Guild Wars 2

Prepare yourselves folks, cause this one’s a doozy.

With a scepter equipped, malicious sorcery not only causes scepter attacks to increase in speed by 15%, but in fact causes EVERYTHING to increase in speed by 15%.

Including, but not limited to, offhand attacks, heals, mantra charging, mass invis, and stomping.

Tested and confirmed by frame counting in premier.

Lololol
At least its as good as Ineptitude… until the next patch i guess!!!?

ANet staff is a complete joke.

Time to use it with GS for a month until fixed.

“Increases attack speed while wielding a scepter.” that’s exactly what it says!
While I didn’t think mantras recharge was intended, I actually think this one does the right thing. Now they may change their mind on this later, but right now it does what I expect it to!

Silverkey.2078:

“Increases attack speed while wielding a scepter.” that’s exactly what it says!

Ahah, if we are playing with words, yes indeed !

When I was testing the Scepter attack speed, I was wondering if something was weird with my off hand sword when I was spawning iSword, but I didn’t investigate. Looks like something was off !

GG, good work Pyro. Fencer’s Finesse and Malicious Sorcery are my favourite now, they are not OP and makes the Scepter play interesting.

Now imagine pairing it with torch. Lol

kitten , you aren’t supposed to bring attention to this.

To see if this is on purpose, how does the longbow on ranger behave with “Lead the Wind” or warrior with “Dual Wielding” since the wording is similar?

We’ve speculated if this is how it was meant to work before it was fixed. It could be intentional, but given what happened to Mantras I suspect not. But if it’s only meant to affect attack speed then it really isn’t worthy of GM.

For a GM I think it’s in a fair position, bar stomps.

But what about ranger and warrior? I couldn’t find anything about it, which could imply it does not increase all attacks speed but it’s worth trying, no?

Levetty.1279:

kitten , you aren’t supposed to bring attention to this.

I don’t want this to be the cause of more nerfs down the line, then they find this out and fix it and leave the other nerfs.

i notice it yesterday and kept my mouth shut

why Pyro why…..

i wanted to have fun with it for few moments

and i dont think anet meant it to work like that for our whole attackes ability to get 15% increase . only the scepter as it illusion (condi) line mainly

Again do we actually know this isn’t intended? We’ve been talking about it in these forums for a bit so (assuming they read the forums) they should be aware of this. And really, +15% to Ether Bolt’s attack speed is really crappy for a GM trait.

Embolism.8106:

Again do we actually know this isn’t intended? We’ve been talking about it in these forums for a bit so (assuming they read the forums) they should be aware of this. And really, +15% to Ether Bolt’s attack speed is really crappy for a GM trait.

The trait obviously is intended to increase the speed at which scepter skills execute. The trait obviously is not intended to increase the global speed at which all actions execute. This is easily deduced by the application of just a bit of logic and common sense. Now, I know that applying common sense to the dev team is always a bit of a risky proposition, but I’m pretty sure it works in this case.

Yeah, let’s please not delude ourselves into thinking that a gm trait for scepter CDs was meant to increase the movements of all our skills.

I’d rather not even get used to playing with such an obviously bugged trait. I don’t think 15% attack speed increase is even worth it for scepter alone. Bring back the 50% additional torment dmg or make it an interesting trait similar to Fencer’s Finesse.

Fay.2357:

With a scepter equipped, malicious sorcery not only causes scepter attacks to increase in speed by 15%, but in fact causes EVERYTHING to increase in speed by 15%.

Eh, yes?

I mean not to criticize Pyro, but why would you touch that trait with an 11-foot pole if this weren’t the case? That’s what it advertises, “15% attack speed while having a scepter equipped” (not “With scepter attacks”), is consistent with how other traits work, and well, is the whole selling point.

Ofc, granted, some of the things you mention are a bit tricky to classify as attacks, but even stomping technically is.

Happy to see that trait is fixed. Actually feels like a GM trait now.

MailMail.6534:

I’d rather not even get used to playing with such an obviously bugged trait. I don’t think 15% attack speed increase is even worth it for scepter alone.

You realize that the trait pretty clearly states that it’s not exclusive to the scepter attacks? And as you say, 15% speed on just those 3 attacks would be pointless.

Compare for example Guardian or Necromancer staff skills, neither of which are exclusive to the staff’s attacks.

The only questionable thing I could see here is stomping. Yes it’s an attack, but I doubt it was intended. OTOH, affecting all 10 slots seems very much what the tooltip advertises, is consistent with other traits, and would actually make it a choice compared to the alternatives.

So yeah, it’ll get changed. :P

Carighan.6758:

Fay.2357:

With a scepter equipped, malicious sorcery not only causes scepter attacks to increase in speed by 15%, but in fact causes EVERYTHING to increase in speed by 15%.

Eh, yes?

I mean not to criticize Pyro, but why would you touch that trait with an 11-foot pole if this weren’t the case? That’s what it advertises, “15% attack speed while having a scepter equipped” (not “With scepter attacks”), is consistent with how other traits work, and well, is the whole selling point.

Ofc, granted, some of the things you mention are a bit tricky to classify as attacks, but even stomping technically is.

