Guild Wars 2

Until recently, there was a thread in the Game Bugs forum regarding the Gap Closer on Mesmer Sword 3 (ILeap/Swap). There were 3 bugs noted with the skill.

Bug 1: ILeap was not applying cripple. This has been fixed.

Bug 2: ILeap was not affected by Blade Training (20% cooldown reduction). This is still not fixed, but it was indicated that this issue will be fixed as of the 3/26 patch.

“Bug” 3: The clone for ILeap gets stuck on random terrain (stairs, rocks, sticks, slight inclines) and fails to perform correctly. This, apparently, is NOT considered a bug, as it it is “part of the game’s design.”

My position: If the game’s system limitations prevent a skill from functioning properly, then either the game’s limitations need to be looked at and fixed, or the skill needs to be adjusted in order to make the skill function within the game’s limitations. However, according to an official posting, they do not have plans to change this.

The purpose of this thread is to come up with a list of suggestions to put in the “Suggestion” forum, as recommended by the aforementioned posting. Here are a couple of the suggestions/solutions presented from the original thread:

1. Instead of having the clone from ILeap appear next to the caster and run at the target, cause the clone to appear next to the target. Since this is already done with several Phantasms, it shouldn’t be difficult to do with a clone. To prevent exploitation with getting into keeps and towers, force the clone to obey the same rules as blink. Can’t blink there? Can’t summon a clone there.

2. Instead of having the clone from ILeap run along the ground, simply replace its movement with a functional gap closer. Example: replace the clone’s current movement with “Heartseeker,” but with the damage modified down to typical clone damage.

I said it above, but this bears repeating. The person who designed this skill clearly was not aware that the system limitations precluded the functionality of the skill he/she was designing. When the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing, mistakes happen. When the mistakes are pointed out, it is important to reconcile the discrepancy between the skill and the system in which the skill operates.

With that in mind, and with the positive outlook that someone will (a) read the suggestion thread I eventually write and (b) will see that allowing a skill to remain broken is bad policy, let’s get some suggestions going in here!

*All quotes taken from Here

**edited for clarity

While we are aware of and working on number 1 & 2, number 3 is a technical limitation of our system and not a bug. Unfortunately, this is not something we can change as of this time.
Thank you for the reports! We hope to get these fixed in an upcoming patch.

You’ve misquoted nearly everything that you’ve tried to “quote” in your post.

The fix regarding #3 will happen, but it’s not something foreseeable because they’re trying to fix the rest of the game instead of overhauling the NPC/AI pathing to fix a few skills. It’s up to Arenanet to figure out what is important and should be patched in a patch and what should be fixed in a later patch, not the players. There will always be bugs in any game, so stop complaining and take what you can get.

You’ve got a pretty bad ’tude man, coming at a person looking for suggestions like that! Lighten up. I have misquoted nothing.

“As for the third point brought up by the OP, some of you have surmised that this is a pathing issue with NPCs, and you’re correct; unfortunately, this is a limitation of our system and one that we do not have plans to change at this time.

Since this is part of the game’s design, the bug forum is not the appropriate place to discuss it. If you have further suggestions or comments on this skill, feel free to continue this discussion in the Mesmer profession forum or the Suggestions forum. If this issue is not fixed with the next build, please create a new thread to report the issue."

Obviously it is up to ANet to decide what is important. Obviously, it is up to me to decide what I think is important, and to post it in the suggestions forum as suggested. If you don’t think it’s important, feel free to not provide any suggestions!

*Edited for spelling. Sheesh.

this is not something we can change as of this time

If you know why the clone is having the problem, then you wouldn’t really be posting here. It’s having the same problem as any other NPC. Why don’t you see bosses running up walls to get to people in cheesy areas? Why don’t you see mobs jumping past a rock to get to people on hills? That’s the same problem with the clone. To fix that, they would either have to make it so that NPC’s can bypass ground limitations and have the “boar charging up a hill” problem, or they can have an overhaul where they make it so that NPC’s can jump and then have to add in a method for figuring out where/when/how to make said NPC jump.

Additionally, the root of this problem is more than just a simply “change this to that” fix, as even the NPC’s that use Heartseeker strike can have the same problem. NPC’s have a knockback effect when you hit them, which will negate any and all movement through the use of a skill if hit while casting said skill. They also have their own LoS, as seen by PWarden’s moving (yes, you can get a PWarden to move if they lose LoS).

Lastly, the root of the problem is mainly in the fact that Arenanet decided to cut a corner and copy most of it’s engine and mechanics from GW1. If you look in most tonics and transformations you can’t jump. Why is that? Because in GW1 you couldn’t jump. If you pay closer attention, the tonics/transformations where you CAN jump are the tonics/transformations that only appear in GW2. Heck, the reason why Norn transformations can’t move while casting is because they follow the same skill system from GW1 where you stood still while casting.

