Guild Wars 2

No doubt there are a range of things that can be done but I wanted to throw out at least two suggestion that relate directly to one of the issues the devs acknowledged in their Ready Up, which is clone/phantasm not functioning mechanically within the context of large scale fights, or anything with heavy AoE/cleave AA spam. So to start,

• Phantasms spawn with an invuln buff that lasts from summon, and starts ticking on the initiation of their first attack. The buff starts counting down from that point until the end of their first attack cycle.

What this does is allow a iBezerker to spawn, run to range, and do his initial spin through an AoE heavy zerg. Or for an iWarden to spawn amidst an enemy stack and spin for DPS and reflects, without instantly being destroyed.

• The reasoning this change needs to happen is simply because Phantasms make up so much of a Mesmers damage output. Compare Meteor Shower to iWarden. The former deals thousands of damage per meteor to multiple targets over a large area on a 30s cd. The latter a few thousand damage (assuming they stay in it for the whole duration) to max targets 5 on a 25s cd. Now consider, after a successful cast, if the meteors could be destroyed by other attacks what that would mean for the elementalist. For the mesmer it currently means you ought not even cast your fifth weapon skill. With this in mind, given the first suggestion, an invuln buff on phantasm spawn would turn at least one phantasm into a functioning AoE skill like anyone else expects their attacks to work (potentially dealing damage for the duration of their effect) without making the mesmer anywhere near as potent or powerful as the pinnacle of AoE damage, which is the elementalist.

• Second idea, traitable raw aoe damage on clone death (just like our condi traits). That way spawned clones can be used to tag amidst the the chaos of a large battle. I’m not talking damage on par with mind wrack in a zerk build, but even a few hundred damage vs 5 targets means the mesmer gets his share of bags after providing veil/portal duty.

Would love iZerker to be cast like Whirlwind Attack, but only the phantasm moves, but I guess people would hate it, because you don’t need line of sight to cast phantasms…

A lot of people are suggesting main hand pistol with AoE damage, but I can’t recall any pistol animations with AoE attacks. Maybe we can just imply its a MIB pistol that blast things off haha.

I think clone death trait with direct damage is pretty cool. Could potentially make scepter auto a bit more viable in hybrid build, although scepter has a weird role in mesmer.

Krispera.5087:

Would love iZerker to be cast like Whirlwind Attack, but only the phantasm moves, but I guess people would hate it, because you don’t need line of sight to cast phantasms…

You absolutely need LoS to cast phantasms. You didn’t used to, and it was a wonderful time, but that was within the first 6 months of the game iirc.

Fay.2357:

Krispera.5087:

Would love iZerker to be cast like Whirlwind Attack, but only the phantasm moves, but I guess people would hate it, because you don’t need line of sight to cast phantasms…

You absolutely need LoS to cast phantasms. You didn’t used to, and it was a wonderful time, but that was within the first 6 months of the game iirc.

Considering it was crazy talk, I took him to mean run up and cast it in front of them. It’d be a ranged projectile, not a phantasm.

honestly we need non ai aoe as our ai get broken way to often.so yeah i would like to be able to trait for non ai aoe in a way. glamour was strong as it was pretty much our only non ai build out there and it was extreemly powerful in wvw. i wish we could get something like this back. anet overreacted with the nerf as they sisnt realize that they destroyed our only aoe build we had. now i play mainly necro as i really love wvwv and no utility bot is not fun at all. on my necro i am not forced to use minions, im also not forced to be condi. i go full power and have tons of aoe. thats what the mes is lacking an option to spec for a zerg situation. we need traits that allow us to deal more dmg to multiple targets and not just 1 single one. also our dmg sustain is quiet bad if we dont have like 2 phantasms out. stop the ai dependancy and mes can actually shine again.
i mean look at it …most of our bugs are ai related. then let me at least spec around it. give me a wvw build.
how about going into the direction of punisher instead of veilbot?
hexes for example…something like that. or something that changes glamours or turns our clones into something else …just stop the ai!

