Guild Wars 2

Mesmers have only 2 blocks, one with Scepter and one with off-hand Sword. I don’t see any Mesmers using either of those weapons.

Even after using the Scepter/Sword to great effect in sPvP, I realized it was next to useless in PvE and any situation in which you aren’t taking fire. However, the 2 blocks actually have an alternate-fire ability that lets you shoot beams at enemies instead of blocking.

Problem solved, right? Wrong.

While the alternate-fire abilities provide useful disables, the damage they do at level 80 is a mere 34. The only way this can be viable in PvE is if it’s damage is buffed to be at least 300, if not 600 or more. This holds especially true considering we’re getting a supposedly defensive shield slot, which could make our 2 blocking weapons obsolete.

GideonAI.5341:

Mesmers have a trait specifically buffing blocks. However, we only have 2 blocks, one with Scepter and one with off-hand Sword. I don’t see any Mesmers using either of those weapons.

Even after using the Scepter/Sword to great effect in sPvP, I realized it was next to useless in PvE and any situation in which you aren’t taking fire. However, the 2 blocks actually have an alternate-fire ability that lets you shoot beams at enemies instead of blocking.

Problem solved, right? Wrong.

While the alternate-fire abilities provide useful disables, the damage they do at level 80 is a mere 34. The only way this crap can be viable is if it’s damage is buffed to be at least 300, if not 600 or more. This holds especially true considering we’re getting a supposedly defensive shield slot, which could make our 2 blocking weapons obsolete.

The trait is Retaliatory Shield and it procs off aegis not just scepter 2 and sword 4. Mesmers use the weapons just fine (though you sound like a PvE’r). The real problem is mesmers and retaliation tbh, but that’s by and by.

As for damage, sword 4 is a line daze. This can interrupt that, when traited, will proc additional effects. Halting Strike will deal damage, CI procs imob and chill, we can also boost overall damage with BI. So the Daze isnt necessarily low damage but like all Mesmer toys you have to build/invest in it.

As for scepter 2, the blind is essentially pure damage/hit mitigation. Nothing you can really do about the damage. The cd’s relatively low so that’s a point in its favor. Question is, does it really need damage? Our damage comes from other sources. Making this skill hit harder isn’t really going to do much or anything. The block/riposte though, that hits for a decent bit even with the nerf.

Thanks for the info, I’ve edited the OP to reflect that. However, I still think the weapons themselves shouldn’t be used as the “defensive go-to” when we’re now getting a shield. You’ve convinced me that the sub-abilities are useful in PvP, but I still think they’re worth next to nothing in PvE, a field in which Mesmers could do with more variety.

On thing that is annoying is that the counters aren’t immediate and can apparently be dodged, which is annoying.

I think the blocks are fine.

The real problem is a warrior and ranger use their blocks, and for the entirety of those channels they block all projectiles. We instead activate the block on the first projectile.

The alternate-fire abilities are obviously not meant to be used as damage-skills; Both are “useful” in their own way. You can’t block a Killshot coming from a Warrior using Signet of Might – but you can blind or daze him before he fires it. The Sworddaze lets you interrupt abilities with higher casting times/channels, which might be – depending on the Situation – even better than the block with damage and clone generation. Desperate Mesmer trying to hide with Mass Invis? Ruin his day with a [Counter Blade]. Stability-less foe trying to stomp your ally a second time? [Counter Blade] him! Really bad D/P Thief attemting to create a smoke field? Not with [Counter Blade]. It’s also quite funny to use against Warriors who [Rush] you without stability; or Pew Pew Rangers without RaO. It also synergizes well with ‘Dazzling’ (5 stacks vulnerability on demand) and ‘Halting Strike’.

