Guild Wars 2

Bit of brainstorming, maybe we should do this with every weapon.

Thinking about what feels write and wrong with this weapon.
Based on a PvE point of view:

Spatial Surge: Fine.
Mirror Blade: Sort of fine (a bit random, but this seems to be part of the class design). Would like to see the last bounce of the sword to explode, damaging targets in a fair area (would help a bit with tagging and aoe in general) and maybe grand a random boon to nearby allies.
Mind Stab: Very limited use. Would prefer to have an attack like the new Shatterer, that moves away in a line from the Mesmer hitting everything on it’s way.
Phantasmal Berserker: Well, looks sort of OK right now.
Illusionary Wave: Very limited use. Damage is too low to tag anything (even in full zerker gear and glass cannon), most elites and bosses are immun. Maybe it should have an additional short leap (teleport) backwards so it would not be a total waste of a skill in most of the challenging fights…

Just my thoughts. Would also like to hear the PvP point of view.

Spatial Surge: it fine

Mirror Blade: does need a bit of reworking.

Mind Stab: just go back to the drawing board plz.

Phantasmal Berserker: Really awesome skills, esp if you got a control/tank build.

Illusionary Wave: Only good for control/tank builds, pretty much. However with those builds this skill can be use to great effect.

I actually don’t mind Mind Stab due to animation cancelling.

1-4-2-3 Where you cast everything at…. 75/95/85 of the cast bar to utilize speed. I also bound a key to press Esc so I can 1spam, but it’s not super effective in PvP, even with the bind.

I’d be happier with Mind Stab if it removed more than one boon. Apparently mesmers are supposed to deal well with enemy boons. But unless you spec Shattered Concentration, we only have one decent way to deal with them (Arcane Thievery) and two crap ways to deal with them (Mind Stab and the sword’s third autoattack).

Not freezing us in place when we use it would also be nice.

The MH Sword’s Mind Stab is actually excellent for stripping boons, because Sword Clones also use it. The GS’s Mind Stab however is indeed a joke.

Null Field and Phantasmal Disenchanter also removes boons: the latter removes two boons every hit so it’s actually quite effective as well.

Nikku.3562:

I’d be happier with Mind Stab if it removed more than one boon. Apparently mesmers are supposed to deal well with enemy boons. But unless you spec Shattered Concentration, we only have one decent way to deal with them (Arcane Thievery) and two crap ways to deal with them (Mind Stab and the sword’s third autoattack).

Not freezing us in place when we use it would also be nice.

It used to be a hit your target skill and aoe around them. Apparently that’s op when it still only removes 1 boon.

I don’t mind having it be a skill shot, but make it remove a lot of boons or steal them or something.

Convert them into conditions would be nice (a specific condition for a specific boon type, and it would pick a boon that would get “deleted” and convert it instead. Duration stays the same, and stacks stay the same)

Esplen.3940:

Convert them into conditions would be nice (a specific condition for a specific boon type, and it would pick a boon that would get “deleted” and convert it instead. Duration stays the same, and stacks stay the same)

That’s actually a really nice idea. Trash the damage and give one condition per boon stripped. Then I’d like to see the conditions try to make a unique one until each has been given so that you can get even stacks of each condition. Creates a more or less predictable effect based on information you already know from the UI that can counter boon spamming builds.

But regardless, that’s a much more interesting idea than the current “maybe it’ll hit, and maybe it will strip one boon, and do almost no damage while I’m getting wailed on” kind of skill it is now.

I don’t know, corrupting boons into conditions is more Necro territory. I’m fine with the Mesmer just having boon stripping: if Mind Stab removed them all at once that would be dandy and would be more fitting the vision of the Mesmer having lots of boon removal, rather than just on the MH Sword.