Happy to see that trait is fixed. Actually feels like a GM trait now.

I’m not debating the underwhelmingness of the trait in normal form, but to think that the scepter trait is supposed to increase attack speed for everything is absurd bordering on delusional. Yes, I know we’ve gotten some nice things…but this is ridiculous.

Compare other classes’ traits.

Unless they specifically state the attacks affected, they are global. Guardian staff comes to mind since I use it, it increases boon duration. Of all boons you apply, not only through staff. Likewise the Necro trait affects marks and again, affects all marks, though most are ofc on the staff.

That it affects non-ability-animations is a bit weird, granted. But the trait very much says it affects attack speed (not attacks of scepter, like other skills do when just affecting a single weapon, compare the wording).

If this is not the intended use – and I bet it’ll get nerfed, we can’t have nice things – then it’s a huge mislead, I was hyped for the trait getting fixed because it’d affect all attacks. It’d also make the trait completely rubbish, so I guess that’d be par for the course…

All I’m saying is that I never expected the trait to effect anything but scepter attacks. I say this because, attack speed and clunkiness is something Mesmers have complained about in reference to scepter for a loooooong time.

We shall see. I’ll test it for a bit (didn’t get a chance to play tonight), but long-term, I still think Ineptitude will be leagues better.

Nice find.

On another note PU condition Mesmer rage incoming in 5, 4, 3….

Well, as long as it does not reduce the recharge of skills, It seems perfectly fine for me. Compare it to Prismatic understanding.

Does anyone know wether this still applies if you weapon swap to the alternate set?

Miroe.2054:

Does anyone know wether this still applies if you weapon swap to the alternate set?

No it doesn’t. As the text says, “While wielding a scepter”.

I went into a Fractal and I used Scepter vs Molten Dredge Boss and Mai (Block’er).

Traited, it was pretty good (bar when the Dredge would turn on my clones) since the DPS was equivalent to a ranged Sword. Notably Scepter 3 was ridiculously good since it was quick and painful with a short CD.

I actually didn’t really care about the bugged part where other casts are on a shorter CD, since the only skills I had with a cast time longer than half a second were: Offhand Phant and MoR. I rarely had to use MoR, ohPhant was not too useful compared to just auto attack and shatter.

I understand it can be super strong with Mantras (and stomping) but there aren’t that many other skills that it can be that great with (bar Shield Phant to get faster Alacrity out).

Hey, so I compared this to the engineer trait Skilled Marksman and it is possibly good news.

Compare:
You attack faster with a rifle or harpoon gun
Increases attack speed while wielding a scepter

The engi trait DOES increase rifle autoattack speed (as it obviously should)
30 attacks untraited: 24.6 seconds
30 attacks trated: 21.9 seconds

The engi trait DOES NOT increase res speed (implying they do have the tech/knowledge to implement it ONLY on weapon skills if they wish to)
Resing a dead NPC on training island (in combat):
Traited: 21.1s
Untraited: 21.3s

These numbers were hand-timed with a stopwatch but the margin of error is sufficiently low etc.

So it is possibly intentional. Maybe.

lol, this is a good one. xD

Toeofdoom.6152:

Hey, so I compared this to the engineer trait Skilled Marksman and it is possibly good news.

The engineer trait is quite differently worded, though.

Engineer trait: “You attack faster with a rifle…”
Mesmer trait: “You attack faster while wielding a scepter…”

If you look at weapon traits across classes, some explicitly state what they affect, others don’t. In the case of those which don’t specifically limit their effects to the weapon, they are global. AFAIK without exception. One example I cited above was Guardian Staff trait, another is Warrior OH trait. I think, don’t have a Warrior.

Carighan.6758:

Toeofdoom.6152:

Hey, so I compared this to the engineer trait Skilled Marksman and it is possibly good news.

The engineer trait is quite differently worded, though.

Engineer trait: “You attack faster with a rifle…”
Mesmer trait: “You attack faster while wielding a scepter…”

Indeed, that’s why I quoted the exact same lines you did – if it wasn’t clear, I think the test, and the difference in wording both point towards it being intentional.

That said, it’s not really conclusive.

Toeofdoom.6152:

Indeed, that’s why I quoted the exact same lines you did – if it wasn’t clear, I think the test, and the difference in wording both point towards it being intentional.

That said, it’s not really conclusive.

Oh. heh. Sorry, misunderstood you in that case.

I don’t see too much wrong with it because at least now it competes with Ineptitude, but I wouldn’t get my hopes up. Don’t forget that it also lowers the block duration for scepter 2 if I’m not mistaken. But a GM trait that only speeds up 3 skills and cuts the cd of 2 seems a little lackluster, especially considering how great MH sword is because of Blurred Frenzy alone.

I’ll play around with it, but if it gets nerfed I’ll just go back to Ineptitude which was probably a more reliable choice for PvP anyway.

Ah, but does it stack with Quickness?

