Guild Wars 2

4/4/0/0/6 is still my favorite option. The boon removal is great against elis, warriors, guards, engis and thieves who use plasma. Works great with carrion gear and sword for the extra damage but i still prefer rabid. The extra toughness allows you to take a few hits/make a few mistakes.

fluxit.8247:

4/4/0/0/6 is still my favorite option. The boon removal is great against elis, warriors, guards, engis and thieves who use plasma. Works great with carrion gear and sword for the extra damage but i still prefer rabid. The extra toughness allows you to take a few hits/make a few mistakes.

i am also undecided between 4,4,0,0,6 with boon removal as group support or
x,4,2,x,6 – 2 point can go where you like
i tried few roles in team arena
home keeper – usually they send thief/mesmer/ranger to cap it and while i can sit on the point they cant so 4,4,0,06 wont help me much with boon removal (only regen is the boon you want to remove). so i used 0,4,4,0,6 . if they send 2 i will call for backup but i can hold for 10-30 sec b4 the point is uncontested (engi are hard counter to point holder)
if i am far capping (usually not alone and depend on the enemy split) 4,4,0,0,6 may be more helpful but if its 1v1 usually i prefer 0,4,4,0,6 or if massive codni pressure its 0,4,2,2,6 for more cleanse on heal.

i usually see the guardians and warrior put back their boons in no time while i want to save my shatters to the right time thus make me think what more useful as a role
if i am just boon removal wouldnt it be more useful to go power shatter as hit and run?

messiah.1908:

fluxit.8247:

4/4/0/0/6 is still my favorite option. The boon removal is great against elis, warriors, guards, engis and thieves who use plasma. Works great with carrion gear and sword for the extra damage but i still prefer rabid. The extra toughness allows you to take a few hits/make a few mistakes.

i am also undecided between 4,4,0,0,6 with boon removal as group support or
x,4,2,x,6 – 2 point can go where you like
i tried few roles in team arena
home keeper – usually they send thief/mesmer/ranger to cap it and while i can sit on the point they cant so 4,4,0,06 wont help me much with boon removal (only regen is the boon you want to remove). so i used 0,4,4,0,6 . if they send 2 i will call for backup but i can hold for 10-30 sec b4 the point is uncontested (engi are hard counter to point holder)
if i am far capping (usually not alone and depend on the enemy split) 4,4,0,0,6 may be more helpful but if its 1v1 usually i prefer 0,4,4,0,6 or if massive codni pressure its 0,4,2,2,6 for more cleanse on heal.

i usually see the guardians and warrior put back their boons in no time while i want to save my shatters to the right time thus make me think what more useful as a role
if i am just boon removal wouldnt it be more useful to go power shatter as hit and run?

Boon removal is the superior option for power shatter. For condi it’s at the bottom of the list.

I know you want to help your team, but consider each build. Then consider what each best can do to both optimize itself, and be optimal in the roll it’s good at. A power shatter build can’t hold a point for any length of time, for example. However your condi shatter build can. So that’s a point of optimization to your roll. BI, CD, and MP are all superior options for condi shatter. 2 in Dom is also redundant (the cripple on clone death is great, but unnecessary) where’as DD offers more overall to both group support (weakness, vulnerability) and condi pressure (covering conditions).

Surely taking away all those warrior might stacks, stability protection, etc isnt bad for holding a point. And whats an eli without its boon. Or a turret engi for that matter. I understand what youre saying though, butvi dont think its on the bottom of the so called list. Your ability to strip boons, be it with power or condi shatter can be vital at the right moment. This is of course in a team fight

fluxit.8247:

Surely taking away all those warrior might stacks, stability protection, etc isnt bad for holding a point. And whats an eli without its boon. Or a turret engi for that matter. I understand what youre saying though, butvi dont think its on the bottom of the so called list. Your ability to strip boons, be it with power or condi shatter can be vital at the right moment. This is of course in a team fight

Even not in a team fight. An ele fully booned up is an unstoppable beast. With boon strip on shatter they just go out with a whimper. If you don’t take shattered concentration, you have essentially 0 access to boon strip, and that means you die against anything that stacks boons if they’re not bad.

Hi guys. Just throwing out this build to you.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf7KlkntMNOohbtRwNmTqGU/jnKZA/C-TJRAABAcSAYa/hofCAlVGAA

I left blank whatever traits/utility you may choose.
A neat 2k condi damage will frighten anyone (I had people whispering me my conditions were scary ). It could also be further improved by adding the corruption on kill sigil but I dislike it and prefered the bursting one.
It’s kind of an unconventional build since it uses scepter in both weapon sets and thus it requires you to spend a bit of time to adapt. Believe me.. it’s a killer of a build.