Everything’s fine for me except Mind Stab.
Illusionary Wave is absolutely godly to push mobs off a downed ally or to interrupt bosses like the Powersuit when he heals, the Golem in COE when he starts spinning, the final bosses of AC explo before they scream, etc…

Of course, greatsword alone lacks a lot of things but that’s why you have two weaponsets. I mostly use it when we engage combat to do a quick berserker+mirrorblade then I swap it for sword/focus and only ever take the greatsword back for those “oh kitten” moments or when I have to interrupt.

Mind Stab: Remove the number of boons based on illusion/clones that is currently out and not just one.

I like that last one… I like the greatsword for the vuln and the beserker. So synergic with the greater distance the greater damage… Also if you are traited right dodging and continuing to kite are really easy with a GS. I like never use a staff.

jportell.2197:

I like that last one… I like the greatsword for the vuln and the beserker. So synergic with the greater distance the greater damage… Also if you are traited right dodging and continuing to kite are really easy with a GS. I like never use a staff.

Yeah, the damage is nice while leveling, but once you get to 80 and start grouping for things, the utility off of Staff is so much nicer. Plus stacking Warlocks vs bosses is super nice, especially with Ele’s and Necros’.

Mind stab in Beta was single target w/ splash Dmg and a daze!

^THAT was sexy! but I guess they found it to OP (why are Dazes OP when we have a trait line DESIGNED to utilize them? We have like 5 but so few worth using or are redundant. One is a stun before the daze, two are just not reliable, 4th is not viable, and the last is a shatter on a base 45 sec C/D)

But I loved Mind stab single target with AoE effect. Frankly it was more reliable. They may have found a daze OP with a knock back but the effect leaves a bit to be desired IMO.

Or should be a nice AoE spike as bigs as chaos storm!

Overall, I really like the GS. Goes very well with mantra traits.
As for skills, they all good except Mind Stab and Illusionary Wave.

Mind Stab is fine, but we need an bigger AoE and remove ALL boons or more boons.
Illusionary Wave is crap. When I move while doing it or when monsters are too close, it never works. I have to root myself then do Illusionary Wave to make it work. It needs polishing.

The Daze itself wasn’t OP, what was “OP” was the fact that the GS had two interrupts; which made it the go-to choice for interrupt builds.

Personally, I think IW has excellent synergy with skill 1. I mean, knock foes away= dealing more damage. Add in the interrupt factor, and the skill is pretty win.

I feel like a lot of the complaints about Mind Stab are PvP-based specifically. I would like it a bit better if it targeted a larger area, but that’s about it IMO.

I started with staff then switched to GS, and I think its well balanced. I would love the mind stab change, but only a bit larger Area.

I’d love Mind stab to be a blast finisher. Please Anet, make it happen. I’m sure Quaggans want it too.

Greatsword has been my weapon of choice for Mesmers since I was like level 50.

Mind Stab doesn’t bother me anymore, it did for the first few weeks. Last two months or so though I’ve found more uses for it. The boon removal is useful, even if unreliable. I’ve used it to strip retaliation off bosses so many times that I would otherwise just kill myself from retaliation. Though it’d be awesome if it was a blast finisher, the prestige on torch is a pain in the kitten to synergize with fields.
Even in wvw though, I can land Mind Stab without much difficulty, and it does have it’s uses.

I can’t imagine why Illusionary Wave is considered limited use, it’s one of my favourite attacks. The cooldown sucks but the knockback is endlessly useful. An AOE knockback even better.

The AOE burst damage possibilities with Greatsword are awesome if you synergize it well with shatters.

EnRohbi.2187:

Greatsword has been my weapon of choice for Mesmers since I was like level 50.

Mind Stab doesn’t bother me anymore, it did for the first few weeks. Last two months or so though I’ve found more uses for it. The boon removal is useful, even if unreliable. I’ve used it to strip retaliation off bosses so many times that I would otherwise just kill myself from retaliation. Though it’d be awesome if it was a blast finisher, the prestige on torch is a pain in the kitten to synergize with fields.
Even in wvw though, I can land Mind Stab without much difficulty, and it does have it’s uses.

