Guild Wars 2

I think this picture can explain everything about position of mesmers. Actually you know that but someone (coughDevscough) might want to know too

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

Well done! Good boooy

Hey, 2 of those mesmers have 0 points, less than you even! Mezmer UP, BUFF PLZ!1!

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

i wish i could say that about other classes…. mesmers are only class i see stacked atm, in every match

Cynz.9437:

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

i wish i could say that about other classes…. mesmers are only class i see stacked atm, in every match

Yeah because of whiners like you. People now try to play mesmers as hotjoin heroes. Indeed quite OP.

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

It’s not only ONE experience, everyone can tell you about how mesmer population skyrocketed ever since the last patch. I find it funny how people always try to find any kind of’’evidence’’ to disprove a fact. Fact is; mesmer is overpowered. And if you say otherwise you are probably maining mesmer yourself and don’t want to leave the OP train or you don’t play pvp at all.

I’ve find different times teams with at last 2 mesmers, sometimes more.
It can be easy to find expecially in a dai with Mesmer win daily because if you learn a little of how to use shatter skills or how to use a condition mesmer it’s easy to win in a team of all mesmers. The enemy will not be able to catch you.
Think about a condi mesmer. Then, think about 4 condi mesmer, all in mid, each with 3 clones. It’s like 4 enemies to kill and 16 possible targets (and the enemy can stealth and clone-swap).
It’s more or less impossible to win if you don’t have a large (Very large) amount of AoE to clean all they’re clones all the time XD

It’s a funny thing, I need to try it XD

Exciton.8942:

Cynz.9437:

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

i wish i could say that about other classes…. mesmers are only class i see stacked atm, in every match

Yeah because of whiners like you. People now try to play mesmers as hotjoin heroes. Indeed quite OP.

i will stop “whining” when mesmers will stop relying on bugs and way too overbuffed traits….
i don’t think me or any person complaining about mesmers are real reason why everyone plays them; mesmers are too rewarding atm and anyone who faced one after patch can tell, why bother trying to play underperforming classes when you can play something strong…

Yep, because before the patch it was completely impossible to destroy other teams in hotjoin and leave them at 0 points. That never happened. It also can’t happen now unless everyone on the winning team is mesmer. Truly this is a rare occurrence.

There are a lot of mesmers in hotjoin because mesmers are more new-player friendly now. It’ll probably die down in a while, but it’ll be exactly the same when Revenant comes out. Every match with probably have at least 2 and there will be Revs galore in hotjoin.

I have said in previous threads(not like it matters since people love coming here to rename threads and post the EXACT same things) there are certain things I would nerf/change with mesmer. The problem is most of the people whining have no idea how mesmer works and never learned how to fight them properly prior to the patch when most classes could face tank a full burst. They suggest horrible changes, but they don’t care because even if mesmer got nerfed into the ground they wouldn’t care, because they don’t, nor do they ever plan to, play mesmer.

There are at least 4 other threads on the front page alone about this topic in general. Why not share your amazing evidence there instead of flooding the forums like everyone else.

You think asking for blinding disspation to be fixed is horrible and clueless suggestion? Or confounding suggestions?

Btw, i was talking about ranked, i don’t do HJ.

Since when has hotjoin ever been a criteria for balance?

Also…

MrKahwk.9524:

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

It’s not only ONE experience, everyone can tell you about how mesmer population skyrocketed ever since the last patch. I find it funny how people always try to find any kind of’’evidence’’ to disprove a fact. Fact is; mesmer is overpowered. And if you say otherwise you are probably maining mesmer yourself and don’t want to leave the OP train or you don’t play pvp at all.

Countering anecdotal evidence with anecdotal evidence? Good plan.

MrKahwk.9524:

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

It’s not only ONE experience, everyone can tell you about how mesmer population skyrocketed ever since the last patch. I find it funny how people always try to find any kind of’’evidence’’ to disprove a fact. Fact is; mesmer is overpowered. And if you say otherwise you are probably maining mesmer yourself and don’t want to leave the OP train or you don’t play pvp at all.

Ooh, I can play the ‘say unsubstantiated things and call them fact’ game too!

Fact is, Mesmer is perfectly balanced right now. And if you say otherwise, you’re probably just getting killed all the time and are coming to the forums to whine instead of l2p.