I Agree that they could use some buffs, but personally i don’t think they need to look at the damage part here. What bothers me right now:

• The Delay between successfull block and countereffect is too high.You can hit the block first, then the Mesmer himself, and still have time to dodge the Countereffect afterwards. A Mace Warrior can mindlessly hit into your Block and simply Daze you afterwards, which negates your Countereffect. Or even more ridiculous – he can counter your Block with his own Blocks. While the delay allows for counterplay (usually something i prefer), it shouldn’t be this much. I would like this ability to get the [Counter Attack] (Ranger Greatsword Block) treatment in this regard.
• Your Character attempts to cast the countereffect regardless of range. Ranger- and Warriorblocks can be used to block ranged attacks continueously, since the blocking character only initiates the counter cast when the attacker is actually in Range. Well, our block’s countereffect has a rather high range (900 units), but it also seems to prompt an attempt at casting it when i’am attacked by 1800-range-longbow rangers from far outside blink-range. Would be nice if our blocks would behave more like the others.
• The ¾s casting time of [Counter Blade] is a bit too much IMO - sure, it is a daze on a relatively low cooldown, but it’s projectile is sluggish as hell and easy to strafe. ¾ seconds make interrupting all but the most time-intensive casts impossible (unless your opponent is very predictable). Would be nice if they reduced it to ½ seconds - that shouldn’t make it too overpowered (i mean, look at [Launch Personal Battering Ram] – 15 seconds (or 11½ with enough traitpoints) cooldown, ¼ seconds casting time, 1 second Daze and a rather big damage multiplier of (1.5) on top of 5 seconds of cripple).

Dondagora.9645:

On thing that is annoying is that the counters aren’t immediate and can apparently be dodged, which is annoying.

Yes. There’s a simple quality of life change that can, and should happen here.

Yes, these skills are effective in PvP and yet, could do with a few quality of life changes. However, I don’t want Mesmers to have any skills that are “just for PvP”. Even our new specialization is supposed to “shake up sPvP”, why can’t PvE Mesmers get a little bit of love?

Even if my suggestion in the OP isn’t the way to go, what is?

GideonAI.5341:

Yes, these skills are effective in PvP and yet, could do with a few quality of life changes. However, I don’t want Mesmers to have any skills that are “just for PvP”. Even our new specialization is supposed to “shake up sPvP”, why can’t PvE Mesmers get a little bit of love?

Even if my suggestion in the OP isn’t the way to go, what is?

Well, if you’re using scepter in PvE, you’ve made a massive mistake, so there’s that.

If you’re using sword offhand in PvE, then you will generally use it to block a big attack so you you don’t have to dodge. Happily though, PvE enemies don’t dodge…so most of the complaints about the block don’t apply.

I fail to see why you think the block isn’t good in PvE. The design is obvious: block an attack, gain a large counterattack. If you choose not to block an attack, you sacrifice the counterattack damage for an additional effect. You don’t get to have everything all at once, that’s not how balance works.

I love me my offhand sword block on lupi ;3.

What I do NOT like is how the counterblade displaces you when you create a clone off the block. That can be really bad in a pve setting.

They just need to buff autoattacks for mesmer/ranger/necro all across the board they’re all pathetic. Ele scepter/water/earth attunement autoattacks also need a buff (hell, all scepter autoattacks in this game except guardian hit for absolute garbage).

Mesmer needs blocks which function like Warrior sword 5 and ranger gs 4, just give retal shield ICD of 5s.

Fay.2357:

Well, if you’re using scepter in PvE, you’ve made a massive mistake, so there’s that.

.

No wonder Devs dont even bother to think about changing stuff. Why should they, if evryone is playing with the same kitten anyway once they figured out/limiting themself in one meta playstyle.

hardloop von edgehoven.8512:

Fay.2357:

Well, if you’re using scepter in PvE, you’ve made a massive mistake, so there’s that.

.

No wonder Devs dont even bother to think about changing stuff. Why should they, if evryone is playing with the same kitten anyway once they figured out/limiting themself in one meta playstyle.

You don’t make any sense. Using scepter in PvE is a massive mistake because scepter is an awful PvE weapon. It’s not the fault of the players that scepter is absolute trash, it’s the fault of the devs. Blaming people for playing with non-trash equipment is simply ludicrous.

As I always say, feel free to use whatever you want, just keep in mind that using scepter in pve means you are bad.

Fay.2357:

hardloop von edgehoven.8512:

Fay.2357:

Well, if you’re using scepter in PvE, you’ve made a massive mistake, so there’s that.

.

No wonder Devs dont even bother to think about changing stuff. Why should they, if evryone is playing with the same kitten anyway once they figured out/limiting themself in one meta playstyle.

