Guild Wars 2

Do any of you use mantras?
I’ve been messing around with them, I decided to make a build based on the healing you get with a trait.
Not even that made them viable.

Lets look at the mantras we get right now.
Mantra of Recovery – 3s charge time for 2740×2 healing
10s CD, probably the best PvE heal, overlooked because of the charge time though.

Mantra of Pain – 3s charge for 324 × 2 damage
No CD, for the charge time, you could use your auto attack and deal more, the plus is you can attack while CC’d/ charging another attack.

Mantra of Resolve – 3s charge for 2 condition cleanse.
20 second CD, null field or arcane thievery has no cast time and clears all conditions, but 45s CD.

Mantra of Concentration – 3s charge for 2 CC breakers
25 second CD, Blink has 30 second CC for a blink skill that also breaks CC, no charge.

Mantra of Distraction – 3s charge for 2 dazes (1s)
30 second CD, Signet of domination stuns 2s on 45 CD

It seems that the mantras are the best bet, but they’re REALLY hurt by the charge time. You cannot use them effectively in PvP, anything that CCs you will stop the charge, and 3s is a lot.

I think the charge should be lowered to 1.5s, increase the CD if you need to.

I run a glass cannon GS/Sword/Sword spec. 4% extra damage with each mantra running, I healing, nuke, stability, condition remover. I sPvP mostly. Damage potential is pretty nice, iswordsman can crit for 4-5k by himself and 4.5-7k Frenzies from me. That’s not even counting GS skills.

I think they are fine and do the job they are meant to do. I’ve been able to clear conditions out the wazoo within seconds thanks to the mantra which has one me some fights.

I blow up but it has less to do with the mantras and more to do with me being well, glass cannon heh.

Did you take into account the Grandmaster trait “Harmonious Mantras” which allows mantras to be cast 3 times instead of 2?

What is your opinion on the mantras with this trait included?

Ilonaya.3154:

Did you take into account the Grandmaster trait “Harmonious Mantras” which allows mantras to be cast 3 times instead of 2?

What is your opinion on the mantras with this trait included?

Makes them worthwhile.

Shouldn’t need a grandmaster trait for them to be worthwhile though.

I use that trait as well, 3 back to back 2 condition removers is great verses condition builds.

3 heals back to back can save you many times.

3 short stabilities are good, you can pop this without interrupting stomp as well, I always use it to stomp.

The only pain is after dieing/starting a new match it takes forever to put all 4 back on lol.

The channel time of Mantras is 4s, not 3s. If it were 3s (and it used to be in the Beta) I would be reasonably happy with it.

Oh god there was me thinking 3s is too much.
Yeah, that’s ridiculous.

Comments on Mantras as-is:

1. They are currently very viable as isolated utilities. E.g. “my build needs some condition removal, I will use MoResolve”. Or, “I want more spike damage, I will use MoPain”, etc. These are actually good choices — just have to remember to charge them between fights, and stop yourself from pressing the button again during fights after you’ve burned them (unless you intend to charge them, ofc). Or, even better: “I want to lock this sumkitten down with Distraction Diversion Distraction SignetofStun Sword4 LOL CHAIN CC GG”.

2. Stability one is rather weak, in general. Sodamnshort. I think it needs another second or two duration.

3. The only build where you want to pack “lots of Mantras” is the 30 Dueling max DPS build. Due to the raw # of Mantras you pack (presumably 3-4), 30 Dom becomes very potent, although 20 Illusion for Elasticity on GS is also effective, but has less utility.

4. Mantras are viable with synergies in other areas. Specifically Restorative Mantras with the heal Mantra or Mantra of Pain.

The key here is to not try to take “all the Mantra traits” or “all the Mantras” unless you really really intend to.

Edit: And 4s is definitely too long, heh.

Edit2: I guess the real problem is that other utilities like Blink, Decoy, or Feedback are SO GOOD, that it becomes hard to justify 3+ Mantras in many cases. And without that many Mantras backing them, the “biggest” traits like HM and EM become “meh”.

My only real problem with mantras is having to recharge them every time I zone. This is very annoying when doing story instances and/or being popped into a zone and then out of the overflow, etc.

edit

You can learn a lot about this class by just reading every post by EasymodeX.

Mantras are garbage for the sole reason that it’s just not viable to be channeling them in combat. Yes, you can cast your mantras while channeling the others, but if you do a mantra cycle you aren’t using your weapons, and they take up all your utility.

I’ve used 4M when soloing but it’s honestly just idiotic for dungeons.

The other issue is that the actual cooldowns on some of the Mantras feel really long. I just don’t like the idea of out of combat preparation skills at all.

Mesmer kit is all based on counter play. Mantras are the ultimate prep skill which seems like the kind of cheese a theif would pack instead.

I think the part where the charges can be expended while CC’d or doing other things, instantly and with no projectile / delay, is the ‘counter’ part =P.

