Guild Wars 2

Hello, I’m a returning player, and after a year I see that many things have changed, and I am having a lot of fun again!

My main and favourite class is mesmer and before I left (almost a year ago) I was experimenting with condition builds. The problem is that I mostly play PvE (WvW is a lot of fun, but 90% of the time I play on my old laptop = lag) and condition damage isn’t optimal for PvE.

I’ve read through the newest guides and builds and it seems S/S and S/F mantra phantasm build is the way to go, but I am not entirely comfortable with it since it has a bit less survivability and my phantasms die so quickly. I tried it vs some champion mobs solo and I mostly die with the phantasm build, while it’s much easier with conditions. It works in dungeons but I am not entirely happy with it, I feel like I’m missing something.

How do you deal with the lack of mobility? I use sword 2, 4 and utility skills for avoiding damage, but it’s still kinda static to me. And the lower AoE is troublesome (mobs can walk out of warden range). Are conditions builds really so bad in PvE?

I have no weapon preference if there is some other build you can recommend, or please just correct/enlighten me regarding the phantasm build.

What mobility are you missing? You don’t need mobility to avoid damage in PvE— you need evades, blocks, and invuln. You have Blurred Frenzy, you have dodges, you have a block with sword 4. The key is to recognize when an enemy is going to attack you (almost every attack is telegraphed, even slightly), and to prepare for it with one of those skills.

I guess with mobility and condition, you’re referring to staff (which has the 2 ability to get you out of trouble). With staff, you’re mostly running around kiting and never getting close to enemies— when you’re new, of course this is easier. The phantasm build requires a lot more work and concentration: you need to pay attention not just to how close the mob is (which you have to do when you’re kiting), but what the mob is actually doing. This can be hard at first, but is rewarding in the long run: you master the content and you win fights much more rapidly.

Keep in mind that you can always run a 2/4/0/4/4 build without mantras and focus more on phantasm damage. You can easily slot things like blink in that case to get more mobility without DPS loss. This is often an easier build to learn with— you can let your phants focus on damage while you just focus on keeping them alive and keeping yourself alive with your blocks. You can switch to mantras once you’re more comfortable.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I guess that I am much more comfortable with kiting. I am just more used to having the staff 2 as a jump back, while the sword jump is more offensive. I should have also used mantra of concentration/resolve instead of distraction, had too little condition removal. I’ll definitively work on this a bit more.

Another thing, in staff condition builds- am I supposed to use mind wrack? I use F3 and F4 for the utility, but for damage is it better to just leave the staff clones and let them apply conditions with their autos?

If you’re downing champs solo, I wouldn’t use focus unless you need the traited reflection. I’d stick to the sword offhand and even pistol. Champs hit hard so using these offhands you can place your phantoms at range in a circle around your target and keep them from getting insta-stomped. As they drop you’ll just replace em.

You’re right about no aoe without iWarden, but the immobile nature of the phantasm is a pain. I prefer GS for that because its phantasm attack is a whirling aoe that keeps it at range between attacks.

The build won’t change too much from fight to fight. But I like to change up my weapons depending on the situation.

Also, check out the new healing signet. It lets you summon back-to-back phantasms so ramp up time is non-existent.

In a condition build you’ll get a lot of bleeds from your clones attacking. But ideally you’ll have scepter and Deception Evasion so clone generation will be plentiful. Mind Wrack won’t deal that much damage imo compared to stacking sick bleeds. Plus, Debilitating Dissipation doesn’t trigger on shatter but it does on clone death from new generation. In other words, 3 clones out, Deceptive Evasion triggers, and an old clone dies…DD triggers, stacking more conditions on surrounding foes.

Personally, I don’t shatter unless I need the utility (or the confusion from Cry will be beneficial).

Lynne Fitzgerald.9254:

I’ve read through the newest guides and builds and it seems S/S and S/F mantra phantasm build is the way to go, but I am not entirely comfortable with it since it has a bit less survivability and my phantasms die so quickly. I tried it vs some champion mobs solo and I mostly die with the phantasm build, while it’s much easier with conditions. It works in dungeons but I am not entirely happy with it, I feel like I’m missing something.

The standard S/F+S/S build is not a build meant for soloing all champions. It’s primarily a dungeon running build, optimized for maximum damage output at close range. If you want to solo open world champions, you’d be better off tossing on a greatsword and letting them chase you around while your phants kill them.

