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Posted by: Levetty.1279

Levetty.1279

Also in this update, we are implementing initial attacks on several phantasm skills,

Was happy when I saw this, the actual execution has a lot to be desired but its a step in the right direction.

Hopefully in a year when they release the next balance patch they buff those up and add the other weapons.

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Posted by: Allarius.5670

Allarius.5670

Though not called out in the patch notes anywhere I could find, Phantasmal Duelist is now a 0.5 sec cast time in addition to the attack.

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Posted by: SlimChance.6593

SlimChance.6593

Arcane Thievery: The recharge of this skill has been reduced from 35 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

Awesome!!! now it can fail more often!

Eccho, Echo Oread – Mesmers (Yak’s Bend)
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Posted by: Morfedel.4165

Morfedel.4165

What I found interesting is the auto attacks now built in phantasms. Which means that now, if you are casting phantasms while cloaked like in pvp or wvw, which I do, you are now going to break your cloak by casting them.

EDIT: Unless of course the attack comes from the phantasm instead of you? Working, can’t test it yet.

It comes from the phantasm. No idea if it breaks stealth.

No it doesnt, just went and checked, the attack comes from you, thus breaking stealth if it hits.

EDIT: luckily the pMage attack is radius 240 and pWarlock attack is range 600, so you might be able to avoid those breaking stealth. the pDuelist is range 1200 though, so….

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Posted by: eldenbri.1059

eldenbri.1059

I like this patch. It has more change in it than I anticipated, and yet the build I play is totally viable and actually seems a little better.

There’s a bit to experiment with in terms of the changes – particularly the iMage phantasm cast. I think getting in that close at the end of the cast is going to be a real challenge, but it has a payoff. So there’s something different to work on, but it’s not because the build I was playing was destroyed and I have to do something different to be viable.

In a quick bit of WvW roaming tonight, there didn’t seem to be any completely new and overpowered builds. I’m happy to see Ranger pets get improvement. I played ranger for a while. I’m not bothered by Revenants getting alacrity. Hopefully the patch was okay for most folks.

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Posted by: Takashiro.8701

Takashiro.8701

They stated that they wanted to give iberzerker and iwarden this “special thing on summon” too, but weren’t satisfied with how it turned out and decided to postpone it to another balance patch. Hopefully we don’t have to wait too long.

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Posted by: Eponet.4829

Eponet.4829

They stated that they wanted to give iberzerker and iwarden this “special thing on summon” too, but weren’t satisfied with how it turned out and decided to postpone it to another balance patch. Hopefully we don’t have to wait too long.

Well, seeing as they only balance patch once a season, I think we will.

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Terrile patch!

Basically the Phantasm stuff is a nerf in disguise, but ppl are lapping it up like it’s actually useful. Utter crap! I can’t think of anything less impactful they could have added to both Pistol and Staff Phants! lol! Truly unbelievable to call that “added pressure!” Someone is pulling our leg with these changes. It’s a nerf people, a nerf to casting Phants from stealth! Nothing else!

The only one remotely useful is the Torch Phantasm, but again it’ll break your stealth. In that case it doesn’t matter though, because it can actually be used very well offensively in a standard condie shatter build. This will almost certainly be nerfed when Anet figures out that one of the changes to Phants actually was somewhat more useful than just the intended nerf.

As someone else said, the .5 second Evade on the blocks is great, but about 4 years overdue. Still nice, but not highly noticeable.

WoA is like, really? lol!

What a waste of resources, it’s so obvious that their main motivation behind this patch was to basically not change anything. The obvious problem classes didn’t get any nerfs what so ever, and build diversity wasn’t touched even one bit for us, and I venture to say most others as well.

This was a zero-sum fluff patch to pretend they did something, and it even failed at that.

Pretty sure I’m going to take a hiatus, this lack of passion to improve the game on the part of the company running it, is really disheartening.

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Posted by: NICENIKESHOE.7128

NICENIKESHOE.7128

too busy to try things out, but personally don’t enjoy having mediocre damage added to phantasm cast. It makes stealth more gimmicky and so-so damage doesn’t really make up for the lack of dps pressure on glass builds that rely on stealth.

Oh well, can’t have it all I guess.

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Posted by: Menaka.5092

Menaka.5092

“Arcane Thievery: The recharge of this skill has been reduced from 35 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.”

Why not in the rest of the game?

It would clearly break the finely tuned balance in PVE and WvW. /s

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Posted by: Amadan.9451

Amadan.9451

well I for once am happy about these changes, especially to phantasms and never use stealth in pvp anyway, maybe i should, but i don’t.

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Posted by: tobascodagama.2961

tobascodagama.2961

Permastealth phantasm builds are half the reason the Mesmer changelog is usually nerf nerf nerf, so anything that makes them fall out of meta is fine by me.

