Guild Wars 2

So in preparation for the patch coming up in a few days, I have been theory-crafting a build revolving around the new trait “Maim the Disillusioned.”

The focus of this build is applying as much torment as possible, while also focusing on Confusion to down your foe. With the combination of Scepter/Torch and Staff, I have been attempting to make a build that is plausible.

The problem is this, I am having a hard time justifying a shatter-heavy build without running Deceptive Evasion. It seems like I’d be handicapping myself if I did not take this trait. The build is below for you guys to review. (The trait I left open in the Illusions line is where Maim the Disillusioned would go). The Torment comes from the runes, and the Scepter block skill, which I have plenty of practice with, so timing isn’t an issue. It is supplemented by Malicious Sorcery (is this as good as it looks?).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgQQNArfWlknpRtlpxQNcrNicSB0JdoecdgHAUShtdhA-zECBoOCi0CgUHBKTqIas11FRjV3ATxiIq2joIa1kCAi1AA-w

Dire armor seemed the way to go. I had a few thoughts on this, and I wanted to see what you guys thought…

1) Would the autoattack from the Scepter make up for the lack of DE?

2) I’m short condition removal save for Mender’s Purity. I normally run the trait the uses the Torch to cleanse condis + the occasional condi-cleanse mantra, but is Mender’s Purity strong enough to handle the job? I have never used it before, so I don’t know much about it.

3) This build is devoid of PU, while I like that on principle, does this even seem practical?

Sound off and let me know, I know the patch isn’t here yet, but I always like to be prepared! Thanks for reading!

Take out all its from domination. vuln on daze is terrible for condi builds as vuln only affects direct dmg. Dissapting clones only wrks if they are killed by an enemy and since this is a shatter build ur clones will not be up for long. same with debilitating dissipation. if anything maybe spec 30 to inspiration and get condi removal or heal on shatter? both will suffice but those “on kill” do not work wen shattered. either make it 0/0/20/20/30 or 0/5/5/30/30. 5/5 because vigor will help out a lot and honestly theres not to many minors that can help this build so regen is meh. or maybe get 10 dueling and get retalotory shield?

also if you want a pu build with this its not ideal seeing how you are locked in to 0/0/30/0/30. if you did id put 10 in dueling and get retalitory shield because with retaliation it hits back obvi and u have confusion which hits back too and then you ahve torment which is movenment based so yea…

You’re not going to want on-death traits when you’re planning to shatter to apply your damage (torment in this case). I would honestly go something like 0/20/0/20/30 using DE and see if it works. Going 20 into dueling is going to net you a decent amount more damage output since you also get sharper images for your staff/scepter clones in between shatters.

Honestly you dont need DE. if you are spamming shatters your doing it wrong. yes you cn spam 1/2 shatter but the other two should be saved for special moments plus you need to watch the condi remove. if you stack burst to uch they will jst hit one cleanse and bye bye. but if you time out your shattesr correctly you should do fine with jst staff/ scep jst keep the autos up with scep

Ok, so after looking over the input, this is what the build morphed into:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vgQQNArfWlknpRtlpxTNcrNSYqwwP9A6Sf6oecdwDAA-zECBoOCi0CgUHBKTqIas11FRjV3ATxiIq2joIa1kCAi1AA-w

What you had to say made sense, Mystogan, and I adjusted accordingly. Will be editing original post with this build!

wait wait one more thing. utilities. decoy good. tele good. mirror bad. 36 cd for what? two clones= 5 1/2 sec of confusion on shatter or 10 with cry. so its 33% uptime if u use cry and thats rounding up. your basically using up a utility spot with 36 sec cd just for 1 shatter and nothing else.

a few choices… could go any way:

Idisenchanter: good condi remove with 16 sec cd? plus grants regen because of insipration trait 15 compare this to mirror image (idisenchanter-miriror image)
cd:16-36
illusions 1-2
condi remove1-0
regen: 1-0
dmg:156-0
team condi remove:1-0
The team play utility along with jst condi removal IMO is way better then using mirrior image kittenter bait.

option 2:
Sig of domination: passive adds condi dmg and active is a 3 sec stun.

Being a fellow condi mesmer ik how annoying it is to almost kill someone to have them heal up. if you know how to look for skill ques you can interupt their heals or other important moves and it puts it on a 4 sec cd. the down side? 45 sec cd. its one step up from mirror image but not better then idisenchanter.

option 3:
arcane thievery: steal 3 boons transfer 3 condis
this skill is fun and amazing at the same time lol

Stability is a boon…. steal dat.. but this gives more survivability and more damage two fold because you send condis over then get boons, if that boon happens to be might then you jst threw more condis while gaining might. if its a might warrior.. then congratulations you just earned 20+ stacks of might. down side is the cd+ it has a 1/2 sec channel time which means it can be interupted but it will rarely happen.

