Guild Wars 2

Hey there,

I just wanted to ask what the hag ANet wants to cause with our Mantras.

Are there any viable builds out there with at least using two or more Mantras? Is anybody using them?

While I really like the idea of this spells the reality looks quite depressive for me.

So, can anybody help me and clarify the “use” or “sense” of them?

Thanks!

Most pvp builds usually use one to supplement the playstyle, such as distraction for interrupt builds and cleanse for shatter. Otherwise, the only other meta* build that uses multiple is for pve dps.

If you know a meta build for pve with them, do you mind posting it? Haven’t found something like that.

30/30/0/0/10 with 3-4 mantras iirc.

You can check out more guides of Sanderinoa in his channel. This is my favorite, though:

30/30/0/0/10
0/30/0/25/15
10/30/0/30/0

All the meta builds use them, the reason to go 30 in duelling is because of them. They also have awesome synergies with good inspiration traits, such as heal on charging a mantra (up to 800 HpS thx to Mantra of Pain) or cleansing 2 conditions when using the healing skill.

They also grant excellent buffs, aoe stability / condi cleanse if required, interruption is also great for bosses like that aetherblade chick or the frost fractale dude with his chilling breath etc.

Normally you can use the mantra heal and condi cleanse for 8% dmg. Feedback is often a must, many also like a good ol’ blink. However if you take blink for the stun breaker, the stability mantra does the job better (harpy, golem worldboss, molten dudes etc). Just use them as fillers. Tbh, if you use 0 of them in a situation, just swap the traits. <3

Nyel.1843:

Hey there,

I just wanted to ask what the hag ANet wants to cause with our Mantras.

They don’t know. They’re bumbling around trying to get them to work.

Nyel.1843:

Are there any viable builds out there with at least using two or more Mantras? Is anybody using them?

2 Mantras? Sure. More than that? Questionable. 2 mantras still falls within my personal mantra use definition: as a spice to add that extra bit of ‘something’ to a build. So if I’m facing a condie engineer or necro or something, sometimes I’ll take mender’s purity + heal mantra + condition removal mantra.

Past 2 mantras though, and you’re really pigeonholing yourself into long charge times and inability to effectively fight once your charges are gone.

Edit: Sorry, this was a post based on PvP. For PvE, you basically go 30 into dueling and then stick in mantras as default utilities wherever you can to boost your damage.

Judging from recent updates, I would assume small group play in general (PvP, small group roaming in WvW), as well as offer more group benefits for a defensive/boon heavy mesmer. The main problem I have with mantras is that you can’t really make a focused build around them because their natures are either a) defensive or b) utility/debuff.
MoP is the only mantra that does damage and it’s not terribly impressive.

So in general, you are better off using no more than 2 mantras, maybe 3 if you use mantra heal. Loading your bar up with mantras generally means you have more downtime where you are not doing any damage directly, and mantras don’t really offer a lot of benefits when it comes to doing condition damage. Considering how many traits we have dealing with mantras, including 2 GM traits, I think their offensive options are too limited.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Past 2 mantras though, and you’re really pigeonholing yourself into long charge times and inability to effectively fight once your charges are gone.

MoD and Furious Interruption lets you do some quick recharges, but it’s hard to pull off reliably and it feels like you are only compensating for a weakness, not giving yourself an edge.

Xyonon.3987:

30/30/0/0/10
0/30/0/25/15
10/30/0/30/0

All the meta builds use them, the reason to go 30 in duelling is because of them. They also have awesome synergies with good inspiration traits, such as heal on charging a mantra (up to 800 HpS thx to Mantra of Pain) or cleansing 2 conditions when using the healing skill.

They also grant excellent buffs, aoe stability / condi cleanse if required, interruption is also great for bosses like that aetherblade chick or the frost fractale dude with his chilling breath etc.

Normally you can use the mantra heal and condi cleanse for 8% dmg. Feedback is often a must, many also like a good ol’ blink. However if you take blink for the stun breaker, the stability mantra does the job better (harpy, golem worldboss, molten dudes etc). Just use them as fillers. Tbh, if you use 0 of them in a situation, just swap the traits. <3

I can quite safely confirm that no meta guilds use 10/30/0/30/0.

Your personal build =/= meta build.

Thank you for the answer.

Nice to read something about it. I just thought about making a Mantra-build but yeah… as mentioned here, there is none regarding the fact that there is a “wider” symbiosis missing with them. Just filler spells.