Cynz.9437:

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

i wish i could say that about other classes…. mesmers are only class i see stacked atm, in every match

The ones I see are Ele’s and rampage warr’s..
Guess I win the anecdotal evidence contest..gimme mah prize.

Fay.2357:

MrKahwk.9524:

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

It’s not only ONE experience, everyone can tell you about how mesmer population skyrocketed ever since the last patch. I find it funny how people always try to find any kind of’’evidence’’ to disprove a fact. Fact is; mesmer is overpowered. And if you say otherwise you are probably maining mesmer yourself and don’t want to leave the OP train or you don’t play pvp at all.

Ooh, I can play the ‘say unsubstantiated things and call them fact’ game too!

Fact is, Mesmer is perfectly balanced right now. And if you say otherwise, you’re probably just getting killed all the time and are coming to the forums to whine instead of l2p.

You know nothing Fay Snow

I’ve won many games against teams with 2 mesmers, while my teams had one or less.

Emm?. Hotjoin screenshot as an evidence? Want me bring hj with all warrs or rangers, or any other class?

Hotjoin is still awful?

Thanks. Good to know.

Ahmm this is also happens in unranked and ranked. I do no get why people see the Hotjoin only part of the argument.

Well first… you’re not playing ranked. Pretty much anything that is not ranked isn’t really important.
Second, I rarely see other mesmers in ranked matches that I play.
Third, you probably staged this.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ahmm this is also happens in unranked and ranked. I do no get why people see the Hotjoin only part of the argument.

Last time I was on a mesmer-mesmer-mesmer! team in Unranked, we got rolled pretty hard. Because about 0.75 of us could really hold a point. (Hurray for anecdata.)

Even in the burst-and-burn meta, being able to pull off a strong burst isn’t everything.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ahmm this is also happens in unranked and ranked. I do no get why people see the Hotjoin only part of the argument.

Because the OP claimed to show the position of Mesmer in PvP with a screenshot from Hotjoin which doesn’t reflect the status of the current meta a bit. The only thing that counts is top tier PvP(tournaments) where the best players of each class play.
They use their classes for the full potential and that’s what the game should be balanced around and not around people ranting on the forums starting each post with “I main class a Mesmer and I think….”….it’s just so meaningless. If you(OP) need to let off some steam just go to the PvP lobby and join the other hotjoin heroes, but please keep the forums clean if you don’t even have solid proof for your arguments.ä
If I got one gold for everyone thinking that he’s blessed with the knowledge about the current state of PvP and Mesmer then I’d probably have bought all legendaries by now.

For those of you discounting anecdotal evidence, what other evidence do you think anyone could bring to bear on any question of balance? It’s all that’s available to any of us.

It’is hj… You can see various team compositions within same match…
Even rated prone to class daily.

Choppy.4183:

For those of you discounting anecdotal evidence, what other evidence do you think anyone could bring to bear on any question of balance? It’s all that’s available to any of us.

Hard math and scientific rigor. Claims of permastealth or 1-shotting “full bunker” builds can be tested via calculations or controlled experiments. Given a proper overview of an all mesmer team comp you can start devising counters and test those, if they still fall short against equally skilled opponents balance probably is off. By then you should have a 1-hour non-montage video or dozens of screencaps showing you getting stomped, not a single scoreboard where you don’t even show your latest death in the combat log.

Statistics. Ignore any claims of being “unbiased”, but the sheer amount of data holds value in itself. Fact is, you can always draw a straight line through 2 points, even if the correct curve would be a wave or exponential.
To do proper comparisons you need more data points than parameters in your model, which considering the sheer number of skills and skill facts means random forum posts, even by dozens or hundreds of different players, are absolutely meaningless unless they gain additional importance due to e.g. coming from a top-class pro player or testing specific things.

As an example, consider The Pledge. A single anecdote of solo permastealth (with video evidence or something) is enough to warn people that something is wrong. Then you need several minutes of proper testing to find that the trait is applying a disproportionally strong cooldown reduction. All of this can be done by a single player in <30min if they’re dedicated.
Knowing this, however, invalidates gigabytes of game data, even from top pro’s, about the balance of PU and mesmer stealth in general, leaving only the cases where no traited torch was in play.
If no such “unsung hero” arises, that volume of data would still reveal a large disparity in effectiveness between those using traited torch and those who don’t, pointing the devs in the right direction, but only after a lengthy and painstaking analysis.

