Guild Wars 2

Greetings fellow Mesmers,

Since there is no actual competion in the scene atm(tournament system randoms you against super newbs and you can’t organize tournaments with decent opponents) I decided to turn my spotlights to the actual theorycrafting of the game.

I tried to scan the internet for decent spreadsheets, but with no success.

I sat down, and had a look at Power, Precision and Critical Damage.I calculated damage on each abillity based on power/weapon power and the equations behind them.

The java app contains these three attributes(so far).

The calculations that can be made in the app, is

Skilldamage based on power
Which is simply, what a skill will damage with a certain amount of power.

Average skill damage with crit
This is Skilldamage based on power, but with precision and critical damage calculated as well.

Some people will protest, say that the game is about utillity, but the question you should ask yourself, isn’t it still important to know that you are doing your maximum damage when you decide to attack?

Toughness and defense is obviously not counted, so this will not be your exact output on the enemy, but this will still be a great tool to balance your critical damage with your criticalchance and power.

Now I would like you guys to maybe test it out, find bugs/errors, and make suggestion for what I should add to the app(I have planned to have a look on traits, phantasms, sigils/runes, healing) but if you have something in mind that I think would make great into the app, I am really glad to add it, for my own satisfaction and for yours.

If you know where to find other values to work with, like info on how toughness/defense works it’d be much apprechiated.

App is made for level 80s.
No values will be correct if you are not level 80.

Known Bugs:
-You can’t enter precision/power value below 916, since that is the base value for level 80s, and might give a negative value
-Some skills might not be calculated or rounded up correctly, 1-5 points may differ in some cases, and maybe 1-2 skills will give a value that differs 10-20 on high power due to lack of great calculations
-My code is lacking restraints on writing only numbers in the boxes, letters will bug it out

Good criticism:
Please add dps tool, so we can see the damage per second if you use it constantly when off cooldown
Bad criticism:
“This sucks, I could write this program in one hour.” (I put some time into calculations, and even more in code, since I am a horrible programmer.)

This project is mainly to give me satisfaction, in the way of beeing/becoming a great mesmer, and develop my java-oo-skills.

http://www.speedyshare.com/QMxt5/MasterMesmer.jar

For you who suspect virus, feel free to scan, and for people which tests it, approve of virusfree in thread.

Feel free to ask me questions, if something is unclear(which a lot may be)

Regards Alex/Niden M

edit:had to take down download link since I uploaded an old version -.-’
edit2:added the link

I can’t try it out atm but awesome initiative! Looking forward to checking it out

People dont dare to download it? Or people just think its crap? or whats the deal with the zero response?

People think its too much text to read? :]

A nice little tool, I’ve been loonking forward to when the theorycrafting/spreadsheet thing starts to kick in in GW2. So here are my thoughts.

First thing i noticed, I cant find the iWarlock. Are there more missing spells?

The next step would be adding conditions that inflict damage and merge them with skills able to apply that kind of condition. Of course then you’ll need to add the condition damage stat as well.

Adding a way to calculate Dps over a given time would also be really cool.

I did not add the iWarlock since I assumed it did zero damage as well it would come into the tool when Im adding what you are talking about, condition.

But first I should focus on getting traits in? I have considered adding “Highest crit with the weapon” as well as DPS if you use the abillity constantly when cooldown is off, but that’d go against part of the gameplay in PvP?

What things do you think concerning conditions should be added?

-Every condition and what damage it does
-How much conditions they actually put out(like random when staff)

Sorry i don’t think I can help a lot with PvP questions since I always focus on PvE in MMOs. That said GW2s PvE comes a lot closer to PvP than WoWs for an example.
So a tool that gives you an idea of how much damage a spell could be doing over given time, even if not 100% accurate, would really help in planing your build. You just need to mix the information with your own battle experience.

On conditions, I think you need to model the damage of the conditions seperatly and then add it to the damage of the spell that applys them. For spells that apply “random” conditions, say Winds of Chaos, just add the condition damage divided by their chance of applying that condition.

Winds of Chaos has a 1 in 3 chance to apply either Burning, Bleeding or Vulnerability.
So for a formula: WoC damage + 1/3 Burning damage + 1/3 Bleeding damage.
Not really accurate on short fights but should do the trick on mid and long scale.
Confusion might get a little tricky though.

