Guild Wars 2

Aurugal.6954:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Pyro…. I can’t believe the amount of stupid we’ve had lately on the Mesmer forum. Between the person thinking Open World PvE needs specialized builds and makes a “profit”, the person that thinks condi Mesmer is the best thing since sliced bread because one team ran it over the weekend, and now this guy. There must have been a convention were they passed out some of the good stuff and we weren’t called in on it.

On topic, condi Mesmer, to me, hasn’t been as good since they deleted clone death traits. Why? Because now our three most easily applied conditions are torment, bleed, and confusion. Unless you run dueling I don’t find bleeds to be worth it so that leaves torment and confusion. Both of which have received nerfs over the years. The most important one recently was the nerf to MtD so that the torment stacks we applied on shatter was 1 from 2. Which sucks. Now you’re essentially bursting someone and if they clear it, dogde, or invuln through it like you would a power shatter you’re screwed until you can set up another burst.
Which basically means the only reason for any team to take Mesmer now after quickness nerfs is portal. And it’s not strong if you can’t use it properly.

Well I will try to be as unbiased as popular, moa is the strongest elite in the game especially in a coordinated team based environment which the game should be balanced around anyways. That being said condi mes is great for ranked because it pub stomps the plebs really hard for two reasons. 1) They don’t know how to wait out confusion stacks when their condi clear is down, they have been groomed to think that more buttons=better results which is why condi mes can be incredibly satisfying to play; you just know blatantly when the guy is new/bad.
2) Most people in GW2 have been conditioned to think that the only ‘honorable’ (lmao) way of playing is through power damage, probably because condi is admittedly superior in wvw scenarios vs most things so the only players they feel deservingly and fairly beat them are those who do so through power builds. Because of this, they build their traits, sigils and such to be optimized vs power builds and then when a build comes along that PUNISHES them for their greedy build they decide to take it up on the forums instead of yielding to the fact that just mayyyybe that fire sigil or pulmonary impact wasn’t the best choice vs 2 reapers and a condi mes. I donno man I get kicks from watching a war pop berserker stance when 2 confusion is on him and then when i unload the cds and he drops ‘WOW CONDI OP’. Get checked seriously.

yep, the most powerful elite skill in the game coupled with the most powerful utility skill in the game (portal), in a single class which can also instantly reset cooldowns or speed them up, some great design ideas right there

also very nice piece of advice to “wait out” confusion stacks, whats next? “waiting out” torment stacks not moving from a spot? :^)

Lexander.4579:

Aurugal.6954:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Pyro…. I can’t believe the amount of stupid we’ve had lately on the Mesmer forum. Between the person thinking Open World PvE needs specialized builds and makes a “profit”, the person that thinks condi Mesmer is the best thing since sliced bread because one team ran it over the weekend, and now this guy. There must have been a convention were they passed out some of the good stuff and we weren’t called in on it.

On topic, condi Mesmer, to me, hasn’t been as good since they deleted clone death traits. Why? Because now our three most easily applied conditions are torment, bleed, and confusion. Unless you run dueling I don’t find bleeds to be worth it so that leaves torment and confusion. Both of which have received nerfs over the years. The most important one recently was the nerf to MtD so that the torment stacks we applied on shatter was 1 from 2. Which sucks. Now you’re essentially bursting someone and if they clear it, dogde, or invuln through it like you would a power shatter you’re screwed until you can set up another burst.
Which basically means the only reason for any team to take Mesmer now after quickness nerfs is portal. And it’s not strong if you can’t use it properly.

Well I will try to be as unbiased as popular, moa is the strongest elite in the game especially in a coordinated team based environment which the game should be balanced around anyways. That being said condi mes is great for ranked because it pub stomps the plebs really hard for two reasons. 1) They don’t know how to wait out confusion stacks when their condi clear is down, they have been groomed to think that more buttons=better results which is why condi mes can be incredibly satisfying to play; you just know blatantly when the guy is new/bad.
2) Most people in GW2 have been conditioned to think that the only ‘honorable’ (lmao) way of playing is through power damage, probably because condi is admittedly superior in wvw scenarios vs most things so the only players they feel deservingly and fairly beat them are those who do so through power builds. Because of this, they build their traits, sigils and such to be optimized vs power builds and then when a build comes along that PUNISHES them for their greedy build they decide to take it up on the forums instead of yielding to the fact that just mayyyybe that fire sigil or pulmonary impact wasn’t the best choice vs 2 reapers and a condi mes. I donno man I get kicks from watching a war pop berserker stance when 2 confusion is on him and then when i unload the cds and he drops ‘WOW CONDI OP’. Get checked seriously.

yep, the most powerful elite skill in the game coupled with the most powerful utility skill in the game (portal), in a single class which can also instantly reset cooldowns or speed them up, some great design ideas right there

also very nice piece of advice to “wait out” confusion stacks, whats next? “waiting out” torment stacks not moving from a spot? :^)

You know I would take you a lot more seriously if you weren’t a thief main for god’s sake XDDDDDDD; like I if I was on thief all day I would orgasm if people were stacking mesmers. And if you get moa’d as a thief, unless it is from stealth ofcourse you need to get yourself on DH my friend haha

Aurugal.6954:

Lexander.4579:

Aurugal.6954:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Pyro…. I can’t believe the amount of stupid we’ve had lately on the Mesmer forum. Between the person thinking Open World PvE needs specialized builds and makes a “profit”, the person that thinks condi Mesmer is the best thing since sliced bread because one team ran it over the weekend, and now this guy. There must have been a convention were they passed out some of the good stuff and we weren’t called in on it.