You don’t make any sense. Using scepter in PvE is a massive mistake because scepter is an awful PvE weapon. It’s not the fault of the players that scepter is absolute trash, it’s the fault of the devs. Blaming people for playing with non-trash equipment is simply ludicrous.

As I always say, feel free to use whatever you want, just keep in mind that using scepter in pve means you are bad.

I agree with Pyro, Stepping out of the Meta is a good thing, But Using Scepter in PvE is utter garbage.

UNLESS you wanna finish hearts or map completion or LS for x5 more time.

The blocks aren’t optimized for PvP either. The active effect of both skills could get much more love. The casting time of the sword block should be 1/2 a second instead of 3/4 casting time and the active effect of the scepter block should be something useful instead of just a lame blind. Maybe room for a short duration ’’taunt’’ or ’’slow’’? Taunt would actually work so well with scepter due the torment spam on the weapon. You could pretty much force someone to move and deal more damage to the target if he’s standing still.

Fay.2357:

Well, if you’re using scepter in PvE, you’ve made a massive mistake, so there’s that.

I’ve made a huge mistake…

http://youtu.be/RNepDf9hBHU
http://youtu.be/tty1b6xcD7s

frifox.5283:

Fay.2357:

Well, if you’re using scepter in PvE, you’ve made a massive mistake, so there’s that.

I’ve made a huge mistake…

http://youtu.be/RNepDf9hBHU
http://youtu.be/tty1b6xcD7s

Kamisama Hajimemakittena!

Good videos, but I think pyro was more of talking bout the generic hearts pve map completion kinda thing.

PS: Are you running on all high on settings? Nanami is so cute..

Yeah, I’m aware and I agree that scepter is just terrible in pve. I simply enjoy thinking outside the box with my mes.

All settings on max except anti aliasing, post processing, and depth blur. Those are off.

frifox.5283:

Fay.2357:

Well, if you’re using scepter in PvE, you’ve made a massive mistake, so there’s that.

I’ve made a huge mistake…

http://youtu.be/RNepDf9hBHU
http://youtu.be/tty1b6xcD7s

psh, sploits don’t count!

(not that subject alpha is a sploit, he’s just special).

I remember being so excited about a scepter/torch and greatsword build before the game even entered closed beta.

It was that time before Jon Peters even came up with the wonderful idea of splitting power and condition power, dooming certain weapons, especially hybrid ones, into being obsolete.

And you know the part where any class that isn’t a warrior/guardian/thief/ lightning whip ele was given horrendous autoattack damage.

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

hardloop von edgehoven.8512:

Fay.2357:

Well, if you’re using scepter in PvE, you’ve made a massive mistake, so there’s that.

.

No wonder Devs dont even bother to think about changing stuff. Why should they, if evryone is playing with the same kitten anyway once they figured out/limiting themself in one meta playstyle.

You don’t make any sense. Using scepter in PvE is a massive mistake because scepter is an awful PvE weapon. It’s not the fault of the players that scepter is absolute trash, it’s the fault of the devs. Blaming people for playing with non-trash equipment is simply ludicrous.

As I always say, feel free to use whatever you want, just keep in mind that using scepter in pve means you are bad.

I agree with Pyro, Stepping out of the Meta is a good thing, But Using Scepter in PvE is utter garbage.

UNLESS you wanna finish hearts or map completion or LS for x5 more time.

Technically thats correct, but its not very clever to use it as an argument, when it is about making it better. it just disencourages many to not even think about testing the weapon under any cirumstances.

I use Scepter/Off-Hand Sword all the time even in PvE. It’s fine, sure torment does min damage unless you actually move/dodge all the time like I do(unless they are range attackers) but with Retaliatory Shield, Illusion of Vulnerability and Dazzling you can get a good stack of vulnerability and Retal going to met out some good power damage. Despite some mild improvement in Mesmer conditions I still find using the ‘condition’ weapons (Scepter and Staff) with Power more effective(Torch is our only good condition weapon and it is still a bit wanting). Have you tried it with Power stats?

Also the Blocks make clones and a quick hop away with someone(thing) that attacks fast, this is the fastest way to produce clones without wasting util slots.

hardloop von edgehoven.8512:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

hardloop von edgehoven.8512:

Fay.2357:

Well, if you’re using scepter in PvE, you’ve made a massive mistake, so there’s that.