Things i would like to see to make Mesmer more viable for dps without to large effect on 1v1 potential

-Aoe cap on sword 3>5 on the #1 and #2 skills
-Retal on blurr frenzy is dumb remove it :P
-Self shatter gives might with trait (would buff 1v1 shatter too but this just makes sense)
-Some changes to Gs #3 doesnt have to be that big jsut a change
-a buff to a offhand on the Mesmer they all suck for Aoe suggest something like torch offhand ’s phantasm explodes on death
-Null field unblockable

not the biggest differences but some that would be nice to have.

I love those ideas. Especially the damage on clone death one. It’s something I’ve been thinking about for a while now.
The invuln thing is great as well!

I wish they didn’t need glamours into the ground. I mean necros have wells as their primary zerg utility, so why can’t they revert the nerfs to confusion and blinding beffudlement so glamour mesmer have a similar damage potential to that of a well necro?

Of all the TREM classes, mesmer would be the easiest one to bring to GWEN status, followed by grenade engineer. I doubt Rangers and thieves will ever have the AoE tools to really be great in zergs I’m afraid.

The first idea is just straight up Over the top.
You’re not asking for a buff here, you’re basically asking for an end to a lot of counterplay.
While this may be a good idea for wvwvw since no balance takes place there,
it’s a completely awful idea for skill based PVP.

Darnis.4056:

The first idea is just straight up Over the top.
You’re not asking for a buff here, you’re basically asking for an end to a lot of counterplay.
While this may be a good idea for wvwvw since no balance takes place there,
it’s a completely awful idea for skill based PVP.

What are you talking about? Nobody kills a phantasm before its first attack. That’s the only thing that making it spawn invuln changes. You can still blind or LoS the cast of the phantasm, you can still dodge the attack of the phantasm, you just can’t kill it within the first few seconds of its life…which isn’t done anyway.

I’m fine with anything that makes mesmer more viable in raids as long as it doesnt make mesmer become another ‘’spam aoes to win’’ prof like guardians and warriors, but sadly areanent can’t be kitten d with ’’WvW’’ because ‘’its supposed to be unbalanced’’. Pathetic to fully ignore the biggest part of your game and put the full focus on a game mode that has been going on for 2 years now, which is really boring and only promotes AI play.

BlackDevil.9268:

I’m fine with anything that makes mesmer more viable in raids as long as it doesnt make mesmer become another ‘’spam aoes to win’’ prof like guardians and warriors, but sadly areanent can’t be kitten d with ’’WvW’’ because ‘’its supposed to be unbalanced’’. Pathetic to fully ignore the biggest part of your game and put the full focus on a game mode that has been going on for 2 years now, which is really boring and only promotes AI play.

My thoughts on aoe:

Make mantra of pain aoe on target.
Boost mind stab in some way: radius, damage, utility, etc

Now you’ve got some quality long range power aoe, particularly with mantra of pain supplementing shatter combos such as mirror blade —> iZerker —> instant shatter on target.

Make daze mantra aoe on target.
Make disruptor’s sustainment into a strong aoe healing pulse on interrupt centered on you, no icd.

Now you’ve got the option for strong long range aoe support that supplements the other options we already have available.

Make Master of Misdirection cause confusion to do 50% more damage as well as last 33% longer
Combine Persisting Enchantments and Glamour Mastery into one trait

Now glamour builds are viable again.

^ Love all of those ideas Pyr…err Fay!

Might have to move MoMisdirection up a notch to a Master trait though.

That would make mantra of distraction pretty op so would probably need a nerf. Maybe instead of 1 second make it 0.25 sec daze so its used for interrupt only? Or as suggested long time ago, trait that makes mantra’s aoe.

As for the confusion part, maybe. I personally don’t like condition builds and glamour builds were fun, but so skill less and boring.

