Guild Wars 2

Now that PU has been brought under control, it is time to revisit MTD damage. This trait was nerfed during the trait revamp patch from 2 stacks of torment for 6s to 1 stack of Torment for 6s, I would propose that the devs consider buffing this trait so that it provides 3 stacks of Torment for 3s.

-This would buff the potential damage of MTD to lie at 75% of its pre nerf value leaving room for future adjustment while recognizing that condition mesmers received dps buffs in other areas (confusion).

-Higher stacks and shorter duration fit more with the burst theme of shatter skills. Landing a full condition shatter should force a cleanse.

-Increasing the burst potential of condition mesmers will make more active, less stealth reliant condition builds more viable.

Anyways, I would be interested in the feedback of the mesmer community at large since I used to enjoy playing a non PU 2-2-0-0-6 condi shatter build in pvp and wvw but feel that non PU condi really got killed post trait revamp.

The problem is, what ANet doesn’t like about condi Mesmer is the burst from high stacks of Confusion and/or Torment. So, this suggestion is moving in exactly the opposite direction from where ANet is trying to go.

tobascodagama.2961:

The problem is, what ANet doesn’t like about condi Mesmer is the burst from high stacks of Confusion and/or Torment. So, this suggestion is moving in exactly the opposite direction from where ANet is trying to go.

I don’t think anyone knows where Anet is trying to go, with the “possible” exception of Anet themselves.

That being said, whatever it is they want, all they achieved is to gut a previously “decent” trait into neigh uselessness. There was and is no remotely competitive Condition Mesmer build without the old MTD, and even with it it was highly debateable that a Condie Shatter build was really competitive.

The nerf was completely unneeded and very knee-jerk. It was also extremely heavy-handed. That needs to be undone.

Now I personally favor 2x Torment for 3-4 seconds. That’s still a huge nerf to the old MtD, but it’s more of a nerf to potential total damage output, rather than the nerf we have now which absolutely neutered actual realistic damage output by 50%.

By cutting duration in half, you’d still have a 50% damage nerf over time, but would leave MtD’s deadliness of short-duration burst Condition damage for people whom are both too stupid to stop moving and not use cleanses. Surely, Anet intended Torment to do just that.

What we have now is that most classes can simple safely ignore Torment damage completely unless they happened to get hit with the Scepter #2 on top of fully eating a shatter burst or two.

Most classes also are able to completely negate most Mesmer Condition damage output via completely passive Condition removal.

Another option would be to give back the +50% Torment damage on moving targets for MtD that Anet had originally intended with the recent overhaul patch. That would actually be a very interesting way to improve MtD without undoing the current nerf. This would merely strengthen the original design intent behind the Torment condition; you move, you die. Period.

The fact is, people are running around in Torment with near impunity, unless they get massive stacks on them in very short duration. (Or with lots of cover conditions, which we largely lack, especially in the AE variety.)

In fact both Confusion and Torment currently lack in the punishment they give for completely avoidable action. While burns are left with literally no counter-play aside from cleanses, these two conditions have very effective and intuitive counter-play options, and still do less DPS in the worst-case scenario then Burns do. Pathetic!

tobascodagama.2961:

The problem is, what ANet doesn’t like about condi Mesmer is the burst from high stacks of Confusion and/or Torment. So, this suggestion is moving in exactly the opposite direction from where ANet is trying to go.

That is all fine and well, but then how do we buff sustained condition damage for mesmer? Duelists discipline was nerfed before it even hit the ground in its proper form and phantasms are supposed to be our source of sustained damage. I really don’t think that ANet knows what it wants at all. Either that or the devs have a very shallow understanding of the professions that they created. But I guess this is not news to most mesmers.

p.s. I think it would be better for the game if Anet allowed condi burst in mesmer since our sustained condi sources are incredibly passive i.e. spamming staff clones and duelists.

I’d rather see Cry of Frustration be given 1 stack of torment per illusion for 6 seconds base.

And leave MtD at one stack.

This provides one Condi “burst” shatter button in F2 without making every other shatter button into simple faceroll for huge condition stacks.

In addition to this, the Confusing Combatants trait can be restored instead of the Fury trait – which will not benefit people running Dire or anything ridiculously tanky with low precision in wvw as it requires crits to proc confusion. It will also benefit non native condition weapons allowing greater variety and flexibility in builds.

I believe those two changes would be a good start to making Condi shatter competitive while maintaining some constraints on gameplay.

Curunen.8729:

I’d rather see Cry of Frustration be given 1 stack of torment per illusion for 6 seconds base.

And leave MtD at one stack.

This provides one Condi “burst” shatter button in F2 without making every other shatter button into simple faceroll for huge condition stacks.

In addition to this, the Confusing Combatants trait can be restored instead of the Fury trait – which will not benefit people running Dire or anything ridiculously tanky with low precision in wvw as it requires crits to proc confusion. It will also benefit non native condition weapons allowing greater variety and flexibility in builds.

I believe those two changes would be a good start to making Condi shatter competitive while maintaining some constraints on gameplay.

I am Alpha, and I approve this message.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Curunen.8729:

I’d rather see Cry of Frustration be given 1 stack of torment per illusion for 6 seconds base.

And leave MtD at one stack.

This provides one Condi “burst” shatter button in F2 without making every other shatter button into simple faceroll for huge condition stacks.

In addition to this, the Confusing Combatants trait can be restored instead of the Fury trait – which will not benefit people running Dire or anything ridiculously tanky with low precision in wvw as it requires crits to proc confusion. It will also benefit non native condition weapons allowing greater variety and flexibility in builds.

I believe those two changes would be a good start to making Condi shatter competitive while maintaining some constraints on gameplay.

I am Alpha, and I approve this message.

Agreed, great suggestions there!

Curunen.8729:

I’d rather see Cry of Frustration be given 1 stack of torment per illusion for 6 seconds base.

And leave MtD at one stack.

This provides one Condi “burst” shatter button in F2 without making every other shatter button into simple faceroll for huge condition stacks.

X / +1

I like this idea a lot!

What about something like high stacks of bleed or maybe poison (although it doesnt make a lot of sense) so that way we it isnt burst from just confusion or torment

Loony.3714:

What about something like high stacks of bleed or maybe poison (although it doesnt make a lot of sense) so that way we it isnt burst from just confusion or torment

Well, if they make our sources of burning not suck, we should be fine for cover condis at that point.

Specifically, torch is terrible for anything but stealth, and the burning from Winds of Chaos didn’t get updated when burning did.

So increase duration on burning from Winds of Chaos to 2s maybe, increase burning from iMage to 2 stacks at 5 seconds (or even 3 stacks at 3s), decrease iMage cooldown to 22s, move the blast finisher on The Prestige to when the skill activates (just don’t let it trigger revealed), and we should be good. Then we’d have access to decent burning, bleeding, confusion and torment, which along with our blinds should be enough depth to get by.

Unfortunately, I think Mesmer is back to where the majority of GW2 players likes it, in Meh condition. This last set of nerfs just proves it. Some skills (phase retreat, izerker, etc) stay broken for months, but as soon as they give mesmers a little buff and BOOM the 50% nerf bat comes out Again in weeks or even days.(DD?) lol . and the 50% nerf to everything (confusion, retal. stealth, ect.) flys in the face of why they made HP so much higher than GW1. It was supposed to be so they could “fine tune” skills and dam. by making “small tweaks” to skills, well 50% again and again and now again does not feel like a small tweak, and shows that they do listen to the QQ and cowtow to pressure, Its a lot easier to crush the mes. community since its only about 9% of player base than listen to the other 91%