Guild Wars 2

In the dueling tree, Sharper Images should be changed to apply 1 sec of cripple when a clone crits. As of right now, it’s incredible hard to dance around stronger melee fighters like Thieves, Scrappers, Warriors, and Revenants. Melee mesmer isn’t meant to go blow to blow with other melee and I think we are supposed to dance around them and have more finesse when it comes to take them out. As of right now, I’m usually in a position where I have to go blow to blow because I can’t slow them down.

Also, reverting the change that made illusionary leaps’s clone death prevent teleporting to the location it was last at would help tremendously.

These two changes are, imo, necessary to bring life back to main hand sword power builds in pvp.

I want to add that because clones and phantasms die so easily, my sustain comes from spamming auto attack, and it’s hard to do that on targets running away from me because I can’t slow them down either.

Your sustain damage comes from auto-attacking as a mesmer? Personally I think you are playing it wrong. Damages from Mesmer mainly come from shatters and summoning your illusions I would say. The only time you stay in auto-attack mode is when you try to cleave downstate players and for that I would also rather use skill 2 of sword

Thanks, but i’m very experienced and I’m sure I’m playing at a decent or higher skill level.

Hot Boy.7138:

Thanks, but i’m very experienced and I’m sure I’m playing at a decent or higher skill level.

I bet you do

Let me explain then. Shatters are burst. Sustain is how you maintain damage when your burst skills are on cd. The reason mesmers dps is so low is because they have a lot of burst in pvp, that’s supposed to justify their lack of sustain dps in pve and pvp. The issue in PvE is mostly issues with scaling. In PvP, the issue is extremely limited access to slows that a melee mesmer would need. I don’t have superiority complex. But people on the forums are too quick to tell someone they’re playing wrong. The thread isn’t even about my skills as a player. It’s about petitioning for more access to cripple for melee builds.

It just sounds a bit confusing to be honest…

1) Sustain is usually used to refer to your ability to “sustain” in battle. So it’s a measure of “survivability” (defensive) and is not related to “sustained DPS” which is a obviously completely different. In the original post you talk about sustain when you probably meant sustained DPS, I think that was the first point of confusion.

2) In the follow-up there is another inconsistency in terms though. You are requesting Cripple, but then above you suddenly talk about limited access to slows. Again, a slow effect in GW2 is not a mobility impeding condition, but rather a means to slow down your actions. (Attacks, casting, etc.) Mesmers have a ton of slows in Chrono and utils/elites mainly, but I suppose we have a bit less Cripple. Still I don’t think we have a severe lack of Cripple:

- Sword #3
- Traited F2 Shatter
- Traited GS has quite a boatload of it actually
- Well of Calamity
- Chaos Armor

Of course Chill also has an even stronger movement impeding effect, and we don’t have a lot of that, but we do get it on Chaos Storm and Well of Recall. (And you can get it on Sigils and amor Runes.

So personally I feel we have quite a lot of movement impeding effects if built for it, but overall that does very little for us in pure melee combat with the vast majority of other professions (also built for melee range) because they simply greatly outclass us in both sustain, and sustained DPS. (Not to mention access to Stability.) That’s just my opinion though, not meant to attacks or devalue yours.

Just my 2 cents…

By slows, i mean movement speed slows.
General term I use when talking about “cripple” like conditions across all games. Similar to terms “roots” used to describe immobilizations

I think Mesmer is outclassed in melee by other melee classes because it’s not made for trading blows. I believe melee mesmer died when clone death traits were gutted from the game. I don’t think we need to see a return of clone death traits. I can’t speak for everyone, but just for myself here. But from my experience, I did well quite well in pvp because of clone death traits and i was a power build. The cripple and weakness applied gave me a chance to survive in close range with them.

Since losing the cripple and weakness on clone death traits and stats from traits, there was an era of very limited amulets in pvp. As melee mesmer, berserker amulet was almost useless for me in pvp because I couldn’t survive in the midst of group fights without the stats from traits. They introduced the demolisher’s amulet and suddenly the build I enjoyed playing became possible again. It offered decent toughness on top of what is essentially a power dps amulet, with the loss of some crit damage. Fair trade.

But even with this new amulet, I can have some fun in pvp again, but it’s lacking in soft control. By soft control, I just mean cripple and weakness.

I don’t know about you, but I play unranked and when I see other mesmers using a main hand sword, it’s only for blurred frenzy, usually defensive move. And they swap back to the other wep set asap to do damage. And it has been like this since they removed the clone death traits. Main hand sword has turned into a defensive wep only good for Blurred Frenzy, because illusionary leap has been gutted. And it’s hard to keep up a steady auto attack chain on a target because I can’t slow them down.

So the demolisher’s amulet was a good move in helping melee mesmers to survive in group fights and in 1v1s. But without a steady access to soft CC like cripple, and possibly weakness, it won’t be able to compete.

Now I love sword. I won’t use any other weapons in mainhand. So I would like to see it work. And offhand sword is fine as it is in my opinion. And I think it’s fair for me to say that because I always run offhand sword, so I have a lot of experience with it.