On topic, condi Mesmer, to me, hasn’t been as good since they deleted clone death traits. Why? Because now our three most easily applied conditions are torment, bleed, and confusion. Unless you run dueling I don’t find bleeds to be worth it so that leaves torment and confusion. Both of which have received nerfs over the years. The most important one recently was the nerf to MtD so that the torment stacks we applied on shatter was 1 from 2. Which sucks. Now you’re essentially bursting someone and if they clear it, dogde, or invuln through it like you would a power shatter you’re screwed until you can set up another burst.
Which basically means the only reason for any team to take Mesmer now after quickness nerfs is portal. And it’s not strong if you can’t use it properly.

Well I will try to be as unbiased as popular, moa is the strongest elite in the game especially in a coordinated team based environment which the game should be balanced around anyways. That being said condi mes is great for ranked because it pub stomps the plebs really hard for two reasons. 1) They don’t know how to wait out confusion stacks when their condi clear is down, they have been groomed to think that more buttons=better results which is why condi mes can be incredibly satisfying to play; you just know blatantly when the guy is new/bad.
2) Most people in GW2 have been conditioned to think that the only ‘honorable’ (lmao) way of playing is through power damage, probably because condi is admittedly superior in wvw scenarios vs most things so the only players they feel deservingly and fairly beat them are those who do so through power builds. Because of this, they build their traits, sigils and such to be optimized vs power builds and then when a build comes along that PUNISHES them for their greedy build they decide to take it up on the forums instead of yielding to the fact that just mayyyybe that fire sigil or pulmonary impact wasn’t the best choice vs 2 reapers and a condi mes. I donno man I get kicks from watching a war pop berserker stance when 2 confusion is on him and then when i unload the cds and he drops ‘WOW CONDI OP’. Get checked seriously.

yep, the most powerful elite skill in the game coupled with the most powerful utility skill in the game (portal), in a single class which can also instantly reset cooldowns or speed them up, some great design ideas right there

also very nice piece of advice to “wait out” confusion stacks, whats next? “waiting out” torment stacks not moving from a spot? :^)

You know I would take you a lot more seriously if you weren’t a thief main for god’s sake XDDDDDDD; like I if I was on thief all day I would orgasm if people were stacking mesmers. And if you get moa’d as a thief, unless it is from stealth ofcourse you need to get yourself on DH my friend haha

just wait out the pulmonary impact m8

Issue more or less stems from dire/perplex gear in WvW. But everything in dire/perplex gear is ridiculously overpowered. And I’m sorry, there’s really no defending that gear combination as balanced. In sPvP the build is kind of whatever since the defenses aren’t so absurd.

As far as moa’ing a thief, I’m sorry but if a mesmer can’t land a moa during the 3-4 second period of reveal they have a serious l2p problem. The rest of the matchup is heavily build/format-dependent. In WvW the matchup at times can favor the mesmer (even on power) with such drastically increased shatter damage. Condi dire/perplex PU is cakewalk as a build, but so is anything running dire gear as mentioned.

Lexander.4579:

Aurugal.6954:

Lexander.4579:

Aurugal.6954:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Pyro…. I can’t believe the amount of stupid we’ve had lately on the Mesmer forum. Between the person thinking Open World PvE needs specialized builds and makes a “profit”, the person that thinks condi Mesmer is the best thing since sliced bread because one team ran it over the weekend, and now this guy. There must have been a convention were they passed out some of the good stuff and we weren’t called in on it.

On topic, condi Mesmer, to me, hasn’t been as good since they deleted clone death traits. Why? Because now our three most easily applied conditions are torment, bleed, and confusion. Unless you run dueling I don’t find bleeds to be worth it so that leaves torment and confusion. Both of which have received nerfs over the years. The most important one recently was the nerf to MtD so that the torment stacks we applied on shatter was 1 from 2. Which sucks. Now you’re essentially bursting someone and if they clear it, dogde, or invuln through it like you would a power shatter you’re screwed until you can set up another burst.
Which basically means the only reason for any team to take Mesmer now after quickness nerfs is portal. And it’s not strong if you can’t use it properly.