Would love to see more Mantras like MoP. Maybe some kind of Elite-Mantra would be great for the playstyle. Something like:

Mantra of Conditions

Applies burning, confusion, poison, torment or bleeding to the target. ( at least 3 of them that there is this “Elite” factor )

Mantra Mastery

Charges your equipped Mantras instantly.

I don’t know. Something like that.

Is something known about ANets will to add new skills?

Anet has added new healing skills unique to each class and that anti-toxin heal available to everyone, so I wouldn’t be surprised if more skills were added down the road.

If they’re going to add more skills for the mesmer, I hope it’s not another mantra due to the current cumbersome nature of them.

The fact is, there are a host of simultaneous actions one can perform without interrupting a mantra charge, and something that can be adaptable for players willing to put the work into it. Even still, going full mantras is useful for very few things in all game formats. Overall the play style is quite clunky and generally not preferred beyond anything more than one or two for utility.

Nyel.1843:

Is something known about ANets will to add new skills?

Yeah, we believe they’re going to add new elites next.

Succinctly though, their approach to adding new skills is grudgingly and slow.

I know the new heals, thanks. But yeah… two new heals as you mentioned.

I thought the thing with the elites was a fake – or only the new elites have been wrong?

Maybe they just should revamp some traits for this topic a bit. I think there are many options for Mantras.

Nyel.1843:

I know the new heals, thanks. But yeah… two new heals as you mentioned.

I thought the thing with the elites was a fake – or only the new elites have been wrong?

Maybe they just should revamp some traits for this topic a bit. I think there are many options for Mantras.

Those particular elites were fake, but I don’t think the concept is wrong.

I almost never play without MoD, I love it so much. I agree though the long charge time makes it so I basically only recharge it between fights, otherwise it’s a big pain that I need to cover pretty well, but like someone said it is doable.

I think the main idea is that while they are a super long charge and annoying to ready, once they are ready their instant nature makes them really awesome. It seems like something that could be developed further and wasn’t.

An elite that instantly charged them would be awesome, and probably insanely OP. What would be very reasonable is to give us a talent that shortened the casting time on the charging. I’d much rather have that animation time reduced than the actual cd reduced. Imaging if you could charge a mantra in 1 sec instead of 2.75 or whatever it is now.

I think they could really reword the mantra traits. The one that is 30 in Dom is pretty awesome, but to go for 30 to get that? You’d only do that if you were really building around them, and if you’re doing that 30 in Dom is pretty rough. That talent could be moved down imo to a 20 pointer.

The 30 point in Dueling seems solid where it is. Same with the inspiration traits for mantra heals etc.

I think the traits lower down in Dueling, like increasing armor while casting and reduced recharge time are pretty weak. Especially the armor one, it’s really dumb. Letting someone wail on you for about 3 seconds isn’t going to be much better with added armor. Really it should just shorten the charge up time.

I’m surprised they didn’t go more “Mega-Man” style with Mantra charging. Instead of the current system, add charge for the time you hold down the key it’s linked to. I’d think that would at least be a bit more fluid in a fight.

It would be awesome to hear or see some videos from heavy Mantra using builds.

Anybody knows some of that?

Nyel.1843:

It would be awesome to hear or see some videos from heavy Mantra using builds.

Anybody knows some of that?

They’re situational, but very potent in certain situations. For example, 30/x/x/10/x with mantras of recovery and concentration plus mender’s purity is very helpful in zergs. Lots of spike healing, condi removal, and sun breaks allow you to run higherbdps gear than you might otherwise.

Very few “mantra builds” per se (outside of pve), but that doesnt mean you cant build them in in the right situations.

Mantra of pain is an ideal mantra if it is traited to heal. This is because it will heal the phantasms as well as the player. Something even more interesting is that mantra of pain can crit for significant damage. I often use it with signet of ether’s passive heal so their healing power can be easily combined, and even better, I can hit for over 2k crit with mantra of pain even while stunned. (The key to using it is casting mantras in stealth most of the time).

Nyel.1843:

Hey there,

I just wanted to ask what the hag ANet wants to cause with our Mantras.

Are there any viable builds out there with at least using two or more Mantras? Is anybody using them?

While I really like the idea of this spells the reality looks quite depressive for me.

So, can anybody help me and clarify the “use” or “sense” of them?

Thanks!

They’re actually a troll utility that the devs use as a distraction to say that they are invested in Mesmers and do really care. That way they can shuffle a few traits each patch, lower some durations, and act like they’ve done a fairs day work on Mesmers; meanwhile ignoring all the important issues, balancing, and bug fixes that need addressing urgently. Then they all have a Beavis and Butthead`esque laugh, utter the words “purple”, and “cheese”, then dust their hands, get up from their chairs, and call it a day.