The healing one surely can need a buff, combined with signet cd decrease. If signet of inspiration would be 30 sec cd and had a slightly better passive effect it would open a lot variations in mesmer play.

Darnis.4056:

Fay.2357:

Darnis.4056:

The first idea is just straight up Over the top.
You’re not asking for a buff here, you’re basically asking for an end to a lot of counterplay.
While this may be a good idea for wvwvw since no balance takes place there,
it’s a completely awful idea for skill based PVP.

What are you talking about? Nobody kills a phantasm before its first attack. That’s the only thing that making it spawn invuln changes. You can still blind or LoS the cast of the phantasm, you can still dodge the attack of the phantasm, you just can’t kill it within the first few seconds of its life…which isn’t done anyway.

I kill the phantasm or CC it before an attack sometimes when I don’t have a choice; ie. no dodge and I’m too far from the mesmer to CC him.

In high skill gameplay this is not uncommon.
Balancing the game for the lowest skill gameplay where this is impossible is silly.
I realize this is a PVE oriented subforum, but still come on guys, I main mesmer this is blatently OP.

Buffing Mantra of Pain to do instant undodgeable AoE damage is also ridiculous especially with the damage potential and the 3-5 second cooldown.

And the fact that it deals pretty kitten damage, has an immense long casting time and requires an utility slot which of 2/3 are already taken leaving 1 open for w/e you want.

I do, however, agree with you on the phantasm part. I could see a grandmaster trait granting this so it wont kitten up in small scale as no one is gonna take that probably.

Fay.2357:

Darnis.4056:

The first idea is just straight up Over the top.
You’re not asking for a buff here, you’re basically asking for an end to a lot of counterplay.
While this may be a good idea for wvwvw since no balance takes place there,
it’s a completely awful idea for skill based PVP.

What are you talking about? Nobody kills a phantasm before its first attack. That’s the only thing that making it spawn invuln changes. You can still blind or LoS the cast of the phantasm, you can still dodge the attack of the phantasm, you just can’t kill it within the first few seconds of its life…which isn’t done anyway.

I kill the phantasm or CC it before an attack sometimes when I don’t have a choice; ie. no dodge and I’m too far from the mesmer to CC him.

In high skill gameplay this is not uncommon.
Balancing the game for the lowest skill gameplay where this is impossible is silly.
I realize this is a PVE oriented subforum, but still come on guys, I main mesmer this is blatently OP.

Buffing Mantra of Pain to do instant undodgeable AoE damage is also ridiculous especially with the damage potential and the 3-5 second cooldown.

The problem with your Meteor Shower and iZerker analogy is that phantasms aren’t one-shot skills, they’re more like minions. A closer analogy would be if Meteor Shower lasted forever until killed and you could stack up to three of them in the same spot.

Also mesmers can have up to four phantasms slotted at any given time, so the ele equivalent would need a Meteor Shower for every attunement to be equivalent.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The problem with your Meteor Shower and iZerker analogy is that phantasms aren’t one-shot skills, they’re more like minions. A closer analogy would be if Meteor Shower lasted forever until killed and you could stack up to three of them in the same spot.

Also mesmers can have up to four phantasms slotted at any given time, so the ele equivalent would need a Meteor Shower for every attunement to be equivalent.

Two .. phantasms.. slotted at any time if you’re refering to the kittenty Utility skills no one uses which aren’t damage , then you can have those.

With the Retaliation on phantasms minor trait, you can still cause a good bit of damage if they try to take it out before its attack. At least, with a power build, which is what I’m assuming given the use of phantasms.

Darnis.4056:

The first idea is just straight up Over the top.
You’re not asking for a buff here, you’re basically asking for an end to a lot of counterplay.
While this may be a good idea for wvwvw since no balance takes place there,
it’s a completely awful idea for skill based PVP.

