Mantras PvE?
I never really caught onto the whole Mantra craze in PvE because my guild has always liked me using a plethora of reflects (and I enjoy them too). So I’m curious with the Harmonious/Empowered Mantras changes, what does this build actually look like? (Or what DID it look like) And what are the current thoughts on mantras in PvE?
Mantras and Reflects used to go together very, very well. You could get maximum reflect damage + maximum reflect uptime in one build (the old 0/30 or 10/30 builds). Maximum reflect damage came from Empowering Mantras and 30 in dueling. Maximum reflect uptime came from Signet of Ether and traited iWarden (+ focus 4 + feedback). You could do all that with one build (just swapping the healing skill depending on the situation).
Now, the maximum uptime and maximum damage builds are different. Maximum reflect damage is 6/6/0/0/2, again with Empowering Mantras, and therefore depending very much on mantras. The maximum reflect uptime build is something like 2/4/0/4/4 or 2/4/0/5/3— these don’t depend on mantras at all. These have traited wardens which you can double with Signet of Ether and get 100% coverage on, as before. You could also do a hybrid like 6/4/0/4/0 to get Empowered Mantras + 100% reflect uptime— however this sacrifices 2 points in dueling so its reflect damage is decidedly sub-optimal compared to a 6/6 build. Its DPS might be better than the 2/4 builds, but I’m not sure about this yet.
I should note the 6/6 builds are probably more sword/pistol + sword/sword, and the others are all sword/focus + sword/pistol.
Which one do you take? Depends on the situations. Lupicus, for example, calls for maximum damage on reflects. Alphard calls for maximum reflect uptime. Be dynamic and trait according to the situation. The 6/6 builds are better at single target DPS because of Duelists; the focus builds are better at AoE because of Wardens. There are some interesting tradeoffs at play now, instead of one catch all build— this is annoying, but perhaps a good thing in the long run.
(edited by maxinion.8396)
I should also note that with the iWarden being as bugged as it is at the moment, some people seem to be favoring the 6/6 setups and avoiding focus altogether because of that. Losing the pull from focus 4 seems pretty drastic though, so I’m not sure if I’m going to go that way.
You don’t ever build for mantras in PvE.
Sometimes you will need the condition cleanse mantra (Mai Trin is a good example)
Sometimes you will need the stability mantra (harpy fractal trash)
that’s about it.
I never really caught onto the whole Mantra craze in PvE because my guild has always liked me using a plethora of reflects (and I enjoy them too). So I’m curious with the Harmonious/Empowered Mantras changes, what does this build actually look like? (Or what DID it look like) And what are the current thoughts on mantras in PvE?
Mantras and Reflects used to go together very, very well. You could get maximum reflect damage + maximum reflect uptime in one build (the old 0/30 or 10/30 builds). Maximum reflect damage came from Empowering Mantras and 30 in dueling. Maximum reflect uptime came from Signet of Ether and traited iWarden (+ focus 4 + feedback). You could do all that with one build (just swapping the healing skill depending on the situation).
Now, the maximum uptime and maximum damage builds are different. Maximum reflect damage is 6/6/0/0/2, again with Empowering Mantras, and therefore depending very much on mantras. The maximum reflect uptime build is something like 2/4/0/4/4 or 2/4/0/5/3— these don’t depend on mantras at all. These have traited wardens which you can double with Signet of Ether and get 100% coverage on, as before. You could also do a hybrid like 6/4/0/4/0 to get Empowered Mantras + 100% reflect uptime— however this sacrifices 2 points in dueling so its reflect damage is decidedly sub-optimal compared to a 6/6 build. Its DPS might be better than the 2/4 builds, but I’m not sure about this yet.
I should note the 6/6 builds are probably more sword/pistol + sword/sword, and the others are all sword/focus + sword/pistol.
Which one do you take? Depends on the situations. Lupicus, for example, calls for maximum damage on reflects. Alphard calls for maximum reflect uptime. Be dynamic and trait according to the situation. The 6/6 builds are better at single target DPS because of Duelists; the focus builds are better at AoE because of Wardens. There are some interesting tradeoffs at play now, instead of one catch all build— this is annoying, but perhaps a good thing in the long run.
Okay! That all sounds awesome! However I’m a little confused as to what you mean about depending very much on mantras. Do you mean taking Mantra of Pain and Resolve along with say, feedback? What slots skills are you referring to for each of the build (6/6/0/0/2 vs. 2/4/0/4/4)? Which traits exactly are you speaking about?
Okay! That all sounds awesome! However I’m a little confused as to what you mean about depending very much on mantras. Do you mean taking Mantra of Pain and Resolve along with say, feedback? What slots skills are you referring to for each of the build (6/6/0/0/2 vs. 2/4/0/4/4)? Which traits exactly are you speaking about?