Well I will try to be as unbiased as popular, moa is the strongest elite in the game especially in a coordinated team based environment which the game should be balanced around anyways. That being said condi mes is great for ranked because it pub stomps the plebs really hard for two reasons. 1) They don’t know how to wait out confusion stacks when their condi clear is down, they have been groomed to think that more buttons=better results which is why condi mes can be incredibly satisfying to play; you just know blatantly when the guy is new/bad.
2) Most people in GW2 have been conditioned to think that the only ‘honorable’ (lmao) way of playing is through power damage, probably because condi is admittedly superior in wvw scenarios vs most things so the only players they feel deservingly and fairly beat them are those who do so through power builds. Because of this, they build their traits, sigils and such to be optimized vs power builds and then when a build comes along that PUNISHES them for their greedy build they decide to take it up on the forums instead of yielding to the fact that just mayyyybe that fire sigil or pulmonary impact wasn’t the best choice vs 2 reapers and a condi mes. I donno man I get kicks from watching a war pop berserker stance when 2 confusion is on him and then when i unload the cds and he drops ‘WOW CONDI OP’. Get checked seriously.

yep, the most powerful elite skill in the game coupled with the most powerful utility skill in the game (portal), in a single class which can also instantly reset cooldowns or speed them up, some great design ideas right there

also very nice piece of advice to “wait out” confusion stacks, whats next? “waiting out” torment stacks not moving from a spot? :^)

You know I would take you a lot more seriously if you weren’t a thief main for god’s sake XDDDDDDD; like I if I was on thief all day I would orgasm if people were stacking mesmers. And if you get moa’d as a thief, unless it is from stealth ofcourse you need to get yourself on DH my friend haha

just wait out the pulmonary impact m8

Lexander message me in game if you are EU and i swear I swear i will send you 100 gold; you are actually really funny and I bet people love hanging out with you irl. This is not sarcasm you just made my day when you threw my banter back at me I can’t your clever XD. ‘just wait out the pulmonary impact’ like en guard honestly that was well played

To get back on topic, Condi mes imho is a high skill ceiling build in spvp; if you truly understand the build you can reflect (get it) on a fight you lost and find a way you could have done it better if it was winnable. However, it is not that hard to get into mechanically which is a good foundation for a healthy game anyways; easy to play hard to master. Builds like the old dd ele for example though demand much more out of the player so there’s that.

Aurugal.6954:

Lexander.4579:

Aurugal.6954:

Lexander.4579:

Aurugal.6954:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Pyro…. I can’t believe the amount of stupid we’ve had lately on the Mesmer forum. Between the person thinking Open World PvE needs specialized builds and makes a “profit”, the person that thinks condi Mesmer is the best thing since sliced bread because one team ran it over the weekend, and now this guy. There must have been a convention were they passed out some of the good stuff and we weren’t called in on it.

On topic, condi Mesmer, to me, hasn’t been as good since they deleted clone death traits. Why? Because now our three most easily applied conditions are torment, bleed, and confusion. Unless you run dueling I don’t find bleeds to be worth it so that leaves torment and confusion. Both of which have received nerfs over the years. The most important one recently was the nerf to MtD so that the torment stacks we applied on shatter was 1 from 2. Which sucks. Now you’re essentially bursting someone and if they clear it, dogde, or invuln through it like you would a power shatter you’re screwed until you can set up another burst.
Which basically means the only reason for any team to take Mesmer now after quickness nerfs is portal. And it’s not strong if you can’t use it properly.

Well I will try to be as unbiased as popular, moa is the strongest elite in the game especially in a coordinated team based environment which the game should be balanced around anyways. That being said condi mes is great for ranked because it pub stomps the plebs really hard for two reasons. 1) They don’t know how to wait out confusion stacks when their condi clear is down, they have been groomed to think that more buttons=better results which is why condi mes can be incredibly satisfying to play; you just know blatantly when the guy is new/bad.
2) Most people in GW2 have been conditioned to think that the only ‘honorable’ (lmao) way of playing is through power damage, probably because condi is admittedly superior in wvw scenarios vs most things so the only players they feel deservingly and fairly beat them are those who do so through power builds. Because of this, they build their traits, sigils and such to be optimized vs power builds and then when a build comes along that PUNISHES them for their greedy build they decide to take it up on the forums instead of yielding to the fact that just mayyyybe that fire sigil or pulmonary impact wasn’t the best choice vs 2 reapers and a condi mes. I donno man I get kicks from watching a war pop berserker stance when 2 confusion is on him and then when i unload the cds and he drops ‘WOW CONDI OP’. Get checked seriously.

yep, the most powerful elite skill in the game coupled with the most powerful utility skill in the game (portal), in a single class which can also instantly reset cooldowns or speed them up, some great design ideas right there

also very nice piece of advice to “wait out” confusion stacks, whats next? “waiting out” torment stacks not moving from a spot? :^)

You know I would take you a lot more seriously if you weren’t a thief main for god’s sake XDDDDDDD; like I if I was on thief all day I would orgasm if people were stacking mesmers. And if you get moa’d as a thief, unless it is from stealth ofcourse you need to get yourself on DH my friend haha

just wait out the pulmonary impact m8

Lexander message me in game if you are EU and i swear I swear i will send you 100 gold; you are actually really funny and I bet people love hanging out with you irl. This is not sarcasm you just made my day when you threw my banter back at me I can’t your clever XD. ‘just wait out the pulmonary impact’ like en guard honestly that was well played

nice, forum posting paid off finally

Lexander.4579:

in a single class which can also instantly reset cooldowns or speed them up

Yeah, so, that’s now how f5 works? This has been explained to you before, but you keep repeating it and I’m mystified why you think everyone on the mesmer forum isn’t aware by now that you’re intentionally misunderstanding the ability.