Once you play more you realize that mirror image is not very useful and its jst fodder for shatters with no utility otherwise. only utility is throwing it up to get distortion.

if you have a staff you are basically set on clones. i also use staff and DE and it is way to much. i am constantly exploding clones jst because i cant do anything with them.

Other then that the build is great!

Mystogan.4157:

Honestly you dont need DE. if you are spamming shatters your doing it wrong. yes you cn spam 1/2 shatter but the other two should be saved for special moments plus you need to watch the condi remove. if you stack burst to uch they will jst hit one cleanse and bye bye. but if you time out your shattesr correctly you should do fine with jst staff/ scep jst keep the autos up with scep

I mean, you say this, but I’ve yet to see any mesmer competently use a shatter build without taking DE. Yes, I know it can be done, but it can’t be done well, particularly in this build where you won’t even have leap/swap to ensure that your shatters actually hit, having as much clone generation as possible is absolutely essential.

Now, for other critiques. Taking a fall damage trait as something that you run with is nothing but foolish. If that’s truly what you think is your best choice in chaos, then you’d best put those points elsewhere.

Another problem with this build is you have literally 0 access to vigor or any other endurance regeneration. You will be dodge rolling once every 5 seconds at an absolute maximum, and that’s it. You could potentially fix this by taking vigorous revelation.

A note, though not exactly a criticism, is that despite this being a shatter build, you’ll still face the same problems that PU condition builds do, in that if someone doesn’t want to fight you, they can simply walk away and there’s absolutely nothing you can do to stop it. You’re also going to have to be incredibly careful with your shatters in this build. Without DE, shattering is a monumental expenditure of resources. If you shatter offensively and you need clones for defense or a boosted ether feast a few seconds later, you’re out of luck. Additionally, remember that shatters can be blocked, dodged, and evaded…unlike dissipation traits. Lastly, since you don’t have mainhand sword for leap/swap, you’ll need to be extremely on-point with watching your enemy’s dodging. If you shatter without being right on top of them, you’ll run the risk of having your shatter easily avoided.

Whew, so much new info to take in! I think I’ve been using the fall damage trait as kind of a crutch. It’s something I’ve just come to know in my current build, but I agree with you that the points I put in there for that may just be wasted. So I’m retooling the build a bit, adding in DE (in my opening post, I voiced this as a concern, especially since I wasn;t sure if scepter would be enough.), and dropping the extra 10 points in Inspiration and funneling it all into getting DE. As well as adding iDisenchanter. I may swap this out with Arcane Thievery (I also currently run this, and have come to love it), but I feel the Regen proc on IDisenchanter and the boon/condi strip may have some merit!

Also Retalitory Shield seems pretty good. Especially since one of the key skills on my scepter works off of this.

Thanks for the suggestions guys! Updating original post yet again with this:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vgQQNArfWlknpRtlpxQNcrNicSB0JdoecdgHAUShudhA-zECBoOCi0CgUHBKTqIas11FRjV3ATxiIq2joIa1kCAi1AA-w

Nabarue.3290:

Whew, so much new info to take in! I think I’ve been using the fall damage trait as kind of a crutch. It’s something I’ve just come to know in my current build, but I agree with you that the points I put in there for that may just be wasted. So I’m retooling the build a bit, adding in DE (in my opening post, I voiced this as a concern, especially since I wasn;t sure if scepter would be enough.), and dropping the extra 10 points in Inspiration and funneling it all into getting DE. As well as adding iDisenchanter. I may swap this out with Arcane Thievery (I also currently run this, and have come to love it), but I feel the Regen proc on IDisenchanter and the boon/condi strip may have some merit!

Also Retalitory Shield seems pretty good. Especially since one of the key skills on my scepter works off of this.

Thanks for the suggestions guys! Updating original post yet again with this:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vgQQNArfWlknpRtlpxQNcrNicSB0JdoecdgHAUShudhA-zECBoOCi0CgUHBKTqIas11FRjV3ATxiIq2joIa1kCAi1AA-w

Retaliation scales off of power, so it’ll do next to no damage in this build. You’d get far more mileage from 1200 range blink.

Updated, TY! I appreciate all the help, can’t wait to give this build a go.