However, I agree with whoever is supporting the DD trait: having enemies killing your clones will dismantle any MtD unless you pick DD. Personally I prefer having crippling dissipations too and thus my favourite build so far is 2/4/2/0/6.

Saying that, I believe standard shatter is still superior and thus I don’t see myself using MtD on a regular basis.

Fay.2357:

fluxit.8247:

Surely taking away all those warrior might stacks, stability protection, etc isnt bad for holding a point. And whats an eli without its boon. Or a turret engi for that matter. I understand what youre saying though, butvi dont think its on the bottom of the so called list. Your ability to strip boons, be it with power or condi shatter can be vital at the right moment. This is of course in a team fight

Even not in a team fight. An ele fully booned up is an unstoppable beast. With boon strip on shatter they just go out with a whimper. If you don’t take shattered concentration, you have essentially 0 access to boon strip, and that means you die against anything that stacks boons if they’re not bad.

against ele mtd is so easy
usually they need to spam skills to heal themselves which proc confusion, they must move then proc torment doubled dmg. i dont care about their boons (regen yes) as condi ignore armor and i dont deal direct dmg.
the staff bunker ele can hold a point nice but will die eventually if no one will help him

and i agree more to the said above that shatter power with boon removal is very different style than mtd shatter (constant aoe condi pressure versus i combo hit and run)

trooper.2650:

Hi guys. Just throwing out this build to you.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArf7KlkntMNOohbtRwNmTqGU/jnKZA/C-TJRAABAcSAYa/hofCAlVGAA

I left blank whatever traits/utility you may choose.
A neat 2k condi damage will frighten anyone (I had people whispering me my conditions were scary ). It could also be further improved by adding the corruption on kill sigil but I dislike it and prefered the bursting one.
It’s kind of an unconventional build since it uses scepter in both weapon sets and thus it requires you to spend a bit of time to adapt. Believe me.. it’s a killer of a build.

However, I agree with whoever is supporting the DD trait: having enemies killing your clones will dismantle any MtD unless you pick DD. Personally I prefer having crippling dissipations too and thus my favourite build so far is 2/4/2/0/6.

Saying that, I believe standard shatter is still superior and thus I don’t see myself using MtD on a regular basis.

i like you idea with nice 2k condi dmg but i guess you using it as roamer role mainly
the staff is so nice aoe on a point with daze (can interupt aoe the stomp)
you got pistol which can stack nice 3-5 bleeding.
the main difference i think is you “like” more your illusion than me
i create/spam them and shatter. the pistol illsion can be important to shatter … but this is me
you miss #2 on staff which is life saver and illusion #3 can do nice 1.5k direct dmg also chaos shiled proc more conditions when you hit to cover your torment and confusion

but yes if you surprise someone or 1v1 you can take him fast
but i like more nighmare runes with the fear (interupt the initial burst) also having 15% condi duration (which helpful with confusion and bleed mainly)

messiah.1908:

against ele mtd is so easy
usually they need to spam skills to heal themselves which proc confusion, they must move then proc torment doubled dmg. i dont care about their boons (regen yes) as condi ignore armor and i dont deal direct dmg.
the staff bunker ele can hold a point nice but will die eventually if no one will help him

and i agree more to the said above that shatter power with boon removal is very different style than mtd shatter (constant aoe condi pressure versus i combo hit and run)

I agree with you messiah, but here’s my reasoning behind it. I run 4/4/0/0/6 because I find the extra condition duration is enough to give you an extra tick. With rabid gear and nightmare runes this can tick from the base damage of 677/s to 1000-2000 plus damage depending on a lot of variables (might, whether your target is moving or not, the number of stacks on the target, the gear you’re using).

The master domination trait gives you two real options to take. You can choose Cleansing Conflagration to remove 1 condition per torch skill use and reduce the cool down on torch skills or you can take Shattered Concentration. Both are viable.

Like you said, condition damage ignores toughness, and protection but think about this: you can either choose to fight a warrior with 12 stacks of might, fury, and stability…or you can choose to fight a warrior with no boons. Removing boons doesn’t increase your damage but at least it’ll reduce their’s. :P

messiah.1908:

Fay.2357:

fluxit.8247:

Surely taking away all those warrior might stacks, stability protection, etc isnt bad for holding a point. And whats an eli without its boon. Or a turret engi for that matter. I understand what youre saying though, butvi dont think its on the bottom of the so called list. Your ability to strip boons, be it with power or condi shatter can be vital at the right moment. This is of course in a team fight

Even not in a team fight. An ele fully booned up is an unstoppable beast. With boon strip on shatter they just go out with a whimper. If you don’t take shattered concentration, you have essentially 0 access to boon strip, and that means you die against anything that stacks boons if they’re not bad.