It doesn’t “instantly reset skills” the way you keep implying. It allows you to use skills during a window, which then get reset. You have to plan ahead. AKA, you can’t use moa and whatever the heck else, then pop f5, and whoo they’re back!
No, you have to activate f5, then moa, then you get it back…except no one in their right minds uses Moa again after that. So all it does is cut Moa’s cd down to the 90s cd of f5 instead of its 180s original cd, and only if you did a long enough shatter (at least one illusion up, probably 2-3), and only if no one breaks your rift before you get the moa off.

As for the skill cooldowns, you do know that Chrono has ZERO usable damage and ZERO defensive traits, don’t you? 100% Alacrity as it is now = 25% cooldown reduction. That’s pretty cool, but it’s the only numbers boost we get from the line.

Chrono makes you squishier, and/or it makes you hit less hard (sometimes both, if you’re a condi going without Chaos).

Your entire complaint is founded on a misperception of what the class and spec get, and what the cost is for that. And you’ve had these things explained to you multiple times, and you’ve learned nothing for it.

What a troll.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Lexander.4579:

in a single class which can also instantly reset cooldowns or speed them up

Yeah, so, that’s now how f5 works? This has been explained to you before, but you keep repeating it and I’m mystified why you think everyone on the mesmer forum isn’t aware by now that you’re intentionally misunderstanding the ability.

It doesn’t “instantly reset skills” the way you keep implying. It allows you to use skills during a window, which then get reset. You have to plan ahead. AKA, you can’t use moa and whatever the heck else, then pop f5, and whoo they’re back!
No, you have to activate f5, then moa, then you get it back…except no one in their right minds uses Moa again after that. So all it does is cut Moa’s cd down to the 90s cd of f5 instead of its 180s original cd, and only if you did a long enough shatter (at least one illusion up, probably 2-3), and only if no one breaks your rift before you get the moa off.

As for the skill cooldowns, you do know that Chrono has ZERO usable damage and ZERO defensive traits, don’t you? 100% Alacrity as it is now = 25% cooldown reduction. That’s pretty cool, but it’s the only numbers boost we get from the line.

Chrono makes you squishier, and/or it makes you hit less hard (sometimes both, if you’re a condi going without Chaos).

Your entire complaint is founded on a misperception of what the class and spec get, and what the cost is for that. And you’ve had these things explained to you multiple times, and you’ve learned nothing for it.

What a troll.

You don’t get it! He is a thief!! He reks us in game than after we are destroyed he comes and reks us on the forums as well. Absolute domination

Lexander.4579:

Aurugal.6954:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Pyro…. I can’t believe the amount of stupid we’ve had lately on the Mesmer forum. Between the person thinking Open World PvE needs specialized builds and makes a “profit”, the person that thinks condi Mesmer is the best thing since sliced bread because one team ran it over the weekend, and now this guy. There must have been a convention were they passed out some of the good stuff and we weren’t called in on it.

On topic, condi Mesmer, to me, hasn’t been as good since they deleted clone death traits. Why? Because now our three most easily applied conditions are torment, bleed, and confusion. Unless you run dueling I don’t find bleeds to be worth it so that leaves torment and confusion. Both of which have received nerfs over the years. The most important one recently was the nerf to MtD so that the torment stacks we applied on shatter was 1 from 2. Which sucks. Now you’re essentially bursting someone and if they clear it, dogde, or invuln through it like you would a power shatter you’re screwed until you can set up another burst.
Which basically means the only reason for any team to take Mesmer now after quickness nerfs is portal. And it’s not strong if you can’t use it properly.

Well I will try to be as unbiased as popular, moa is the strongest elite in the game especially in a coordinated team based environment which the game should be balanced around anyways. That being said condi mes is great for ranked because it pub stomps the plebs really hard for two reasons. 1) They don’t know how to wait out confusion stacks when their condi clear is down, they have been groomed to think that more buttons=better results which is why condi mes can be incredibly satisfying to play; you just know blatantly when the guy is new/bad.
2) Most people in GW2 have been conditioned to think that the only ‘honorable’ (lmao) way of playing is through power damage, probably because condi is admittedly superior in wvw scenarios vs most things so the only players they feel deservingly and fairly beat them are those who do so through power builds. Because of this, they build their traits, sigils and such to be optimized vs power builds and then when a build comes along that PUNISHES them for their greedy build they decide to take it up on the forums instead of yielding to the fact that just mayyyybe that fire sigil or pulmonary impact wasn’t the best choice vs 2 reapers and a condi mes. I donno man I get kicks from watching a war pop berserker stance when 2 confusion is on him and then when i unload the cds and he drops ‘WOW CONDI OP’. Get checked seriously.

yep, the most powerful elite skill in the game coupled with the most powerful utility skill in the game (portal), in a single class which can also instantly reset cooldowns or speed them up, some great design ideas right there

also very nice piece of advice to “wait out” confusion stacks, whats next? “waiting out” torment stacks not moving from a spot? :^)

Heh. You refer to mesmers as ‘gods’ in another thread, we’ve got the most powerful skills in the game according to you…and you still want us to believe that you don’t get shrekt every time you see one.