Over the top? All I’m asking for is for an activated skill’s attack to go through/activate. You haven’t thought this through. Imagine if Lava Font could be destroyed by warrior/guardian AA, or a necros wells destroyed by a Lava Font. That’s what we’re talking about here. There’s no counterplay here. There’s no play at all. It’s pointless summoning a phantasm in a large scale fight (hell, even in a PvP match a phantasm can get wiped out instantly in the wrong situation) because the phantasm dies before he can land his attack.

Darnis.4056:

I kill the phantasm or CC it before an attack sometimes when I don’t have a choice; ie. no dodge and I’m too far from the mesmer to CC him.

I don’t believe you. Show me some recorded gameplay of you actually doing that and I’ll believe you.

Darnis.4056:

In high skill gameplay this is not uncommon.
Balancing the game for the lowest skill gameplay where this is impossible is silly.

Not to toot my own horn, but my gameplay is high skill. I have more experience than almost any player in this entire game, and I don’t see anyone killing phantasms before they get an attack off, with the exception of the iWarden…but that one is a little ‘special’.

Darnis.4056:

I realize this is a PVE oriented subforum, but still come on guys, I main mesmer this is blatently OP.

Hehe. Are you actually serious right now?

Darnis.4056:

Buffing Mantra of Pain to do instant undodgeable AoE damage is also ridiculous especially with the damage potential and the 3-5 second cooldown.

Is it really ridiculous? Something that you’d be forced to spam nonstop to get any good damage out of it on a class that almost completely lacks any form of good long range non-illusion aoe? Compare it to something like lava font…spammable, aoe, 1200 range, high damage. I think you’re very wrong.

Fay.2357
Rank Highest rank Account name Character Wins Loses Win% Server
No data found

Rank Highest rank Account name Character Wins Loses Win% Server
68 32 Darnis.4056 Pink Puma 958 771 55.41%

and Teammate who’s banned for 3 days (thats why rank is 9000 Highest rank still works)

Rank Highest rank Account name Character Wins Loses Win% Server
9000 19 cirocinmycup.6954 Puma Has Micro 319 206 60.76%

Re?

Dondagora.9645:

With the Retaliation on phantasms minor trait, you can still cause a good bit of damage if they try to take it out before its attack. At least, with a power build, which is what I’m assuming given the use of phantasms.

Keep in mind we’re talking about improving Mesmer AoE, and looking at the issue of illusions/phantasms failing mechanically (dieing instantly to no effect) in large scale, or just heavy aoe/cleave combat. You’re suggesting the exchange for a few hundred retal damage in place of the thousands over multiple targets for their primary attack with a minor trait is ‘a good bit of damage’. If that becomes the purpose of the phantasm summon, then we’ve fallen miserably short of any acceptable standard in this debate.

Phantasm mesmers aren’t meant to be the AoE hate machines that Ele’s are, devs have said this,

They’re looking to Slightly increase damage and provide maybe some small changes, Not remove counterplay and overbuff mesmers.

Darnis.4056:

Fay.2357
Rank Highest rank Account name Character Wins Loses Win% Server
No data found

Rank Highest rank Account name Character Wins Loses Win% Server
68 32 Darnis.4056 Pink Puma 958 771 55.41%

and Teammate who’s banned for 3 days (thats why rank is 9000 Highest rank still works)

Rank Highest rank Account name Character Wins Loses Win% Server
9000 19 cirocinmycup.6954 Puma Has Micro 319 206 60.76%

Re?

Solo

Wins 134
Loses 89
Win percent 60.09%
Highest rank 52
Time highest rank 2014-04-25 12:00:01
In top 1000 since 2014-01-30 13:48:57
Current rank 9000
Characters Pyros Everywhere,

Team, only queuing solo, never with a team

Wins 55
Loses 36
Win percent 60.44%
Highest rank 191
Time highest rank 2014-05-13 06:00:01
In top 1000 since 2014-05-11 09:00:01
Current rank 9000
Characters Pyros Everywhere,

I haven’t played pvp for 3 or so months, and haven’t played gw2 at all for the past several weeks, because Dragon Nest is more fun to me right now. The only class I play is mesmer, every single game.