against ele mtd is so easy
usually they need to spam skills to heal themselves which proc confusion, they must move then proc torment doubled dmg. i dont care about their boons (regen yes) as condi ignore armor and i dont deal direct dmg.
the staff bunker ele can hold a point nice but will die eventually if no one will help him

and i agree more to the said above that shatter power with boon removal is very different style than mtd shatter (constant aoe condi pressure versus i combo hit and run)

The distinction is HUGE between power shatter and condi shatter.

fluxit.8247:

messiah.1908:

against ele mtd is so easy
usually they need to spam skills to heal themselves which proc confusion, they must move then proc torment doubled dmg. i dont care about their boons (regen yes) as condi ignore armor and i dont deal direct dmg.
the staff bunker ele can hold a point nice but will die eventually if no one will help him

and i agree more to the said above that shatter power with boon removal is very different style than mtd shatter (constant aoe condi pressure versus i combo hit and run)

I agree with you messiah, but here’s my reasoning behind it. I run 4/4/0/0/6 because I find the extra condition duration is enough to give you an extra tick. With rabid gear and nightmare runes this can tick from the base damage of 677/s to 1000-2000 plus damage depending on a lot of variables (might, whether your target is moving or not, the number of stacks on the target, the gear you’re using).

The master domination trait gives you two real options to take. You can choose Cleansing Conflagration to remove 1 condition per torch skill use and reduce the cool down on torch skills or you can take Shattered Concentration. Both are viable.

Like you said, condition damage ignores toughness, and protection but think about this: you can either choose to fight a warrior with 12 stacks of might, fury, and stability…or you can choose to fight a warrior with no boons. Removing boons doesn’t increase your damage but at least it’ll reduce their’s. :P

maybe its me or my playstyle but i noticed that if i clear warrior/guardian boons they start to play more defensively. thus less movement and less skills uses.
i want them to burst me so i can proc torment and confusion i want them to run after me for the double dmg from torment.
i agree that 15% condi duration from nightmare+20% for trait is nice in pvp arena which add around 2 seconds tick for torment and confusion
the torch cleanse is not useable with the condi shatter as you use you torch offensively and not defensively (i want confusion and blind and bruning on the enemey and not saving it for the condi cleanse)

this is why i love the last update as it opens up 4 builds for us to use all around mtd (while power shatter basically has 1 build)
now i have to w8 and see if the community will ambress it and say in tpvp we see it as valuable. so far i use in in tpvp in great success (80% of the time with random players i win and i am lead the score)

@fluxit:
Do keep in mind that full-second-durations are only relevant in 1v1 situations where you are the only person applying this condition, and even then only on the first application.

The server does not reinitialize the tick-timer with each application, only when starting the stack. That is to say, any later application with a duration like say, 6,5 seconds will have 6 ticks and 50% of the time 7 ticks.

wow the more i played it the more its powerful and rewarding
i manage (belive me i dont know how) to contest in 1v2 the far which became 1v3 and point for 2 min against med guard, ranger and lockdown mesmer when i saw the 4 coming i run the hell away
but the play style is so aggressive that i make them easy to target me as i move dodge all the time
i know i am not bunker but more and more 1v2 become more natural (not necessarily to kill them and not all scenarios ) rather give my team the time to take 2 points easily

“A similar condi option I saw the other day was a 0/0/2/6/6, with Restorative Illu, and Maim. The mes used Sc/T and Staff with a Settlers Amulet of all things. At first it didn’t seem like much for damage besides Malicious Sorcery, just trying to survive and remove condis. But when he landed shatter combos and covered the torment with random burning, chill, poison… I watched warriors and eles just melt. This build is clearly timing based since any mass cleanse or dodges set you back and the settlers should probably be switched out, but its an example of something fresh for mesmers.”
I first saw these on dueling servers and they are spreading slowly and settlers actually seems to work for them. They are tanky as heck and no-one can out cleanse the spam atleast, though it is easy to out cleanse or escape shatter torment if you are good enough and have a cleanse/ lots of evades..

I’m happy you’re finding it to be such a rewarding build to play, Messiah. When I’m not focused in long-winded fights, my team tends to easily win the battle more often than not.

I made my own torment build for fun and it’s been working really well! It doesn’t have the instant burst double ranged does, but it can take quite a few hits while keeping good pressure with torment and confusion.

