portal, Veil and Mass Invisibility etc.) but isn’t that great?
We bring something very unique to the table that can be used to your great tactical advantage!

There’s nothing great about it. To make the most of these utilities – which are great, there’s no denying that – you generally need 1-2 Mesmers per zerg. Our whole class also gets reduced to these very few utilities, as that’s the only reason we’re there for… anything else we can contribute, other classes do generally better. That’s why people refer to being a veil-bot or portal-bot, as you only need a person who can press a few keys on command, that’s all we contribute to a zerg.

Mesmer still is decent as solo-roamer, but again we’re being pushed out of the meta here as a lot of thief builds just hard-counter us. Sure, you can take out a decent portion of thieves, but in general they’re again better at it then we are. And then there’s other classes that are getting more and more a look-in here such as, for example, warriors. People keep saying we’re the best 1v1 class and that we’re OP here… I disagree with this. You can see in tPvP that the Mesmer has been pushed out of the Meta, most notably by the thief.

We’re still good 1v1, but we’re definitely not in the number one spot. PU Condi indeed remains very strong, but has severe limitations whilst also being a play-style that a lot of people don’t enjoy (I personally prefer power-based or hybrid specs, rather than condi ones). The only reason why people keep saying it is because the class is designed to confuse, and it does indeed confuse people who don’t understand our mechanics who then subsequently cry foul.

Like you say, small-scale is probably where our sweet spot is but then you have to run in a well-organised group and if the Mesmer isn’t played well, we quickly become a liability. Shatter works well in small-scale, but has a high skill ceiling. Lock-down can contribute very well too, but requires intimate knowledge of your opponents. PU power works is in a decent spot as well and is probably most forgiving.

Try some of those builds in small-scale and you’ll find you’ll still enjoy playing your Mesmer. And, who knows, given that it has been eluded to that we’ll get some good things in the next patch, new builds may become available and/or the whole Meta shifts and we may suddenly find ourselves in a different position.

Ulalume.2470:

selan.8354:

well yes there are builds out there but most of the build diversity is for 1v1 a, roaming and spvp.
most of those builds dont work well in wvw raids. yes u get to stay alive and yes maybe deal a little dmg, but in a zergfight….nah. i play spvp,tpvp but 90% of the time i run with a zergbusting guild around. my role is veil and tw and thats it. if i want i can gank a few casters, but honestly thats not really my role. thief is the one that can gank casters way better than us. we are light armor class with ai and huge lack of aoe dmg.
all i want is a few options to spec into aoe dmg that is not ai based. dmg that doesnt involve ai. shatters are nice if u take ip, because illusions die often before they even reach a target in a zergfight. the phantasms get that 1 attackchain and then they die. so my main dmg vs a zerg is pretty much every 20 sec a berserker( cause thats the only one that isnt bugged atm and does hit multiple targets).
then shatter builds are great but u still need to get into a more dangerous range and it will still lack dmg due to clones and phantasms dying in aoe.
since glamour got nerfed to the ground, i tried almost every single build out there, but im just not feeling it anymore.

I must admit i don’t have much WvW experience, but from what i’m getting from a PvE point a view regarding zerg fights… they are the WORST.
I really don’t know why this game is encouraging these kind of fights so much. Their own classes really don’t seem to be designed for it! Certainly not all of them.

Some Mesmers on this forum however posted great WvW videos and really almost all of them were small group roaming. Maybe that’s where it’s at? Maybe only join the zergs for flipping keeps etc. and then split up again? But ss i said – i don’t have much experience.

I heard a couple of times that Mesmers get used in zergs for a couple of their utilities (Portal, Veil and Mass Invisibility etc.) but isn’t that great?
We bring something very unique to the table that can be used to your great tactical advantage!
But generally i do get what you’re saying. The only thing i can think of to avoid this problem, is to avoid a zerk.
And if it makes you feel any better, we’re not the only ones suffering heavily from them.

well this is what im facing every day. we are around 18-20 players vs 30-50. i like zergbusting, but on my mes im the veil and tw only. my berserker hits a few but im not really able to deal lots of dmg like an ele at all.

this is what we face everyday: ermmm try to keep illusions up in there…

Diablo.1384:

So the purpose of this post is asking why they’re going through with these nerfs, as far as i can tell its just because condition PU builds can actually stand up to meta, then again it just seems as though they’re pushing us to play PU more due to how we’ll need boon duration for the vigor and how crit damage will be weak, someone make sense of this mess.

Yeah, there’s no way Illusions are going to stay up in that.
I’m not sure how a condition PU build would help with that though.