Darnis.4056:

Phantasm mesmers aren’t meant to be the AoE hate machines that Ele’s are, devs have said this,

They’re looking to Slightly increase damage and provide maybe some small changes, Not remove counterplay and overbuff mesmers.

Great. You’ve shared your opinion. Given you’re also going off topic by throwing your rank around and trying to chest thump your way to being right, please change your posting attitude or leave the thread.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Darnis.4056:

Phantasm mesmers aren’t meant to be the AoE hate machines that Ele’s are, devs have said this,

They’re looking to Slightly increase damage and provide maybe some small changes, Not remove counterplay and overbuff mesmers.

Great. You’ve shared your opinion. Given you’re also going off topic by throwing your rank around and trying to chest thump your way to being right, please change your posting attitude or leave the thread.

I didn’t chest thump; I provided this because I was asked for video confirmation.
I have no intention of leaving this thread, and will continue to contradict your wild fantasies. You are not the gate keeper for posting, in fact you’re far from it.

Fay you have like 300 games total from both ques.. And even then they seem to be so long ago that they’re not recorded on any leaderboard. Which is cool I guess, but it also means your rank isn’t really legitimate it’s just the rank you were able to achieve with the first 12 games.

My posts have been completely on topic, the only thing they haven’t been is in agreement with your suggestions.

Darnis.4056:

Phantasm mesmers aren’t meant to be the AoE hate machines that Ele’s are, devs have said this,

This is obvious. The problem is not that phantasm mesmers can’t provide aoe, the problem is that no mesmer build that exists can effectively provide aoe pressure in a group situation in any way, shape, or form.

Darnis.4056:

They’re looking to Slightly increase damage and provide maybe some small changes, Not remove counterplay and overbuff mesmers.

Firstly, none of these suggestions would remove counterplay or overbuff mesmers. Secondly, last I checked you weren’t a dev. How do you suppose to know what they aim to do?

ermm could we stay on the topic? i dont care what rank u are. topic here is to make mesmer viable in raids which we arent atm. we need aoe dmg again in some way and i still dont thing ai will ever provide that. we need a change to our glamours or a buff to confusion or something that helps us in wvw. spvp is not the issue, we are good at 1v1 and thats about it.

Because This post is a reply to the Ready up 16# Dev chat. That’s why.

Read my other comments; Removing the ability to CC/kill the phantasms before they attack is Removing counter play.

Just because you don’t like Replies to “your thread” doesn’t give you any right to tell people to leave.

Again; I am On topic. I was asked for Proof of skill. No need to further attack me on this basis. If you were not interested in an open discussion you should not have posted on the forums you should have posted on your refrigerator.

Darnis.4056:

Fay you have like 300 games total from both ques..

So?

Darnis.4056:

And even then they seem to be so long ago that they’re not recorded on any leaderboard.

Or you could look at the handy dates included with those to see when it was.

Darnis.4056:

Which is cool I guess, but it also means your rank isn’t really legitimate it’s just the rank you were able to achieve with the first 12 games.

I mean, if you want to think that, go for it. Those records show that I maintain my rank throughout more than the initial bump. If the leaderboards had actually reset properly when they reset, you’d also see my win % being closer to 80%, not 60%.

In any event, I don’t have to defend myself to you. You’re wrong, and I’m right, and the devs will listen to neither of us, nor anyone else here, so it doesn’t matter.

omg ignore darnis please he doesnt get it!
ok baaaack on the topic!!!

i think the idea of clonedeath dealing aoe dmg is not bad as our phantasms get bashed quiet often in the middle of a zerg, but there needs to be other options than ai. our ai is buggy and the only phantasm that is good for such a thing as clonedeath would be the zerker and swordsman all the others are around u wich means u would have to go too close to the zerg in order for the aoe to trigger right. clones in general die often as they spawn so yeah we need a non ai option here.

lets see:
well a new glam trait could help
mimic rework into something new maybe
illusion of live rework
a trait turning mantras into something groundtargetable
just something… something non ai which u can spec for if u play wvw.
glam was good cause it was non ai,had high risk cause no condi cleanse, less toughness, no stealth, no power, but it was our only true wvw build. thats where anet destroyed the wvw mes with a nerf that is 50% less dmg plus icd…. now we need a non ai wvw aoe oriented build back.