If they gave us a mantra that granted stealth, and another that allowed you a 900 range blink, THEN you’d know they were serious about mantras (of course the mechanics will never change so people will continue to leave them). Otherwise they’re not on the mesmer page/meta.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Nyel.1843:

Hey there,

I just wanted to ask what the hag ANet wants to cause with our Mantras.

Are there any viable builds out there with at least using two or more Mantras? Is anybody using them?

While I really like the idea of this spells the reality looks quite depressive for me.

So, can anybody help me and clarify the “use” or “sense” of them?

Thanks!

They’re actually a troll utility that the devs use as a distraction to say that they are invested in Mesmers and do really care. That way they can shuffle a few traits each patch, lower some durations, and act like they’ve done a fairs day work on Mesmers; meanwhile ignoring all the important issues, balancing, and bug fixes that need addressing urgently. Then they all have a Beavis and Butthead`esque laugh, utter the words “purple”, and “cheese”, then dust their hands, get up from their chairs, and call it a day.

If they gave us a mantra that granted stealth, and another that allowed you a 900 range blink, THEN you’d know they were serious about mantras (of course the mechanics will never change so people will continue to leave them). Otherwise they’re not on the mesmer page/meta.

lol. yeah i gotta agree with u. when they buffed the mantras, i was kinda feeling like they didnt really think this one through very well. i mean we did ask for aoe and anet took some of the most underused utilities and added a tiny aoe range to it but 360 is a joke and will require u to go close to a zerg/ group which is hard in wvw for example.
also the way mantras work is not very useful in a duel for example. i mean having 1 or 2 on your toolbar is not bad i guess, but running a full mantra build is so stressful and also not ideal as mes does need something to get distance from the target.

i mean the nerfed the kitten out of glam and after that…nothing. no real new options for us. yes there is pu, but still its not what fixes the problems mesmers have. im honestly expecting the balance patch being something like this:

mantras: channeling time decreased by 0.25 seconds, cd increased by 5 seconds
fixed: a few minor bugs
nerfed clone death builds
mimic absorbs now 5 projectiles and echo will release projectiles and dmg foes around u,range 360, has now a 35 second cooldown

…….

selan.8354:

mantras: channeling time decreased by 0.25 seconds, cd increased by 5 seconds

.25s will do very little.

The entire mechanic of mantras doesnt work in practice. You just cant manage it at 2+ mantras. It need be changed.

Personally I prefer the idea of automatic build up. And it doesnt hurt if the 3 mantra trait is dropped a tier.

Sort of like a signet, which builds charges after X seconds. For example, the healing mantra has 5s between each charge builds up. When you push the button, it will consume all the charges and start to stack again.

But I dont know. I just know that the channeling is annoying as kitten, its just not possible to enjoy yourself in battle while staring at your skill bar all the time trying to work out when to charge what. With the short cooldowns mantras has, you have to cycle them 90% of the time. Hell in 1 minute, you’re spending like 30-45 seconds just channeling. Is that supposed to be fun? And then you had some downtime as well.

So, the main problem seems to be the “mechanics” behind them not the Mantras itself.

Right now I am missing two Mantras and maybe some Trait-adjustments, then it would be great.

I think we need…

… a Mantra, that causes Conditions, that deal damage. As I mentioned above. Burning, Poison, Confusion, Torment, Bleeding. I prefer Torment, Confusion & Poison. ( 3 of them, heck 2 of them would be okay – but for sure Torment ).

… an Elite-Mantra or something like that, that charges our Mantras INSTANT and has now 3 minute CD. 90 seconds CD would be quite high but not overpowered. But we urgently need something like this.

Maybe some Traits:

• If your Mantra misses the target, the charge is not consumed
• Maybe alter the GM to 4 instead of 3 charges ( and adjust the heal Mantra if it would be too powerful )
• Reduces induction time by 33%

With something like that, Mantra Builds could be competitive and great – I think, I hope.

Nyel.1843:

So, the main problem seems to be the “mechanics” behind them not the Mantras itself.

Right now I am missing two Mantras and maybe some Trait-adjustments, then it would be great.

I think we need…

… a Mantra, that causes Conditions, that deal damage. As I mentioned above. Burning, Poison, Confusion, Torment, Bleeding. I prefer Torment, Confusion & Poison. ( 3 of them, heck 2 of them would be okay – but for sure Torment ).

