Guild Wars 2

We all know what I’m about to say: Mantras are again “meh”. And I have to agree they were kinda ridiculous with this so called “bug” that the cd started after channeling instead of using the last charge. But right now (and I’m sure I’m not the only one) I feel like a little child that had his pacifier replaced with a lollypop and now vice versa again

The problem is, that this pacifier was very disgusting and the lollypop too sweet. I’d prefer a dental care candy instead

Not lets stop the metaphoric stuff and come to the point: Mantas need some love, something like pre “fix” but not that hard.

Mantra of Recovery
Now this one has the biggest issue imo. It has a 10 sec cd and heals and cleanses conditions. The problem with it is: Why would you EVER leave a charge or two left? You will have terrible consequences when you leave the last charge for a condi cleanse but then use it and see that there is a 10 sec cd on it! You will always be forced to use all the stacks in pvp and only in pve you may be able to use stack for stack for condi cleanses, but even then it’s a dangerious game.

Mantra of Pain
Sub … yea you’re fine Have a nice day!

Mantra of Distraction and Mantra of Concentration
Those are actually fine. You don’t feel forced to spam them through because you need the heal or something. But the main problem here is again – why leaving one charge? Why two if you got some time to run (pve) or feel safe for a moment (pvp)? It’s again the fear of the long cd, this is the major problem of all mantras.

Mantra of Resolve
Same as the two above – but additionaly this mantra became kinda obsolete compared to the healing mantra and power cleanse. I suggest we also add a few seconds of resistance here for the pvp sake!

The solution I suggest here is that manta cd start to run, after using a charge, but only a part of it! For example if you have a Mantra with 30 sec cd, and use all charges, you have 30 sec cd. When you use one charge, the cd reduces by 1 sec per sec (ofc) until 20 sec. Now spamming the other two charges leaves you with 20 sec cd! If you would have only one charge left, It’d be 10 sec cd.

TL;DR:
The cd should be per charge and not for the whole mantra. If you want a cheaper solution to program: Just reduce the CD to 0 again and weaken the healing mantra a bit, since it honestly was the only op one of all mantras.

Right now they feel so weak again and I enjoyed the not glamour pve play and the not shatter only pvp play.

Thank you for putting the first half of this post into words. The minute I have time in game and a incomplete mantra charge I burn what I have left and recharge it. The post 6/23 patch really eliminated this problem for me or at least made it more bearable so I wouldn’t spend as long sitting around. As of now mantras are at the point where I don’t even feel like they are worth taking at all in PvE. Despite using no mantras I am forced into taking Harmonious Mantras in dueling because the other two GMs are useless (for PvE) but Dueling is a great line.

Menders purity(?) is currently throwing mantra of resolve in to full cd if you use a stack of power return. This is gamebreaking for many of my builds.

Xyonon.3987:

TL;DR:
The cd should be per charge and not for the whole mantra. If you want a cheaper solution to program: Just reduce the CD to 0 again and weaken the healing mantra a bit, since it honestly was the only op one of all mantras.

This is a really clever solution to the problem, actually. I think it splits the difference nicely between the QoL buff of background recharge and the degenerate case of spamming six dazes/stuns in a row.

I could see implementing something like this:

• Go back to recharge-in-the-background.
• Whenever you use a charge, if the background recharge is less than {half total cooldown}, reset it to {half total cooldown}.

So there’s always a “gap” but if you spread out your charges you don’t have to wait as long for the final CD.

I don’t think it would be overpowered if Mantras can CD right to zero (instead of whatever percentage relative to remaining charges) as long as one change has been used in combat. The main problem was the first strike kitten nal Mesmers had going into every fight, as long as you can’t start with no CD on your Mantras it should be fine.

Embolism.8106:

The main problem was the first strike kitten nal Mesmers had going into every fight, as long as you can’t start with no CD on your Mantras it should be fine.

Even then, I think it wouldn’t be a big deal if CS+MoD wasn’t so great at setting up bursts. There are literally half a dozen different ways to nerf that combo without totally soaking everything else.

Double-dipping the defensive mantras (i.e. all the other ones) isn’t nearly as exploitative.