IMHO this is quite simple:

- if it is a bug and will be fixed to work only with scepter attack (ie – will make autoattack faster) then it is a quite worthless trait even as minor – not even close to GM quality
- if it is a feature – then there is finally after all these years reason to use scepter and create build based on it

What you should do is put the 15% attack speed (only skill scepter) permanently without the grand master trait. And change the trait grand master “Malicious Sorcery”, adding an extra as the trait of sword or two-handed sword. To me the idea I can think of Malice. It is an extra that would fit nicely with scepter.

“Malicia”. Gain a stacking Malice effect when you or one of your illusions (only clones scepter) strike with a scepter.

-Effect of Malice: Increases by 1% damage confusion and torment (stack 10 = increases 10% damage condition of confusion and torment, only that and in combat).

In conclusion, to be a grand master trait, it should be something.

“Malicious Sorcery”
Gain a stacking Malice effect when you or one of your illusions (only clones scepter) strike with a scepter. Reduces recharge on scepter skills (20%).

@Angel

That’s kind of what I had in mind, except a 10% cap is really low for condition damage. I think 20% would be a better fit.

actually noticed this today in PvP and was comming here to post about it.

But hey work is done..

I dont think the trait needs a rework, just the bug fixed.

Silverkey.2078:

To see if this is on purpose, how does the longbow on ranger behave with “Lead the Wind” or warrior with “Dual Wielding” since the wording is similar?

That’s a good question. Has anyone checked these two, because the wording IS similar. The answer to that question will most likely verify what the devs had in mind for this one.

Or, of course, a dev could stop by and tell us whether its Working as Intended, or Bugged, so we can know whether or not we need to emotionally prepare ourselves for a nerf or not lol

Swish.2463:

actually noticed this today in PvP and was comming here to post about it.

But hey work is done..

I dont think the trait needs a rework, just the bug fixed.

What if it’s not a bug?

Also another option

“Sorcery Malicious”

Clones (only clones scepter) and scepter skill attacks (only that) inflicts confusion in your enemies (33% probability) (5s). Reduces recharge on scepter skills (20%).

*Considering the permanence of 15% speed attack of scepter, not included with a trait grandmaster.

Morfedel.4165:

Silverkey.2078:

To see if this is on purpose, how does the longbow on ranger behave with “Lead the Wind” or warrior with “Dual Wielding” since the wording is similar?

That’s a good question. Has anyone checked these two, because the wording IS similar. The answer to that question will most likely verify what the devs had in mind for this one.

Or, of course, a dev could stop by and tell us whether its Working as Intended, or Bugged, so we can know whether or not we need to emotionally prepare ourselves for a nerf or not lol

I just had a friend with a warrior try out Dual Wielding. It appears it functions the same way, according to him; if so, then it may actually be that this is performing as intended.

anyone have any counter evidence?

Morfedel.4165:

Morfedel.4165:

Silverkey.2078:

To see if this is on purpose, how does the longbow on ranger behave with “Lead the Wind” or warrior with “Dual Wielding” since the wording is similar?

That’s a good question. Has anyone checked these two, because the wording IS similar. The answer to that question will most likely verify what the devs had in mind for this one.

Or, of course, a dev could stop by and tell us whether its Working as Intended, or Bugged, so we can know whether or not we need to emotionally prepare ourselves for a nerf or not lol

I just had a friend with a warrior try out Dual Wielding. It appears it functions the same way, according to him; if so, then it may actually be that this is performing as intended.

anyone have any counter evidence?

Just tested the warrior trait dual wielding. It also affects all actions, including stomps. It does not affect ressing though, and I think that malicious sorcery won’t either. There’s a momentary bar that pops up when you begin a res, and it probably affects that, but the actual res speed is locked in.

So, conclusion, the trait is probably working “almost” as intended.
Question now: does this make it a good trait worthy of its GM spot?
I’m not so sure…

Silverkey.2078:

So, conclusion, the trait is probably working “almost” as intended.
Question now: does this make it a good trait worthy of its GM spot?
I’m not so sure…

No. It does very little to improve the Sceptre’s autoattack pressure and the benefit to long-casting skills isn’t that significant. If Mantras weren’t nerfed back to their clunky self then maybe, but as it is I still feel pressured to swap out of the Sceptre as soon as possible.

Confusing Images does feel better, but I chalk that up more to the CD reduction than the cast time.

Personally, I feel the way it is right now it’s worth it. Faster speed is very helpful for the AA-chain and Confusing Images, plus it helps with some casted skills. Coupled with the cooldown reduction it puts out some real pressure.

It feels more natural, but the #3 becomes ridiculously strong. I’m not sure if baselining the attack speed is justified, but moving it down a tier might make sense (not sure what to trade with it).

How does this affect MoP dps?

Should save ~1/2 a second off MoP’s channel. So it’s definitely an enhancement to MoP’s DPS. I’m not in a good place to calculate out the difference between MoP and Scepter AAs now, but I suspect that MoP is still stronger.

It wouldn’t be worth a GM slot even if the 15%-on-everything WAS intended, let alone for what’s actually written in the trait.

I still do not think it is a bug – compare it with Imagined Burden….

for the atk speed to actually matter it should be more like 25%

I just think the attack speed is not such an interesting buff on its own. So instead of 15% speed on all skills, I’d rather have 15% on scepter + some condition boost.