Fay.2357:

Krispera.5087:

Would love iZerker to be cast like Whirlwind Attack, but only the phantasm moves, but I guess people would hate it, because you don’t need line of sight to cast phantasms…

You absolutely need LoS to cast phantasms. You didn’t used to, and it was a wonderful time, but that was within the first 6 months of the game iirc.

Yeah I knew those times, but I was talking the situation when you could be behind them and still be able to cast a phantasm, which is still possible.

I wanted more a cleaving phantasm projectile (crazy talk named by Ross Biddle). Yah, I know, it’s crazy talk. I just wish we had better AoE.

And also (not concerned by Pyro or Ross in this thread), can you… please stop the toxicity in mesmer forum. I’m posting less and less in this forum because everyone is being leet (lel) and judging everyone. Let’s be more helpful and constructive. Not only top 10 world mesmer have something to say.

Let’s keep GW2 casual. If you want hardcore, go back to WoW or start Wildstar.

I think making Mantra of Pain into AoE is a good solution, the damage it deals isn’t particularly impressive and 2.75s cast time is hideous. No one takes this utility in most situations except traited healings (and even with that isn’t great as well). Kitten we even have better mantra options when looking at empowering mantra. Creating a useless utility is just bad design.

Btw how well do you guys think about offensive interruption traits (HS and CI) + counter blade (riposte’s subsequent skill) against zerg? I never know how well it’ll work in such chaotic situations. Is it like a cleaving skill that only hit up to 3 or 5?

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Btw how well do you guys think about offensive interruption traits (HS and CI) + counter blade (riposte’s subsequent skill) against zerg? I never know how well it’ll work in such chaotic situations. Is it like a cleaving skill that only hit up to 3 or 5?

Those traits work well, unlimited in effect as long as your opponents don’t have stability and you have a good delivery mechanism. The mechanism for our AoE interrupts is where limitations come into play. Counter blade will work on any opponent hit in the projectile path. GS#5 is unlimited, Focus pull is unlimited, and Imbued Diversion and Chaos Storm are limited to 5 opponents.

Yeah I was wondering the extend to counter blade against stacking zerg. If it can hit everyone in the projectile path then potentially you can interrupt/immobilize half a zerg who’s charging towards your zerg?

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Yeah I was wondering the extend to counter blade against stacking zerg. If it can hit everyone in the projectile path then potentially you can interrupt/immobilize half a zerg who’s charging towards your zerg?

It’s a piercing projectile so it will daze anyone it hits in it’s path, but it has a rather small AoE bubble (which is the biggest issue) and only a range of 900 so you have to be rather close. But yes, it can be effective.

Fay.2357:

My thoughts on aoe:

Make mantra of pain aoe on target.
Boost mind stab in some way: radius, damage, utility, etc

Now you’ve got some quality long range power aoe, particularly with mantra of pain supplementing shatter combos such as mirror blade —> iZerker --> instant shatter on target.

Make daze mantra aoe on target.
Make disruptor’s sustainment into a strong aoe healing pulse on interrupt centered on you, no icd.

Now you’ve got the option for strong long range aoe support that supplements the other options we already have available.

Make Master of Misdirection cause confusion to do 50% more damage as well as last 33% longer
Combine Persisting Enchantments and Glamour Mastery into one trait

Now glamour builds are viable again.