Depending on the time and the class daily, I’ve seen one or two rooms that are literally all the same class. Does it prove anything? Yeah. That people want to do dailies. That’s about it.

On the other side if you participate in the Saturday’s OMFG PvP runs you will see 5 Mesmer team all the time

I’ve seen games with multiple rangers, thieves, and engineers too.

I recall exactly two games, ever, that had a disproportionate number of mesmers. The first was prepatch (8 or 9 of the 10 were mesmers), and once when my team, as a joke, decided to go all mesmers.

And i’ve seen high numbers of other professions too at one time or another.

Photoloss.4817:

…several valid points…

I’m with you on the scientific rigor, and the value of math when calculating build potential. But scientific rigor doesn’t preclude anecdotal evidence, as your own use of it shows. Not just in regards to The Pledge, but the 1-hour montage as well, which would be, unavoidably, a collection of anecdotal evidence.

Your standard of evidence seems unreasonably high, especially since it appears to be applied in only one direction. We’ve just had a big patch applied in a context where most people agree that (1) the game is difficult to balance across all classes, game modes, and levels within those modes , (2) the devs don’t really have a firm handle on how their game is played across all of those modes, and (3) they lack a test environment in which to evaluate the implications of their changes before they’re released into production (bugs aside).

While I agree a claim that something’s broken, unbalanced, etc. requires more evidence than one person saying so, or a single screen cap, the same standard should be required for claims to the contrary. That the game is balanced, especially after this patch, isn’t the default position here, and this sub-forum is full of evidence being discounted along the lines of predictable confirmation biases.

Requiring someone to painstakingly do a bunch of math, convince other people to test things out, collect hours of video and countless screenshots, etc. just to point out something’s wrong (or isn’t) without being completely dismissed is unreasonable.

Choppy.4183:

Photoloss.4817:

…several valid points…

I’m with you on the scientific rigor, and the value of math when calculating build potential. But scientific rigor doesn’t preclude anecdotal evidence, as your own use of it shows. Not just in regards to The Pledge, but the 1-hour montage as well, which would be, unavoidably, a collection of anecdotal evidence.

Your standard of evidence seems unreasonably high, especially since it appears to be applied in only one direction. We’ve just had a big patch applied in a context where most people agree that (1) the game is difficult to balance across all classes, game modes, and levels within those modes , (2) the devs don’t really have a firm handle on how their game is played across all of those modes, and (3) they lack a test environment in which to evaluate the implications of their changes before they’re released into production (bugs aside).

While I agree a claim that something’s broken, unbalanced, etc. requires more evidence than one person saying so, or a single screen cap, the same standard should be required for claims to the contrary. That the game is balanced, especially after this patch, isn’t the default position here, and this sub-forum is full of evidence being discounted along the lines of predictable confirmation biases.

Requiring someone to painstakingly do a bunch of math, convince other people to test things out, collect hours of video and countless screenshots, etc. just to point out something’s wrong (or isn’t) without being completely dismissed is unreasonable.

Everything is ok till the end. Just maybe anet is doing all the math. Why would we have to. I hope they don’t just make changes without proper data. Just because someone says x doesn’t mean it’s true. We might still believe the earth is flat.

Choppy.4183:

Photoloss.4817:

…several valid points…

I’m with you on the scientific rigor, and the value of math when calculating build potential. But scientific rigor doesn’t preclude anecdotal evidence, as your own use of it shows. Not just in regards to The Pledge, but the 1-hour montage as well, which would be, unavoidably, a collection of anecdotal evidence.

Your standard of evidence seems unreasonably high, especially since it appears to be applied in only one direction. We’ve just had a big patch applied in a context where most people agree that (1) the game is difficult to balance across all classes, game modes, and levels within those modes , (2) the devs don’t really have a firm handle on how their game is played across all of those modes, and (3) they lack a test environment in which to evaluate the implications of their changes before they’re released into production (bugs aside).

While I agree a claim that something’s broken, unbalanced, etc. requires more evidence than one person saying so, or a single screen cap, the same standard should be required for claims to the contrary. That the game is balanced, especially after this patch, isn’t the default position here, and this sub-forum is full of evidence being discounted along the lines of predictable confirmation biases.