Amberley Avalen – Charr Mesmer
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

^ lol

true true dat perma stealth power shatter phantasm FoTM stuff is getting old…

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Posted by: SlimChance.6593

SlimChance.6593

Phantasmal Duelist: In addition to its previous effect, this skill now fires a slow-moving homing bullet that cripples its target if it hits.
Phantasmal Mage: In addition to its previous effect, this skill now burns nearby foes when activated.
Phantasmal Warlock: In addition to its previous effect, this skill now also fires Winds of Chaos projectiles at up to 3 unique targets within a radius of 600 of the caster.

Since the iWarden’s attack is stationary, I kind of think cripple (thinking a asmall AOE cripple around the target) would be better on Warden (focus). OH Pistol already has a stun (Magic Bullet) to help iDuelist hit its target.

And the cripple would also help the focus’s “Into the Void” to keep the target in the pull/push area. (either that or the iWarden cast causes immobilize, but I think that would be too much.) (but then I think about ancient seeds or Hunters Mark or ….)

iDuelist cast could be a bullet to cause some initial bleeding, vulnerability or weakness.

Eccho, Echo Oread – Mesmers (Yak’s Bend)
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(edited by SlimChance.6593)

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

I actually think iWarden should be a defensive cast in nature due to the defensive nature of the focus. Possibly causing weakness or blindness, or even giving us prot/regen/aegis when it is cast. Look at the focus as a whole. It provides swiftness to us, cripples enemies, pulls enemies, and can be traited to reflect projectiles to keep us safe. Overall its heavily defensive in nature, so I don’t think an offensive cast on iWarden fits thematically.

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Posted by: Blades Of Fatalis.1279

Blades Of Fatalis.1279

as i mentioned in another post elsewhere, im very unhappy with the pistol phantasms initial attack, partly due to the fact that it reveals you, but more due to the fact that the attack is very poorly aligned with the rest of the weapon. first things first: it applies cripple, which has always been more of a greatsword thing, (trait which makes greatsword attacks cripple and the phantasmal berserker crippling foes) so it makes very little since to be on pistol. Secondly the damage is completely insignificant on the attack, making it seem almost purely designed to reveal you. I could accept this perhaps if the attack made more sense with pistol, for instance being a slow moving daze or a bullet that applied say 2 stacks of bleeding or another damaging condi as pistol is a very offensive/rupting weapon from what ive seen.

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Posted by: SlimChance.6593

SlimChance.6593

I actually think iWarden should be a defensive cast in nature due to the defensive nature of the focus. Possibly causing weakness or blindness, or even giving us prot/regen/aegis when it is cast. Look at the focus as a whole. It provides swiftness to us, cripples enemies, pulls enemies, and can be traited to reflect projectiles to keep us safe. Overall its heavily defensive in nature, so I don’t think an offensive cast on iWarden fits thematically.

So apparently cripple can’t be used defensively?

Eccho, Echo Oread – Mesmers (Yak’s Bend)
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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

It can, as seen by Temporal Curtain. But I don’t think tying it to iWarden would be a defensive use of it. It doesn’t fit that well, and doesn’t feel defensive when tied to the phantasm. On top of damage, iWarden absorbs and/or reflects projectiles, so it would make sense for its on cast effect to be something else of a similar defensive nature. Which would be something like regen or aegis. Or hell maybe even a mini feedback around you for 2 sec when you cast it

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Posted by: Xaylin.1860

Xaylin.1860

I’ll just leave this old thread about Phantasm skills.

Regarding Warden… I think a Cripple would be perfectly fine but we got Temporal Curtain for that. A short Mirror effect on the Mesmer or something healy would excite me more. A short Immobilze could help setting it up. A small condition removal would be awesome as well but we already got that elsewhere. Not a fan of Regen – we got plenty from Illusionary Inspiration – or Aegis (which I’d rather see in Chaos).

Personally, I’m not too upset about the issue of being revealed when casting Phantasms from stealth. Yes, it makes roaming harder. But it is way less frustrating to play against and will eventually benefit the class.

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Posted by: Mithos.9023

Mithos.9023

For me this new phantasm mechanic looks more like a nerf with reveal than an actual buff. I get where the idea is coming from. Several people discussed something like that, here on the forum, to change the way phantasms work. When I remember correctly the idea was that the Mesmer does the attack the phantasm does now and afterwards just summoning a clone. It was meant to bring more damage to the player and being less reliant on AI as well as to get a better cleave as Mesmer still suffers against multiple enemy’s with your phantasm constantly dying on target death (pve problem).

