Guild Wars 2

Hi guys,

So the elite spell Mass Invisibility is pretty bad in my opinion.
A 5sec AoE stealth, with 1sec cast-time and a cooldown of 90sec… Pretty bad.

Just as a comparison, Thief has Shadow Refuge which is a 13sec AoE stealth, 1/4 sec cast-time, and only a 60second cooldown. And, this is not an elite spell.

Obviously Mass Invisibility needs a buff. To what extent though? What do you guys think would be an appropriate buff?

Maybe 10sec stealth + 10sec swiftness to all nearby allies? And a 60sec cooldown. That would make it a LITTLE better than Shadow Refuge, which is fair, seeing as Mass Invisi is an elite and all.

Thoughts?

I would prefer the skill to have a shorter casttime.
Maybe compensated with a smaller aoe range.
Ive ‘buffed’ my mass invisibility by using runes of lyssa.
I used to almost never use the skill cause it was such a long casttime for only 5s of invis.
with lyssa you purge all conditions and get all boons for 5sec, this makes mass invis pretty powerfull and i now pop it a lot in battle, saved my skin plenty of times.

I’d like to see Mass Invisibility have a 45s CD and Veil have a 60s CD. As it is their CDs are both too long for their meager effects.

comparing it to shadow refuge is bad, since it requires you to stay in the circle to get the stealth, and lose it if you leave. its countered extremely easily with knockbacks and aoe in the circle.

Wouldnt be so bad if it affected more than yourself and 4 others, then you could organize invisible surprise raid attacks in WvW and stuff…

ya know.. kinda like zergs get to already with the culling issues…

wads.5730:

comparing it to shadow refuge is bad, since it requires you to stay in the circle to get the stealth, and lose it if you leave. its countered extremely easily with knockbacks and aoe in the circle.

Regardless, I’d much rather have Shadow Refuge than say Veil on my bar.

wads.5730:

comparing it to shadow refuge is bad, since it requires you to stay in the circle to get the stealth, and lose it if you leave.

Actually, you are wrong. Shadow Refuge lasts for 3sec. If you leave during this 3sec, then stealth breaks. However if you stay in for 3sec, then you gain an additional 13sec of stealth AFTER Shadow Refuge ends.

I know we shouldn’t compare skills against other skills of different classes, but in my view Mass Invisibility is so ridiculously underpowered (ESPECIALLY for an Elite), that comparing it to utility skills of another class was my way of indicating the stark comparisons.

Nymph Undine.1704:

I know we shouldn’t compare skills against other skills of different classes, but in my view Mass Invisibility is so ridiculously underpowered (ESPECIALLY for an Elite), that comparing it to utility skills of another class was my way of indicating the stark comparisons.

To be fair, mass invis doesn’t give a giant “HEY DIRECT ALL YOUR AOE’S TO RIGHT HERE” sign above your head when it’s used. But I totally agree that it’s pretty underwhelming- the only time I can ever use it and get any semblance of an actual effect out of it is when I need to run away from a fight… and even with Prismatic Understanding, that’s all it’s really good for.

I can’t hide in plain sight with it because it has a long casting time and short duration, I can’t move a group into position because of short duration, and it just barely helps me run away because memsers aren’t allowed to be actively fighting. Decoy, and even Veil (which is an awful, awful skill) are preferable to it, in combat of any size. Decoy will generate a clone to fuel my invuln shatter, and Veil can be ran through twice to get a far longer stealth duration.

It’s a pity really, with Moa Morph nerfed and Mass Invis just not being helpful for any real purpose, I feel really pigeonholed into Time Warp :\

I agree with wads. Shadow refugee, once understood how it works, can be countered easily.

But I also agree that Mass Invisibility is too weak. It can be useful in the current state (I use it offensively when I for example wanna kill a downed character within the enemy lines; or it can be used defensively to slipp by enemy forces, to get out of hopeless sitautions), but the cast time makes it vulnerable to interrupts and stuff. But it’s not the cooldown. If the casttime would be reduced to like 1/4 second, it would already become super strong and I would use it even more… Reducing the cooldown would make it OP, especially in combination with runes like superior rune of Lyssa.

Lol, i was just about to post here about Mass Invisibility, after some testing yesterday with some people.

It says ‘’You and ALL Allies gain stealth—’’….yeah yeah, half of the people near me still didnt get stealthed (inside the radius of course), and it seems to choose that randomly..

I dont get why it says ALL Allies, if it doesnt actually stealth All, just Some

AoEs generally only affect 5 allies. I get the feeling MI actually affects more (although I may be mistaken), but that’s how it is.