I like these ideas. Sure maybe some balancing would be needed, but it would be so much better to have options again as a Mesmer.

skcamow.3527:

Counter blade will work on any opponent hit in the projectile path. GS#5 is unlimited, Focus pull is unlimited, and Imbued Diversion and Chaos Storm are limited to 5 opponents.

No no no no no.

Nothing is unlimited unless it’s a line aoe. Counterblade is 5 targets, so is illusionary wave and into the void.

Chaos storm is 5 targets per pulse, but pulses multiple times. Imbued diversion is 5 targets per clone.

Fay.2357:

skcamow.3527:

Counter blade will work on any opponent hit in the projectile path. GS#5 is unlimited, Focus pull is unlimited, and Imbued Diversion and Chaos Storm are limited to 5 opponents.

No no no no no.

Nothing is unlimited unless it’s a line aoe. Counterblade is 5 targets, so is illusionary wave and into the void.

Chaos storm is 5 targets per pulse, but pulses multiple times. Imbued diversion is 5 targets per clone.

Hm, on focus pull and illusionary wave, I’m sure you’re probably right if you’re posting, but I’ll re-test to validate.

Absolutely right about counter blade, my mistake – forgot piercing projectiles are limited to five.

In terms of phantasms surviving longer to do more damage, I was wondering about the idea of being able to swap out an F1-F4 kind of skill to get either a heal or an invuln for all phantasms.

Another possibility is a new elite skill that would buff/invuln all phantasms.

Then the “counterplay” here is waiting out these effects and knowing that the Mesmer can’t use them too often.

As much as most people don’t seem to use it, I think Ether Signet is a really interesting healing skill that allows for an offensive boost (at a tradeoff). It would be interesting to see another kind of tradeoff decision that would let you keep phantasms alive to do more damage.

You still have to choose to use Berserker or Warden to do AoE phantasm damage, but it’s an option.

Darnis.4056:

The first idea is just straight up Over the top.
You’re not asking for a buff here, you’re basically asking for an end to a lot of counterplay.
While this may be a good idea for wvwvw since no balance takes place there,
it’s a completely awful idea for skill based PVP.

Completely agreed, i dont think people realize how much counterplay this dissolves.

selan.8354:

omg ignore darnis please he doesnt get it!
ok baaaack on the topic!!!

i think the idea of clonedeath dealing aoe dmg is not bad as our phantasms get bashed quiet often in the middle of a zerg, but there needs to be other options than ai. our ai is buggy and the only phantasm that is good for such a thing as clonedeath would be the zerker and swordsman all the others are around u wich means u would have to go too close to the zerg in order for the aoe to trigger right. clones in general die often as they spawn so yeah we need a non ai option here.

lets see:
well a new glam trait could help
mimic rework into something new maybe
illusion of live rework
a trait turning mantras into something groundtargetable
just something… something non ai which u can spec for if u play wvw.
glam was good cause it was non ai,had high risk cause no condi cleanse, less toughness, no stealth, no power, but it was our only true wvw build. thats where anet destroyed the wvw mes with a nerf that is 50% less dmg plus icd…. now we need a non ai wvw aoe oriented build back.

Actually pink puma is an extremely good mesmer and knows what he/she is talking about. but yea, continue to ignore logic and continue on.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Darnis.4056:

The first idea is just straight up Over the top.
You’re not asking for a buff here, you’re basically asking for an end to a lot of counterplay.
While this may be a good idea for wvwvw since no balance takes place there,
it’s a completely awful idea for skill based PVP.

Completely agreed, i dont think people realize how much counterplay this dissolves.

I’d love to see just the tiniest bit of logic and/or facts to back up your claims…

Reduce (unnerf) CD on Chaos Storm.

Both suggestions by Ross are great.

Invulnerability window on phantasm summon sounds good, but it should only be applied to Phantasmal Berserker and end immediately after the first attack. I just don’t like the idea of duellists and Wardens being invulnerable for the durations of their long attacks as that would definitely have an adverse effect on smaller encounters. However, Berserker has a short attack duration and is almost never killed before attacking anyway in small encounters, so would be fine for this buff. It would be nice to see the AoE phantasm actually perform its tasks in larger battles.