I can’t imagine why Illusionary Wave is considered limited use, it’s one of my favourite attacks. The cooldown sucks but the knockback is endlessly useful. An AOE knockback even better.

The AOE burst damage possibilities with Greatsword are awesome if you synergize it well with shatters.

Thank you I completely agree with everything there. And in my melee setup I use S/P How do people like that coupled with a greatsword?

Just make mind stab a blast finisher.

- Auto attack should have its range thing removed. No reason for it at all. Zero.

- Mirror Blade could be the answer to the lack of AoE mesmers have. It just needs to favor enemies instead of allies. As it is right now if we have two allies facing two enemies the skill will hit the enemy and then bounce back and forth between the allies. Yes, it is nice to give stacks of Might to allies, but it does not help a mesmer’s lack of AoE nor does giving boons to allies help us get loot by tagging. And I also doubt that 3 stacks of Might really add up to 2k+ damage from a bounce.

What it should do is favor enemies instead. Obviously, but this seems to much to expect, it should favor enemies it has not hit, but barring that if we are two allies facing two enemies it should bounce between the enemies instead of the allies. No stacks of Might but direct damage is applied. If there is only one enemy, like a boss, then it should bounce properly from boss to random ally and back to boss instead of hitting the boss once and then spreading itself against all allies in range.

This single change would, IMO, help a lot with AoE woes.

- Mind Stab is… okay. No, really, it’s okay. The boon stripping is what I use it the most, but it’s fairly useless at that. When I fight Dredge who buff themselves they get four buffs and on less Boon every 15 seconds is bof. Auto attack does about the same damage with no chance of missing. Where I do use it when two two or more enemies are close together since I will do more damage with it than auto-attacking. But for one mob alone there is no point.

- Berserker is plenty fine just the way it is.

- The knockback wave I rarely remember to use it. It has too large a CD and tbh, mobs don’t stay on their back for noticeable amount of time nor does the knockback really push them that much. If it did knockback and cripple it would certainly be worth using.

Mind stab is really the kittentiest skill on any mesmer’s bar.

There are extremely few situations where it is a good idea to root yourself down to mind stab something or someone.

What Anet should do is scrap the laughable 1 boon removal, and triple it’s range. Keep the root, cause we don’t want mesmers to be OP duh.

That way we finally have a half-decent AoE, and we might actually start using GS3 once in a while.

Anet has made it pretty clear though that they are not willing to make any substantial changes to the classes ever, so all this amazing feedback falls on indifferent ears.

mind stab: worst mesmer skill from all weapons/utility skills

Embolism.8106:

The Daze itself wasn’t OP, what was “OP” was the fact that the GS had two interrupts; which made it the go-to choice for interrupt builds.

and now, what is the interrupter weapon? NONE but we still keep the traits made for interrupter builds… talk about a waste of Traits.

If Mind Stab gave an AoE cripple or blind/stun (1sec) that would be sweet. As for being OP for interrupt builds- we have very few useable interrupts unless you spec yourself completely around them; pistol#5 and gs#5 are about it, maybe OH sword#4 and focus but you’ll notice they are all on the secondary weapons so the most you’ll have available is two, both with longish cooldowns. Of course you can introduce shatters but again, #3 and #4 are on long cooldowns.

I dont want to use it… But I’m a straight up monster with it. I really like the cripple from iZerker. Helps with the lack of swiftness. I use GS/ staff shatter 20, 20, 0,0, 30

Some really good ideas on this thread. Hopefully Anet will check it out and pick up on one of them ^^

A lot of good feedback. Hope some at ANet will see it, but I fear they are all on holidays… ^^

I’d prefer the aoe of GS3 be made much larger with multiple GS spikes. This would be great to allow us to actually do something in a siege.

GS is near the edge of being ridiculously powerful in pvp and you guys think it needs a boost?