In this sense Veil is superior because there is no limit to how many allies could be stealthed, although people rarely know they have to run through the Veil.

The only reason I use MI more than Veil is because Veil takes up an important Utility slot.

After giving things a bit more thought, and looking at all the mesmer elites..

Both Timewarp and MI could benefit greatly from an AoE cap removal or increase, or a secondary negative effect for foes within range such as a knock down, stun, cripple, knock back, or chilled, etc..

As is, 5 seconds of invisibility is a very small frame and not enough to sneak out of a fight or into one effectively, it is also easily broken by any sort of skill use often meaning allies will remove the effect immediately after its been applied. something needs tweaking here because this feels more like what veil should have been and it just got thrown into the elite slot when nothing else could be thought up and veil got kittened to make it less preferable (in theory).

Personally i find the Torch invis bombing to be far more effective 3s Invis with blind burst to start and burning upon end with less than half the CD of MI or Veil.

MI and Veil have long CDs because they are group stealths. The problem is, as you stated, allies often break stealth immediately, making it of limited use in combat.

Nymph Undine.1704:

Maybe 10sec stealth + 10sec swiftness to all nearby allies? And a 60sec cooldown.

Are you serious or trolling? That would be so incredible broken isnt not even funny.

Mass stealth has one main advantage over Shadow Refuge: you can use it on the move with a group that is spread out giving you huge tactical advantages.

Personally i always run with mass stealth on my mesmer and think its fine.

10 sec of stealth/switfness would be sicknasty by itself. Needless to say, if such a thing ever happened, bet yer behind MI would then have like a 300 sec cd, at the very least.

Mind, I don’t necessarily disagree with the OP’s argument – it does seem a bit screwball that an elite stealth option is crushed (for # of allies cloaked) by one of our utility stealths. The only issue with just increasing the # stealthed by MI is simple: it’d then become the next Portal for every Mesmer-hating lackwit to cry about. Although, I’m sure someone’s whinging as is, in regards to Temporal Curtain/Veil combos.

As for usage – I alternate MI or TW, depending on what I need to deal with.

The only use I have found for Mass Invisibility for a team benefit, is to pop it right before going up the back stairs on forest of nifhel after both SPVP teams zerged chieftain and svanir, and are heading up the back way to the keep. It lets your group drop onto the keep all stealthed, and you can get a really nice surprise attack in. Same with Capricorn, if your beach team or dock team goes through the boat after capping home, you can pop it inside of the boat and swim to shore without being seen (Spec Ops style )

60sec recharge/10sec swiftness/10sec stealth/0.5sec casting time would be hawt.

It could use something special for sure. Actually affecting every friendly in the radius, a cast speed reduction, or a duration increase would all be nice. I’d kinda like it to create 3 clones, but that’s me. It is close to where it needs to be though. Veil needs a cd decrease though, 90s cd is terrible… i know it can work on infinite targets,but honestly it’s clunky and buggy as it is.

My preference is for Mass Invisibility to have a shorter CD rather than longer duration or whatever. The main power of stealth is target dropping, duration past 3s is just icing. More frequent use = more target dropping = good. Same goes for Veil.

Embolism.8106:

My preference is for Mass Invisibility to have a shorter CD rather than longer duration or whatever. The main power of stealth is target dropping, duration past 3s is just icing. More frequent use = more target dropping = good. Same goes for Veil.

You’re right, I just prefer longer duration because in wvw I use it on tough portal placement.

so you want to BUFF one of the most op’d charactrers in the game. ya that sounds promising

Zero Requiem.5908:

so you want to BUFF one of the most op’d charactrers in the game. ya that sounds promising

Mesmers are above average powerful because they are versitile, but certainly not OP. The only reason people say they are OP is because (a) they play a class that is perhaps a bit UP and want the stronger classes brought to their level (b) the illusion mechanic, or © they lose to them/don’t know how to counter them.

(a) There is no reason that our skills that are lacking can’t be buffed to allow for more build diversity. Just because another class needs buffs doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be allowed to have any.

(b) The illusion mechanic is just a different playstyle. It is strong against players who are not familiar with it and the inherent weaknesses/tells it comes with. But once you figure out certain facts about it (phantasms are so weak they might as well be wet paper cannons, you should dodge INTO a shatter, not away from, and that clones do not move and attack slower), it easily countered to the point that it is definitely not OP. Heck, you get a chance to nullify an entire phantasm if you los, block, dodge, or blind the mesmer. And if you miss, you get more tries each time the phantasm attacks/is shattered. We are the only class that allows our opponents multiple chances to completely avoid all damage from our non-auto attacks. How is that OP?