That`s really the only plus I see of mantras right now.
If there was a blink mantra I`d use it right away.

Well, from a raw effect / cooldown perspective, Mantras are better than many abilities. For example you could compare the cooldown of Signet of Domination to Mantra of Distraction, or the cooldown of Ether Feast to Mantra of Recovery.

In all cases, the Mantra power per cooldown is superior to similar abilities. The catch is, of course, the charge time.

Do I use mantras? Nope.
I think the mistake made with mantras is having them do the same things other abilities do but with a charge time and effect cut in half. Make mantras that do other things, like a mantra that makes your next attack crit 100%.

Mantras are basically like Signets, but a bit worse. Unlike Signets, you have to charge your mantra (3 seconds) before you can use it, and mantras don’t give cool passive bonuses unless you specifically spec for that.

I think if they charged passively it would be much better, like for cooldowns. Like you have 2 uses, then its off limits for 10 seconds.

I stay clear of having mantras for fear of fat fingering or just plain not being able to look and instead of getting an instant effect i get stuck with channeling something for 4 seconds that helps me exactly zero. This is worse than moa birding yourself since you cant do any attack, except duration is half.

Some of these mantras aren’t very well understood (from a pvp perspective).

Mantra of Concentration is ideal for stun breaks and, most importantly, guaranteed stomps with a stab that can be activated mid stomp. If you have the timing right, there’s nothing anyone can do to stop you short of a downed stealth/port.

Mantra of Distraction should be used as an interrupt, not as a daze. This skill feels very gw1, for any of you who played a mesmer there. The best use is probably to prevent someone from healing. Hit them with this, and their heal is interrupted and locked out for 3-4s (iirc), and if you have another charge you can rupt it again. If you’re good at animation recognition, you can interrupt other key skills. It can also stop stompers.

I like to occassionally run a team support build that requires me to strip boons, interrupt key skills, and stab stomp. The above mantras are great for this type of setup.

Mantra of Concentration is ideal for stun breaks and, most importantly, guaranteed stomps with a stab that can be activated mid stomp. If you have the timing right, there’s nothing anyone can do to stop you short of a downed stealth/port.

Totally agree, except I use Illusory Persona Distortion for that!

Hehehe.

yeah the mantras are currently pointless. I messed around with them and hated the gameplay and how they just flat out sucked. The cast times are atrocious on most of them.

I know I am still hoping they would include a Signet like passive ability on Mantras, that stacks with how many charges are remaining. Hopefully something that would improve Illusions in some form. Go a step further, and make the passive ability stack with each charge of the Mantra.

That, or lower the cast time for Mantras.

the real problem with mantras is that the effects are weak in contrast to the cost to attain them, the fact that you need a grandmaster major trait to make the effect compete with other utility skills is unacceptable, that’s not even counting the long preparation time.

when someone specs for mantras, it is assumed that at least 3 mantras will be used (because you need at least 2 major traits to make them good, so it would be a waste to use 1 or 2 mantras only), that’s 9 second of preparation time just to use them in one fight, while other skills are “fire and forget”

mantra of recovery is a joke, without grandmaster major trait it’s the worst heal ever.

mantra of pain is quite ok for spike damage, but if the fight lasts longer you’ll find yourself with a dud utility skill.

mantra of resolve is pretty ok, since the mesmer lacks any real self condition removal without traits, but there’s still better options for utility, null field lasts 6 seconds and is AOE, better imo.

mantra of concentration is bad, if stability was 4 second it would be better, but the fact that blink removes CC AND puts you out of harms way at the same time, i consider blink a better option.

Mantra of distraction is quite unique, but not very good considering i can get better effects with another untraited utility skill.

Well, I see no problem with most Mantras. They all have their uses (not sure with stability mantra).
I have traited 20 points in healing, so I remove conditions when I heal and heal AoE when I cast Mantras. Suddenly my Healing Mantra turns into a thrice healer (only twice when charged) and also an instant condition remover. It heals a bit less than the default heal (if precharged), but more with triple heal and has only 10s CD instead of 30. Then I can resolve it instantly (if precharged) and also instantly remove a single condition.
The 4s cast is a pain, but still better than waiting 20 more seconds for a heal.

I’d agree that mantras need a rework. None of the effects are really worth 4 seconds of cast time in battle, so in 95% of cases you’ll only have two charges in a single fight, assuming you remembered to recharge the mantra. Remembering to recharge your mantras is kind of a pain, it feels like busy work, like in other MMO’s having to wait for your mana to recharge.

Basically, right now, Mantras are really good in a short fight, but the longer the fight is, the better off you are with any other skill.

I’d rather if mantras didn’t need to be charged but had a passive cooldown. The cooldown would be a little long for an effect of their power level, but you’d be able to stack up to two charges. So you’d start off each battle with two charges, like it is now, but if the battle goes on long you might get a few more uses out of it. This way mantras are still better in a short fight, but they have a use in a longer fight.