But right now, melee mesmer is easily kited by anyone simply running in circles, and is outclassed by other melee. To conclude, I just wanna restate that demolisher’s amulet was a good move for power melee builds, but I believe it also needs a more consistent source of cripple. Which is why I’m suggesting to have Sharper Image trait apply 1 sec of cripple on clone crits.

Seems to me that playing mesmer as a melee class goes pretty hard against the class design. There’s a reason why MH sword is primarily a defensive weapon; as you point out, if you stay in melee against stronger melee classes, you’re going to get wrecked pretty quickly. If you’re playing power mesmer in the middle of the group fight, you’re going to get wrecked pretty quickly. You’re supposed to use your weapon swaps so that you can kite and avoid damage, and the clone death trait never made melee-only mesmer a viable build. If you don’t like that playstyle there are other professions that you might find more enjoyable.

okay.

Bertrand.3057:

Seems to me that playing mesmer as a melee class goes pretty hard against the class design. There’s a reason why MH sword is primarily a defensive weapon; as you point out, if you stay in melee against stronger melee classes, you’re going to get wrecked pretty quickly. If you’re playing power mesmer in the middle of the group fight, you’re going to get wrecked pretty quickly. You’re supposed to use your weapon swaps so that you can kite and avoid damage, and the clone death trait never made melee-only mesmer a viable build. If you don’t like that playstyle there are other professions that you might find more enjoyable.

And I’ve been playing mesmer since beta. I’ haven’t mained any other class. I’ve always run dual swords on one wep set and sword/x in the other set. I remember what melee builds were viable and what weren’t very clearly. Sword is the ONLY melee weapon mesmer have. You’re telling me that sword only being used for blurred frenzy evasion is how mesmer should be and I should just play range like every other mesmer in pvp? What happens when the meta shifts to melee builds? Will you then say that range was never viable and it’s against class design asking for ranged weps to be buffed? There’s no end to the flip flopping of meta. It’s dynamic and will always be so, but that doesn’t mean someone should just delete their character and make a new one when it shifts. What i’m suggesting is a change to improve build diversity that fits the class design of a chronomancer/mesmer.

One of this game’s major selling point is that there are multiple playstyles available for each class. You can be a warrior with a longbow, or a melee ranger with a greatsword, or even a elementalist with dual daggers, or play traditionally if you so choose. Sword is a dps weapon. Please don’t tell me that sword is supposed to be a defensive weapon and that it’s against class design for it to be anything such.

Telling me to play another class because I want better access to cripple is asinine. If the best you can come up with to anyone who makes suggestions to improve build diversity is to play another class then you shouldn’t comment. Whenever I see a response like that I think to myself that person must be a troll.

Build diversity involves having the options of multiple playstyles for a certain class. Don’t like direct damage, then you can do conditions. Don’t like melee, then play ranged. Want to play like wolverine, then run a drain life build., etc. The list goes on. Melee is my preferred playstyle on MESMER, not on any other class. I’ve always played melee mesmer through all the ups and through all the downs, and will continue to do so, but it can be improved. It could be made more fun. If i wanted to play another class, I don’t need you to tell me that.

Hot Boy.7138:

And I’ve been playing mesmer since beta. I’ haven’t mained any other class.

I only played since launch so you must be right.

I’ve always run dual swords on one wep set and sword/x in the other set. I remember what melee builds were viable and what weren’t very clearly. Sword is the ONLY melee weapon mesmer have.

Melee mesmer builds were never viable. They may have been stronger with certain traits but that is not the same as being viable. Depends on your competition, I guess.

You’re telling me that sword only being used for blurred frenzy evasion is how mesmer should be and I should just play range like every other mesmer in pvp? What happens when the meta shifts to melee builds? Will you then say that range was never viable and it’s against class design asking for ranged weps to be buffed? There’s no end to the flip flopping of meta. It’s dynamic and will always be so, but that doesn’t mean someone should just delete their character and make a new one when it shifts. What i’m suggesting is a change to improve build diversity that fits the class design of a chronomancer/mesmer.

On this score, the meta has never flip-flopped, and for good reason. Running MH sword on both your swaps means you deprive yourself of having alternatives for your AA and 2-3 skills and they share a cooldown. In this case, you’re not going against class design, you’re going against game design.

One of this game’s major selling point is that there are multiple playstyles available for each class. You can be a warrior with a longbow, or a melee ranger with a greatsword, or even a elementalist with dual daggers, or play traditionally if you so choose.

It’s not effective for warriors or rangers to camp a single weapon either.

Sword is a dps weapon. Please don’t tell me that sword is supposed to be a defensive weapon and that it’s against class design for it to be anything such.

DPS weapon in PvE, but not in PvP. The 2.5s rooted evasion is a pretty big hint about what kind of weapon sword is.

If the best you can come up with to anyone who makes suggestions to improve build diversity is to play another class then you shouldn’t comment. Whenever I see a response like that I think to myself that person must be a troll.

You can either try to listen to others who disagree with you or just tell yourself they’re trolling. It’s up to you.