© Playing a mesmer involves a much more active playstyle due the to need to be constantly kiting and casting in order to have a semblance of decent dps. You can’t just faceroll as a mesmer, so you shouldn’t expect to be able to faceroll and beat one. Analyze your play, try playing as a mesmer to see how others counter it, whatever you need to do in order to improve.

If group A and group B ( lets say 3 or 4 people) are about to engage, a mesmer in group A can cast mass invis and grant group A a massive alpha strike on one called target. That target will likely go down rapidly, giving group A numbers and a greater likelihood of success.

For that reason I doubt there will be a buff to the power directly. Its not Anet’s fault if people aren’t doing this.

Just a though: keep the cooldown and duration (maybe shorten the cast time) and add 30sec of swiftness.

…Warrior kind of spoiled me. I can have perma swiftness with some extra boon duration thanks to Signet of Rage elite.

With time warp the way it is why would you EVER use mass invis? Even if the duration was 3 minutes for the stealth.

This is the last thing I thought I’d see.

Ostricheggs.3742:

With time warp the way it is why would you EVER use mass invis? Even if the duration was 3 minutes for the stealth.

This is the last thing I thought I’d see.

I think the problem is not whether you use or don’t use it. It’s just that that slot costs 30 sp and is an “elite”. The skill should be more resourceful.

Ostricheggs.3742:

With time warp the way it is why would you EVER use mass invis? Even if the duration was 3 minutes for the stealth.

This is the last thing I thought I’d see.

I much prefer MI over TW simply because it has a much shorter CD. I prefer to be able to use my skills often over a powerful skill I can only use rarely.

Plus I like stealth builds. Anyways, halve its CD to 45s and I’d say it’s worthy of an Elite slot.

Embolism.8106:

Ostricheggs.3742:

With time warp the way it is why would you EVER use mass invis? Even if the duration was 3 minutes for the stealth.

This is the last thing I thought I’d see.

I much prefer MI over TW simply because it has a much shorter CD. I prefer to be able to use my skills often over a powerful skill I can only use rarely.

Plus I like stealth builds. Anyways, halve its CD to 45s and I’d say it’s worthy of an Elite slot.

From the perspective of using skills more often, I feel the same way except for stealth. While we don’t gain anywhere near the utility that a thief gains from entering stealth, I’d still like less, but more powerful usage of it across the board in this game. I think everything could remain as it is (cooldown, cast time, etc) and they could just add something fun to it … like clones spawn for everyone stealthed, or couple seconds of distortion for everyone, etc.

The thing is, the main power of stealth (especially for the Mesmer) is target dropping. A longer/more powerful stealth doesn’t contribute to that, more frequent stealth does. Unless you’re saying that’s the Thief’s domain and the Mesmer shouldn’t have more frequent stealth, but even with 45s CD MI (and hopefully 60s CD Veil) the Mesmer still couldn’t stealth half as frequently as the Thief could.

Embolism.8106:

The thing is, the main power of stealth (especially for the Mesmer) is target dropping. A longer/more powerful stealth doesn’t contribute to that, more frequent stealth does. Unless you’re saying that’s the Thief’s domain and the Mesmer shouldn’t have more frequent stealth, but even with 45s CD MI (and hopefully 60s CD Veil) the Mesmer still couldn’t stealth half as frequently as the Thief could.

Right, the Thief does benefit much more, but for the Mesmer dropping target is a very strong tool when used at the right time. I believe that “right time” should be a real choice opposed to being “all the time.”

In my opinion the cast time is way to long, thats the only thing I think should be changed about this skill, its far to easy to have interrupted.

I think Mass Invisibility is okay, just the cast time is too long.

In WvW I use it to escape from a zerg (useful in combination with evade clones) or simply to drop target in regular combat. Sometimes I use it for stealth stomping.

My mesmer is a tanky condition build and I solo a lot in WvW. Timewarp is not very useful for me, it’s more a group ability. I defeat enemies by outlasting them, not by bursting them down. Even with Time Warp I couldn’t burst them down, but Mass Invis allows me to escape when there is too many of them.

That’s why I use MI instead of TW.

For Mass Invis, I would make the following changes:

1a. Increase the duration by 2s, or
1b. Add Swiftness for the duration and remove

-and-

2. Decrease the cast time to 0.5s.

-OR-

1. Increase the player cap to 20.

Done.

I think it’s mostly good where it is. I prefer the first set of changes. WvW does not need more mass stealth mechanics, and where you do need them you have Veil or the Thief house. Thief house is constrained and Veil requires coordination. Good.

MI is easy to use, hence I feel it should not be usable for large-scale mass stealth. Even if it has the word “mass” in it. I think it should be cleaner and more effective in small scale.