Keep dreaming.

bearshaman.3421:

You’re talking to someone who hasn’t posted in this thread. 0_o

cough

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Lexander.4579:

in a single class which can also instantly reset cooldowns or speed them up

Yeah, so, that’s now how f5 works? This has been explained to you before, but you keep repeating it and I’m mystified why you think everyone on the mesmer forum isn’t aware by now that you’re intentionally misunderstanding the ability.

It doesn’t “instantly reset skills” the way you keep implying. It allows you to use skills during a window, which then get reset. You have to plan ahead. AKA, you can’t use moa and whatever the heck else, then pop f5, and whoo they’re back!
No, you have to activate f5, then moa, then you get it back…except no one in their right minds uses Moa again after that. So all it does is cut Moa’s cd down to the 90s cd of f5 instead of its 180s original cd, and only if you did a long enough shatter (at least one illusion up, probably 2-3), and only if no one breaks your rift before you get the moa off.

As for the skill cooldowns, you do know that Chrono has ZERO usable damage and ZERO defensive traits, don’t you? 100% Alacrity as it is now = 25% cooldown reduction. That’s pretty cool, but it’s the only numbers boost we get from the line.

Chrono makes you squishier, and/or it makes you hit less hard (sometimes both, if you’re a condi going without Chaos).

Your entire complaint is founded on a misperception of what the class and spec get, and what the cost is for that. And you’ve had these things explained to you multiple times, and you’ve learned nothing for it.

What a troll.

hold on, so simply because you have to plan which skills you use in the next few seconds before you get free cd resets on them makes F5 bad? or difficult to use? that sounds about as difficult as pressing 5-2 with d/p thief

Speaking as an engi who only plays WvW, fighting against pre HOT perplexity dire condi mesmers. (condi mesmer roamers seem to have gone nearly extinct for some reason (which is a good thing, fighting against “OP” elite specs is still way more enjoyable then fighting a condi mesmer)).

I can’t say condi mesmer is easy to play since I don’t play it myself but it is/was imo by far the most annoying build to fight.
metabattle’s description of the build :" One of the most annoying-to-fight builds of all time, ever…".

I perform pretty well against most other condi builds since i bring a fair amount of condi cleanses and most can be worn down/outplayed.

general annoyances when fighting a perplexity dire condi mesmer:

- When you see that you hit a block you can dodge to avoid illusionary counter but chances are high that you just hit an aegis of prismatic understanding thus making you waste a dodge. Often you can’t see if the mesmer was using illusionary counter because most of them condi mesmers play with tiny asura’s and the animation is not really one of the most telegraphed.

- When he’s using confusiong images you can dodge but you’ll end up with a few condi stacks on you anyway.

-most of the time you can’t play aggressive because you are either on the defensive (dealing with clones or whatever you call them ) or you have just to many confusion stacks on you. Combine that with the good survivability of the condi mesmer build making it a long boring fight that you will end up losing if the mesmer has half a brain.

-As a 3 kit engi I probably get hit alot more by the confusion stacks than the average other player (every kit swap procs confusion (I need to swap ALOT if i wanne do damage), healing turret procs confusion twice,…) so im probably biased against a build that has so much acces to confusion.

engi complain about condi mesmer? common
if i cant interrupt your heal the game will go on and on
you basically have so many passive procs which helps you survive (shrink, cleanse, less dmg, boons, and stealth forever till healing skill rdy up again ….) while having good armor and hp many cc and combos

messiah.1908:

engi complain about condi mesmer? common

I’m just giving some of the reasons why people (me) hate fighting perplexity dire condi mesmers (source of the reason why people hate the build so much imo).
I’m aware of the fact that engi is a verry strong/versatile class, you dont have to tell me that. Every player gets carried by his build, some just more than others.

@bearshaman.3421 Pyro has indeed been posting here. Fay = Pyro.