I noticed after I started bringing torment builds into dueling rooms, more people are starting to test out torment builds. xD

Yesterday, I was in a tPvP match and I was defending Home point[Stealth let it be decapped, but I could kill quickly if they focused too much on fighting on point] and I killed one guy, left with 20% health or so, and another guy came in and I killed him to. Not a 2v1, but 2 1v1’s back-to-back. Sadly, I don’t remember the details of this particular fight[though I remember the awesome feeling of winning], but I remember a thief asking for my build and at one point two thieves cooperating to double-burst me because neither could burst me quick enough for me to not counter alone. Simply put, Maim Mesmers are fantastic, even compared to Power Shatter. They don’t burst quickly, but they kill with a certain methodicalness which seems almost torturous if visualized.

On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.

Dondagora.9645:

On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.

I’d be interested in seeing this build actually posted, although I have my reservations on whether I’d like it for my playstyle. A shatter build without DE probably wouldn’t be my cup o’ tea.

Dhampyr.2104:

Dondagora.9645:

On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.

I’d be interested in seeing this build actually posted, although I have my reservations on whether I’d like it for my playstyle. A shatter build without DE probably wouldn’t be my cup o’ tea.

Maybe. I’d guess the build relies more on stealth than clones for survivability. It might not even be a straight-up shatter build since it seems to be more slow-paced, surviving while your condi slowly gnaws at the opponent. Probably a whole different play style.

Dondagora.9645:

Dhampyr.2104:

Dondagora.9645:

On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.

I’d be interested in seeing this build actually posted, although I have my reservations on whether I’d like it for my playstyle. A shatter build without DE probably wouldn’t be my cup o’ tea.

Maybe. I’d guess the build relies more on stealth than clones for survivability. It might not even be a straight-up shatter build since it seems to be more slow-paced, surviving while your condi slowly gnaws at the opponent. Probably a whole different play style.

I honestly can’t see it working even remotely well at all. Maim builds already have enough difficulty maintaining good damage even with DE. You have to be continuously aggressive; maintaining constant pressure through nonstop shatters and attacks. Without that constant pressure people can easily cleanse off the torment and negate almost all of your damage. Without DE you simply can’t apply that pressure, so this build would be pretty much worthless.

Fay.2357:

Dondagora.9645:

Dhampyr.2104:

Dondagora.9645:

On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.

I’d be interested in seeing this build actually posted, although I have my reservations on whether I’d like it for my playstyle. A shatter build without DE probably wouldn’t be my cup o’ tea.

Maybe. I’d guess the build relies more on stealth than clones for survivability. It might not even be a straight-up shatter build since it seems to be more slow-paced, surviving while your condi slowly gnaws at the opponent. Probably a whole different play style.

I honestly can’t see it working even remotely well at all. Maim builds already have enough difficulty maintaining good damage even with DE. You have to be continuously aggressive; maintaining constant pressure through nonstop shatters and attacks. Without that constant pressure people can easily cleanse off the torment and negate almost all of your damage. Without DE you simply can’t apply that pressure, so this build would be pretty much worthless.

It might “work”. I agree with your pessimism in that it won’t be what I might call “meta”-level[Power-Shatter] or even “sub-meta”-level[Lockdown], but it might be workable, just not viable in most sPvP. But, still, might as well try it for fun, be happily surprised if it works, and understanding if it doesn’t.

Also, I’m not accusing you of being wrong, I agree with your conclusion. Just prefer a more optimistic way of seeing new things, even if they won’t give the best possible results. For all we know, RI-Maim Mesmer could be a new sub-meta way over the horizon, if they ever fix the DE barrier holding us back.

Dondagora.9645:

Fay.2357:

Dondagora.9645:

Dhampyr.2104:

Dondagora.9645:

On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.

I’d be interested in seeing this build actually posted, although I have my reservations on whether I’d like it for my playstyle. A shatter build without DE probably wouldn’t be my cup o’ tea.

Maybe. I’d guess the build relies more on stealth than clones for survivability. It might not even be a straight-up shatter build since it seems to be more slow-paced, surviving while your condi slowly gnaws at the opponent. Probably a whole different play style.

I honestly can’t see it working even remotely well at all. Maim builds already have enough difficulty maintaining good damage even with DE. You have to be continuously aggressive; maintaining constant pressure through nonstop shatters and attacks. Without that constant pressure people can easily cleanse off the torment and negate almost all of your damage. Without DE you simply can’t apply that pressure, so this build would be pretty much worthless.

It might “work”. I agree with your pessimism in that it won’t be what I might call “meta”-level[Power-Shatter] or even “sub-meta”-level[Lockdown], but it might be workable, just not viable in most sPvP. But, still, might as well try it for fun, be happily surprised if it works, and understanding if it doesn’t.

Also, I’m not accusing you of being wrong, I agree with your conclusion. Just prefer a more optimistic way of seeing new things, even if they won’t give the best possible results. For all we know, RI-Maim Mesmer could be a new sub-meta way over the horizon, if they ever fix the DE barrier holding us back.