Double-dipping MoD is only potent because you can make it a 1.25-second stun, which makes it really easy to burst. But even then you seldom needed to double-dip since the first 2-3 tended to be enough to secure a kill.

I’m a broken record, I know.

ASP.8093:

Double-dipping MoD is only potent because you can make it a 1.25-second stun, which makes it really easy to burst. But even then you seldom needed to double-dip since the first 2-3 tended to be enough to secure a kill.

Yup. The more I think about it, the more I think Confounding Suggestions just needs to be nuked from orbit. I just doubt ANet’s ability to balance it directly, and leaving it in will cause them to nerf the rest of our kit more and more until we’re totally useless for anything but dropping Mantra stuns on people. At which point, CS will finally get removed and then we’ll be just full on useless.

I’d rather they nuke CS now and leave us in an an unnecessarily-weakened state than nuke CS later and leave us in a totally kittened state.

Only realized this topic while i was already putting my thoughts into a new topic. It became so long that it didnt fit in a new reply here. So my opinion about mantras goes here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-Tales-A-Mantra-Novel/first#post5337866

tobascodagama.2961:

I’d rather they nuke CS now and leave us in an an unnecessarily-weakened state than nuke CS later and leave us in a totally kittened state.

That’s how they tend to balance stuff, though, when they’re not working carefully: nerf all the peripheral stuff in the best builds until they’re weakened enough to be “fair,” which leaves the whole profession with a single one-trick-pony build and a lot of chaff. Look at thieves.

I would literally pay $500 to see them revert the last patch and just cut MoD to 1/4 sec (which would make interrupt builds plenty powerful but no longer able to do “stunlock” cheese without going the full Dom/Chaos CI interrupt) or delete CS from the game.

As far as fixing mantras goes, why not just allow a partially charged mantra to recharge/reset to max charges when out of combat for a certain period of time (5-10 seconds maybe? If this is too “OP” on its own, why not make the ability a part of the Harmonious Mantras GM in Dueling)? That way there is no “spam” while in combat and waiting on recharge outside of combat is no longer so tedious.

Happicakes.2054:

As far as fixing mantras goes, why not just allow a partially charged mantra to recharge/reset to max charges when out of combat for a certain period of time (5-10 seconds maybe? If this is too “OP” on its own, why not make the ability a part of the Harmonious Mantras GM in Dueling)? That way there is no “spam” while in combat and waiting on recharge outside of combat is no longer so tedious.

This is basically how it works in WvW/PvE when you switch the skills out and replace them.

Making an explicit mechanic like this would be both a QoL improvement (not having to fiddle with your skill bar) and fix the issue in SPvP.

There used to be a time and age when Mantras were trying to be an interesting mechanical concept, they only had a single charge but a comparatively strong effect.

The idea was that you had a ~100% longer cast time, but in exchange your cast time came sort-of after the use, and when convenient. Sure, the cast time back then was too long and HM had such an overpowered interaction with them that they had to be changed, but conceptually the old Mantras actually felt like a specific ability type.

Whereas the current ones… I dunno… clunky is the best I can think of, but that fails to fully encompass just how bad they feel.

At this point I’d honestly just rip them out. Entirely. There’s plenty ideas for better skills, and Mantras as a skill type had their try, they failed, now get it over with.

Carighan.6758:

There used to be a time and age when Mantras were trying to be an interesting mechanical concept, they only had a single charge but a comparatively strong effect.

The idea was that you had a ~100% longer cast time, but in exchange your cast time came sort-of after the use, and when convenient. Sure, the cast time back then was too long and HM had such an overpowered interaction with them that they had to be changed, but conceptually the old Mantras actually felt like a specific ability type.

Whereas the current ones… I dunno… clunky is the best I can think of, but that fails to fully encompass just how bad they feel.

At this point I’d honestly just rip them out. Entirely. There’s plenty ideas for better skills, and Mantras as a skill type had their try, they failed, now get it over with.

I’d be completely ok with them being removed entirely. I went 8 months b4 the trait rework without touching a mantra bc of how poorly they function/feel. The ‘bug’ after the patch finally made them worthwhile to use, so they were incorporated into a few of my builds. It genuinely felt like we got a brand new line of utility skills for me.