Build diversity involves having the options of multiple playstyles for a certain class. Don’t like direct damage, then you can do conditions. Don’t like melee, then play ranged. Want to play like wolverine, then run a drain life build., etc. The list goes on. Melee is my preferred playstyle on MESMER, not on any other class. I’ve always played melee mesmer through all the ups and through all the downs, and will continue to do so, but it can be improved. It could be made more fun. If i wanted to play another class, I don’t need you to tell me that.

All classes can’t be all things, or there would be no class diversity in this game. Mesmers are a squishy light armor class and have only one melee option, which makes them a poor class to use in melee-only. Warriors are a tanky heavy armor class and have access to 5 melee weapons, which makes them a better class to use in melee-only. You can ignore class design and play how you want, but if you do then don’t expect people to take your suggestions seriously.

To your first point of sarcasm, you can be kitten if you want.

Melee builds were viable. I don’t follow esports and care little for pre-made teams. But as a solo queuer pvp and solo roamer it was definitely competitive choice to play. Maybe not in your world where anything that’s not meta is invalid. Even now it’s not a terrible choice to be melee, though it needs some improvements. Viability isn’t based on popularity.

To your third point, it evades while dealing damage. When more mesmers were power shatter builds, it was mostly paired with shatters for bigger burst. It’s a dps weapon and the reason it evades is because it roots the player while they’re doing damage. But that could also be used defensively. It has the highest damage out of auto attack out of all weapons available to us. It just so happens it’s hard to keep it up with cripple. It is a dps weapon for melee players. I’m gonna assume you’re basing your judgement on what is most popular, then it is a defensive weapon for people who only bring it for the evasion.

The meta is dynamic. It always flip flops. It’s always changing. Maybe you don’t remember there was an era of most people running bunker. Before that most people were running zerker sets but thieves were causing too much havoc at the time. the flow of the meta goes by what people are trying to counter most. Therefore it changes with every balance patch.

Telling someone to play another class is trolling. There’s no exchange in that kind of discussion. It’s simply, “don’t like it, leave”. I was telling my friend that the forums function a lot like society. In society they stress individualism, but if you stand out, they want you to conform. In this game, people want build diversity, but then only the single most popular build is the only one that’s viable, though there can be success with many others for people willing to experiment and go against the grain.

All classes, for the most part, have the potential to be all things. Warriors used to have a shout healing build. Who would have thought you could play a healing warrior? Mesmers have a healing build, and a tank build. It has a dps build, it just so happens the damage sucks, because it’s totally outshined by maximizing boonshare. Eles used to run bunkers. The potential is there. I once saw a video of vale guardian tanked by a thief. You’re mistaken on this point.

It’s true that other classes have a variety of melee weapons instead of just one. that’s just my unfortunate luck that I fell in love with the class that only has one, so I make it work. sword/sword and sword/x is a viable set up. Like i said before, i don’t follow professonal gamers and copy their builds. I play in unranked as a solo queuer and after 4200 matches as melee mesmer, my winrate is more than my losses.

And I agree, the game is intended for wep swap. It’s worth it to me to keep sword in main hand on both wep sets. I actually thought it would be ridiculous, but realized i play much better this way. I have much more success. With demolisher’s amulet i can participate in group fights, and still be an asset to the team.

And I’m a reasonable guy. But I don’t take advice from people who doesn’t have anything to add to the discussion but play another class if you don’t like it. There’s no exchange of ideas in that kind of discussion.

Mainhand sword has a powerful gapcloser and control skill in illusionary leap. Additionally, the radius of a point (excepting foefire mid) is barely larger than the range of the mainhand sword cleave. If you’re unable to autoattack someone when they’re on a point with you, more cripple isn’t going to fix that problem. If you’re complaining about people running away…you just won the point. If you’re fighting off point…you’re playing poorly.

Fay.2357:

Mainhand sword has a powerful gapcloser and control skill in illusionary leap. Additionally, the radius of a point (excepting foefire mid) is barely larger than the range of the mainhand sword cleave. If you’re unable to autoattack someone when they’re on a point with you, more cripple isn’t going to fix that problem. If you’re complaining about people running away…you just won the point. If you’re fighting off point…you’re playing poorly.

Well thanks, I guess that solves everything.

Hot Boy.7138:

Fay.2357:

Mainhand sword has a powerful gapcloser and control skill in illusionary leap. Additionally, the radius of a point (excepting foefire mid) is barely larger than the range of the mainhand sword cleave. If you’re unable to autoattack someone when they’re on a point with you, more cripple isn’t going to fix that problem. If you’re complaining about people running away…you just won the point. If you’re fighting off point…you’re playing poorly.

Well thanks, I guess that solves everything.

Your complaint simply doesn’t make sense within the context of PvP. Do you want to deal sustained melee damage? Then you have to be on the point. If you’re on the point, you can hit with sword auto, so you don’t need cripple. If you want to kite around, you have to be off the point. If you’re off the point, you lose and therefor are playing poorly.

You’re complaining about a problem that doesn’t exist unless you’re playing in a way that guarantees your team loses.