“For what purpose?” is the question that comes to mind.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Dondagora.9645:

Fay.2357:

Dondagora.9645:

Dhampyr.2104:

Dondagora.9645:

On that same note, I’ve never heard of a Maim 0/0/2/6/6, but I can imagine it. Very interesting idea, might try it out.

I’d be interested in seeing this build actually posted, although I have my reservations on whether I’d like it for my playstyle. A shatter build without DE probably wouldn’t be my cup o’ tea.

Maybe. I’d guess the build relies more on stealth than clones for survivability. It might not even be a straight-up shatter build since it seems to be more slow-paced, surviving while your condi slowly gnaws at the opponent. Probably a whole different play style.

I honestly can’t see it working even remotely well at all. Maim builds already have enough difficulty maintaining good damage even with DE. You have to be continuously aggressive; maintaining constant pressure through nonstop shatters and attacks. Without that constant pressure people can easily cleanse off the torment and negate almost all of your damage. Without DE you simply can’t apply that pressure, so this build would be pretty much worthless.

It might “work”. I agree with your pessimism in that it won’t be what I might call “meta”-level[Power-Shatter] or even “sub-meta”-level[Lockdown], but it might be workable, just not viable in most sPvP. But, still, might as well try it for fun, be happily surprised if it works, and understanding if it doesn’t.

Also, I’m not accusing you of being wrong, I agree with your conclusion. Just prefer a more optimistic way of seeing new things, even if they won’t give the best possible results. For all we know, RI-Maim Mesmer could be a new sub-meta way over the horizon, if they ever fix the DE barrier holding us back.

“For what purpose?” is the question that comes to mind.

Something more tanky and more condi-heavy. Currently condi-shatter with 4/4/0/0/6 is mixed with power for damage. In a pure condi set-up, the mesmer would get more survivability and offensive pressure with more of the damage and healing they’ll be getting from each shatter. No idea whether it’ll be good or how good, but it could become “viable” with a new clone-generation trait.

And I can’t speak for the build itself, but at least we’ll be able to find out if we can get those clone traits we so dearly need for diversity.

i did few test in tpvp arena with both power shatter and condi shatter as both got different play style
with my p shatter its hit and run. even in group style and not 1v1 you hit and stealth away looking for higher ground to hit from with some AA and illusion. looking for the 50% hp opportunity to shatter fast and leave. so the average dmg the whole time is bit low but the success in downing eney is higher

with condi shatter i play aggersively on the point all the time to spread the condi all over and pressure the enemies to cleanse early. i dont look for 1v1 even if i can do it as the dps is lower then the power shatter. so with the group the condi pressure is higher thus the average dps is higher the the power shatter. (sure if the enemy got ele and guard bunker i need to lure them to cleanse early thus my dps get lower)

1v1 power shatter is better but need the play flawless as the condi shatter give you bit more space for errors. also condi shatter may do 1v2 until help comes as the power shatter will have to run away as its too risky

also power shatter cant contest well as condi shatter as he cant play on the point

condi shatter can put fast massive pressure on a point while other condi classes cant (necro can do some 6 bleed aoe and 3 torement poison aoe while mesmer can do 6-9 torment and confusion with burning poison and other cover conditions)

condi shatter can shut down players as confusion prevent skills use and torment movement

so does it work in tpvp – yes
does it work in higher tpvp – dont know yet but guess so if group taking condi engi or necro they can take condi mesmer
does it work in 1v1 – yes (s/d hard counter and power shatter)
can it contest point and save them – yes
does it work in group fight – hell ye . while not noticed as boons will early fly away in the fight your team will have better chance to get the down early. 2-3 enemy player ignoring 5-6 torment stack and confusion will get 50% hp fast

Ross Biddle.2367:

I can cream most opponents with it, or keep them on their toes. Only had trouble with one bunker ranger (of all things). I run a 0, 4, 4, 0, 6 build, scepter/pistol + staff, running condi cleanse mantra, blink, and MoD.

• In almost all 1v1’s it’ll lead to a win.
• I don’t suffer thieves the way I would with a power shatter build.
• I can take on multiple opponents with it leading to downs.
• It’s most strongest in a group fight where, while the enemy is tied up with so much going on, landing an AoE condi shatter will catch them out and down them en’mass.

It’s strong. It has it’s weak moments vs select encounters, but I can’t deny it’s strength so much of the time.

(I even got PM’s asking me after the build).

My build is a bit different, but same thing. I was dueling an ele with so much regen it was horrifying how fast I watched his health rebuild after taking damage.

But he was horrified at how hard he had keeping his regen going, as I had a condi shatter using, among other things, maimed the disillusioned, and he couldnt keep the regen boon up with shattered concentration + arcane thievery.