Here’s my input, for what it’s worth:

Rabid gear + Sigil of Torment + Sharper Images/Phantasmal Fury (trait) would give you a lot more condition application. You’ll have 20k health and 32% crit chance, coupled with the traits & sigil you’ll have decent application of bleed as well as torment procs. And the sigil should improve after 4/15. Trade Mirror Images for Phantasmal Disenchanter and you’ve got more regen and condition removal to make up for losing Shattered Conditions.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgQQNArfWlknpRtlpxQNcrNicSB0JdoecdgHAUSBudhA-zkCBoOCi0Cgk3AUHQ5QDjNTKR11FRjVzATliIq2joIa1kCAi1AA-w

Pyroathiest.4168:

A note, though not exactly a criticism, is that despite this being a shatter build, you’ll still face the same problems that PU condition builds do, in that if someone doesn’t want to fight you, they can simply walk away and there’s absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.

This is why I plan on switching to a torment build for ONLY sPvP, where the objective is to cap points and unload some serious pain for those who are near you.

As a WvW roamer I rely soooooooo heavily on having traveler’s runes and the two traits that reduce cooldowns and increase range on manipulation skills in order to either escape or keep up with my enemies. I wouldn’t give that up for a shatter condi build.

edit: I know a noob question…but does debilitating dissipation work on shatters or only when a clone is killed or replaced?

Mystogan.4157:

Take out all its from domination. vuln on daze is terrible for condi builds as vuln only affects direct dmg.

Got to disagree on this one. Vulnerability on Daze won’t be that important. But Rending Shatters will be the best trait to cover your Confusion and Torment. So people probably end up with 10/20/0/0/30. The last 10 could be spend on either Shattered Concentration or Vigorous Relevation.

Pyroathiest.4168:

I mean, you say this, but I’ve yet to see any mesmer competently use a shatter build without taking DE. Yes, I know it can be done, but it can’t be done well, particularly in this build where you won’t even have leap/swap to ensure that your shatters actually hit, having as much clone generation as possible is absolutely essential.

I got to agree with Pyro. While you don’t need DE to play a shatter build, running without DE makes it impossible to be efficient. Efficient meaning, you can in no way reach the maximum potential. With 30 Illusions you need about 32 Illusions per minute when constantly using your shatters. There literally is no (untraited) weapon set which generates so many Illusions even when including IC.

Even if you say ‘I won’t use F1(F2) as condi (power) shatter Mesmer so I need less Illusions.’ you still have to consider that Illusions often die before being shattered. Also, not only the pure number of Illusions per minute matters. For setting up a burst you need to create them quickly which is almost impossible without DE.

Mek.2947:

edit: I know a noob question…but does debilitating dissipation work on shatters or only when a clone is killed or replaced?

Only the latter. Not on shatters.

skcamow.3527:

You’re not going to want on-death traits when you’re planning to shatter to apply your damage (torment in this case). I would honestly go something like 0/20/0/20/30 using DE and see if it works. Going 20 into dueling is going to net you a decent amount more damage output since you also get sharper images for your staff/scepter clones in between shatters.

Now that you’ve wisely chosen to take DE in the build –

Just a reminder you’ll do best to gear with rabid versus dire so you can get something out of sharper images (I try to get around 40% crit chance). As for the dueling minor, I agree long range blink makes the most sense.

Another nice thing is that a simple switch from torch to pistol enables you to trait phantasmal fury. That setup would boost your damage quite a bit by stacking bleeds w/duelist. You have the option to do that if you wish, if playing pistol vs torch gives you an advantage vs some opponents. You can do it pretty much on the fly just before you enter a fight.

I think a spec built around maimed could potentially work with:
20/20/0/0/30 (torch traited or shattered concentration in PvP)
0/0/20/20/30 (manipulations and staff traited)
The spec we’re talking about here.

Pre-req is DE and you build from there. I’m sure we’ll be seeing other experimentation along these lines.

A final comment – for those who were wondering like me (because I never assume anything anymore where Anet is concerned), maimed is AoE on shatter like confusion shatter. Yeah pyro you were right, ha!

I was able to confirm with Grouch the other night – he got in game and validated it in their test bed.

As Pyro mentioned, people can just walk away from this build. Yes, you have torment but the scepter doesn’t spawn clones next to enemies fast enough and the scepter clones suck. I really think GS and IE are going to be really important to make sure a torment shatter build will actually be able to kill something.

GS2/4 will spawn clones on top of people, while crippling, bleeding, vulnerability and might stacking. Then shatter those for torment and confusion. They will be running away slowly and painfully while being confused as to if they should remove some cover conditions. This will actually stop people from getting away. The GS clones can quickly stack bleeds and IE will also buff the staff clones damage a lot as well.

Assuming traveler runes aren’t getting nerfed, I might actually go for those as well. 2 stacks of torment in a small aoe around you when you heal isn’t going to help you chase or get away as much as traveler will.