Fay.2357:

Hot Boy.7138:

Fay.2357:

Mainhand sword has a powerful gapcloser and control skill in illusionary leap. Additionally, the radius of a point (excepting foefire mid) is barely larger than the range of the mainhand sword cleave. If you’re unable to autoattack someone when they’re on a point with you, more cripple isn’t going to fix that problem. If you’re complaining about people running away…you just won the point. If you’re fighting off point…you’re playing poorly.

Well thanks, I guess that solves everything.

Your complaint simply doesn’t make sense within the context of PvP. Do you want to deal sustained melee damage? Then you have to be on the point. If you’re on the point, you can hit with sword auto, so you don’t need cripple. If you want to kite around, you have to be off the point. If you’re off the point, you lose and therefor are playing poorly.

You’re complaining about a problem that doesn’t exist unless you’re playing in a way that guarantees your team loses.

They should just remove all cripple, chill, and immobilizations from the game in that case. Everyone should be fighting on the point and anyone who leaves the point has already lost. Makes perfect sense. No one needs any movement impeding effects and all this time Arenanet has just been making their own game wrong.

Hot Boy.7138:

They should just remove all cripple, chill, and (…)

Can you stop for a minute with the childish reactions and actually react to his input?

Carighan.6758:

Hot Boy.7138:

They should just remove all cripple, chill, and (…)

Can you stop for a minute with the childish reactions and actually react to his input?

No, no, that would involve formulating an actual argument that didn’t contain inherent contradictions.

Fay.2357:

Carighan.6758:

Hot Boy.7138:

They should just remove all cripple, chill, and (…)

Can you stop for a minute with the childish reactions and actually react to his input?

No, no, that would involve formulating an actual argument that didn’t contain inherent contradictions.

yeah, okay. I’m sure that gave you and your lackey a good laugh.

Hot Boy.7138:

Fay.2357:

Carighan.6758:

Hot Boy.7138:

They should just remove all cripple, chill, and (…)

Can you stop for a minute with the childish reactions and actually react to his input?

No, no, that would involve formulating an actual argument that didn’t contain inherent contradictions.

yeah, okay. I’m sure that gave you and your lackey a good laugh.

6 different people have responded to this thread, all in agreement that your suggestion and complaints make no sense. Not a single person has been in agreement with you. Normally this produces a reaction of thinking that perhaps your original idea just isn’t as great as you thought it was. Other times it means you explained it poorly, and need to provide a better explanation or examples.

What makes you so sure that you’re right and all of us other experienced mesmers are wrong?

Fay.2357:

Hot Boy.7138:

Fay.2357:

Carighan.6758:

Hot Boy.7138:

They should just remove all cripple, chill, and (…)

Can you stop for a minute with the childish reactions and actually react to his input?

No, no, that would involve formulating an actual argument that didn’t contain inherent contradictions.

yeah, okay. I’m sure that gave you and your lackey a good laugh.

6 different people have responded to this thread, all in agreement that your suggestion and complaints make no sense. Not a single person has been in agreement with you. Normally this produces a reaction of thinking that perhaps your original idea just isn’t as great as you thought it was. Other times it means you explained it poorly, and need to provide a better explanation or examples.

What makes you so sure that you’re right and all of us other experienced mesmers are wrong?

It doesn’t matter and YOU don’t matter. I’m petitioning to the devs, not to 6 people who play the game. Devs and the balance team makes the changes. Don’t delude yourself into thinking you’re somehow of some higher stature. This is a community forum. You’re not a council that decide anything. If the devs agree, they will implement my suggestion. If they don’t, then they won’t.

Everyone is welcome to give their opinion. That’s all there is to it.

I do want to thank Windwalker for his well thought out post though. No disrespect to you, brother.

Hot Boy.7138:

It doesn’t matter and YOU don’t matter. I’m petitioning to the devs, not to 6 people who play the game. Devs and the balance team makes the changes.

In that case I wish you luck when a dev comes by next august for their bi-yearly stroll through the profession forums.

Fay.2357:

Hot Boy.7138:

It doesn’t matter and YOU don’t matter. I’m petitioning to the devs, not to 6 people who play the game. Devs and the balance team makes the changes.

In that case I wish you luck when a dev comes by next august for their bi-yearly stroll through the profession forums.

Thank you. One can never have enough luck.

Windwalker wasn’t being any more or less thoughtful than other posters here, just more polite, even though you’re clearly an arrogant kitten in your own right.

Hot Boy.7138:

Telling someone to play another class is trolling.

I took the time to explain my position, but because you don’t like my conclusion then I must be trolling.

You say you want to play melee and dance around stronger enemies. That’s already in the game, but it’s not MH sword on mesmer. It’s MH sword on ranger, with a backwards evade + leap on #2, another evasive attack on #3, plus cripple on AA. It’s MH sword on thief, which has cripple on AA, a shadowstep with recall on #2, with the option of an evade/follow-up attack or stun with burst on #3.

What’s MH sword on mesmer? Boon strip AA, a long root evade coupled with burst, and leap towards target with immobilization. You’d have to radically redesign MH sword on mesmer to make it fit the archetype you described. I like MH sword on mesmer and I don’t think you’ve justified such a change.