Traits are also very important. And if I recall correctly there aren’t any that would be hard to implement, except for the triple bounce of WoC maybe.

I think people are afraid to download it. I just noticed your iwarlock comment and I have to disagree strongly. With 5 or more conditions on a target it does the highest one-hit damage a mesmer can deal. I remember in Twilight Arbor while I was teamed up with an Elementalist and a Necromancer, the elementalist bragged that her meteor storm, even though she could hardly ever get it to hit, was doing 2k damage when it did. And that it was her hardest hitting move at the moment. I quickly noticed that the iwarlock was doing the same amount, on a more reliable basis. Probably because the necromancer on our team was keeping 5 or more conditions on the target at all times with ease.

Well, ofcourse iWarlock can do damage, but since the app doesn’t count with different conditions yet, there is no point in having it. If(when) I add conditions it will be another difference.

Well it saddens me to hear, but I do ask for people that HAS download to post its legit, I mean I wont “buy” more accounts to upvote my own app.

@tbesniper
I will have a look into it! Thanks for oppinion

Ooooh, I see. I apologize then. Good luck. I will certainly keep a link to this page when I get back onto the computer with GW2 then to see if I can help.

First, I think a lot more people would download this if you made the source available. People can decompile java files anyway, and it’s not like you’re doing any ground breaking computer science here. It would also help if you cited your sources for the data/formulas you used.

Second, if all you’re concerned about is maximizing direct damage, just stack power. The pay-offs for power are way better than precision, unless you have some kind of “on crit” effects like an Earth Sigil or Sharper Images.

Third, some of the tool tips are inaccurate to start with so the results of this tool are off as a result. Take the tool tips with a grain of salt and test it out on the target dummies in the mists.

iWarlock does a lot of damage even with 0 conditions.

As stated, if you’re basing pretty much anything off the in-game tooltips, start over, lol.

No offense, but the iWarlock discussion kind of indicates to me you probably don’t play a Mesmer.

EasymodeX
Hmm, I guess you dont understand the perpose of it, there is NO instrument currently to see the total damage of a phantasm, thats the huge problem here. To be fair and square, the facts about the phantasms doesn’t help you guys at all, I just decide to bring it on the regular duelist + berserker since they are the most common onces(and hopefully you can get an idea how the powerdevelopment will effect them).

The ingame tooltip will ONLY help out with me counting the actual power-importance.

No offense, but did you really read my post? This is only for the theory of balancing precision/power/critical damage atm. It’s not ever going to be possible to count every single thing since the game is so much more than just pure output

Nice try to rally thought, shows how much you actually care about theorycrafting. You should go play some more tournament, it will sure give your huge competitive side stimulation.
(And if you are going to suggest trainingdummy, I’d suggest you to do me a service and go down to the trainingdummys, repeat iWarlock, 1000 times (to get the statistics as correct as possible) and then add 200-300 power, to do everything again, to see the powerdevelopment, it’s easy, use the combat log, and note down in word document.)

SuburbanLion, ofcourse you should take the tooltip with a huge portion of salt, and I don’t encurage staring blind at number. You should take the whole game with a grain of salt, there is no info about defense, toughness, etc. But it’s up to you as a player to decide, is those 50 toughness worth more than those 50 power?

“Second, if all you’re concerned about is maximizing direct damage, just stack power. The pay-offs for power are way better than precision, unless you have some kind of “on crit” effects like an Earth Sigil or Sharper Images.”

This is an invalid statement, it’s all about what you can achieve with your critical damage(which is not influenced by precision). In some scenarios it can be better to stack criticaldamage(especially since CD is easy to get hold of compared to power later in on in the powerstacking) + precision (damage wise) than just simply power. Keep in mind the duelist traits(critical chance + cd, compared to power + condition damage) + critical chance sigils(which are viable in my opinion later on when you have high CD).

And yes, I can post the code, it’s just that it’s messy and I am ashamed of it, nothing more nothing less really.

No offense, but did you really read my post? This is only for the theory of balancing precision/power/critical damage atm.