He pmed me after and asked for the build. He spectated me during the next match and loved it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraRlknpRtlpxBNcrNCuBZqJg6l0kTW6A8rBA-TJRHwACOBAAeAAh2fwZZAA

This is what im running now and it seems strong in most fights. High bleeds from phantasms/clones and you can shatter burst when needed. Lots of lockdown from the weapon lockout… chaining pistol stun/signet/ gs knockback/ daze shatter= like 10 seconds lockdown.

I dont see it out performing shatter in tpvp just because anything without travelers/portal is just stupid slow.. but thats the life of mesmer.

I tried Maim without DE, and it was NOT effective in the least bit. It’s an interesting concept, but I don’t think you would be able to have the pressure needed for a condi shatter.

The spec i listed above is almost exactly like a phantasm condi spec but it has a little more punishing dazes.. So without MTD it will still kill people and with DE it still kills people. I just traded bountiful interuption for MTD. At this point after playing it for 2 nights im still not sure what trait comes out on top since it is usually a damage loss to shatter iduelests.

The main issue with peoples specs is that they think shattering is where their killing damage should come from. You arent killing anything spawing 3 staff clones and shattering them on a guy.. but you can kill by putting 20 stacks of bleed then putting some torment on top.

The fact that people still think staff is a good condi weapon may be the other problem.

Staff condi works the same way PU does.. It is more of an idiot test then it is a effective weapon. If your enemy gets burned down by standing in staff clone auto attack long enough.. they may deserve to die.

zaxon.6819:

.

The main issue with peoples specs is that they think shattering is where their killing damage should come from. You arent killing anything spawing 3 staff clones and shattering them on a guy.. but you can kill by putting 20 stacks of bleed then putting some torment on top.

The fact that people still think staff is a good condi weapon may be the other problem.

Staff condi works the same way PU does.. It is more of an idiot test then it is a effective weapon. If your enemy gets burned down by standing in staff clone auto attack long enough.. they may deserve to die.

if someone took 20 bleed stack he deserve to die
the shattering is the main source of dmg and pressure and all other conditions are just to cover the torment and confusion
the staff is for aoe on a point and daze and moanily to create illusion and chaos storm/armor which proc more conditions

the mtd as i see it should work aggressively when you see an opportunity to burst your shatter (after 2 dodge/ cleanse/ heal skill use etc)

if you play is slowly its like a PU concept and wont get fast kill or any pressure (maybe 1v1 but not in group fight – tpvp point of view)

Lots of people deserve to die.

zaxon.6819:

Lots of people deserve to die.

Perhaps, but you shouldn’t base the effectiveness of a build off of horridly unskilled players, as they don’t really matter. Always judge a build based on how it performs against good players using good builds, as that situation is the only one where a build can distinguish itself.

You can overstate how unskilled my enemy is to try and drive your point home. Or you can realize that you do not know how skilled my enemy is and not make statements with very little info to keep them accurate.

zaxon.6819:

You can overstate how unskilled my enemy is to try and drive your point home. Or you can realize that you do not know how skilled my enemy is and not make statements with very little info to keep them accurate.

You provided us with all the info necessary. No good player will get 20 stacks of bleed on them, that’s just how it goes. That necessarily leaves the other option: an unskilled player. The only way to get 20 bleeds would be something silly like stacking 2-3 iduelists on someone. If they didn’t notice that and take steps to counteract it, they’re awful.

Sorry guys I’ve been on a little bit of a hiatus. Holiday times get busy. When things get back to normal, I’ll be able to better procrastinate and play guild wars 2.

MAIM THE META!

I would like to point out that I used MTD with a power based build gs-s/f with DE and dmg on inturpt and while the condis do almost nothing,it still puts everyone on constant pressure which is very good.It makes my job of dpsing very easy.

Sandrox.9524:

I would like to point out that I used MTD with a power based build gs-s/f with DE and dmg on inturpt and while the condis do almost nothing,it still puts everyone on constant pressure which is very good.It makes my job of dpsing very easy.

i try the 4,4,0,0,6 build mtd with carrion and tried several runes and its nice pressure but still the power build puts better burst pressure also its different play style than the full condi with rabid gear

I really don’t want this to become a meta of any sorts. As soon as it does, it will get nerfed to oblivion.

msalakka.4653:

I really don’t want this to become a meta of any sorts. As soon as it does, it will get nerfed to oblivion.

dont worry

a build to be a meta one take around 6-12 months

so far only me use it in tpvp (lol)

I also like 4/4/0/0/6. However, I think 0/4/4/0/6 is even stronger. With bountiful interruption, might on swap, shatter etc, it’s easy to get 25 stacks up fast. The weakness on chaotic dissipation is quite handy as well.