P.S. If you think my post is “pretty bad ’tude” then you shouldn’t be posting a thread asking for suggestions about what to suggest. If you have a suggestion, you should post it. If you’re trying to find one, you should be willing to get any and all responses.

i think they don’t want to bandaid every skill that doesn’t function properly because of their systems limitations ( ileap, engineers magnet, guardians greatsword pull and probably a few others ) and i can understand that. however the response from the arenanet guy was beyond ridiculous, ofcourse it is a bug as i doubt it should function the way it does at the moment. if he would explain to us what the real problem is we might not be as upset. and for the “it’s a NPC/AI pathing issue” i can only call bullkitten since engineers magnet doesn’t pull NPCs but players and they get stuck halfway through the pull too.
i really hope they will do something about this and prioritize bugfixing over whatever else they have on their todo list.
i’m not entirely sure what the pathing issue really is but i doubt people would get upset if the pulled XY warps through the ground for a short time if it makes the skill work.
the “let the clone spawn near the target” suggestions is probably the best for iLeap but doesn’t help the other skills that are affected by this pathing problem.

Just have the immobilize happen at the target… i dont care what the littile clone does or where he runs to. hopefully he makes it to the party in time to shatter… just turn it into a shadowstep with an immobilize and a little shatterable clone kittenter fodder. ..

step one send out your clumsy error pathing clone towards your target… flat ground he makes it,, everything looks cool … great.! if its a hill let him go wherever he wants to on his way to the target…

step two swap. .. when you swap you shadowstep to the target…(not to the clone) aoe immobilize at the target.. your clone goes to where you started..nomatter where he ended up on his journey. ..

you still have the illusion of being replaced by a clone at your spot but you actually make it to your destination in the process.

i’ll bump this because i just realized this, if it would work as intended but you could maybe leap to someone on top of a tower/keep they would fix this immediately but since you can’t they don’t fix the problem

hoyasaxa.1974:

The person who designed this skill clearly was not aware that the system limitations precluded the functionality of the skill he/she was designing. When the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing, mistakes happen. When the mistakes are pointed out, it is important to reconcile the discrepancy between the skill and the system in which the skill operates.

Your superior logic has no place here.
;-)

I actually really like Zaxon’s idea. Granted, it won’t fix the NPC pathing issue (which apparently can’t be fixed), and it won’t fix other class skills that are equally small-catted, but it would be a fix. Simply untie our gap closer from the crummy NPC pathing, and problem solved! I’ll add that one to the list.

Ya know the best idea for this skill? Have the player be the one leaping and applying imobilize, leaving a clone in our place, with the second activation still swapping us with the clone (could use to dart in/out). Pathing issues are with NPCs not players. The skill could be like Savage Leap http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Savage_Leap

Also, while they are at it they could make it usable without a target (just wouldn’t create a clone without a target – similar to decoy) and we could even use it for mobility and comboing stealth with a friendly d/p thief!

A few thoughts for balance/functionality:

This skill is intentionally two-steps, one for cripple, one for immobilize. Given how much damage Mesmers can dish out at close range, the target needs the opportunity to at least dodge out of the way if caught by the cripply. So, I would be opposed to having ourselves being the one that leaps in and immediately immobilizes.

The clone also serves as a visual warning. Having the clone spawn at the target would eliminate this cue and unintentionally buffs the skill. It’s a great skill already, we just need it to function.

I support hoyasaxa’s second suggestion for the fix. Have the clone be a gap closer instead of a sprinter would keep iLeap balanced.

Edit: Just realized it’s probably not a gap closer now because clones are only programmed to press 1 every so many seconds. If all sword clones need to act the same way, giving them a gap closer could be difficult. Phantasms behave different though, but phantasms currently don’t exceed more than one per weapon bar. (I assume main-hand weaps intentionally don’t have them because all the off-hand weaps do.)

Ooh, I have a crazy idea… maybe the Illusionary Leap clone should you know… leap at people. A leap would ignore terrain issues. Functionally I think this would be a better fix and a bit more logical if your clone appeared, leaped at the opponent and then ‘swap’ would have you leap at the opponent and the clone leap at your old position, while slower and less effective then a blink switch this would work more for the confusion clones are supposed to give. If a second/third clone is out it should also leap to the place the first clone was doing cripple if it hits the opponent. Also you’d get the rush of a pouncing ninja o.o

“1. Instead of having the clone from ILeap appear next to the caster and run at the target, cause the clone to appear next to the target. Since this is already done with several Phantasms, it shouldn’t be difficult to do with a clone. To prevent exploitation with getting into keeps and towers, force the clone to obey the same rules as blink. Can’t blink there? Can’t summon a clone there.” This one would be just fine on it’s own, honestly. I would even by fine if they removed the damage (but not the cripple) since I mainly use it for gap closing anyway lol.

I agree with the, “I just need it to work as a gap closer” crowd. Now sometimes I have seen it do an anime-esque shunpo tactic where it would rapidly jump several times until it got to the target. It’s awesome and a possible fix for the pathing problem.

hoyasaxa.1974:

“Bug” 3: The clone for ILeap gets stuck on random terrain (stairs, rocks, sticks, slight inclines) and fails to perform correctly. This, apparently, is NOT considered a bug, as it it is “part of the game’s design.”

I came in here to start a thread about this then found this thread. This is not what I wanted to hear.

Its starting to frustrate me a lot seeing my clone fumble around only to stop short so I can’t snare the target.

please Anet perhaps his heartseeker bandaid fix might be the way to go. Look into it.