Also, check out the new healing signet. It lets you summon back-to-back phantasms so ramp up time is non-existent. <— Ok this is amazing, did they change the other signets or does the boon signet still provide a very small bonus? I am glad mantras are now viable.

Thanks a bunch! This clears up the stuff I was confused about.

Lynne Fitzgerald.9254:

Also, check out the new healing signet. It lets you summon back-to-back phantasms so ramp up time is non-existent. <— Ok this is amazing, did they change the other signets or does the boon signet still provide a very small bonus? I am glad mantras are now viable.

Thanks a bunch! This clears up the stuff I was confused about.

Mantras have always been viable in PvE. They provide a static damage boost and great team utility. The reason they’re not as viable in PvP is because players generally won’t stand by and let you charge them back up. Mobs aren’t quite that smart.

The healing signet is a new skill they introduced comparatively recently. None of the other signets were touched.

Fay.2357:

Lynne Fitzgerald.9254:

I’ve read through the newest guides and builds and it seems S/S and S/F mantra phantasm build is the way to go, but I am not entirely comfortable with it since it has a bit less survivability and my phantasms die so quickly. I tried it vs some champion mobs solo and I mostly die with the phantasm build, while it’s much easier with conditions. It works in dungeons but I am not entirely happy with it, I feel like I’m missing something.

The standard S/F+S/S build is not a build meant for soloing all champions. It’s primarily a dungeon running build, optimized for maximum damage output at close range. If you want to solo open world champions, you’d be better off tossing on a greatsword and letting them chase you around while your phants kill them.

good god

why would you tell someone to use a greatsword to solo champions

Fay.2357:

Lynne Fitzgerald.9254:

Also, check out the new healing signet. It lets you summon back-to-back phantasms so ramp up time is non-existent. <— Ok this is amazing, did they change the other signets or does the boon signet still provide a very small bonus? I am glad mantras are now viable.

Thanks a bunch! This clears up the stuff I was confused about.

Mantras have always been viable in PvE. They provide a static damage boost and great team utility. The reason they’re not as viable in PvP is because players generally won’t stand by and let you charge them back up. Mobs aren’t quite that smart.

The healing signet is a new skill they introduced comparatively recently. None of the other signets were touched.

Yes, I should rephrase that into “they became popular”, mantra of concentration was my favourite for stability.

It’s rather funny to come back and see GS being unpopular and how things have changed.

maha.7902:

Fay.2357:

Lynne Fitzgerald.9254:

I’ve read through the newest guides and builds and it seems S/S and S/F mantra phantasm build is the way to go, but I am not entirely comfortable with it since it has a bit less survivability and my phantasms die so quickly. I tried it vs some champion mobs solo and I mostly die with the phantasm build, while it’s much easier with conditions. It works in dungeons but I am not entirely happy with it, I feel like I’m missing something.

The standard S/F+S/S build is not a build meant for soloing all champions. It’s primarily a dungeon running build, optimized for maximum damage output at close range. If you want to solo open world champions, you’d be better off tossing on a greatsword and letting them chase you around while your phants kill them.

good god

why would you tell someone to use a greatsword to solo champions

Because open world champions often have awful ai. You can spawn 2 iZerkers and 1 iSwordsman for nearly permanent cripple, then just run around in circles as they relentlessly chase you to close distance. It’s probably not the absolute fastest way to do some champions, but it sure is easy.

frifox posted a nice video comparing a good melee solo of the Champ Ice Wolf in CoE to a GS camping solo. The difference in times was negligible. When you don’t have the group buffs and cleave advantages of melee range, GS camping isn’t bad.

The question is ~why~ you want to GS camp, and in particular, why you are solo-ing this content. If you want to get it done easily, there are better ways than soloing (zerging, bringing friends). You solo for the challenge usually— and kiting has no challenge. Solo-ing with melee prepares you for the situations where you need to melee (with good groups in dungeons) and helps you become a better player.

If you just care about completion, well, then kite away.

Anyway, this is getting off-topic. If OP wants to become better with the meta phantasm builds, they have to practice with the meta phantasm builds— that’s the only solution.

maxinion.8396:

The question is ~why~ you want to GS camp, and in particular, why you are solo-ing this content.

I can only speak for myself here, but when I was doing map completion, my standard set was GS+sword/focus or sword/sword, because GS is just a nice weapon for open world. Now and then I’d run into a champion…so I’d kill it. It was in the way.