The effects furthermore seem to be not really strong either, a little bit of cripple or the additional staff out attack, perfect, not that anyone likes the slow attack of staff anyway.

We still don’t know how the other phantasms work out, but from the current situation I would say it doesn’t change any of the core problems. The idea is not that bad but what we got seems totally underwhelming, I wouldn’t mind the reveal if the effect would be worth it.

Last the evade on block is really nice.

We need build and gear-templates!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

^ That is clearly because this was intended as a nerf first, and not the stated goal of “in order to provide a bit more constant pressure on your targets” which is simply put a bunch of baloney. The only attack on a Phantasm that does meet that goal is the Torch one, but the other two are plain and simple nerfs to stealth with absolutely no benefit to the Mesmer for using them.

And the real slap in the face is the ridiculous nature of the Pistol Phantasm attack, being a slow arcing projectile that lands for ridiculously low damage and then applies one of the most meaningless soft CCs/Conditions in the game. (On a weapon set that almost instantly fires one of the best hard CCs in the game for 2s?! Why do I need to Cripple something that I’ve likely already stunned?)

They were trying to make doubly sure that it was going to be worthless. We wouldn’t want to accidentally change the existing meta, where maybe suddenly someone dared to use an OH Pistol! Can’t have that! sigh

Have the guts to call it what it is…it’s a nerf to stealth/phantasm builds, that were (sarcasm mode ON) clearly dominating the current meta (sarcasm mode OFF).

Plain and simple.

The Torch Phantasm spell is actually buff, and is quite decent one actually, but sadly still not enough to get Torch into the meta build. The Staff one, on the other hand, is another bad joke of an attack. (Yes! Just what we asked for! More slow projectile attacks on the Mesmer for Thieves to dance around and ignore! lol!)

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Posted by: MailMail.6534

MailMail.6534

Let’s get a few things out of the way:

  • stealth is an extremely strong mechanic. Some might say it’s a broken one that doesn’t have much place in the game.
  • for this to be some unfair nerf to Mesmer stealth implies that Mesmers use a lot of stealth to begin with. Decoy is really the only “meta” stealth we use in PvP. I would argue that the buff to torch phantasm actually is an overall buff to torch itself despite the “nerf” to Prestige. I will definitely be using it in my condi build next season if it isn’t “hot-fixed” by then…

The only attack on a Phantasm that does meet that goal is the Torch one, but the other two are plain and simple nerfs to stealth with absolutely no benefit to the Mesmer for using them.

This is blatantly false. lol You’re a great poster here, but your use of dramatics isn’t helpful in this case. I’m not going to sit here, lie and say these buffs were HUGE. They were not. They were indeed disappointingly minimal. However, they were definitely overall buffs.

Why do I need to Cripple something that I’ve likely already stunned?)

Because you won’t always have Magic Bullet available for use. It is, indeed, added pressure in the way that not only do you have to worry about a hard CC, but you also must worry about a soft CC. Both attacks add a CC now. This is a buff.

The Staff one, on the other hand, is another bad joke of an attack. (Yes! Just what we asked for! More slow projectile attacks on the Mesmer

Yes, that buff is extremely minimal. That being said, I’ve noticed that when the projectiles do connect, my pWarlock tends to see more 10% dmg increases. Our AA is pretty weak, but I think the bigger issue is that other class AAs are simply too strong. That’s a completely different discussion though.

Have the guts to call it what it is…it’s a nerf to stealth/phantasm builds

What game mode are these stealth/phantasm builds being played? Are you also using PU? If you are talking about balance in regards to the outrageously OP stealth mechanic in WvW roaming, then yes, you are correct that this was an intended [and deserved] nerf.

https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

For me this new phantasm mechanic looks more like a nerf with reveal than an actual buff.

Let’s be honest Anet should have put that change in circa 2013. The fact it went 4 more years w/out being changed is pretty bad.

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Posted by: MailMail.6534

MailMail.6534

My thoughts on the balance for us:

  • Arcane Thievery: lol ok so they reduced the recharge so that we could ineffectively use it more often? Awesome. tbh, when it does work, it feels great. However, I think it needs a total rework still.
  • Lowered CDs on glamours, SoM and pDefender are nice though of little consequence. Definitely makes them more viable in lower end pvp I guess.
  • Time Warp buff is nice for raids/WvW I assume? I’m unfamiliar with those formats. I assume Well of Action is good for getting out 8s of quickness with max boon duration.
  • Love the buffs to our other block skills. I still think pSwordsman should rip 2 boons if his attack surprisingly hits.
  • After so many years, I’m glad to see some improvements to some of our phantasms and look forward to the others getting some buffs as well in the next balance update.