So when I say a build “depends on mantras,” it means you’re using Empowering Mantras for the +4% per mantra damage. That means you’ll want 3 mantras + feedback on your bar. What 3 mantras you want depends on the situation. You’ll always have Mantra of Recovery— it’s a great heal, and it’s a free 4%. The other two will change between Distraction, Concentration, and Resolve depending on the situation. I prefer Concentration and Resolve in most situations as they’re fairly defensive and good for cleansing yourself/ stunbreaking/ etc. The 3 point minor trait in Domination gives Vulnerability on Daze, which is also quite nice actually, and makes Mantra of Distraction very worthwhile. And of course, you want Feedback as your last skill, since maximizing its damage is the whole point of the build. So in any 6/x/x/x/x build, your goal is to always have as many mantras as possible, but swap around if necessary (for example, I bring blink for Lupi since I am a scrub newb who needs it for phase 3).
Traits for 6/6/0/0/2 builds should be something like:
Domination: III, ???, XI (or whatever Empowering Mantras is)
Dueling: II, IV, (IX, X, or XI) (X is useful for Lupi, Duelist Discipline is probably better in most situations. XI, Harmonious Mantras, might be nice if you find yourself using the Mantras often and losing DPS.)
Illusions: III
Basically, we’re just taking skills which increase damage or reduce cooldowns. Your Master trait in Domination has no good options, really… IV, V, or VI are probably the best options but aren’t very good (this is one reason why people are sad about the move of Empowering Mantras to this trait line… it’s so unrewarding…). You’re not using reflecting wardens, so you might as well use Pistol instead since it’s higher damage. Your other offhand is sword of course. Your main hand is sword.
For a 2/4/0/4/4 build, you’d do:
Domination: III
Dueling: II, IV
Inspiration: II, VIII
Illusions: III, X
Again, basically choosing things which improve cooldowns and damage (though note that here we also improve cooldowns of Feedback with the II in inspiration). The core of this build is the VIII in inspiration, which gives you the reflecting Warden. And of course, for this build, you don’t actually need mantras, so you can use Signet of Ether to quickly double phantasms, or use whatever other utilities you want (ironically I find myself using mostly mantras still since they’re often the best choice). Your weapons are sword/sword and sword/focus.
Other options for the 2/x builds are 2/3/0/5/4 (which loses Dueling IV and some crit chance/damage but gains 15% phant damage from the Inspiration grandmaster minor) or 2/4/0/5/3 (which trades the X in Inspiration for that same Inspiration grandmaster minor).
The 6/4/0/4/0 build you should be able to piece together now, since it’s just a merging of the above builds. I’m actually starting to think that this might be the best “reflect uptime” build, as it might offer the highest DPS of the reflect uptime builds. The difference between this and the various 2/x builds is likely marginal though.
Hope this helps! All that’s certain right now is which build gives maximum reflect damage. What gives the best DPS with good reflect uptime is still being determined.
(edited by maxinion.8396)
You don’t ever build for mantras in PvE.
Sometimes you will need the condition cleanse mantra (Mai Trin is a good example)
Sometimes you will need the stability mantra (harpy fractal trash)
that’s about it.
In this exhibit, someone who has never seen a Lupi proper phase 3 skip.
You don’t ever build for mantras in PvE.
Sometimes you will need the condition cleanse mantra (Mai Trin is a good example)
Sometimes you will need the stability mantra (harpy fractal trash)
that’s about it.
In this exhibit, someone who has never seen a Lupi proper phase 3 skip.
“that’s about it”
You don’t ever build for mantras in PvE.
Sometimes you will need the condition cleanse mantra (Mai Trin is a good example)
Sometimes you will need the stability mantra (harpy fractal trash)
that’s about it.
In this exhibit, someone who has never seen a Lupi proper phase 3 skip.
“that’s about it”
It’s not like the fastest Lupi solo time uses mantras or anything: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDePcHC2pd4
Or the fastest Lupi all mesmer group: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnxPbtWkeYc
Or the authority on solo’ing Arah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qf-PP2VBBBI
Or solo fractal 80’s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CndcoIwxAcs
Or the CMp3 record: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUqUbDEdHuU&feature=youtu.be
Yeah, it must be that all these records are made by scrubs who don’t know how to build for PvE. That they’re all the best examples of gameplay in GW2, and all use Empowering Mantras and three Mantras in most situations, is just a coincidence.
(edited by maxinion.8396)
What about Mantra Mastery? Wouldn’t that increase damage by having higher uptime on Mantra charges? Or is it higher damage increase having Fury on phantasms?
What about Mantra Mastery? Wouldn’t that increase damage by having higher uptime on Mantra charges? Or is it higher damage increase having Fury on phantasms?
That’s a good point, but I think generally the Fury wins out (since, Pyroatheist correct me, there is no other way for Phants to get Fury). Ideally you just use one of your mantra charges per fight so that you keep your full bonus at all times, but especially for when you feedback. In longer fights (Mossman, Archdiviner, Lupi) there are usually invulnerable phases for the boss when you can recharge if necessary without losing damage.
You’ve remind me though that sometimes it might be worth using the XI trait in Dueling, Harmonious Mantras. This gives you an extra charge of the Mantras, so you can use them twice before losing DPS. You only give up Duelist’s Discipline in most situations, which is not a super critical trait, so this can be a good trait. I’ll edit above to reflect this.