.

No wonder Devs dont even bother to think about changing stuff. Why should they, if evryone is playing with the same kitten anyway once they figured out/limiting themself in one meta playstyle.

You don’t make any sense. Using scepter in PvE is a massive mistake because scepter is an awful PvE weapon. It’s not the fault of the players that scepter is absolute trash, it’s the fault of the devs. Blaming people for playing with non-trash equipment is simply ludicrous.

As I always say, feel free to use whatever you want, just keep in mind that using scepter in pve means you are bad.

I agree with Pyro, Stepping out of the Meta is a good thing, But Using Scepter in PvE is utter garbage.

UNLESS you wanna finish hearts or map completion or LS for x5 more time.

Technically thats correct, but its not very clever to use it as an argument, when it is about making it better. it just disencourages many to not even think about testing the weapon under any cirumstances.

I’m not trying to be clever in my argument, I’m trying to be accurate. There’s no reason to use the scepter when literally every other option is better in 99% of cases. Why use a bad weapon when you could use a good one?

Dracatis.1908:

I use Scepter/Off-Hand Sword all the time even in PvE. It’s fine, sure torment does min damage unless you actually move/dodge all the time like I do(unless they are range attackers) but with Retaliatory Shield, Illusion of Vulnerability and Dazzling you can get a good stack of vulnerability and Retal going to met out some good power damage. Despite some mild improvement in Mesmer conditions I still find using the ‘condition’ weapons (Scepter and Staff) with Power more effective(Torch is our only good condition weapon and it is still a bit wanting). Have you tried it with Power stats?

Also the Blocks make clones and a quick hop away with someone(thing) that attacks fast, this is the fastest way to produce clones without wasting util slots.

Well, a couple things.

First, retaliation is awful in PvE. The damage it returns is negligible, isn’t scaled by anything other than how much power you have, and requires you to eat hits in PvE. All bad stuff.

Secondly, yeah scepter does okish power damage. It does higher damage than greatsword if you’re at less than 600 range iirc (frifox has precise numbers on this I’m sure). However, if you’re less than 600 range…you may as well use sword instead. Confusing images does decent damage, but is really slow, the autoattack does okish damage…but is really slow, and the block does pretty poor power damage now that it does torment instead.

Overall…it’s just not worth it. Use sword instead.

More importantly in a pve environment cleave is of great value and why you want a greatsword+offhand focus phantasm because those are the only phantasms that cleave. Scepter auto doesn’t cleave, scepter auto does not give might or put vulnerability, and scepter does not have a useful boon strip like mind stab, which is really neat in Urban fractal to take those 25 stacks of might off mobs or to soften up dredge when null field is on cd.

Scepter and torch are just terrible pve weapons, and so is the staff for that matter (staff is easily the weakest condition weapon for all condi specs ingame, since it has a huge ramp up to condition application whereas an engineer or necromancer or ranger can frontload a variety of conditions right off the bat).

Mesmer really got screwed, a lot of his weapon are like the ranger mainhand axe and shortbow, which are weapons with hybrid functions (staff gets a huge penalty of not only random condi application and useless vulnerability which doesn’t affect condition damage, but because it applies pitiful duration boons randomly it is also heavily penalized damagewise) so they get terrible coefficients for power on most of their skills.

The only class with functional hybrid weapons is warrior because his mainhand sword and longbow have really high baseline damage numbers on the power skills so even on a condi spec, your sword skill #3 is hitting for respectable amounts of damage. Same for longbow, your #3 still hits kitten a condi spec.

The problem I mostly see with mes blocks (atleast illusionary riposte since I rarely use scepter and would never rely on boon based blocks) is how vulnerable it leaves you…

I personally believe the attack should not only come out faster but if it’s not going to it should interupt between the block and hit.

Also as for sword 4 the daze should be more reliable. The idea of a line interupt sounds cool but it should just seek a single target and travel faster. OR be a wider cone with less range that is instant. It would be a little strong as a low c/d interupt but if you give up a block and you need to be pretty close to a target I think it would be fair.

The blocks definitely feel lackluster overall. Between their slow activation, and the mediocre second activation (like the line interrupt on sword). They mostly need to feel more responsive and reliable.