Your current suggestion is to replace the bleed effect on sharper images with a cripple. This idea is not well-thought through. It wouldn’t make you better at trading blows in melee. If you’re getting wrecked by a warrior in melee because he has more weapon options and utilities available in melee, it does not matter that you apply a cripple to him if you’re just going to stay in melee and AA. If you think you’re going to use the cripple to run out of melee range so you can run back in and hit at an opportune time… I don’t know how that works unless he’s a keyboard turner.

However, you haven’t even considered how this would affect other mesmer builds – which is to say, it would be great! When I’m running GS and I get an additional source of cripple, now it’s that much easier for me to kite with all my ranged clones landing stacks of cripple.

And who am I going to kite?

Melee mesmers.

You raise a good point. I already get kited to hell by greatsword mesmers and they’re the toughest match up for me.

Maybe cripple should go on the sword trait in dueling that stacks ferocity. Making it also make sword clones and sword phantasms cause cripple may be a better option.

And running in and out of melee by keeping the target crippled works well. I have a whole youtube channel dedicated to exactly that playstyle.

Anyways, I have midterms to study for and won’t be on forums for 48 hours starting now. I’ll respond to any new posts then.

Hot Boy.7138:

Fay.2357:

What makes you so sure that you’re right and all of us other experienced mesmers are wrong?

Don’t delude yourself into thinking you’re somehow of some higher stature.

hmmmm….

Hot Boy.7138:

Thanks, but i’m very experienced and I’m sure I’m playing at a decent or higher skill level.

WhiteRose.6934:

Hot Boy.7138:

Fay.2357:

What makes you so sure that you’re right and all of us other experienced mesmers are wrong?

Don’t delude yourself into thinking you’re somehow of some higher stature.

hmmmm….

Hot Boy.7138:

Thanks, but i’m very experienced and I’m sure I’m playing at a decent or higher skill level.

lmao

I’m sure you’re really laughing hard at that….

So back to the topic. For anyone not wanting to go through the entire thread, this will sum up the direction I’d like to see power build melee mesmers go in.

I’d like to see melee mesmers get more access to cripple.

And I’ve had some time to think.

I’d like melee mesmer sword builds go in the direction of focusing on soft CCs, in the form of non-damaging conditions. I don’t think melee mesmer need a damage buff in pvp with this change.

It would essentially be a debuffing build: It has pretty decent access to blinds and vulnerability so far, but the rest can be improved upon.

I don’t see a clear direction right now for sword focused mesmers right now, and making it a debuff build could give it a unique role. And that would justify it’s current damage output.

For starters:
There needs to be more support in terms of runes and sigils for soft CC conditions, especially Slow and cripple.
Chill needs a rune set that is power based.

I’ll think of more.

If anything we need less spammable <anything> in this game. CC, too. Boons, Conditions, even raw damage.

So I’d rather have kitten root on a 30s CD which due to high cooldowns on breakers/purges is nigh-uncounterable than some form of semi-passive cripple on the autoattack or anything like that.

Spammable XYZ is the bane of this combat system, tbh…

If I assume a sincere interest in a constructive discussion on your part, there is clearly a large difference in perspective between you and everyone who has responded to your thread. To make room for productive conversation, that difference needs to be addressed, so that’s what I’ll do.

Hot Boy.7138:

melee mesmers

You keep talking about “melee mesmers” as though that’s a category which deserves consideration as a complete, indivisible profession identity. You propose that if “melee mesmers” do not have enough options to be effective, the game should be changed to correct that.

I’m not saying that you aren’t allowed to play mesmer this way (I suggested trying other professions because I thought it could help you find your desired playstyle), but I do think you are wrong to think of this as a category which should be assessed on its own. A “melee mesmer”, in my view, is simply a mesmer wielding a mainhand sword. When I think about how it should be balanced, my concern is how sword fares as a mainhand weapon, so I compare it to other mainhand weapons, and two-handed weapons, and think about how it complements the weapon options that the mesmer class has. This is how balance works for every profession. No one says, “scepter guardian needs mobility and blinds”, or “an ele who only uses fire attunement should get some CC and healing”. Promoting different builds means making sure the different weapons, utilities, traits, etc. all bring something valuable to the profession – it doesn’t mean making one weapon effective in every scenario.

You appear to be blind to potential unintended effects of the changes you propose, my guess is that it’s because you’ve stuck with this playstyle and not thought about much else. You admitted that your original suggestion to change Sharper Images wouldn’t work; changing or adding runes and sigils to make CC options more available would likewise be exploited by different builds and professions. So your alternatives are a buff or change in function to mainhand sword, which doesn’t make sense because the weapon is already strong enough to have a place in the most effective mesmer builds and people enjoy what its unique design brings to the game.

I’ve over it.

Balance in this game is just terrible all around.
WTB competent balance team.

gonna try to make a switch to raids and just pve.

Hot Boy.7138:

I’ve over it.

Balance in this game is just terrible all around.
WTB competent balance team.

gonna try to make a switch to raids and just pve.