Mikkel.8427:

Carighan.6758:

There used to be a time and age when Mantras were trying to be an interesting mechanical concept, they only had a single charge but a comparatively strong effect.

The idea was that you had a ~100% longer cast time, but in exchange your cast time came sort-of after the use, and when convenient. Sure, the cast time back then was too long and HM had such an overpowered interaction with them that they had to be changed, but conceptually the old Mantras actually felt like a specific ability type.

Whereas the current ones… I dunno… clunky is the best I can think of, but that fails to fully encompass just how bad they feel.

At this point I’d honestly just rip them out. Entirely. There’s plenty ideas for better skills, and Mantras as a skill type had their try, they failed, now get it over with.

I’d be completely ok with them being removed entirely. I went 8 months b4 the trait rework without touching a mantra bc of how poorly they function/feel. The ‘bug’ after the patch finally made them worthwhile to use, so they were incorporated into a few of my builds. It genuinely felt like we got a brand new line of utility skills for me.

This – felt so happy

Today I expirienced it again in fotm – it’s so annoying to have 1 or 2 stacks left, you have to change the mantra with a random different skill and then swap back so the CD is gone and you can recharge. It’s annoying to get always the full CD even if you have just 1 or 2 stacks left.

Now that I think about the whole “bug” the mantra CDs had, it felt more like a fix.((

Mikkel.8427:

I’d be completely ok with them being removed entirely. I went 8 months b4 the trait rework without touching a mantra bc of how poorly they function/feel. The ‘bug’ after the patch finally made them worthwhile to use, so they were incorporated into a few of my builds. It genuinely felt like we got a brand new line of utility skills for me.

Put up a separate post about my ideas for a replacement skill type.

I don’t know why but it feels more and more like something ANet MUST change again. Every time I use a mantra wich is not pain i feel cheated… I can’t really adapt anymore to these old mantras. I miss the QoL they had, and I WANT THEM BACK!!!

>:((((((((

OR BETTER YET GUYS, HOW ABOUT WE SPLIT PVP/PVE SKILL BALANCE ALREADY.

Wouldn’t it be lovely if, for once in this miserable class’s existence, we actually don’t get demolished in PvE due to pvp whine?

really not liking mantra’s now either in PvE… tempted to go back to a mirror build and dropping the mantra’s completely. Only use of them really now is for condi-cleanse. Lets me stand infront of mai-trin a little and wipe of the bleeds. Beyond that, meh.

Yeah there’s very little point putting yourself through the labour of mantras for anything other than that initial 1 second stun with MoD and CS now. I used to love taking Mantra of Recovery with Mender’s Purity and Empowered Mantras, for that extra 2.5K heal and extra condi removal, but now you have to give up DE for that combination, so it’s better to just take Ether Feast with Restorative Illusions for basically the same amount of cleanse with a better burst heal and the continued joy of DE. Once CS is adjusted, Mantras will have no value.

Zenith.7301:

OR BETTER YET GUYS, HOW ABOUT WE SPLIT PVP/PVE SKILL BALANCE ALREADY.

If this means bloody sPvP will no longer affect WvW/PvE with their whining and resulting nerfs, awesome.

Loony.3714:

Thank you for putting the first half of this post into words. The minute I have time in game and a incomplete mantra charge I burn what I have left and recharge it. The post 6/23 patch really eliminated this problem for me or at least made it more bearable so I wouldn’t spend as long sitting around. As of now mantras are at the point where I don’t even feel like they are worth taking at all in PvE. Despite using no mantras I am forced into taking Harmonious Mantras in dueling because the other two GMs are useless (for PvE) but Dueling is a great line.

I am sure this is a bug, but it is kinda cool that you get the Mantra Strength Buff when using Signet of the Ether and you are traited that Signets remove conditions. I guess the condi cleanse casts Mantra of Resolve? Only Signet of the Ether does this, none of the other signets.