… an Elite-Mantra or something like that, that charges our Mantras INSTANT and has now 3 minute CD. 90 seconds CD would be quite high but not overpowered. But we urgently need something like this.

Maybe some Traits:

• If your Mantra misses the target, the charge is not consumed
• Maybe alter the GM to 4 instead of 3 charges ( and adjust the heal Mantra if it would be too powerful )
• Reduces induction time by 33%

With something like that, Mantra Builds could be competitive and great – I think, I hope.

Great suggestions, but the number one change is that channeling them has to go. Rain Man is the only person capable of handling a full toolbar of mantras. It’s just not cricket being expected to wrap your mind around the function of mantras while a glass cannon thief is spamming 2 on his dagger to ultimate effect. Where the kitten is the sense in that? Who throws a shoe, honestly?

Two Austin Powers quotes in one post ftw!

You are right. I am using 3 Mantras right now and it’s … an overload of work. Use them, recharge them AND use 1-5 with your weapons and weapon change is incredibly difficult to manage.

I am trying “Halting Strikes” because of the really decent damage you do with an interrupt – but hell it is quite impossible to manage your weapon attacks, the Mantras and to see clearly when you have to interrupt.

I hope, ANet is doing something with the Mantras, I really like them. Just give me one of my suggested ones and I will be happy…

The problem is, the channeling isn’t bad. It’s just too long. To heal while you charge them and the have toughness is a good thing. But maybe just 1,5 seconds and not 2 3/4. There is no good balance between charges – CD – channeling. They just have to adjust it.

I like mantras, but i think they could be changed in some aspects. The cast time is so long, i know that all skills are instant, but still they could reduce to 1.75s.

Another idea would be make the cd start in background when you use the first Power. Steal works that way, you can steal from somone, and if you use the stolen skill 30s after, need to wait only 5s to steal again.

Dawdler.8521:

selan.8354:

mantras: channeling time decreased by 0.25 seconds, cd increased by 5 seconds

.25s will do very little.

The entire mechanic of mantras doesnt work in practice. You just cant manage it at 2+ mantras. It need be changed.

Personally I prefer the idea of automatic build up. And it doesnt hurt if the 3 mantra trait is dropped a tier.

Sort of like a signet, which builds charges after X seconds. For example, the healing mantra has 5s between each charge builds up. When you push the button, it will consume all the charges and start to stack again.

But I dont know. I just know that the channeling is annoying as kitten, its just not possible to enjoy yourself in battle while staring at your skill bar all the time trying to work out when to charge what. With the short cooldowns mantras has, you have to cycle them 90% of the time. Hell in 1 minute, you’re spending like 30-45 seconds just channeling. Is that supposed to be fun? And then you had some downtime as well.

erm i was being sarcastic. i agree with u that the way mantras are designed is really bad. im having a hard time to make them work in a battle….they need to makem automatically recharge or simply change the entire utility plus traits. who wants to spend 90% of a fight kiting so u can channel your attacks? no other class has to go through something like this. and also we have a crazy cc meta. u dont have time to rechannel…thieves will perma interrupt that channel…

@selan

My thoughts exactly, you need something to push through the channeling, stealth, invuln, or stability. Which means you gotta trade 1 slot for that something.

I hate that ugh feeling when my MoD needs to be channeled again

I think mantras should be the opposite of what they are now. They should give us a short-CD ability, but a specific effect will “interrupt” them, giving them a lengthy CD.

Example:

Mantra of Distraction
Continuously recite a Mantra granting you the power to easily disrupt enemies’ thoughts. If interrupted yourself, you lose your focus and suffer a backlash.
Cooldown (if interrupted while using a skill): 75 seconds
Backlash: You are dazed for 2 seconds.
Effect: Grants access to “Power Lock”.

Power Lock
Daze your target.
Range: 1200
Daze: 1 second
Cooldown: 8 seconds

So in effect, this gives you a daze on a 8s CD. But, should you yourself get interrupted, you are also dazed and you suffer a lenghty CD.

Numbers are all pretty much picked randomly, 0 thought given to actual number-balance. Anyhow the point is, all Mantras could work like this.

Another one:

Mantra of Healing
Continously recite a Mantra granting you the ability to rapidly heal yourself. If your health drops low enough, you suffer feedback damage and this ability interrupts for a while.
Cooldown (if health drops below 25%): 60 seconds.
Backlash: You lose 15% health.
Effect: Grants access to Power Return.

Power Return
Heal yourself.
Healing: As now.
Cooldown: 8 seconds.