Guild Wars 2

No matter how hard I try, I just find myself unable to see the “zing” in running a staff. In either WvW or PvE, its moves just lack clear effects. The autoattack doesn’t seem to do anything, nor does 3. Chaos Storm is ok but it’s on a long cooldown and I rarely get the conditions I hope for. In the case of 4, I’m upleveled in WvW so I’ll die under any sort of focused fire anyway, even if I’m lucky enough to get useful boon. 2 is great; I need to practice with it more but it’s the one move that seems truly impactful.

Please, help me out here. How can I make it more apparent to myself that my staff skills are actually doing something useful?

Staff is primarily defensive. Chaos storm is great overall, gives you boons + gives enemies conditions + you can get chaos armor off it. Theres chaos armor in general. The “general” stun break on 2 on a short cooldown and then there’s iWarlock which hits pretty hard. In PvE/WvW as a lowbie I’d suggest greatsword. Staff becomes a lot more useful when you hit 80 and PvP a lot.

If you’re not a condition build, staff shouldn’t be your primary weapon. But even if you were, I’d understand your frustrations. It really does lack a punch, but you sacrifice (maybe a little too much) damage for extreme survivability.

And if you’re using Chaos Storm for conditions, you’re using it wrong. You either use it on yourself for boons and Chaos Armor, or you use it on the enemy for physical damage. The occasional interrupt is great; the conditions are too short to be anything useful.

I like staff for a few reasons. For one thing, it’s an absolutely wonderful buffing and debuffing weapon. Even if you’re a lowbie in WvW, it’s at least useful for granting your allies boons. However, I really like it because it’s a very bunker-like weapon (not necessarily defensive). PR is just absolutely wonderful, and in a lot of my builds it ends up getting traited down to a cooldown of only 6 seconds. It’s a very nice diversion/distraction tool that you can use to really confuse enemies, while maintaining nice mobility. It’s also very good for generating illusions. Outside of that, the phantasm, chaos armor, and chaos storm are all absolutely wonderful abilities.

Try rampager gear, get a sigil of earth, trait yourself with sharper images and/or illusionary elasticity and then try again. Like many aspects of mesmers, you have to build towards it. Even then, the staff is still for defense and support. To fight with it, it’s best to kite enemies while staying just out of melee range. Blink, dodge or phase retreat when anyone gets too close.

Staff added with the right utilities is why mesmers have the potential for top tier in combat mobility and control. I don’t need to tell you why staff is good the above posts have that covered.

All I’m going to say is phase retreat.

A 600 range teleport that moves you away from your target can be traited for a 6 sec cooldown and produces a clone (can be used while stunned). Phase retreat maneuverability is insane. Just youtube phase retreat/ mesmer mobility guides on youtube you’ll see what i mean.

To understand the use of staff you need to understand see its role for what it it.

It not suppose to give instant rewards in terms of big numbers, even if you spec for deep condition its rather hard in wvwvw to stakc enought high conditions to accualy deal dmg with the staff. What it do provide in dmg thu and in offensive conditions thu is preassure. You dont kill the enemy with staff, you preassure him. Between your bursts you want to stress the enemy, make him defensive and general keep him low, when your cd,s are ready again for a kill in a few secconds you go for the kill by swap to sword / x

What staff lso give is the best mobility by any other mesmer weapon. It also have the strongest defensive cd,s in game for mesmers. Plus it have a EXTREMLY high clone generation, our most important resourse.

So how do you get anything usefull of your staff, you dont use it for kills, you use it for :

-Mobility and chasing ppl down (yes you can catch runners by use staff)
-Defensive juking
-Build preassure on enemy
-Team support/own booning up for a kill

When you want to kill someone swap to sword /x. When somone want to kill you swapp to staff.

Adding a video who might explain the different uses.

/Osicat

Chaos Armor. Learn to love it. Staff 2 and any etheral field give CA, along with 4 on demand of course.

The thing with a staff is that its a pure defensive weapon. You have to keep that in mind if you want to use it – damage need to be combined with your other weapon set and your phantasms (I use sword/focus). Using it like say a Gaurdian staff where the primary purpose is to spam 1 on zergs wont work at all, its all about utility.

But it does take time to learn to love it, lol. I have been using the GS alot. Berserker build and GS = dead Risen in 2 seconds. Oh joy. However, with a staff and toughness build… You can walk through 30 man zergs in WvW.

Nowadays I only swap to GS when there are specific needs. Like killing Jormag, need that extra range on auto-attack to reach him without getting owned by the debuff. Otherwise its the staff all the way. An example where it truly shines is a melee boss like Mossman on fractals. If he hurt you then you did poorly, even if you got aggro the entire fight, lol.

Osicat.4139:

To understand the use of staff you need to understand see its role for what it it.