I’d happily see Crippling Dissipation replaced with a direct damage on clone death trait.

I like most ideas in this thread – I would suggest the phantasm invuln could be changed to “can’t die” for 5s (ish) like engineers AED. Leaves it vulnerable to interrupts and doesn’t require people to kill it twice if they do hit it.

blitzkrieg.2451:

selan.8354:

omg ignore darnis please he doesnt get it!
ok baaaack on the topic!!!

i think the idea of clonedeath dealing aoe dmg is not bad as our phantasms get bashed quiet often in the middle of a zerg, but there needs to be other options than ai. our ai is buggy and the only phantasm that is good for such a thing as clonedeath would be the zerker and swordsman all the others are around u wich means u would have to go too close to the zerg in order for the aoe to trigger right. clones in general die often as they spawn so yeah we need a non ai option here.

lets see:
well a new glam trait could help
mimic rework into something new maybe
illusion of live rework
a trait turning mantras into something groundtargetable
just something… something non ai which u can spec for if u play wvw.
glam was good cause it was non ai,had high risk cause no condi cleanse, less toughness, no stealth, no power, but it was our only true wvw build. thats where anet destroyed the wvw mes with a nerf that is 50% less dmg plus icd…. now we need a non ai wvw aoe oriented build back.

Actually pink puma is an extremely good mesmer and knows what he/she is talking about. but yea, continue to ignore logic and continue on.

blitz/darnis. like i said i dont care at all if he is good or not, this is not the discussion here. i dont care about spvp or tpvp performance nor do i care about anyones playstile or skill. i care about this thread that is about mesmers big isue atm called aoe. and fay and many others have brought up some valid points and good ideas, so can we please stay on the topic?

Simonoly.4352:

Both suggestions by Ross are great.

Invulnerability window on phantasm summon sounds good, but it should only be applied to Phantasmal Berserker and end immediately after the first attack. I just don’t like the idea of duellists and Wardens being invulnerable for the durations of their long attacks as that would definitely have an adverse effect on smaller encounters. However, Berserker has a short attack duration and is almost never killed before attacking anyway in small encounters, so would be fine for this buff. It would be nice to see the AoE phantasm actually perform its tasks in larger battles.

I’d happily see Crippling Dissipation replaced with a direct damage on clone death trait.

hm definitely a better aoe option for shatters and clonedeath. i dont think phantasms are the solution at all. if shatters want to be more viable, then we need a way to viable shatter in groupfights without having to spec into ip. maybe make clones invul when they go for the shatter. u can still dodge them though, but at least they would reach the target.
i still think though we need something non ai in order to be viable in raids.

selan.8354:

Simonoly.4352:

Both suggestions by Ross are great.

Invulnerability window on phantasm summon sounds good, but it should only be applied to Phantasmal Berserker and end immediately after the first attack. I just don’t like the idea of duellists and Wardens being invulnerable for the durations of their long attacks as that would definitely have an adverse effect on smaller encounters. However, Berserker has a short attack duration and is almost never killed before attacking anyway in small encounters, so would be fine for this buff. It would be nice to see the AoE phantasm actually perform its tasks in larger battles.

I’d happily see Crippling Dissipation replaced with a direct damage on clone death trait.

hm definitely a better aoe option for shatters and clonedeath. i dont think phantasms are the solution at all. if shatters want to be more viable, then we need a way to viable shatter in groupfights without having to spec into ip. maybe make clones invul when they go for the shatter. u can still dodge them though, but at least they would reach the target.
i still think though we need something non ai in order to be viable in raids.

Yep I would definitely choose a non-ai source if possible. Buffing of Glamour traits would be a nice start. I think Anet mentioned that they want to change Mind Stab to provide better AoE options.