Overall, the buffs were very minimal. Didn’t do much of anything for build diversity and the underlying issues with a lot of our builds. SIGH That being said, I’m not going to complain about the buffs we did get this go around. Maybe stockholm syndrome has crept in, and I’m just happy with whatever Anet gives us at this point! lol

https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

I don’t think we even disagree on most points MailMail, it’s just that I don’t like someone peeing on my head and telling me it’s raining. These attacks are deliberately targeting a cheesy mechanic that I agree with Azukas should probably have been changed years ago.

What will be interesting to see is if they can come up with anything lamer than a slow arcing projectile Cripple for the iZerker, which is probably the most powerful Phantasm to use while stealthed. ;-)

I simply don’t like the dishonesty in being sold what is quite a significant mechanic change, even if somewhat reasonable, as if it’s some awesome buff we’re getting to Phantasms that are still largely greatly underperforming. (Although in the case of Torch I have to agree it is a nice enough buff to warrant the downside. The can definitely not be said for the other two. I too hope we see some more meaningful changes to the severely underused Phantasms like Focus or OH Sword. )

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Posted by: Blades Of Fatalis.1279

Blades Of Fatalis.1279

Btw windwalker I actually normally play with both pistol and torch when roaming, though I do tend to replace torch with shield for yolos.

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Posted by: Xaylin.1860

Xaylin.1860

What will be interesting to see is if they can come up with anything lamer than a slow arcing projectile Cripple for the iZerker, which is probably the most powerful Phantasm to use while stealthed. ;-)

I simply don’t like the dishonesty in being sold what is quite a significant mechanic change, even if somewhat reasonable, as if it’s some awesome buff we’re getting to Phantasms that are still largely greatly underperforming.

Not meaning to be shady, but I’m not even sure they actually considered how this change would affect stealth. But yeah… that slow moving bullet is just plain silly and iWarlock certainly could be more useful as well.

I’m not too mad how this change affects stealth but I’m not roaming. However, a very easy solution would be turning specific skills into two parts, where the effect after using the Illusion would be available for a short period of time. The downside would be a longer cooldown on the Illusion itself.

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Posted by: Silverkey.2078

Silverkey.2078

At the risk of not being very popular, not being able to cast damaging phantasms while remaining in stealth sounds good to me.

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Posted by: LinhZeri.6412

LinhZeri.6412

At the risk of not being very popular, not being able to cast damaging phantasms while remaining in stealth sounds good to me.

Well that maybe true for some of them which is hilarious as Phantasm Berserker you can still cast in stealth does way more reliable spike damage then lets say Phantasmal Duelist (added super slow bullet mind you hoping you will miss the target to not unstealth, no damage. I mean it should do a daze at least instead of a useless cripple.) Casting Duelist in stealth was the only advantage pistol had which is underused so badly in any game mode which is now made completely obsolete now.) Phantasmal Mage however not as badly trashed as Phantasmal Duelist still outrageous change but at least it has a decent cast modifier of burn application unlike duelist. So if they want to do this little thing with no stealthing you may as well finish the job and get Phantasmal Berserker to the same level. But you know they may not do that as it will kill Power Mesmer lol talk about hypocrisy of their motives.

(edited by LinhZeri.6412)

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Posted by: Takashiro.8701

Takashiro.8701

Are you sure though that the reveal on the summon attacks is intended and not bug? The iDisenchanter summon attack works exactly like the iMage and doesn’t reveal. Never did and still doesn’t.

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Posted by: MailMail.6534

MailMail.6534

At the risk of not being very popular, not being able to cast damaging phantasms while remaining in stealth sounds good to me.

It sounds pretty awesome to me. To balance around WvW roaming is to go down a deep dark rabbit hole with no good results. I remain vociferous in my opinion that the phantasm changes were a net positive, albeit minimal, for overall Mesmer balance.

https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”

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Posted by: tobascodagama.2961

tobascodagama.2961

At the risk of not being very popular, not being able to cast damaging phantasms while remaining in stealth sounds good to me.

Yup, completely agree. You should have to choose between lurking in stealth or using attack spells. You shouldn’t be able to do both.

Amberley Avalen – Charr Mesmer
Tanya Larina – Human Thief
Finchy Whyte – Sylvari Ranger

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Posted by: Kreweless.2196

Kreweless.2196

At the risk of not being very popular, not being able to cast damaging phantasms while remaining in stealth sounds good to me.

Yup, completely agree. You should have to choose between lurking in stealth or using attack spells. You shouldn’t be able to do both.

inb4 QQs about Ghost Thief

I seriously didn’t know there were so many PU roamers out there. I thought everyone played the Helseth build from metabattle, which has zero stealth. #TIL

Orrrrrr, the only people who are vocal on forums are the ones who play crutch builds in WvW. Get outta here with that cheap kitten.