Guild Wars 2

okay, I’m new in playing a mesmer, and so far, starting to like it.
I do see alot of different builds, and have taken some from here, some from there to form my very own.
Now, i’m wondering why I see so little builds with mantra’s…. is it that bad to use (PVE or WvW that is then) or is there an other reason for not using mantra’s in a build?

Thanks alot for your vue in this.

The main reason for using mantras is Empowering Mantras.
The other reason for using mantras is Mender’s Purity.
The final reason for using mantras is Restorative Mantras.

And, in order:
EM:+4% Damage for each mantra charged.
MP: Remove 2 Conditions when you heal, no ICD.
RM: Heal for ~2600 AoE when you charge a mantra.

The fairly standard baseline dungeon PvE build makes use of several mantras and Empowering Mantras.

Mantra of Domination is the foundation of most PvP lockdown builds and the condition cleanse mantra is a go-to choice for condition defense.

In brief. Mantra mechanics are horrid, and having a full mantra build will only get you killed in WvW.

In any pvp environment as a Mesmer you will need

• Decoy (for stun break and target drop)
• Blink (For stun break, gap opener, gap closer, and mobility)
• Condi cleanse (doesnt matter which one but you’re gonna need one).

Full mantra’s strip Mesmers of their ability to survive and weigh a player down with the burden of their mechanics.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Full mantra’s strip Mesmers of their ability to survive and weigh a player down with the burden of their mechanics.

“Full mantras” is a strawman, though. The only builds that want all mantras are EM PvE builds that almost never activate any utility.

The thing is, any build that actually makes regular use of mantras doesn’t want all mantras. The recast will kill you. I’d say a mantra builds wants about… two mantras, ideally.

Mender’s Purity mantra heal is the most spammable condition removal. It opens up a utility slot for something other than condition removal, without forcing you to drop Blink or Decoy from your bar. That’s not a bad starting point.

Another weakness (a dumb one) is that your enemies know exactly what your current state of the fight is since they see your charges.

It’s like playing poker with all your cards lying open on the table. Pretty dumb, that.

If I understand the OP correctly, they aren’t asking why don’t we see builds with a full utility bar of mantras, but why so many builds with zero mantras at all. Yes, the reason you don’t see anyone in wvw with a full bar of mantras is, as Ross explained, that it would be horrible. Why you see people running none, I don’t personally understand, but I think some people just can’t get used to them or don’t see how good they can be.

I think there are a number of good builds that use one or two mantras. Here are a couple:

People complain about mesmer’s condi cleanse, but in my build with Harmonious mantras and mender’s purity (6 in Dueling and 2 in Inspiration), I’m clearing 6 conditions every 10 seconds, and recasting the mantra isn’t an issue; I never get stomped by condis. So that is one case where, if you trait for it, the mantra heal can be amazing. Some people hate the recast time. It’s not that hard to do, I’ve never had a problem, even not using stealth. You really don’t get interrupted if you get used to it. The mantra heal is instant once it’s charged, and it has saved me tons of times. If you get caught in a stun without your stun breaker, you still can heal yourself and clear conditions. It’s saved me a bunch in really tight spots getting jumped in wvw.

The heal mantra also synergies really well with any of the on heal rune sets, centaur balthazzar etc.

Mantra of distraction is the only truly instant ranged daze in the game (maybe except some thief stuff), and that makes it powerful. You will not successfully interrupt a heal except on accident without MoD. With MoD you can see the blue, hit your manta, and ruin their day. So, even though it’s not like interrupts win fights or make you OP by any means, if you enjoy a more CC type play style and like the idea of interrupting people, especially if you trait for some nice interrupt bonuses beyond just the control gained from the interrupt, MoD is great.

I’d be very surprised if I ever saw anyone running in wvw with more than two mantras slotted, but one or two can work fine.

I like mantras. zerker stats and harmonious and empowering. run in eotm with it a lot. centaur runes give you the swiftness on those 3 heals. mantra I keep are condi cleanse and power break. clean u and allies and stability to u and allies. save ur peeps from necro fear on those narrow walkways :p. 9th slot i change around to the daze mantra or portal for the zerg. or any skill I need at the moment. the burst is pretty fun on gs. then I use sword and switch between focus/pistol/torch based on needs atm. if u like mantras go for it.

Mantra’s are more like the icing to the cake, a little something on the side for its users. It’s not practical in any aspect of the game to go full mantra. It doesn’t work as I’m sure some people would like it to.

On top of that mantra’s themselves are not everyone’s cup of tea for obvious reasons. There are definitely builds out there that incorporate one or two, but don’t use them to build around. So it’s not a lack of mantra’s in builds, it’s the fact you won’t find an optimal all mantra build and that not everyone likes mantra’s due to there cast times and being vulnerable and what not.

ASP.8093:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Full mantra’s strip Mesmers of their ability to survive and weigh a player down with the burden of their mechanics.

“Full mantras” is a strawman, though. The only builds that want all mantras are EM PvE builds that almost never activate any utility.

The thing is, any build that actually makes regular use of mantras doesn’t want all mantras. The recast will kill you. I’d say a mantra builds wants about… two mantras, ideally.

Mender’s Purity mantra heal is the most spammable condition removal. It opens up a utility slot for something other than condition removal, without forcing you to drop Blink or Decoy from your bar. That’s not a bad starting point.

This is kind of true (of mantra heal), only the heal sucks and you’ll find yourself starved for healing when Ether Fest just does the job perfectly.

I’ll, personally have to disagree about Mantra of Recovery being useless. I run a shatter build, but still find it to be a very useful heal, if managed well. Having no cast animation makes it hard to interrupt, when charged. I’m also sure, that when stun locked by a warrior you can still use the mantra if charged.
Having two charges on the mantra again, does require good management, but it’s not useless.

DoomKnightMax.6592:

I’ll, personally have to disagree about Mantra of Recovery being useless. I run a shatter build, but still find it to be a very useful heal, if managed well. Having no cast animation makes it hard to interrupt, when charged. I’m also sure, that when stun locked by a warrior you can still use the mantra if charged.
Having two charges on the mantra again, does require good management, but it’s not useless.

I’ll give you that the utility/mechanic of it is awesome. But the healing power/potential pails in comparison to ether fest. I can’t see the benefits compensating for the detriment.

Personally I feel the bad thing about Mantra of Recovery is the predictable downtime. If you only have 1 charge left, and use it meaning to reset it to two in what seems to be a lull in fighting but then need it, you’re kind of screwed. You don’t have that problem with the other heals. But it’s definitely the best heal for heal trigger sigils and traits. So I guess the offset is there

Some mantras would be pretty cool if they used a press and hold mechanic instead of charges, and a rebalanced cd. Start at a baseline value of the effect, with a static mechanic on use, but charging it up to a point (1-2 sec) before releasing doing something extra. Like, clearing 4 condis instead of 2 at max, 3 in the middle. So it’d be your choice when to trigger it when using.