@ Lexander- How many times are people going to have to shove this down you throat before you realize your spouting off nonsense? Portal, like Moa, is only useful if you have a good team. Which is why you rarely see multiple mesmers in high tier play. If your team cannot use either efficiently, the other team has a thief(or necro depending on the build the mesmer is running), or the mesmer just overall sucks then those skills are worthless and the team is better off with a thief.
No one here is denying they are not strong, but they are no where near as strong as you are trying to make out. Its like saying DH is OP when you literally can dodge all the traps. Or run away from most condi mesmers. Since you know, unless they have Chrono theyre slow as kitten and you can literally auto run away from them.
Which goes back to the whole idea of this. Mesmer did not have a good showing in any of the recent metas until Chronobunker, which was one build not the class, and everyone flips their kitten because its “OP”. And because of this the class gets nerfed instead of the build. When in reality simply nerfing Quickness rezzing/stomping would plus a few other small adjustments would have lead to most teams dropping mesmer in favor of other classes due to the one major TEAM benefit it brought. Since you cannot cap a point while using Distortion and prenerf WoP gave distortion as does f4 a lot of caps would potentially be lost. But people, like yourself, overreact and scream OP at something they do not like and it gets wasted. Not just the build, but the class.
Condi has always been a go to build for Hotjoin/Unranked play because.. Well lets be honest, Mesmer in general kills newbs and condi just makes it easier. In both those arenas most players are testing builds/hardly have any cleanse and condi rips through them like butter.
However, in higher tier Ranked play you see a lot more condi clear and coordinated team play which efftectively negates the two conditions that mesmer will be applying. You say Confusion/Torment are the strongest conditions in the game. I disagree, for that honor goes to burning. Burning isnt conditional like confusion or torment to do the most damage and even a few stacks can wipe out most classes if left unattended. Now, which class has horrific access to burning? Mesmer. We cannot stack burning well at all because staff is RNG and torch is unreliable. So that leaves the other two conditions. Both of which can be applied through shatters(highly avoidable), a scepter block(Torment and this is a L2P issue), and Confusing Images(also avoidable again l2p). If any of these “high” damaging attacks are avoided your are negating the majority of mesmer burst. There isnt anything OP here. If anything the current condi mesmer is balanced if not slightly underpowered.
As for Alacrity, LOL. Yeah it got nerfed, so please go some where else with that. To get decent self stacks you have to devote an entire trait line and utility bar just for it. You lose as much as you gain.

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

because mesmer has easy access to the most damaging conditions – torment and confusion

and after they apply 5 stacks of confusion and 7 stacks of torment while hiding in stealth or spamming blind preventing counter-attack they just spam their endless defensive cds while you take 1.5k damage per second

Sounds like somebody has no idea how to fight a condie mesmer, refuses to learn, and as a result ends up eating dirt every time he sees one.

Might I offer the advice of….l2p?

what a pathetic attempt of a personal attack, most definitely i dont lose to them

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

if salty mesmer mains cant accept they are unable to play the class without the unkillable chronobunker build they can always reroll to scrapper or rev

If salty thief mains can’t accept that they have no functional reason to ever lose to a mesmer unless they’re bad, they can always uninstall the game.

never said i lose to mesmers, my build excels in 1v1

Sure, whatever you say.

If you actually never lost to mesmers, you wouldn’t be here whining about them. Obviously there’s a little bit of defensive fabrication going on.

im here because im worried for the state of game’s health

Because Mesmers are definitely the linchpin with the state of the game’s health.

And not Eles, Revenants, or Scrappers.

None of those 3 classes need their forums trolled or anything.

No no. The deciding factor in this new meta is mesmer.

well if anet nerfed terrible mechanics in mesmer’s class they could probably buff something else which has counterplay and is not so unfun to play against

ironic statement coming from a thief main.

Condi mesmer is cancer for this game, but:
- Thieves with their perma evade aren’t.
- Thieves with their spammy 6-10k damage skills aren’t.
- Thieves with their condi trap stealth builds aren’t.
- Necros with 50k health pool and +10 stacks of poison, chill and bleeding aren’t.
- Engis with their ridiculous amount of passive things and skill spamming aren’t.
- Auramancers with their ridiculous amount of healing, plus tons of damage reductions and skill spamming aren’t.
- Trap guard with their invisible burst aren’t.
- Druids with their perma healing aren’t.

Get over it. Nowadays condi mesmer is far from being OP, neither is more cancer than tons of builds out there. It is only OKish for dueling, but fails when more people is involved.
And still people hate it because they aren’t skill enough to know how to deal with confusion or torment…

F5, Portal, F4…? Seriously those things are OP, skills with 75-90s of CD are OP?
Please, give me a skill of 5s CD that bursts 6-8k damage in a single hit, totally balanced…

Backstab Cooldown via animations to gain stealth/revealed (minimum 3.5-4.25/4.5-5.25s, minimum 6 initiative, degen rate sustained use implies 25% increased cooldown per use up to 7.25s minimum based on D/D max pre-casting). Only Blinding Powder utility can reduce this to a true 3s/4s cooldown every 40s.

True Shot (DH) 4s – higher damage than backstab.

Traited GF war (4.25) – higher damage than backstab, identical cooldown in sPvP.

Coalescence of Ruin (Rev) (4s) – higher damage than backstab.

Maul (ranger) – still 6-8k burst depending on build, cooldown reduced to < 5s.

Dragon’s Tooth – similar damage to backstab, 6s CD un-traited.

Death Shroud AA chain (traited DPH Spite ‘n’ Might core power necro) – easy 6-8k hits via might stacking (got mine to 14-16k in WvW) – 1s cast/CD.

Gravedigger – up to 1.25s CD depending on reset proc. Traited < 6s.

There are a lot of skills that can easily burst for substantial damage on similarly-low cooldowns. I’m not understanding the explicit thief hate in your post, Ansau.