Requiring someone to painstakingly do a bunch of math, convince other people to test things out, collect hours of video and countless screenshots, etc. just to point out something’s wrong (or isn’t) without being completely dismissed is unreasonable.

Since you seem to misunderstand a bit, my point was that anecdotal evidence does have value, but not to the extent of demanding balance changes without any “hard facts” to back it up.
However, there is a massive chasm between “individual” anecdotes that may provide early clues to imbalances and large-scale statistics. A single thread of the form “this seems a little off, please look into it” is enough, the other half a dozen are a badly written waste of space.

My reasoning behind the high standard for evidence is a very simple empirical metric: developer time. Not changing anything doesn’t require any time investment, if you want anything changed devs will have to work on that instead of fixing bugs, long-standing design issues already known, or implementing new content. Making a change when you aren’t already fairly certain the outcome will be positive has a high chance of wasting even more time.
I am not claiming the game to be balanced, quite on the contrary, but I trust the devs even less with rash pub-talk motivated changes than with clear responses to hard math.

Dev time is a resource the dev team will manage, and they’re the ones with large scale data, not us. They also don’t take direction from us, though I’m sure occassionally listen to what’s being said (at least custserv people like Gaile Grey probably do).

My point was simply the people discounting contrary pov by dismissing evidence as anecdotal aren’t recognizing that largely, at best, their own evidence is anecdotal as well. The purpose of a forum is to discuss ideas, and those ideas don’t require a massive amount of evidence in order to be discussed.

Case in point, most people accept that thieves were a hard counter to mesmers pre-patch. I’d be surprised if anyone could point to a large scale analysis and dataset that supports that position, yet it’s largely accepted, afaik. Accepting, dismissing, and basically just discussing something like that doesn’t require a massive evidentiary case beforehand, and that happens independent of a process that allocates dev time. Unless, of course, a problem has people a so kittened off that it elevates the business priority of a fix.

Choppy.4183:

Dev time is a resource the dev team will manage, and they’re the ones with large scale data, not us. They also don’t take direction from us, though I’m sure occassionally listen to what’s being said (certainly people like Gaile Grey probably do).

My point was simply the people discounting contrary pov by dismissing evidence as anecdotal aren’t recognizing that largely, at best, their own evidence is anecdotal as well. The purpose of a forum is to discuss ideas, and those ideas don’t require a massive amount of evidence in order to be discussed.

Case in point, most people accept that thieves were a hard counter to mesmers pre-patch. I’d be surprised if anyone could point to a large scale analysis and dataset that supports that position, yet it’s largely accepted, afaik. Accepting, dismissing, and basically just discussing something like that doesn’t require a massive evidentiary case beforehand, and that happens independent of a process that allocates dev time. Unless, of course, a problem has people a so kittened off that it elevates the business priority of a fix.

Well a poor example on the thief part since nothing was done for 2 plus years. However the warrior healing signet might be a better example due to anet maybe testing it and nerfing it.

Ow, these names.

Mesm’s burst out of stealth is just pure ridiculous.Nerf them into the ground, thx.

Thundaga.4358:

Mesm’s burst out of stealth is just pure ridiculous.Nerf them into the ground, thx.

It’s ridiculous the burst came pre patch.

I got it!! It’s ridiculous that Mesmer is a class. That sums it up.

Cynz.9437:

Exciton.8942:

Cynz.9437:

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

i wish i could say that about other classes…. mesmers are only class i see stacked atm, in every match

Yeah because of whiners like you. People now try to play mesmers as hotjoin heroes. Indeed quite OP.

i will stop “whining” when mesmers will stop relying on bugs and way too overbuffed traits….
i don’t think me or any person complaining about mesmers are real reason why everyone plays them; mesmers are too rewarding atm and anyone who faced one after patch can tell, why bother trying to play underperforming classes when you can play something strong…

actually, you sound like someone that will stop whining only when your main class is the one on top. Right now it’s a Mesmers issue, another patch later you will have another class to target. Why assume everyone here in the Mesmers forum is playing it because it is overpowered now? You have tried this class pre-patch when powerblock is immune on thieves and we are food for that class, you’ll understand why most of us are enjoying this time.

Thing is Choppy, I did the maths.

I worked out what our inflated stats would give our pre patch max burst, I then worked it out using the various modifiers in play. I found out that it’s the vulnerability we’re applying for little to no cost that is what’s giving us a bigger increase over pre patch.