Pine.6298:

Loony.3714:

Thank you for putting the first half of this post into words. The minute I have time in game and a incomplete mantra charge I burn what I have left and recharge it. The post 6/23 patch really eliminated this problem for me or at least made it more bearable so I wouldn’t spend as long sitting around. As of now mantras are at the point where I don’t even feel like they are worth taking at all in PvE. Despite using no mantras I am forced into taking Harmonious Mantras in dueling because the other two GMs are useless (for PvE) but Dueling is a great line.

I am sure this is a bug, but it is kinda cool that you get the Mantra Strength Buff when using Signet of the Ether and you are traited that Signets remove conditions. I guess the condi cleanse casts Mantra of Resolve? Only Signet of the Ether does this, none of the other signets.

It would be coming from Inspiration. Mender’s Purity procs power cleanse any time you use a heal skill, hence the mantra strength stack.

Pine.6298:

I am sure this is a bug, but it is kinda cool that you get the Mantra Strength Buff when using Signet of the Ether and you are traited that Signets remove conditions. I guess the condi cleanse casts Mantra of Resolve? Only Signet of the Ether does this, none of the other signets.

I don’t think it’s a bug. For the simple reason that they wrote “COUNTS FOR HARMONIOUS MANTRAS” all over Mender’s Purity in their preview material.

The mantra cd just feels so obviously wrong that I really expect them to change it again. I can’t beleve it should stay like this.

Xyonon.3987:

The mantra cd just feels so obviously wrong that I really expect them to change it again. I can’t beleve it should stay like this.

Honestly, I feel like they reverted it because they couldn’t figure out how to fix that second/third cast of Mender’s Purity otherwise. >.>

After 23/6 patch, I always suspect that there will be an elite specialization from another profession who use mantras with a trait that grants background recharge.

ASP.8093:

Honestly, I feel like they reverted it because they couldn’t figure out how to fix that second/third cast of Mender’s Purity otherwise. >.>

I would be completely unsurprised if this turned out to be the case.

I’d also be unsurprised if the whole reason it went background-charge in the first place was some side-effect of the way new Mender’s Purity works, tbh. (Note how they reverted it and now we have the Mender’s Purity + Mantra of Resolve bug.)

The circle of bugs ^H^H^H^H life, man.

ASP.8093:

and now we have the Mender’s Purity + Mantra of Resolve bug.

Didn’t notice nothing, explain yourself! :o

Xyonon.3987:

ASP.8093:

and now we have the Mender’s Purity + Mantra of Resolve bug.

Didn’t notice nothing, explain yourself! :o

Counterweight.7192:

Menders purity(?) is currently throwing mantra of resolve in to full cd if you use a stack of power return. This is gamebreaking for many of my builds.

It breaks while in combat. Menders activates resolve even if it is not charged = full cd. You can actually keep mantra of resolve in cd for a minute np due to this bug. ANET this needs fixing.

Sigh – reverting Mantras is easily one of the worst things they could do. For once since this game was released Mantras were being used for something other than unused slots to grant passive damage boosts, and now we cannot even do that.

Guess I’m going back to mostly ignoring these skills (maybe MoDistraction for PvP still) until they get their heads out of their kitten and realize what an amazing accidental change this was and that they should leave it in and, instead, have increased the CD on Mantra of Recovery (the only skill that was really over powered with this).

Sorry – but having to dump charges, wait on a CD, then recharge a skill between fights isn’t fun. At least with the ‘accidental’ method I could reliably keep Mantras charged.

I like the OP’s solution best, out of several proposed here. The difference between the ‘last charge’ and the next seems awkward at best and not in keeping with the dynamics of combat in this game.

RIght now I always swap a single or two charges of a mantra with any other utility skill and then swap back, so the cd is gone >_> This way you’ve got the 20 sec cd after the last time you used the mantra. In the background the CD is 20 sec every time you use a mantra. So it’s a semi good solution out of combat, but in combat it’s still horrible :<

*small heal and condi cleanse! – later again! – aaaaand wait for the inc 10 stacks bleeding from mai … CLEANSE! … well time to wait for cd now >_>" feels so wrong. same goes for daze n’ stability.

another solution or rather rework would be that mantras charge themselves over time → dmg mantra 1 charge every 3 sec, heal mantra 1 charge every 5 sec, daze, cleanse and stability every 7? something like this.