It not suppose to give instant rewards in terms of big numbers, even if you spec for deep condition its rather hard in wvwvw to stakc enought high conditions to accualy deal dmg with the staff. What it do provide in dmg thu and in offensive conditions thu is preassure. You dont kill the enemy with staff, you preassure him. Between your bursts you want to stress the enemy, make him defensive and general keep him low, when your cd,s are ready again for a kill in a few secconds you go for the kill by swap to sword / x

What staff lso give is the best mobility by any other mesmer weapon. It also have the strongest defensive cd,s in game for mesmers. Plus it have a EXTREMLY high clone generation, our most important resourse.

So how do you get anything usefull of your staff, you dont use it for kills, you use it for :

-Mobility and chasing ppl down (yes you can catch runners by use staff)
-Defensive juking
-Build preassure on enemy
-Team support/own booning up for a kill

When you want to kill someone swap to sword /x. When somone want to kill you swapp to staff.

Adding a video who might explain the different uses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4Iz8XI_Jg4

/Osicat

Osicat what I saw it that video is ridiculous! Ridiculous in the sense that you move your mesmer like it was your own body…you mastered it! How you use your abilities combined with terrain is a thing of beauty!

The safest way – IMO – is GS + Staff. This gives you the pinpoint power of the Greatsword together with it’s nice AE snare, might stacks and AE knockback (which is very awesome in any engagement near a cliff). But, you also have the defensive power of the Staff, specifically stun break, teleport and lots of Chaos Armour.

It’s an underutilized combination I think, but you’re not using the Staff for damage at all, so not having much Condition Damage isn’t going to hurt much.

Most has been said already, so I try to say other things.

In my eyes, any weapon is a better clone generator than the Staff. Staff #2 may summon a clone, but using it as such, negates its retreating purpose.

Staff is a defensive/ supportive weapon. Its #2 skill is unbeatable for retreating, yet is it not a stunbreaker. I equip the staff for bosses like Alpha #2~3 and Lupicus, since survival is most important there.
But the staffs #1 damage is mainly unseen. You cause the most damage by bleeding and burning and even with berserker gear is deals more damage than the GS. You just don’t see it. With clones the difference is just greater (seriously, GS and scepter clones need additional effects), even with the super useless Vulnerability.
I don’t like staff’s #4 since I need to get hit to trigger its effects; and I don’t get hit.

The GS is rather a direct damage weapon (so, better for yellow type targets) and a ranged one. You deal more damage at range, aoe cripple your targets and if they come close to you, you push them away.

Same problem than the OP here. I’m trying, but I always end up with GS+sw/focus. I’m trying, I’m trying…

Ryn.6459:

Same problem than the OP here. I’m trying, but I always end up with GS+sw/focus. I’m trying, I’m trying…

It just may not be your type of weapon and that’s okay. Beyond a few bugs, there’s nothing wrong with the greatsword. I always carry one with me for situations where it’s more useful than staff.

Staff is close range, dont use it from long range.

You need to be close, drop a chaos storm on yourself and your target, use chaos armor, keep close so your autoattack bounces quickly, and watch the conditons and boons stack up quick. Dmg starts slow, but ramps up very quickly.

Gs is for range.

As other said, staff is defensive, close-ranged and deals steady/slower dmg.

Out of that scenario, well, it’s very lackuster.

Storm yourself. abuse leap combo fields. Let conditions take care of themselves.

I only don’t use staff because you don’t get first tag on mobs in events with it.

Blaine Tog.8304:

No matter how hard I try, I just find myself unable to see the “zing” in running a staff. In either WvW or PvE, its moves just lack clear effects. The autoattack doesn’t seem to do anything, nor does 3. Chaos Storm is ok but it’s on a long cooldown and I rarely get the conditions I hope for. In the case of 4, I’m upleveled in WvW so I’ll die under any sort of focused fire anyway, even if I’m lucky enough to get useful boon. 2 is great; I need to practice with it more but it’s the one move that seems truly impactful.

Please, help me out here. How can I make it more apparent to myself that my staff skills are actually doing something useful?

Staff is great for condition damage… and staff clones are our most damaging clones (for clones) the fun thing about staff is if you use it for a back up weapon to your main…. Burst mesmers love it because it gives them survivability… Confusion mesmers love it because they can have chaos armor up (causing more confusion) the entire time they are in it before swapping back to their main… Using staff for condi damage is just great though…

AndrewSX.3794:

As other said, staff is defensive, close-ranged and deals steady/slower dmg.

Out of that scenario, well, it’s very lackuster.

It’s not bad at all for long range in keep warfare, either. Not as good as in close combat, but solid especially when your off-set is Sword+X.

ExZee.8109:

If you’re not a condition build, staff shouldn’t be your primary weapon. But even if you were, I’d understand your frustrations. It really does lack a punch, but you sacrifice (maybe a little too much) damage for extreme survivability.

And if you’re using Chaos Storm for conditions, you’re using it wrong. You either use it on yourself for boons and Chaos Armor, or you use it on the enemy for physical damage. The occasional interrupt is great; the conditions are too short to be anything useful.