And then there are all of the brief multi-hit skills which do even more damage like RF, blurred frenzy, Unload, UA, ZD, wrath, everything on scrapper, death’s charge, soul spiral, volley, MR, grenade engi, life transfer, GC… just to name a few.

DeceiverX.8361:

Backstab Cooldown via animations to gain stealth/revealed (minimum 3.5-4.25/4.5-5.25s, minimum 6 initiative, degen rate sustained use implies 25% increased cooldown per use up to 7.25s minimum based on D/D max pre-casting). Only Blinding Powder utility can reduce this to a true 3s/4s cooldown every 40s.

True Shot (DH) 4s – higher damage than backstab.

Traited GF war (4.25) – higher damage than backstab, identical cooldown in sPvP.

Coalescence of Ruin (Rev) (4s) – higher damage than backstab.

Maul (ranger) – still 6-8k burst depending on build, cooldown reduced to < 5s.

Dragon’s Tooth – similar damage to backstab, 6s CD un-traited.

Death Shroud AA chain (traited DPH Spite ‘n’ Might core power necro) – easy 6-8k hits via might stacking (got mine to 14-16k in WvW) – 1s cast/CD.

Gravedigger – up to 1.25s CD depending on reset proc. Traited < 6s.

There are a lot of skills that can easily burst for substantial damage on similarly-low cooldowns. I’m not understanding the explicit thief hate in your post, Ansau.

And then there are all of the brief multi-hit skills which do even more damage like RF, blurred frenzy, Unload, UA, ZD, wrath, everything on scrapper, death’s charge, soul spiral, volley, MR, grenade engi, life transfer, GC… just to name a few.

Because they are trying to make a point to a thief main?
I mean, yes, there are multiple skills that can do that much damage however, they are trying to relate it to a thief. Which wont work well since the one in question is thick skulled.
Also, I must be doing something wrong because I do well to get in the 3-5k range with Blurred Frenzy and that is with Berserker Amulet and Scholar Runes. So how are you getting more than 8k on BF? Plus burning that to use offensively in a Pshatter build when in most cases you’ll need it for defensive is not always a good idea.

The coefficient is higher on BF than backstab.

What a lot of people seriously fail to recognize is that traits often make up for more than half of the thief’s damage, up to almost 80% of it depending on build; the damage comes at the cost of sacrificing defenses because those defensive options are pretty much objectively horrible.

You’re likely not running a trait setup conducive to ramping BF damage. I played a S/S mesmer a long time ago built on BF and got its damage to peak around 6-7k per cast when combo’d correctly. Further, it depends heavily on the format; an 8k backstab in sPvP is actually on the high end and implies the use of sub-optimal trait choices or external might stacking. in WvW 8k is average/low, but so is a 6-7k BF.

Fay.2357:

bearshaman.3421:

You’re talking to someone who hasn’t posted in this thread. 0_o

cough

Fay = Pyro? Or am I missing something?

Edit: Just read Jace Al Thor’s post. Got it.

Lexander.4579:

hold on, so simply because you have to plan which skills you use in the next few seconds before you get free cd resets on them makes F5 bad? or difficult to use? that sounds about as difficult as pressing 5-2 with d/p thief

Sounds like you haven’t tried it. It’s not that easy to use in any kind of firefight. Most often you get a couple good skills off and a couple trash skills, and then you get rewound. A really good preparation might pull off a full nova, but that takes some serious strategic prep, and a willingness not to use longer-cooldown skills while f5 is on cooldown.

Then also, you haven’t been talking about it like that, you’ve been talking about it like it just resets your skills, like some magic “press x to win!” button. Yeah, it’s not that. It’s good, but it’s not even close to that good.

It’s on a long cooldown, so it’s not something you get a lot. Think more “Daggerstorm” than “Basilisk Venom.”

You seem to have missed the part where I pointed out chronomancer gets no usable damage or defense traits. Let me reiterate. Chronomancer makes the mesmer hit less hard, and less able to take a hit. In exchange, the chrono gets extra tricks. No f5 = no chronomancer. No alacrity = no chronomancer. It’s hovering at the edge of optimal as it is, a little more nerf and people will just stop taking it in favor of solid damage boosts (domination/dueling) or durability (chaos).
It’s a good ability, but not THAT good.

DeceiverX.8361:

The coefficient is higher on BF than backstab.

What a lot of people seriously fail to recognize is that traits often make up for more than half of the thief’s damage, up to almost 80% of it depending on build; the damage comes at the cost of sacrificing defenses because those defensive options are pretty much objectively horrible.

You’re likely not running a trait setup conducive to ramping BF damage. I played a S/S mesmer a long time ago built on BF and got its damage to peak around 6-7k per cast when combo’d correctly. Further, it depends heavily on the format; an 8k backstab in sPvP is actually on the high end and implies the use of sub-optimal trait choices or external might stacking. in WvW 8k is average/low, but so is a 6-7k BF.