-Sizzap

kodesh.2851:

I also like 4/4/0/0/6. However, I think 0/4/4/0/6 is even stronger. With bountiful interruption, might on swap, shatter etc, it’s easy to get 25 stacks up fast. The weakness on chaotic dissipation is quite handy as well.

-Sizzap

In terms of damage, I always wondered whether the loss of the dom tree can be made up by BI. You loose vulnerability from minor traits (however mitigated by debilitating dissipation), 200power (easily replaced by 5-6 stacks of might), and two very nice traits like halting strike/mental troment and shattering concentrations above all.

In return you get a lot of might and a random boon IF you interrupt. Interrupting is not granted, though. Only might from shattering is. Runes can help in stacking might ofc. So, it’s a sort of ramp up dps increase.

All in all I think you still end up being more aggressive by going domination. By chosing Chaos is more of a “secure” play style although 200 armor and some defensive boons won’t save you from those glass builds out there.

for me both 4,4,0,0,6 and 0,4,4,0,6 is the same output dmg give or take. dom line is for boon reaping if i see 1-2 guards/ele and my job is to go mid mainly
if the team need me to go home or far i will go more 0,4,4,0,6 build with nightmare runes and MOA for more fear output to control the cap if needed.
the BI is nice but hardly i time my interruptions around it with staff or F3. maybe if i had pistol or focus but torch is much needed

trooper.2650:

In terms of damage, I always wondered whether the loss of the dom tree can be made up by BI. You loose vulnerability from minor traits (however mitigated by debilitating dissipation), 200power (easily replaced by 5-6 stacks of might), and two very nice traits like halting strike/mental troment and shattering concentrations above all.

In return you get a lot of might and a random boon IF you interrupt. Interrupting is not granted, though. Only might from shattering is. Runes can help in stacking might ofc. So, it’s a sort of ramp up dps increase.

All in all I think you still end up being more aggressive by going domination. By chosing Chaos is more of a “secure” play style although 200 armor and some defensive boons won’t save you from those glass builds out there.

I’ve spent a number of hours on both with the exact same setup aside from those 4 pts (cele ammy, strength runes, battle sigils), and the 4/4/0/0/6 version predictably does a bit more damage.

I’m not a big fan of torch or scepter, so for me it’s Staff/GS or Staff/Sword/pistol. You go into any fight with ~3 interrupts which is usually plenty to secure your might stacks from BI. It’s VERY easy to get and maintain 25 stacks with the 0/4/4/0/6 build so in longer fights it seems to win out.

Both are very solid, depends more if you prefer the boon strip to the aoe weakness than whether or not you like bountiful interruption or which does more damage imo.

Speaking not as a mesmer but as a ranger/necro that likes to research and fight other classes this trait gets mixed results on me. I usualy rum a cleric bm ranger (62006) and a DS/MM cavalier necro (20606)

My necro doesn’t fear much form this trait. Either transfering it or letting ds soak it takes away most of the sting.

My ranger while it doesn’t fear it it definetly makes me wake up more than most of my opponents. Id say im in the upper level of rangers (Not the best but FAR from the worst) Most opponents I have a very well learned pattern of fighting. This trait however throws me off quite regularly. I usually alternate heavily between melee and ranged in order to keep the enemy moving. However this trait instead keeps ME moving once I know its there. It can be really disruptive to get hit by it when im fighting something I HAVE to kite (hambow warrior. Lich necro. condi warriors. D/D Ellies.) Id say its a pretty amazing +1 trait.

When you see someone else is fighting someone and you just want to kitten that 1v1 over as hard as you can this is a good way to do it. Atleast that is how it feels on the receiving. As I said. Im not a mesmer. But atleast I know what its like to get wacked by it at the worst possible moment.

Shadelang.3012:

When you see someone else is fighting someone and you just want to kitten that 1v1 over as hard as you can this is a good way to do it. Atleast that is how it feels on the receiving. As I said. Im not a mesmer. But atleast I know what its like to get wacked by it at the worst possible moment.

Problem with that though is that the traditional power shatter Mesmer will out-perform MTD easily. If a power shatter Mesmer manages to sneak up and burst someone already engaged in a fight, 80% of the time it’ll result in a kill.

Sneaking up on someone with MTD may stack a lot of conditions on them, but the way conditions work, they have a chance to cleanse it, and negate all of your damage.

TL; DR: Sneaking up on someone engaged in a fight goes hand in hand with burst. Conditions, by nature are not as effective as power spikes as a form of burst. “Omgwtfbbq I’m dead” is what you’re looking for.