A lot of good feedback indeed. :P

Reduce Mind Stab damage by 50% and have it strip 2 boons instead of 1.

Solved.

Edit:

The blast finisher suggestion is also an effective and elegant solution.

jalmari.3906:

GS is near the edge of being ridiculously powerful in pvp and you guys think it needs a boost?

A lot of good feedback indeed. :P

Lmao, guardian forums are that way —-→
Mesmer GS is well balanced if you consider it only has 4 skills that are commonly used.

What are some of you smoking!? i want some lol Illusionary Wave is amazing skill for pve and even better for pvp. As i mentioned in another thread, i would like Mind Stab to become a 5sec aoe skill that bursts blades of the ground (same animation as we have but multiple blades this time) and apply one or two stack of bleeds (5-7sec) per burst.

EasymodeX.4062:

Reduce Mind Stab damage by 50% and have it strip 2 boons instead of 1.

Solved.

Edit:

The blast finisher suggestion is also an effective and elegant solution.

I like this first suggestion. Right now, GS3 is rarely used – this would make it more useful. Think someone also mentioned making it more effective against siege – that would make it more situationally useful as well, without making it OP or unbalanced.

Dhampyr that solution is only viable in pvp and would nerf #3 into oblivion in pve. There is little point in having a combo finisher unless u have utilities with fields/ fields on a weapon swap which, i admit, most people would have :p If it was a blast finisher though there would be no benefit to the mesmer as GS is a ranged weapon :/

Funky.4861:

Dhampyr that solution is only viable in pvp and would nerf #3 into oblivion in pve. There is little point in having a combo finisher unless u have utilities with fields/ fields on a weapon swap which, i admit, most people would have :p If it was a blast finisher though there would be no benefit to the mesmer as GS is a ranged weapon :/

Would be nice to have combo finishers other than leap. The amount of leap we have isn’t bad, don’t get me wrong, but actually having a relialable blast finisher would make my Mesmer.

If they’d bring back i-Zerker’s damage back to before they made him useless(i use that term lightly) and make GS#3 a blast finisher or be actually useful, i’d even consider using it again in a 20/20/0/0/30 build, or at all.

Funky.4861:

There is little point in having a combo finisher unless u have utilities with fields/ fields on a weapon swap…(snip)

Of which, the mesmer has 4 AMAZING fields, three of which aren’t weapon specific. Null field is our best condition removal. Feedback is just amazing support in pvp and high tier pve where mobs hit like trucks. Time Warp is just Time Warp. And Chaos Storm is just fantastic support.

And if you want to be more specific, three of those 4 fields will generally always be placed on top of you (feedback would require your target to be on top of you). That means that you can ensure every single use of mind stab would give aoe chaos armor to you and your party. And that’s only comboing off your own fields.

So why would it suck in pve again?

Nixon: lol, u cut out the very part in my post which you try to use against me…gg.

Whilst i think that our fields are good i wouldn’t say they are amazing (randomness would like to shake your hand) and feedback’s main effect (imo) is to reflect projectiles so it’s cast on the target, not yourself.

Our fields are amazing. Chaos storm is a bit meh at times, but the others have little randomness to them. I’d kill for for blast finisher on something other than the prestige.

As a general observation, there’s no rule that says the value of a finisher is measured by the fields that the same weapon or class is able to use.

The core concept of a field and combo finisher is for teamplay between players.

The entire Warrior class, for example, is chock-full of combo finishers but they only have 1 field.

Chaos armor alone is pretty nifty. Combo’ing it for other effects would be even better.

personally I hate gs for mesmer, but im weird and its only me, I use sword/pistol staff and bunker build

Mind stab is only one that needs tweaking..

1. Leave it as in, but double the aoe range
2. Leave range same, but have it strip boons
3. Leave range same but have it strip boon, copy to you and allies in 400 unit range

Make mind stab a target bound AE again and dont touch anything else about it imo

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Bit of brainstorming, maybe we should do this with every weapon.