K bye!

DeathReign.7821:

Hot Boy.7138:

I’ve over it.

Balance in this game is just terrible all around.
WTB competent balance team.

gonna try to make a switch to raids and just pve.

K bye!

Unnecessary.
Sometimes I have to wonder about the people on these forums… so many of you seem sad to me. Enjoy your weekend. Hope things get better for you.

Hot Boy.7138:

DeathReign.7821:

Hot Boy.7138:

I’ve over it.

Balance in this game is just terrible all around.
WTB competent balance team.

gonna try to make a switch to raids and just pve.

K bye!

Unnecessary.
Sometimes I have to wonder about the people on these forums… so many of you seem sad to me. Enjoy your weekend. Hope things get better for you.

I was thinking the exact same while reading your posts.

K, no bye then.

Hot Boy.7138:

It doesn’t matter and YOU don’t matter. I’m petitioning to the devs, not to 6 people who play the game. Devs and the balance team makes the changes. Don’t delude yourself into thinking you’re somehow of some higher stature. This is a community forum. You’re not a council that decide anything. If the devs agree, they will implement my suggestion. If they don’t, then they won’t.

Everyone is welcome to give their opinion. That’s all there is to it.

You kinda shot yourself in the foot there by stating that this is a community forum. So as far as the counter goes you have 1 person (who plays the game) advocating for one thing while you have 6 others (who also play the game) advocating another thing. It’s not that those 6 people have sort of make believe status but rather they are in the majority. If I dev were to walk in here he would see a petition from 1 playing asking for a QoL change while 6 players are stating it’s not needed. Lack of cripple (or soft control in general) on Mesmer isn’t a bug of any sort so there’s no rush at looking into this problem nor is ther any NEED to fix the problem either.

My two copper on Sword with respect to PvP is that it’s indeed a leans more towards the defensive side of the spectrum simple due to its signature 2 skill. I don’t look at the mainhand sword and take it for it damage or control but rather for it’s evade-frames. That, and I realize if I’m playing Mesmer I have a fraction of the sustain damage output that other classes have. Mesmer does a much much better job at spike damage. After that spike? There’s not a whole lot we can do to maintain pressure damage wise. Though for that Mesmers are compensated with more access to blinds, evades, blocks, invulns, and hard cc than other classes.

There’s even boon strip on the Sword’s auto (that sword clones get access to), and you’re (OP) wanting more features to the weapon? Honestly, that’s too much for a 3 skill weapon regardless of game mode. Give soft cc to off-hand sword? That’s a maybe at best as you already have hard cc, block, and you’re hardest natural hitting phant on that weapon (warlock dps is situational).

First, the significance of a single player asking for more soft CC is about equal to 6 players saying it doesn’t need it, out of the entire player base. 6 nays out of the entire pvp community is nothing.

Second, Devs clearly aren’t making balance changes based on player feedback. They’re going to do what they think is best. So even if it were 10,000 players saying nay, if the developers see value in my argument, they’ll implement it. If not, then they won’t. Simple as that.

Basing any assumption on what the devs may or may not do based on 6 players votes is silly.

I said i was over it because balance overall is out of wack. The damage is far too high, along with boon uptime and condition spam. I honestly feel like I’m one of the few players not looking to take advantage of this broken balance system by coming up with the most OPed build I can play. What I"m looking for is to make sword mesmers more fun. I know greatsword power builds are much stronger because you can literally just one shot unsuspecting people in one burst combo. There’s no counter play to that imo. And without counter play, the tug and pull of health bars going back and forth, there isn’t much fun to be had. I think sword is in a good place, but traits supporting a primarily sword build is lacking.

The issue with being primarily in sword set is that it’s hard to stay on top of a target, or create any space. I don’t know if you remember this, but greatsword had been a great kiting weapon since launch, if not the best paired with stealth. And then they changed the greatsword trait later on so it every greatsword skill applies cripple. That was when I realized the balance team aren’t doing a good job. I think sword should have gotten that buff.

In either case. I’m not worried about anyone that disagrees in this thread, as long as it’s not “play another class response.” Many of the points are valid, and I don’t think that invalidates any of my issues with sword. I know what I’m talking about because I’m in sword set literally all the time with sword/sword and sword/shield. Other people who are more adaptable are fine because they don’t sit in sword all the time the way I do. But even if I used gs in the other weapon set, i would just use it for the phantasm and switch back to sword asap, similar to how sword is used just for blurred frenzy, and I guess shield skills since that’s the offhand of choice in pvp. After my gs phantasm is out, i’m annoyed waiting on the cd to get back to my sword set.

But as I said before, we are waiting very long between balance patches for a poor attempt at balance. I got annoyed last night in pvp and decided that I put my suggestion out there for the devs to see. Though maybe I should have put my thoughts in the pvp forums.

To sum up. Sword is fine. But being primarily melee suffers from not being able to stay on top of the target and being unable to survive well against other melee, and that could be fixed with traits, and more sigils/rune variations.