I calculated damage on each abillity based on power/weapon power and the equations behind them.

How did you calculate the damage on each ability when the tooltips are dubious across the board, and especially whacked for Phantasms, which are a significant fraction of Mesmer damage output?

Nevermind the other thread which highlights that the Mind Wrack tooltips are also inaccurate.

EasymodeX.4062:

No offense, but did you really read my post? This is only for the theory of balancing precision/power/critical damage atm.

I calculated damage on each abillity based on power/weapon power and the equations behind them.

How did you calculate the damage on each ability when the tooltips are dubious across the board, and especially whacked for Phantasms, which are a significant fraction of Mesmer damage output?

Nevermind the other thread which highlights that the Mind Wrack tooltips are also inaccurate.

Thanks for a more serious answer this time, you are totally correct with this, but I will still tell you as I wrote in my first post, you got to use your brain, a lot of tooltip is inaccurate, and if you are smart enough to realize that, fine, I don’t mind. I still decided to implement most of the abillities in the game. Because if they actually fix so abillities will damage as their tooltip says,(Confusion Images, f.y.i has the best powerdevelopment in the game if you trust the tooltip but in reality, it’s less dps than almost all other abillities(if you put aside the condition yet again)).

But you are correct, maybe should take them out of the list until they are fixed and do a recalculations then.

As stated, if you’re basing pretty much anything off the in-game tooltips, start over, lol.

You are still not catching it, aren’t you? Yes, Mind Wrack + Phantasms may be whack, as well as some other abillities, but it’s still about what precision,cd and power does to your damage, not about your actual output. To just throw the whole games tooltip in the dustbin is not an option, I mean, how can you be certain your items actually give you power and they are not bugged?

And I might ask you, what do you base it on? You should share your spreadsheets on every abillity, master of masters, or are you just guessing?

The problem with the pay-offs for Precision/Prowess is that you need a decent amount of Power (like 3500-4000) to start with. Then, as your crit damage/rate starts to go up, it makes Power even more attractive. You can easily verify this with a little calculus by taking the partial derivatives of the damage function.

Of course there’s going to be some Precision/Prowess on your gear, but there’s a difference between just going with that and actively seeking Precision/Prowess. The only time you’d prefer Precision to Power is if you have “on crit” effects as I said earlier. However, this is beyond the scope of your tool as it depends on variables like your attack rate and condition damage.

Alexander.5012:

but it’s still about what precision,cd and power does to your damage, not about your actual output.

So … this is basically: (weapon + power) * (1 + crit% * critdmgx)?

Because that’s kind of boring …

And I might ask you, what do you base it on? You should share your spreadsheets on every abillity, master of masters, or are you just guessing?

I play a Mesmer and pay general attention to the numbers that pop up.

From time to time I pay closer attention and observe that iWarlock’s tooltip of ~80 damage results in about 1500 on the heavy golem, which is similar to iSwordman’s tooltip of ~490, resulting in about 1600 damage on the heavy golem. Then I giggle and proceed to ignore tooltip damage ratings throughout the game.

EasymodeX

weapon = the weapon, which scales with power.
power = simply the pure raw damage you get with power, scales with power.

(weapon+power) +
(((((precision-916)/21) + 4)100)x(weapon + power)x((criticaldamage/100 +1))

iSwordsmans tooltip is fixed btw.

And paying “general attention to the numbers” will be less precise than some of the tooltip “facts” together with targetdummies and general attention.(which I have been saying all along, that this app needs compensation bound within the game.)

(If you think the calculation is wrong in any way, please feel free to help me out, that goes to anyone.)

SuburbanLion
I will give you a scenario its useful for:
(Keep in mind, I used blurred frenzy for this example, one of the most powerintensive abillities in the game, meaning: power really works well with the abillity, if you believe anything that the tooltip says that is)

1900 Power and 1800 Precision CD:20, you are indecisive if you should take duelist-traits or domination-traits. That gives 2601 Average damage with crit.(Blurred Frenzy)

With 100 extra power from domination-trait, you will end up with
2738 Average damage with.(Blurred frenzy)

But if you went for that 100 precision + 10% critical damage

You would end up with 2782 Average damage with crit. You got more bang for you buck, even with lower power than if you would have got going for domination-trait.

