Guild Wars 2

One of the long-standing oddities of the mesmer class is that the three core mechanics – shattering, illusions, and phantasms – are conflicting in practice. If you have a strong roster of phantasms up you’re disincentivized from using your shatter skills, and high-end PvE builds often direct you to avoid illusion/clone skills and shattering as much as possible. It doesn’t make sense to punish players for using a core class mechanic.

What if phantasms were exempt from the 3-slot/shatter mechanic? This would mesmers full use of their shatter damage/utility, smooth out sustained and PvP damage, and make the class more intuitive. If 3+ phantasms prove too strong we could limit their duration (making them more like GW1 hexes), tweak their damage, or cap their number. Skill would shift to properly using shatter timings, limited “bodies”, and phantasmal positioning.

What do you think, fellow Mesmers?

HappyHubris.1096:

What do you think, fellow Mesmers?

You must be new, it really doesnt matter how we think, it only matters how Anet thinks.

I don’t feel like it’s a problem.

I actually like that I have to trade something off for something else.
I also like that, now, we have chronophantasma. Which makes the trade off a bit less than it was before, should you take it.

My personal feeling is that the biggest problem with the phantasm skills is summoning a phantasm is all some of them do.

Pistol 4, Sword 5.

It would be nice if pistol 4 at least did some kind of rapid fire attack with your character.

And, I swear by this.
If you changed nothing else on sword, except added a leaping attack for my character to sword 5, I would never unequip offhand sword.

EVER.

kitten greatsword, kitten scepter.

All I’ll run is pure Sword/Sword and make it work.

It wouldn’t be a buff, it would be a nerf.
Phantasm barely survive long enough as is. If for some reason they do survive long enough to get 2 or more out, now you just neutered your shatter damage/confusion. Because you have less spots for clones.

(Or do you plan on allowing Mesmer to generate Max 3 clones AND as many phantasm he can spawn?) – which will never happen.

You’d have to reduce the cool downs on all the clone generating skills to make up for the damage loss. And improve others so that you could more reliable generate clones. (i.e. Scepter block) . And if you do that, then ANet would probably nerf those skills accordingly. GS-Mirror Blade Might application reduced or ICD added, for example.

SlimChance.6593:

(Or do you plan on allowing Mesmer to generate Max 3 clones AND as many phantasm he can spawn?) – which will never happen.

This. Your 3-minion limit would apply to clones only. Phantasms could be timered (or even short-duration invulnerable minions that can be dodged but not destroyed?) to prevent infinite stacking.

It would require a complete overhaul of the mechanics. In theory I agree it would probably be better to have something like 1 Phantasm slot, and 3 Clone slots. Then re-balance the Phants around that in damage output, attack rate, CD, and sustain.

In fact Phantasms should probably be invulnerable, but only live as long as the target they are summoned on as is already the case. That way they are a dependable source of damage for all build types, with unique “pet” mechanics that fits the Mesmer profession. Clones would be entirely about obfuscation for “defense”, and shatters for offense. They should do little to no damage, no utility, and no CC/conditions. (At most some bleeds, Vulnerability….only weak stuff.)

Then it’s much easier to balance around these restrictions.

None of that will happen at this point though…too much work.

We should be able to keep multiple phantasms up to allow for full usage of our weapons. If anything, it seems like the “slot” system shouldn’t apply to them, as they’d no longer be a shatter input. It would be more intuitive to just give phantasms a duration limit. We do need a soft cap on Phantasm numbers, or else 50 duelists per Mesmer would wreck both frame rates and bosses handily.

I’m uncertain on making phantasms invulnerable. It would be a handy PvP buff and bring the class closer to GW1’s hexes, but they would no longer tank AI damage.

If they made illusions count towards the 3 slot things and phantasms not, then I’d think that phantasms wouldn’t count toward Signet of Illusions , Signet of the Ether , Empowered Illusions (important one for phantasms’ damage) , Illusionary Reversion , Sharper Images , Seize the Moment, Illusionary Defense or Illusionist’s Celerity (illusion/phantasm recharge).

In that case, Persistence of Memory would need to be buffed.

Right now Gyros & minions act similarly to Phantasms.

HappyHubris.1096:

SlimChance.6593:

(Or do you plan on allowing Mesmer to generate Max 3 clones AND as many phantasm he can spawn?) – which will never happen.

This. Your 3-minion limit would apply to clones only. Phantasms could be timered (or even short-duration invulnerable minions that can be dodged but not destroyed?) to prevent infinite stacking.

They could have a phantasm limit and balance around that. Maybe one per phantasm type (i.e. you can have a berserker + a warden , swordsman , or duelist , plus a defender and disenchanter but not 3+ warlocks).

I feel Shatters aren’t that strong sustained damage unless you’re using scepter. If you’re using scepter you’re likely running conditions or hybrid which means you have a 25 cooldown on Cry of Frustration. (less with Master of Misdirection but still not as low as Mind Wrack’s 12 cooldown) You have a 5 second+ cooldown on clones (Mirror Blade ; Illusionary Leap ; Phase Retreat) if you use any other weapon and not using deceptive evasion (about once every 7 seconds if you have vigor) and/or illusionary reversion to generate more clones. I don’t think Mirror Images is strong enough cooldown wise to warrant over Decoy.