Hot Boy.7138:

I said i was over it because balance overall is out of wack. The damage is far too high, along with boon uptime and condition spam.

Which is why I made this thread asking for drastic increases to the amount of condition spam available for Mesmer sword

Fay.2357:

Hot Boy.7138:

I said i was over it because balance overall is out of wack. The damage is far too high, along with boon uptime and condition spam.

Which is why I made this thread asking for drastic increases to the amount of condition spam available for Mesmer sword

I asked for soft CC in the form of NON damaging conditions, which is inline with the current state of the game.

Hot Boy.7138:

Fay.2357:

Hot Boy.7138:

I said i was over it because balance overall is out of wack. The damage is far too high, along with boon uptime and condition spam.

Which is why I made this thread asking for drastic increases to the amount of condition spam available for Mesmer sword

I asked for soft CC in the form of NON damaging conditions, which is inline with the current state of the game.

It may be in line for the game, but it’s not really in line with Mesmer. Sure the class used to have on-illusion-death traits to aid with soft cc, but just as you said, the devs will balance based on what they feel is best for the game. That’s not to say that the 6 people on this thread are gonna seal the deal (actually it’s more than 6 now since practically everyone else on this thread has spoken against your claim), but the devs do consider player feedback when making QoL changes.

Balance issues, on the other hand, seem to be decided almost exclusively internally. And adding more access to soft cc for Mesmer isn’t a balance issue at all since we’re compensated for lack of that availability in our utility. Your plea effectively boils down to “my favorite weapon doesn’t do all the things I want it to”. For those of us you are calling out who “adapt”? That’s part of the game. Whether that be a new weapon, a new build, or a new class that’s to be expected of any player that wants something.

As far as you don’t care that we disagree with you? Well, welcome to the forums. You’re speaking your mind, and everyone else who feels strongly about the subject is speaking up as well. It just so happens that it seems that no one else besides you cares to support this QoL change because we know that if Mesmer gets access to more soft CC they’ll end up giving up something in return. If this were treated as a balancing issue Mesmer getting cripple would also open up other classes to be compensated as well.

It is in line with Mesmer. Mesmer is a support class. A debuff build via soft CC/non damaging conditions is support. It would be perfect for a dueling class such as mesmer. Mesmer’s whole theme is about misdirection. Chronomancers theme is about time magic: slowing enemies and speeding up allies.

And I don’t need you to welcome me to the forums. I don’t even understand the sarcasm in that. Because are you telling me that I should care about the opinion of players on a video game forum? Because I’m not bothered by anyone disagreeing and I can’t bring myself to be bothered by it. So, please allow me to welcome you to real life, where this has no real life significance.

And I’ve never seen the developers balance this game as if they were weighing two objects against each other on a scale. If sword gets some love it doesn’t necessarily mean that another class will be given something because mesmer got something new. Or that something will be taken away because something was added. It almost always balanced on the basis of something being added because it is lacking, or something being taken away because it is overtuned.

And you are right about one thing: Sword is my favorite weapon, so most definitely I would like to see it improved in the sense of filling in the holes of where I think it’s lacking in the current state of the game.

I still fail to see your point that we’re lacking soft CC, especially when talking about Mesmer in melee range! We have Chaos Armor and lots of ways to proc it in our Etheral fields, and we can even trait that CA to provide us with oodles of Protection, which also aids us in melee range.

As long as our opponents attack us, they will therefore proc lots of Weakness and Cripple off CA, while also giving us boons (again Protection) .

Then from Chrono you can add a lot of Slow to this from Interrupts and Critical Hits, or from WoC or WoA, not to mention our TW Elite which is again a long-lasting Etheral field that you can proc CA off.

All that still leaves 1-2 open utility slots of your choice, and one spec line of your choice…although Inspiration is probably highly necessary to get a good bit more sustain. (Which as we’re telling you, you’re going to need as a Mesmer in melee range.)

None of this changes the fact that you’ll still do relatively poor damage output, while still having less on-point sustain than many professions/builds out there.

It’s not a terrible way to spec IMO, and it’s certainly not an issue of lacking soft CC, but rather that our sustained DPS is simply poor any way you slice it…as is our on-point sustain. (The latter of which we’re simply not meant for IMO, as a slew recent nerfs have clearly targeted exactly that.)

It’s frustrating, I agree…I just don’t agree with your solution.

Windwalker.7421:

I still fail to see your point that we’re lacking soft CC, especially when talking about Mesmer in melee range! We have Chaos Armor and lots of ways to proc it in our Etheral fields, and we can even trait that CA to provide us with oodles of Protection, which also aids us in melee range.

As long as our opponents attack us, they will therefore proc lots of Weakness and Cripple off CA, while also giving us boons (again Protection) .

Then from Chrono you can add a lot of Slow to this from Interrupts and Critical Hits, or from WoC or WoA, not to mention our TW Elite which is again a long-lasting Etheral field that you can proc CA off.

All that still leaves 1-2 open utility slots of your choice, and one spec line of your choice…although Inspiration is probably highly necessary to get a good bit more sustain. (Which as we’re telling you, you’re going to need as a Mesmer in melee range.)