And ofcourse, 95% of the time you shouldn’t chose your traits after the pure stats you get from it and actually chose what is a good trait abillity. But if you sit in between two abillities, and both are equal crappy/good, then it might make it easier for you. This could apply for sigils/runes/amulets.(mostly not but in some scenarios)

By going off the trait line bonus and not the raw stats, you’re not making a valid comparison. That 10% critical damage is worth at least 100 Power in terms of itemization cost. If you want to make more accurate cost-benefit analysis, you should be comparing that 100 precision / 10% crit damage with 200 Power. That would put Blurred Frenzy at 2875 (by your own tool). Power wins.

Also, I’m pretty sure your damage is based the product of power and weapon damage rather than their sum.

I’m going with power x coefficient, and weapon damage is either flat or also x coefficient.

Well, it’s still a scenario that could happend right?

As well as 10% CD = 100 power, is not a correct comparison, I have a current stat around ~2k power on my mesmer and 60% critical damage, without weapon enchants, does that mean I could replace those 60% with 600 power? How would you make that build?

But I am totally with you that power is in whole picture, only compared to precision, far superior.

At lower levels you find lots of gear that only has a single stat on it, but at 80 you become limited to a handful of prefixes that determine the stats. So while you might not be able to directly convert your crit damage to power, we can still reverse engineer the stat weights from looking at the equipment.

There’s a nice equipment guide on GW2 Junkies that explains how this works:
http://www.guildwars2junkies.com/2012/08/23/guide-weapon-and-armor-stats-explained/

EasymodeX
final Skill BlurredFrenzy = new Skill (“Blurred Frenzy(x8)”, 1.57, 4.09 );

powerDamage
double powerAndWeaponCalc(double power){
double damageOutput;

if (this.weaponmultiplier <=0){
damageOutput = (power / this.powermultiplier);

}
else{
damageOutput = (power / this.powermultiplier) + (power / this.weaponmultiplier);
}
return damageOutput;

Critical calc
double criticalDamageCalc(double power, double precision, double criticalDamage){

double powerDamage = this.powerAndWeaponCalc(power);
double criticalTotal =powerDamage + (((((precision-916)/21) + 4)/100)* powerDamage) * ((criticalDamage/100+1));

Copied from my code.

1.57 = power.multiplier For every 1.57 power, you will damage 1 more.

4.09 = is the weapon.multiplier. For every 4.09 power, you will damage 1 more.

If you sum these values together, you get what an attack damages (on the tooltip, and with some abillities “live” as well).

Excuse the mess, I hope this piece of code will clear out, how it works.

SuburbanLion

This app is only made for PvP, I had a quickview of the guide, and it looked to be for PvE. But I will have a look into it, when I am not forced to play Sc2 with my friends ;(

Just a quick comment on the following line of code:

damageOutput = (power / this.powermultiplier) + (power / this.weaponmultiplier);

By the distributive property, this is equivalent to:
damageOutput = (1/this.powermultiplier + 1/ this.weaponmultiplier)*power

Since the “powermultiplier” and “weaponmultiplier” are both constants, this can be reduced to a single value. This value is what we commonly refer to as the “skill coefficient”. You might see a little variation in whether or not the “coefficient” includes weapon damage or target armor, depending on what is assumed to be “constant” in the analysis.

While it doesn’t really matter in a tiny piece of code like this, it’s a good programming practice to pay attention to what values are constant and what values are not. It opens up possible compile-time optimizations.

I’m glad to see you’re interested in learning how to program. It’s a fun and rewarding hobby. Keep at it, collect some data in game, and see if your predictions are accurate or not. I’ve also got a blog post I’m working on, a follow-up to my Sharper Images spreadsheet from beta, that examines the pay-offs for bleeding on crit. Stay tuned for it. I think you’ll find it interesting.

Thanks for the advice I appreciate it bigtime. From what I have understood from the little I have learned, it’s essential that the code is optimized. I didn’t figure you could do it that way.

I will have a look at the spreadsheet, from what I have scrolled through it looks exactly like things I find interesting.