Yet still people whine on about Mental Anguish shouldn’t have been buffed even though outside of the condition for 30% it’s actually a nerf.

Another example brought up by Photoloss about permastealth. So many jump on the “nerf PU” bandwagon yet they don’t realise that the CD on the traited torch when traited with PU gets down to 13s. 13s! That’s batkitten insane. While looking at the other end it’s quite frankly not worth picking without PU.

People are too hasty to say nerf this, nerf that but they don’t look and analyse what’s really happening. They don’t ask what’s different to pre patch, ask why it didn’t happen pre patch and apply reasoning.

We even get this from mesmer players who should know better and WTS players who go around saying something is broken but not being specific and breaking it down to precisely what needs toning down. That’s without pointing out the hypocrisy that is the celementalist a lot are fine with and the other utter BS stuff from other classes.

Choppy.4183:

Case in point, most people accept that thieves were a hard counter to mesmers pre-patch. I’d be surprised if anyone could point to a large scale analysis and dataset that supports that position, yet it’s largely accepted, afaik. Accepting, dismissing, and basically just discussing something like that doesn’t require a massive evidentiary case beforehand, and that happens independent of a process that allocates dev time. Unless, of course, a problem has people a so kittened off that it elevates the business priority of a fix.

Our dps is split about 50/50 between us and phantasms, we need a target to summon phantasms. Can’t target stealthed thieves. Phantasms won’t attack stealthed targets till they come out of stealth but will finish a channel. Also our clones even if they were told to shatter before the thief goes into stealth stop running and simply idle till they blow up so long as the thief remains hidden. Our stealth didn’t last longer and a thief had as many if not more teleports to keep up with us offering no escape while not relying on AI or very weak and easily killed clones for burst.

That is stuff you can test in game and was tested in game. It is not anecdotal, it was a cold hard fact.

rchu.8945:

Cynz.9437:

Exciton.8942:

Cynz.9437:

Fay.2357:

And I haven’t gotten a single match with more than 2 mesmers on a team at all.

Hooray, I can give meaningless anecdotal evidence too!

i wish i could say that about other classes…. mesmers are only class i see stacked atm, in every match

Yeah because of whiners like you. People now try to play mesmers as hotjoin heroes. Indeed quite OP.

i will stop “whining” when mesmers will stop relying on bugs and way too overbuffed traits….
i don’t think me or any person complaining about mesmers are real reason why everyone plays them; mesmers are too rewarding atm and anyone who faced one after patch can tell, why bother trying to play underperforming classes when you can play something strong…

actually, you sound like someone that will stop whining only when your main class is the one on top. Right now it’s a Mesmers issue, another patch later you will have another class to target. Why assume everyone here in the Mesmers forum is playing it because it is overpowered now? You have tried this class pre-patch when powerblock is immune on thieves and we are food for that class, you’ll understand why most of us are enjoying this time.

And you sound like someone who assumes too much knowing little to nothing about person you target.
Forums are created for feedback, if something is too broken then yes i will leave that feedback here, nobody forces you to read it.
Where did i say that everyone “here” play mesmer because they are overpowered? One of my best friends in game been maining mesmer for ages~
I did try mesmer before the patch, i had to so i would know how they work. Thieves weren’t immune to power block, certanly, weapon spells didn’t get affected by interrupt as much but utilities still did. On the other hand thieves get punished for not landing their spells due to initiative being global resource.
Mesmers weren’t “food” for thieves, yes thieves may have slight advantage in some situations but mainly, if teams were skilled it came down to who gets the jump first.
My friend rolled over countless thieves on his mes and that is pre-patch.

I am glad you enjoy this time but it shouldn’t be based on bugs and at costs of everyone else out there because franky at some point you will just have everyone else either reroll mesmer or simply quit pvp. Not that pvp community is big on first place. I would rather have semi balance and healthy pvp community than 1-2 broken classes and nobody to play against/with.
Also, the way i see, there are quite few older mesmer players who do not enjoy the current faceroll of the class.

Witch of thieves’ utilities are interruptible on reaction? Caltrops? Power block was almost useless against thief, even if u was able to land interrupt. Weapon skills were totally immune to PB. Yes, u loose some initiative, but because of interrupt, not PB trait.