BF and backstab have the same coefficient: 2.4. The difference is that thief has a massive number of % damage modifiers that will generally add to backstab, and mesmer has zero. It’s not that people “aren’t running builds to maximize BF damage”…it’s that mesmer’s literally don’t have any damage amps outside of situational ones for shatters and lolmantras.

DeceiverX.8361:

Backstab Cooldown via animations to gain stealth/revealed (minimum 3.5-4.25/4.5-5.25s, minimum 6 initiative, degen rate sustained use implies 25% increased cooldown per use up to 7.25s minimum based on D/D max pre-casting). Only Blinding Powder utility can reduce this to a true 3s/4s cooldown every 40s.

True Shot (DH) 4s – higher damage than backstab.

Traited GF war (4.25) – higher damage than backstab, identical cooldown in sPvP.

Coalescence of Ruin (Rev) (4s) – higher damage than backstab.

Maul (ranger) – still 6-8k burst depending on build, cooldown reduced to < 5s.

Dragon’s Tooth – similar damage to backstab, 6s CD un-traited.

Death Shroud AA chain (traited DPH Spite ‘n’ Might core power necro) – easy 6-8k hits via might stacking (got mine to 14-16k in WvW) – 1s cast/CD.

Gravedigger – up to 1.25s CD depending on reset proc. Traited < 6s.

There are a lot of skills that can easily burst for substantial damage on similarly-low cooldowns. I’m not understanding the explicit thief hate in your post, Ansau.

And then there are all of the brief multi-hit skills which do even more damage like RF, blurred frenzy, Unload, UA, ZD, wrath, everything on scrapper, death’s charge, soul spiral, volley, MR, grenade engi, life transfer, GC… just to name a few.

Thing is half of those come with a pretty decent cast time and/or very obvious animation. Additionally some of those classes like ranger, sceptre ele do poor damage outside that burst or have few attack options afterwards.

So it’s really not the whole picture as you also have to consider what classes can do in the mean time and that is ofc not mentioning the front loaded nature of BS. You’re good enough to know that a critical BS with a quick auto is enough to take a sizeable chunk of anyone especially if they only noticed the thief on the teleport/BS.

I certainly wouldn’t want BS to hit any harder than it already does like other “thief mains” call for, would pretty much delete a lot of classes from running offensive. Still I do agree there are many things that do large amounts of damage in short cool downs but not everything you mentioned is a problem because they have drawbacks and as others said, it’s directed mostly at Lexander as a thief main.

DeceiverX.8361:

Backstab Cooldown via animations to gain stealth/revealed (minimum 3.5-4.25/4.5-5.25s, minimum 6 initiative, degen rate sustained use implies 25% increased cooldown per use up to 7.25s minimum based on D/D max pre-casting). Only Blinding Powder utility can reduce this to a true 3s/4s cooldown every 40s.

True Shot (DH) 4s – higher damage than backstab.

Traited GF war (4.25) – higher damage than backstab, identical cooldown in sPvP.

Coalescence of Ruin (Rev) (4s) – higher damage than backstab.

Maul (ranger) – still 6-8k burst depending on build, cooldown reduced to < 5s.

Dragon’s Tooth – similar damage to backstab, 6s CD un-traited.

Death Shroud AA chain (traited DPH Spite ‘n’ Might core power necro) – easy 6-8k hits via might stacking (got mine to 14-16k in WvW) – 1s cast/CD.

Gravedigger – up to 1.25s CD depending on reset proc. Traited < 6s.

There are a lot of skills that can easily burst for substantial damage on similarly-low cooldowns. I’m not understanding the explicit thief hate in your post, Ansau.

And then there are all of the brief multi-hit skills which do even more damage like RF, blurred frenzy, Unload, UA, ZD, wrath, everything on scrapper, death’s charge, soul spiral, volley, MR, grenade engi, life transfer, GC… just to name a few.

First, my focus on thieves is because in this thread there’s a lot of mesmer whining coming from thief main players.

But second, while it is true other professions also have 1 button=insane burst skills, it is also true thief is the king here. Not only because they can have access to a lot of these skills, also because they can spam them, as those don’t have CD, but even more, because a lot of them have little to no animation or they’re masked by stealth or in the overall fast, evasive and unpredictable thief animation (compare them to izerker, blurred frenzy, Dragon Tooth, animations)
Backstab, Heartseeker, Shadow Strike, Unload, Sneak Attack, Vault, Weakening Charge, Pistol Whip, Flanking Strike, Shadow shot…

And third, it’s not my problem thieves have several builds that are not healthy for the game. Builds that exploit some mechanics (stealth, evades, combat mobility, condi burst) to a point it becomes frustrating, as other professions have to use it more wisely, while thieves can abuse them by spamming.

Saying that, I don’t find thieves harder to play against as other professions, like scrappers, reapers or revs (which have their kind of annoyance as mesmer mechanics are much less effective).
The thing is, by analysing the fights, I realise the success of a thief comes more from the performance of the build than the player’s gameplay. A skill doing insane amount of damage or the spamming of evasive skills is what gives thieves the winning a lot of times.

The only thing thieves have a right to complain is in the role they’re performing, because they don’t have anything more than single target damage.