DeathReign.7821:

Shadelang.3012:

When you see someone else is fighting someone and you just want to kitten that 1v1 over as hard as you can this is a good way to do it. Atleast that is how it feels on the receiving. As I said. Im not a mesmer. But atleast I know what its like to get wacked by it at the worst possible moment.

Problem with that though is that the traditional power shatter Mesmer will out-perform MTD easily. If a power shatter Mesmer manages to sneak up and burst someone already engaged in a fight, 80% of the time it’ll result in a kill.

Sneaking up on someone with MTD may stack a lot of conditions on them, but the way conditions work, they have a chance to cleanse it, and negate all of your damage.

TL; DR: Sneaking up on someone engaged in a fight goes hand in hand with burst. Conditions, by nature are not as effective as power spikes as a form of burst. “Omgwtfbbq I’m dead” is what you’re looking for.

why ppl still playing the mtd shatter like power shatter. if so play power shatter which is by far more appropriate.
condi shatter as i see it should hold point far or home as he can handle 1v1 nicely better than power shatter without having to run away from the cap.
also in 1v2 he can handle few seconds until thief or power shatter mesmer come to help him
also he is better in group situation while bursting on the cap point with boon stripping and condi aoe bursting which end in 2 ways:
1. the enemy group used all its condi cleanse and boons too early giving your team the upper hand
2. if the enemy group wouldn’t have died they moved away from the cap point as they cant handle the condi aoe pressure

while power shatter will just burst from range and target periphery enemy to burst as he cant handle the cap middle aoe pressure

so 2 different play style and role

mtd shatter build should be compare to other condi spec like ranger, necro and engi
necro is not so much preform in the high pvp arena while engi bit more and some ranger condi build lately have been seen in the high pvp arena

now which is better ?
engi with his kd mostly and hp regen is better point holder but his condi pressure is bit less the the mtd in group fight
ranger – good in 1v1 but cant perform like the mtd in 1v2 or point holder or group fight
necro – great cc with fear so 1v1 might be better but in group support the mtd perform better (or should at least)
mtd is good counter to guardian and ele with his boon stripping and harassing

messiah.1908:

DeathReign.7821:

Shadelang.3012:

When you see someone else is fighting someone and you just want to kitten that 1v1 over as hard as you can this is a good way to do it. Atleast that is how it feels on the receiving. As I said. Im not a mesmer. But atleast I know what its like to get wacked by it at the worst possible moment.

Problem with that though is that the traditional power shatter Mesmer will out-perform MTD easily. If a power shatter Mesmer manages to sneak up and burst someone already engaged in a fight, 80% of the time it’ll result in a kill.

Sneaking up on someone with MTD may stack a lot of conditions on them, but the way conditions work, they have a chance to cleanse it, and negate all of your damage.

TL; DR: Sneaking up on someone engaged in a fight goes hand in hand with burst. Conditions, by nature are not as effective as power spikes as a form of burst. “Omgwtfbbq I’m dead” is what you’re looking for.

why ppl still playing the mtd shatter like power shatter. if so play power shatter which is by far more appropriate.
condi shatter as i see it should hold point far or home as he can handle 1v1 nicely better than power shatter without having to run away from the cap.
also in 1v2 he can handle few seconds until thief or power shatter mesmer come to help him
also he is better in group situation while bursting on the cap point with boon stripping and condi aoe bursting which end in 2 ways:
1. the enemy group used all its condi cleanse and boons too early giving your team the upper hand
2. if the enemy group wouldn’t have died they moved away from the cap point as they cant handle the condi aoe pressure

while power shatter will just burst from range and target periphery enemy to burst as he cant handle the cap middle aoe pressure

so 2 different play style and role

mtd shatter build should be compare to other condi spec like ranger, necro and engi
necro is not so much preform in the high pvp arena while engi bit more and some ranger condi build lately have been seen in the high pvp arena

now which is better ?
engi with his kd mostly and hp regen is better point holder but his condi pressure is bit less the the mtd in group fight
ranger – good in 1v1 but cant perform like the mtd in 1v2 or point holder or group fight
necro – great cc with fear so 1v1 might be better but in group support the mtd perform better (or should at least)
mtd is good counter to guardian and ele with his boon stripping and harassing

I’m inclined to agree with you – my point was referring to the whole “if you catch me in a pinch” point that was brought up.

The only thing the two have in common is the fact that you shatter your clones as your primary means of delivering damage, but other then that it’s a completely different way to play. Similarities are there, sure, but your tactics overall are quite different. You’re likely shattering a lot more then a Power Shatter Mesmer, but in turn you can also opt not to shatter and use your clones for sustained pressure and then shatter to stack MtD on top of the fire/bleeds/torment from the clones. Naturally, you can also stay in the thick of things much longer, so it’s really quite a different way to play even if the underlying base mechanic is the same.