@apharma
Don’t get me wrong, that you bothered to do some math is undeniably a contribution to those discussions, and more people should take the time to do it.

But the OP posted a screenshot as evidence of “the current state of mesmers”, however limited that evidence is. There’s not a lot of math that needs to be done there, and the point will inevitably be made through anecdotal evidence, at least at our level.

But his evidence was subsequently dismissed as anecdotal (as though that necessarily invalidates it, which it doesn’t), even though many others (possibly people who’ve discounted his evidence, I dont know) have referred to FotM mesmers without controversy, which absolutely supports his point. Your math does too, to some extent, you’ve just gone the extra mile to identify specific corrections that should be made.

Implicitly when something is dismissed as “anecdotal,” it’s really because it’s a bad anecdote.

That’s what people are saying here: not just that it’s a limited sample but that it’s a poor choice of sample. Since it’s a single hotjoin screenshot on what’s probably a mesmer daily day, with one not-very-balanced team dunking on another, on a map that a lot of players struggle with and where it’s easy to get snowballed if the enemy team is more coordinated than yours.

ASP.8093:

Implicitly when something is dismissed as “anecdotal,” it’s really because it’s a bad anecdote.

That’s what people are saying here: not just that it’s a limited sample but that it’s a poor choice of sample. Since it’s a single hotjoin screenshot on what’s probably a mesmer daily day, with one not-very-balanced team dunking on another, on a map that a lot of players struggle with and where it’s easy to get snowballed if the enemy team is more coordinated than yours.

There’s no such thing as a good anecdote, that’s entirely faulty reasoning. Enough anecdotes put together in a meaningful way become data, but each individual anecdote has no meaning on its own.

Fay, anecdotal evidence isn’t just an individual anecdote. If what you meant with your original comment was, “your one example isn’t enough to make a compelling case”, then fine, though it’d be a weirdly obvious point to make.

But, yeah, anecdotal evidence isn’t what you think it is. Your entire understanding of the game, including all of your experience with it, is anecdotal evidence and you clearly have no issue bringing that forward in your arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Thing is Choppy, I could post a screenshot of an all ranger party. Does that suddenly imply that ranger is OP as everyone played it? No, it just means people are using the rapid fire build for easy kills or its ranger day.

You can’t take anecdotal evidence just off face value. This is why people are dismissing it, especially when there own experience is extremely different. What if I posted a video or photo of a high win loss ratio as warrior? Does that mean warriors are brain dead easy? Does it mean they’re OP?

I have a photo of one of my friends in a pink too too, does that make him a cross dresser if I posted that and only that photo?

I fail to see what point the OP is trying badly to show. One picture of not even ranked PvP probably on a mes reward day, both sides with less than a full complement of people. OP likely mains engi and keeps getting owned in PvP by mes and then compounds his lack of skill with a failed troll attempt.

Score: 0/10 for effort.

@apharma
Not at all. I didn’t say his evidence was strong but, then, how much evidence should he have to post to demonstrate what many people have already noticed- that there are a lot more mesmers running around since the patch?

The OP, and others, have subsequently reasoned that this increase in mesmer population is due to the increase in power they received with the patch. The OP was clearly also implying that mesmers are currently too powerful relative to other classes, using his screenshot to point to the increase in population/frequency of mesmers.

His evidence only carries him to “there are more mesmers running around”. If you don’t disagree with that, then you have no quarrel with the evidence he’s provided. Seems to me people are more taking issue with his reasoning, not what’s shown in the screenshot, yet quite a few are wrongly focusing on the screenshot.

There’s nothing he could have posted to conclusively demonstrate that mesmers are overpowered. His reasoning isn’t bad though, it’s just not conclusive. At least he’s submitted some sort of evidence to the question, whereas those who think mesmer is perfectly balanced haven’t provided any, afaik.

(FYI, I don’t count you as one of the people who thinks mesmers are perfectly balanced, and my original comment on this thread was clearly not directed at you, but at people dismissing the OP on bad grounds)

kakumbien.8047:

I think this picture can explain everything about position of mesmers. Actually you know that but someone (coughDevscough) might want to know too

Last match I had yesterday was vs a team of 4 mesmers and 1 ele. I was like “fuuuuuck my life”.

There is no denying there is a boom in mesmer pop atm.

look there are 2 mesmers on the losing team. Mesmer not OP.