None of this changes the fact that you’ll still do relatively poor damage output, while still having less on-point sustain than many professions/builds out there.

It’s not a terrible way to spec IMO, and it’s certainly not an issue of lacking soft CC, but rather that our sustained DPS is simply poor any way you slice it…as is our on-point sustain. (The latter of which we’re simply not meant for IMO, as a slew recent nerfs have clearly targeted exactly that.)

It’s frustrating, I agree…I just don’t agree with your solution.

I never have chaos armor. Sword doesn’t have any finishers to blast our fields.
If i could proc chaos armor more easily that would be a huge boon to survivability in melee range.

Your suggestions about chaos armor only apply staff. Staff has a skill for chaos armor and it is the only weapon with a leap finisher to proc it from ethreal combo fields. I want to add that staff is already the most overused weapon in pvp for mesmer. Suggesting I use staff isn’t really going to win you any arguments for build diversity.

And I think our damage in pvp is good as is. Greatsword is actually overtuned, imo. And staff is in a good place. Sword’s damage is in a very good place. I don’t think it needs to be buffed at all.

Hot Boy.7138:

I never have chaos armor. Sword doesn’t have any finishers to blast our fields.
If i could proc chaos armor more easily that would be a huge boon to survivability in melee range.

Sword has a 12 second base cooldown leap finisher.

I keep getting this weird feeling that this whole thread exists because of a lack of knowledge of the class mechanics and how best to use them in a fight.

There’s also leap finisher on swordsman and blast finisher on torch.

When a reasonable person makes a suggestion thread, the goal is to get feedback to figure out if it’s a good idea and how it can be improved. This guy clearly just wants something changed in the game and doesn’t seem interested in a constructive conversation. It’s very disrespectful to others and the time they’ve taken trying to advance the discussion.

ileap’s finisher is worthless because it requires the clone to be alive. Which it RARELY is in pvp. There’s no clone damage mitigation like there is in pve.

And a ileap finisher on my swordsman phantasm. How does chaos armor on my phantasm help m y survivability.

As far as I’m concerned, Sword has no way of getting chaos armor. But I should say, has no RELIABLE way of getting chaos armor. In PvP, it is only RELIABLE with staff.

I just wanted to say that opposition on this thread seems so focused on attacking my knowledge base that you’re blind to what the real issue is. Everyone wants to prove that they know more than me, or in some way to dismantle my argument by saying that I don’t know about mesmer. And it seems to me the goal is simply to bring me down a notch below you, because my name is Hot Boy and i stated i’m very experienced and playing at a decent skill level. How dare I exude this much confidence?

For a moment, put your bias against me aside. Think of the practicality of using sword in pvp. Is it a practical choice for anyone wanting to use it primarily in pvp? Are the leap finishers practical? Can chaos armor be reliably attained in pvp? Is any of it practical?

I don’t think it is. It is not even worth mentioning because of how unreliable it is. And I never said sword doesn’t have any leap finishers. I said sword doesn’t have any BLAST finishers, which is accurate. And I said chaos armor is not easy to proc, which is also accurate in a pvp environment.

Please ask yourselves, are you really here because you find some issue with my argument, or do you just find some issue with me?

I think it’s the latter. However, some good points have been raised against changing traits, or adding runes/sigils because of how it could affect other builds, but I haven’t seen any really valid reasons of why sword is already a good pvp weapon to use primarily and doesn’t need any buffs. On paper, lots of the features sound good. It has a gap closer that can be used as a finisher. But the clone dies almost instantly making the skill extremely unreliable. It has a phantasm that can proc chaos armor on itself. It sounds very cool, but it is not practical by any means in an actual pvp environment, because chaos armor on the clone does nothing for me. It even has a boon strip! That is on the last attack of the auto chain, which you will be hard pressed to finish an auto chain in an actual pvp environment on anyone.

So really, what is your argument against? Is it against me or is it against my ideas for sword? Because to me, it seems that you dislike me, so you feel inclined to play devil’s advocate. Because the features of sword that sound amazing on paper, are far from practical in any real pvp environment.

No, the opposition in this thread is pointing out the mesmer is fine and capable of the things you’re complaining about, you just clearly don’t know how to execute them properly to handle it. You’re complaining about the leap clone dying, but any good mesmer knows how to do leaps reliably without any issues. You’re complaining about how chaos armor doesn’t help on the sword phantasm, but any good mesmer knows that the leap finisher applies to the mesmer too.

This is a L2P issue. That’s simply what it is. If you knew how to properly use mesmer mechanics, you wouldn’t have the problems you’re experiencing.

Edit: Just for fun…

Hot Boy.7138:

I don’t think it is. It is not even worth mentioning because of how unreliable it is. And I never said sword doesn’t have any leap finishers. I said sword doesn’t have any BLAST finishers, which is accurate.

Hmm…

Hot Boy.7138:

Staff has a skill for chaos armor and it is the only weapon with a leap finisher to proc it from ethreal combo fields.

“and it is the only weapon with a leap finisher”

Yep, only weapon with a leap finisher for sure.