I agree with this, however, you can use staff outside of condition builds if you need more utility and defense. There are shatter PvP builds that incorporate it quite well. It’s not the primary weapon on those builds, either, though. Yeah, Chaos Storm is better put on yourself AND the enemy if you can. The boons it gives can be extremely helpful, and the extra Chaos Armor is invaluable.

Some key notes for staff are that #2 will push you away from whatever you have targeted, no matter what direction you’re facing, and that using #2 inside #5 will grant five secs of Chaos Armor (minus Protection). The iWarlock also scales very hard with conditions: it can nuke squishies down for ~4k if they’re suffering some vuln and bleed stacks.

I honestly think it’s our strongest weapon (maybe tied with m/h sword) once you get used to it.

Phase retreat #2 is one of the best skills we have access to, on any weapon (or utility for that matter). I agree that staff lacks that… satisfying punch to it, compared to say sword or GS. All the skills are a little wishy-washy, effects wise, however don’t let that fool you – you have five amazing abilities at your disposal.

Two easy ways of gaining chaos armour, access to important boons (ie, aegis), the phantasm hits hard if you make sure to load up as many conditions on the target as possible, and clones auto attack buffs you too!

Taking illusionary elasticity increases the effectiveness of your auto attack – depends whether you feel it’s worth 20 points in illusions (if you take GS as well, and underwater trident then it is a must have trait).

It is primarily a defensive weapon as most people have said, and always worth having there to swap to. I’d prefer not to use it, but it’s just too kitten useful.

Maybe when we get MH pistol, or even a two-handed hammer, or MH focus (yeah I can dream!) then I’ll put it down.

I had some guy last night question me using staff in CoF…….lol.

Staff is the single greatest weapon period. It produces clones faster than any other weapon which makes it ideal for Sword pistol shatter build like Osicat’s.

If you’re not understanding staff then the real issue is not understanding shatters.

Aegis as well, the staff can protect you and your little army a little bit more. There is a very high chance it will proc, and all of that with chaos storms stacking a little more conditions for the warlock burst is really awesome. Also the mobility with the staff in and out of battle is pretty fantastic.

Thanks guys, your advice has been very helpful. I’ve been trying to focus on using the staff for defense and things seem to be going better. For some reason I’m having trouble getting Chaos Armor out of 5 + 2. Is there some trick to it? I’ve been popping 5, walking into it, then 2ing out.

@Blaine Tog, Im there for you

/osicat

Archer.1658:

Staff is primarily defensive. Chaos storm is great overall, gives you boons + gives enemies conditions + you can get chaos armor off it. Theres chaos armor in general. The “general” stun break on 2 on a short cooldown and then there’s iWarlock which hits pretty hard. In PvE/WvW as a lowbie I’d suggest greatsword. Staff becomes a lot more useful when you hit 80 and PvP a lot.

The boons that CS gives you now will actually help Warriors that trait into +3% dmg for every boon on you…

Not only we got nerfed, the more we try to boost our attack (as every other class too) will make us get more dmg against them.

Tbh Devilsmack, warriors need al buffs they can get vs us. I dueled several today who in general are skilled players and win vs many classes and other good players in dules, and they still accualy need to land thos hits to do and dmg. Dont see warriors buffs as major threat vs us.

/Osicat

Devilsmack.5736:

Archer.1658:

Staff is primarily defensive. Chaos storm is great overall, gives you boons + gives enemies conditions + you can get chaos armor off it. Theres chaos armor in general. The “general” stun break on 2 on a short cooldown and then there’s iWarlock which hits pretty hard. In PvE/WvW as a lowbie I’d suggest greatsword. Staff becomes a lot more useful when you hit 80 and PvP a lot.

The boons that CS gives you now will actually help Warriors that trait into +3% dmg for every boon on you…

Not only we got nerfed, the more we try to boost our attack (as every other class too) will make us get more dmg against them.

You seem to be forgetting that trait requires a pretty massive trait investment, and from I’ve been hearing it sounds like a lot of warriors are not willing to do that.

Hell I’ve heard a lot say doing that hurts their damage.

shimmerless.4560:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Thanks guys, your advice has been very helpful. I’ve been trying to focus on using the staff for defense and things seem to be going better. For some reason I’m having trouble getting Chaos Armor out of 5 + 2. Is there some trick to it? I’ve been popping 5, walking into it, then 2ing out.

I haven’t had issues (though I won’t mention Phase Retreat’s habit of gluing you to the inside of walls)… are you certain you don’t already have Chaos Armor (#4) up before hitting #2?

urrgh, its not so bad now, (jumped on my mes a bit again), but after launch for the first month or so, I estimate about 1 in 4 phased retreat woudl put me under the map. And i had to pay way point fees each time to get back ontop of the map!, urrgh.