Fay.2357:

maxinion.8396:

The question is ~why~ you want to GS camp, and in particular, why you are solo-ing this content.

I can only speak for myself here, but when I was doing map completion, my standard set was GS+sword/focus or sword/sword, because GS is just a nice weapon for open world. Now and then I’d run into a champion…so I’d kill it. It was in the way.

Same here. GS is a better 2nd set for open world running than s/s or s/f when you’re already running the other. And it doesn’t negate your ability to fight in melee either. You still have distortion, blurred frenzy, and dodges, not to mention an “o crap” knockback and kite if it gets too hairy for someone inexperienced with Mesmer.

maxinion.8396:

frifox posted a nice video comparing a good melee solo of the Champ Ice Wolf in CoE to a GS camping solo. The difference in times was negligible. When you don’t have the group buffs and cleave advantages of melee range, GS camping isn’t bad.

The question is ~why~ you want to GS camp, and in particular, why you are solo-ing this content. If you want to get it done easily, there are better ways than soloing (zerging, bringing friends). You solo for the challenge usually— and kiting has no challenge. Solo-ing with melee prepares you for the situations where you need to melee (with good groups in dungeons) and helps you become a better player.

If you just care about completion, well, then kite away.

Anyway, this is getting off-topic. If OP wants to become better with the meta phantasm builds, they have to practice with the meta phantasm builds— that’s the only solution.

he literally never melee’d the champion in his melee solo, just spawned phantasms, kited it around over and over again and then went in when he had frenzy and riposte up. if he actually had more than 0.1% melee uptime, the melee kill would have been faster.

Because open world champions often have awful ai. You can spawn 2 iZerkers and 1 iSwordsman for nearly permanent cripple, then just run around in circles as they relentlessly chase you to close distance. It’s probably not the absolute fastest way to do some champions, but it sure is easy.

Right – so when you solo champions you’re doing it because “ok it’s just me let’s see if i can take on this guy”. There’s a wrong way and a right way you can do this. You can either go “I don’t even care to learn the mechanics”, pewpew with your laser sword and kill it if after a year, or you can take the time to figure out the mechanics and melee it. if you just want a champ bag just write in the map chat that the champ is up and afk 111111 it down.

maha.7902:

Right – so when you solo champions you’re doing it because “ok it’s just me let’s see if i can take on this guy”. There’s a wrong way and a right way you can do this. You can either go “I don’t even care to learn the mechanics”, pewpew with your laser sword and kill it if after a year, or you can take the time to figure out the mechanics and melee it. if you just want a champ bag just write in the map chat that the champ is up and afk 111111 it down.

It’s simpler than that. Map completion is boring. Most of the champs I face I’ll never actually fight again. Combine those two, and you get me just soloing them down with gs to amuse myself while I’m pushing through a map.

maha.7902:

he literally never melee’d the champion in his melee solo, just spawned phantasms, kited it around over and over again and then went in when he had frenzy and riposte up. if he actually had more than 0.1% melee uptime, the melee kill would have been faster.

s/s/p was faster by a few seconds even with all the kiting. If you absolutely can’t stay alive in melee then yes, gs & 3x berserkers is a completely viable option – braindead simple and gets you near same killtimes as s/s/p. Other than that, there is no real reason to camp GS (apart from just being too lazy).

maha.7902:

Right – so when you solo champions you’re doing it because “ok it’s just me let’s see if i can take on this guy”. There’s a wrong way and a right way you can do this. You can either go “I don’t even care to learn the mechanics”, pewpew with your laser sword and kill it if after a year, or you can take the time to figure out the mechanics and melee it. if you just want a champ bag just write in the map chat that the champ is up and afk 111111 it down.

Learning the mechanics and then putting that knowledge into action implies that we’d fight that champ a couple times. Most often though, you just come across one while traveling and decide “never seen him before….but that needs to die.” Pew-pew ensues.

I use greatsword at Tequatl

Do I know the encounter? I do. Do I have to risk myself meleeing him? Eh… nope. I camp Gsword and still have the same result. Because of its big hit box, Berserker actually deals more damage and survives longer than my swordmen.

There’s no need to justify one’s weapon or playstyle choice. If someone feels the “need” to sneer and spit at you for playing with a greatsword instead of marching in lockstep with whatever the current minmax fad is, it really says more about them than about you.