Thinking about what feels write and wrong with this weapon.
Based on a PvE point of view:

Spatial Surge: Fine.
Mirror Blade: Sort of fine (a bit random, but this seems to be part of the class design). Would like to see the last bounce of the sword to explode, damaging targets in a fair area (would help a bit with tagging and aoe in general) and maybe grand a random boon to nearby allies.
Mind Stab: Very limited use. Would prefer to have an attack like the new Shatterer, that moves away in a line from the Mesmer hitting everything on it’s way.
Phantasmal Berserker: Well, looks sort of OK right now.
Illusionary Wave: Very limited use. Damage is too low to tag anything (even in full zerker gear and glass cannon), most elites and bosses are immun. Maybe it should have an additional short leap (teleport) backwards so it would not be a total waste of a skill in most of the challenging fights…

Just my thoughts. Would also like to hear the PvP point of view.

Spatial is amazing. It relies on zone control which is what Mesmers do best of any class. at ideal range it’s the strongest low risk pressure we provide. At mid range it’s so-so, at close range it’s bad. You should have an offset s/f or s/p for close though.

Mirror Blade is one of the highest raw damage over time attacks if you consider the cooldown. It’s 5 bounces if you’re spec’d to it, and hits 5 people under the right conditions. On the flip side, using it at close range is 6 stacks of might which is great as a transition to your off set for close range. It’s secretly the strongest GS ability.

Mind Stab is rubbish and should never be cast unless you specifically need the boon removal. We’re a zoning control class, so stationary casting is the absolute last thing you should do.

Berserker is potentially amazing, but still solid on single target in PvP. High DPCT.

Illusionary wave is amazing, for the same reason mesmers are. It’s pure zone control. Used optimally, you’re instantly setting the fight back to 1100 range. It’s vital in the ele, warrior, thief, guardian matchups.

Greatsword is as good as staff after the illusion Wind of Chaos changes even if they’re almost opposite in their roles. Spec dependent of course, but if you’re not running offensive shatter, then you’re playing the class wrong.

Spec dependent of course, but if you’re not running offensive shatter, then you’re playing the class wrong.

Trying not to derail the thread, but honestly, you can’t say “x class HAS to run x spec” or you are playing wrong..

Mind Stab is one of my favorite attacks in the game animation-wise, so any buffs to it would be A-OK in my book.

More boon stripping definately sounds good. 1 boon removed just isn’t very impressive, at least not on the moderate cooldown the skill currently has. 2 would be better but still reasonable. Or they could reduce the cooldown on the skill to around 8 seconds so that, while it still wouldn’t remove many boons at once, it could be used to repeatedly strip away boons at a decent pace. Not an in-mass boon counter (which Mesmer already has a few of), but rather something to keep a single boon at bay over time.

Damage increase / AoE increase would also be helpful, though I don’t think that those alone are the way to go. Maybe a moderate AoE decrease along with cooldown reduction.

Blast finisher would be nice in theory, but… 3 different finishers on a single weapon (considering that Berserker is a whirl finisher) seems like it might be too much. I can’t think of a single weapon off the top of my head that has that many different finishers, and only a couple very specific mainhand/offhand combos (Ranger Sword / Axe comes to mind). Number of finishers isn’t nessicarily a balance problem, but it could be something to devs consider and try to limit.

Electro.4173:

Maybe a moderate AoE decrease along with cooldown reduction.

The cooldown is the problem? You are already using it on cooldown, and want to use it even more frequently?

Mind Stab is rubbish and should never be cast unless you specifically need the boon removal. We’re a zoning control class, so stationary casting is the absolute last thing you should do.

It’s also good raw damage against multiple targets when they stack to rez, which is basically every 10 seconds in WvW.

It also only stops you from moving for a half second.

Greatsword is 95% fine. Fix Scepter (Skill#1 – clones) and Torch (iMage) please.